Comments for Troops Backing McCain 68% to 23% »
Posted By Wolfie2007 1 year, 1 month ago in Political NewsSen. John McCain enjoys overwhelming support from the military' s professional core, though race appears to be a decisive factor for career-oriented black service members, a Military Times survey of nearly 4,300 readers indicates.
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Wolfie20071 year, 1 month ago
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FTA
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McCain, R-Ariz., handily defeated Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., 68 percent to 23 percent in a voluntary survey of 4,293 active-duty, National Guard and reserve subscribers and former subscribers to Army Times, Navy Times, Marine Corps Times and Air Force Times.-
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Karlyc1 year, 1 month ago
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hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned18 Replies
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Ratskii1 year, 1 month ago
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FTA: The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services.
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Nuff said. -
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lfergie8121 year, 1 month ago
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Karlyc
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Here's an obvious from soldiers in Iraq.
"Most of my friends are conservative Republicans and they say, 'I'm voting for Barack.' McCain does not have a lock on the military vote, that's for sure," he said. "We'll complete our duty -- I'm deploying next year -- because it's a commitment I made to the nation, not to a president. But we all know that Iraq was a big mistake."
These are things they cannot tell their commanding officers because of possible repercussions.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/troops-dep... -
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Leemck021 year, 1 month ago
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Hamy, you said a lot that is practical. Seen in 'W''s popularity, he has managed to shake enough people to rethink their loyalties. The military is very traditional streak. Think about the Confederate Army. You still have some of that conservative linage bound to serve. A family member that reaches General or Admiral has a lot of influence, generationally. I can assure you a John McCain had a different experience than those without that cushion. Now, the Viet Cong did not share the birthright of the Navy's elite Fly Boys. He was unfortunate in that way, but Senator, Budweiser Heiress betrothal and the kick of running for president isn't a bad payoff. That's a hero's welcome that the average dog face, grunt, squid or girl scout won't see. They know to vote for health care, quality of life and their children's education. Military places a high value on character, that includes truth; the conservative distortion of the Republican Party has occurred to many that this is not temporary. "W" and on down the chain are just users. Military people are feeling the C-in-C's devotion to their family's the health care, family separation and tactical wisdom. This is no joke or politics to them. I can assure you the success we had in the wars and everyday keeping the service going is the pure dedication of the guy or gal making it happen at the E-3 to E-7 and an occasional O-3 or O-4 level. These votes will be real no matter which it goes. Straight talk or not, these folk will see if McCain or 'Palin' is fit for the job of leading their services. They know if McCain don't drop off the line Palin will be positioned for the next run. They know to vote for change.
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spkguy1 year, 1 month ago
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Why retired Generals and Admirals support Barack Obama
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdN8XpL36Pk-
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Excellent spkguy.
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Thanks for this link.
redtomato (aka AlphaGnosis) is trying to pull a fast one.
You know how this member is a Rush Limbaugh wanna-be. Like Rush ... this member will twist reality every which way but Sunday for the purpose of promoting this the Neo-Con agenda of Military Expansionism and Trickle Down Economics.
These people think that the troops automatically support Republicans ... but as the past eight years have shown ... the Republicans DO NOT support the troops.
They have disrespected the troops .... LIED to our soldiers .... and have shown that their desperate allegiance to the Neo-Con ideology has blinded them to rational leadership ... including effective leadership of our military.
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year, 1 month ago
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the 'current speculation' is a split persona, one who submits and one who comments....which kinda makes sense because AG got banned for submissions, I believe
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I agree that tomato is AG because styles don't lie. and it's the same style and sense of humor. I noticed that AG was LMP because AG used 'Hello McFly!' the same as LMP
we are who we are-we can pretend awhile and fly under the radar, but the true self shines thru
PS: I was not for banning AG and I'm not for squashing tomatoes either
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gamahuche1 year, 1 month ago
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Very trusting thinking R!
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On a previous thread, posted by Klarissa, the first comment came from this singularly confident and know-the-ropes fruit/vegetable, who continued to run the thread throughout. Klarissa, I believe made no appearance whatsoever.
She/it [RT]had already aroused my hackles on another thread before I had any idea that it was a sock-puppet for this particular individual. I suggest checking the posts from the profile and you'd be hard put to believe that this is someone who is new around here.
Very unsurprising that people on the military should REPORT their INTENTION to vote REP.
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However, also FTA
McCain’s majority wanes among women and disappears altogether among black respondents.
Nearly eight out of 10 black service members indicated they intend to vote for Obama despite his lack of military service and despite McCain’s record as a naval aviator and prisoner of war in Vietnam.
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jovial1 year, 1 month ago
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"The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services."
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Well said , jovial.
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Thank you for showing up.
redtomato ... aka (AlphaGnosis) is trying to pull a fast one and in so doing ..... is disrespecting the wishes of our troops overseas.
I believe this is un-patriotic and downright anti-American.
But of course, I've always known that this particular member was more concerned with promoting an extremist agenda at all costs ... even using lies and smear in the process.
So thanks.
America is a great nation who ... due to Agents of Division such as redtomato, (AlphaGnosis), Wolfie, and FSU .... we've lost our way .... lost our Moral Center.
That's why I'm rooting for Obama .... because we have GOT to stop the slide of the past 8 years.
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PatrioticAmerican1 year, 1 month ago
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Goppy you are not interested in Stopping anything But Bush, You would vote for a dog if it was the only choice between the dog and a repub. you are not interested in facts or who is best for the job you just dont want bush in the white house again, but i have a news flash for you, BUSH isnt running again, so the only thing you should be worried about stopping is the not born in america, unpatriotic, muslim trained, terrorist supporter, and welfare funding BARRY HUSSIEN OSAMA from getting into the white house
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MRCOFFEECAKE1 year, 1 month ago
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Sarah Palin is a female George Bush (pretty boy/girl) with no ability to form a coherent sentence and the brains of a hockey mom...
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(who drinks a 6 pack at or after the game)
Great world leader..We are being treated like fools and you bought it again!
World leader???
You can't be serious...
McCain as our next leader??
Look at him speak..They are complete jackasses.
Take an honest look for once.
Four years of the two stooges????
America, thanks yo you and your apologist shilling has become a mess.
You've done enough damage..You gave us Bush.
Don't try to unwrap another rotten election day president and make us think it's a winner..OK?
Learn about why you caused so much damage and step back from it.
As usual, you speak of personal assaults and fear to try to get people to believe ridiculous accusations..Bush would be proud of your ignorant tactics.
Don't cause more damage..You've done enough, thank you!
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Dionys1 year, 1 month ago
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And of course we all know the Air Force Times is an incredibly independent source of news.
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Interesting how they generally only let troops watch FOX in-country, isn't it? Perhaps publishing this will make more military troops think this is reality and sway their vote to McInsane.-
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antibrainwasher1 year, 1 month ago
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Anything but the murder of 5000 americans for a lie invented by neocon republicans, and the destruction of the world economy by reaganomic republican ignorance and unregulated greed.
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Any topic at all, don't mind the sinking burning ship, and the republican rats that started the fire, lets talk about the professional republican warmongers and their no bid millions in contracts to use the mostly dem soldiers as cannon fodder to protect the oil cartels owned by chickenhawk republicoward scum.
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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donald511 year, 1 month ago
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It says its a "voluntary" survey Wolfie, so you don't get soldiers coming forward to go against their repug chain of command! There is a reason why Faux Fox News is mandated in all too many military dayrooms and hospital lounges. These guys are fed the Bush lies on TV and by their chain of command all day - I heard it for over 24 years, the lies that the repugs will take care of you and the dems won't!
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Another reason, the Air Force times cators to the military industrial complex attitude and cues to the same right wing, bigot pilots who tubed Kerry in the swift Boat commercails, the ones that kill from afar and go back to have a cold beer and laugh about how many people they may or may not have killed that day, collateral damage be damned!
Remember Air Force General Myers as Head of the joint chiefs telling the military he would tolerate no dissent to the decision to do torture? See how Dumya has polluted our military like the Department of Justice! -
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ISITJUSTME1 year, 1 month ago
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The headline is not reflective of the facts stated in the article.
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The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services.
If it is not representative of the whole, then why print this crap. Okay, I got something you can print. The Smiths support McCain 70 to 30% but we don't count the grandparents or grandchildren; nieces and nephews either because it will tilt it in Obama's favor.
This is absolute madness. When will it end? Nov. 4th.-
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ProudBlueTexan1 year, 1 month ago
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That is Wolfie's distortion of the headline. The AF headline reads:
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"Military Times poll: Troops backing McCain"
...which would imply to any republican that ALL troops are backing mccain. The rest of the world knows better, so we'll let it go at that....
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amervtrn1 year, 1 month ago
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People who have served their country and lived through the Leftist party disasters of the past know how dangerous and counterproductive it is to have an inexperienced coward at the helm.This is supposed to be an election for president not PR rock star. You are hiring the CEO of Firm USA. Who do you want to run the firm, a manager with over 25 years experience or the newly hired stockboy?
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If you complain about Palin's experience to be VP candidate where does that leave Obama? She has more real experience than he has. Or is Obama really running as Biden's VP?
My fellow Americans, you have just witnessed the end of the USA and the constitution if this is allowed to go unchallenged. Our so called Representatives have, against expressed desires of those they swore to represent, blatantly sold us and our children into slavery. The SCAM BAILOUT bill will not cure the problem. It will compound it. There are three things to do. Mount a Constitutional challenge, vote each who is up for reelection and voted yes out of office, and start recalls on those who are not up for reelection this election. Save THE USA while we still have the time. To say I am throughly disappointed and discussed, is an under statement. The true feeling is much like the feelings I have had putting fallen comrades in body bags. Those who voted for this, PORK BARREL SCAM BAILOUT, have put The USA and The Constitution in a body bag.
Do you wonder why the DOW went down after the vote for the SCAM BAILOUT? Because it marked the end of free representative America! Communism is bad for business !-
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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It is not communism we have to fear, but rather fascism. And it is here already.
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Interview - Naomi Wolf - Give Me Liberty
Interview with Naomi Wolf author of Give Me Liberty: A Handbook for American Revolutionaries given October 4, 2008 on Mind Over Matters, KEXP 90.3 FM Seattle.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/10/06/intervie...-
ProudBlueTexanComment removed: Spam
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Well Wolfie, the "selected" group polled are those that profit from the enormous corruption in the Pentagon and the "iron triangle". Sad to see that our military leadership has become so corrupt.
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The Pentagon Bailout Fraud
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/09/29/the-pent...
... In other words, sometime in 2009 the direct costs of the war the Bush administration once predicted would cost perhaps $50-60 billion in total will stand at more than $800 billion, or $100 billion above the cost (if all goes well, which it won't) of the bailout of the financial system now being proposed in Washington.
Estimates of the true long-term costs of the President's war of choice, including payments of health care and veterans benefits into the distant future, soar into the budgetary stratosphere. They range from the Congressional Budget Office's $1-2 trillion to an estimate by economists Joseph Stiglitz and Linda J. Bilmes of up to $4-5 trillion. So we're talking somewhere between one-and-a-half and seven bailouts-worth of taxpayer dollars flowing into the morass of disaster, corruption, and carnage in Iraq.
There has been much moaning, air-sucking, and outrage about the $700 billion that the U.S. government is thinking of throwing away on rich New York bankers who have been ripping us off for the past few years and then letting greed drive their businesses into a variety of ditches. In fact, we dole out similar amounts of money every year in the form of payoffs to the armed services, the military-industrial complex, and powerful senators and representatives allied with the Pentagon.-
hyperbolaComment removed: Spam
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Wolfie20071 year, 1 month ago
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The liberal democrats will try with everything they've got to keep these votes from counting, too. Ballots sent from democrat controlled states won't arrive on time or they will say the ballots weren't returned on time. They'll do whatever it takes to cheat the men and women in the armed forces to keep their votes from counting. It's just part of the job description for liberal democrats.
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nostalgia1 year, 1 month ago
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That is what happened in 2000 in FL
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Did you ever read the ruling from the U.S. District Judge Lacey Collier
"It is truly an unfortunate circumstance when a citizen of the United States is denied the fundamental right to vote, whether residing in one of the several states or residing overseas," Collier wrote in his ruling. "It is even more unfortunate when a vote cast by a member of the armed forces serving abroad is rejected for no legitimate or compelling reason."
"It is unfortunate that Florida will accept an overseas absentee ballot with an unsworn, handwritten date, yet questions the oath, under penalty of perjury, of many of its service men and women," Collier said.
And don't forget - many of the troops were angry when Obama scrapped
his visit to a military hospital in Germany-
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lfergie8121 year, 1 month ago
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"This is the stuff that NEVER makes it to mainstream media..."
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For good reason. They have to report the truth.
Here's something else that doesn't get to the mainstream media but for a different reason. GW would like it.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/troops-dep...
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Not really nostalgia. What happened in Florida in 2000 is that hundreds of thousands of votes were NEVER COUNTED. Now you have been told this before nostalgia, so why do you keep lying to Americans?
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From Research in Review Magazine, Florida State University, Fall/Winter 2005:
Al Gore really did beat George W. Bush in 2000.
... It’s an embarrassing outcome for George Bush because it showed that Gore had gotten more votes. Everybody had thought that the chads were where all the bad ballots were, but it turned out that the ones that were the most decisive were write-in ballots where people would check Gore and write Gore in, and the machine kicked those out. There were 175,000 votes overall that were so-called “spoiled ballots.” About two-thirds of the spoiled ballots were over-votes; many or most of them would have been write-in over-votes, where people had punched and written in a candidate’s name. And nobody looked at this, not even the Florida Supreme Court in the last decision it made requiring a statewide recount. Nobody had thought about it except Judge Terry Lewis, who was overseeing the statewide recount when it was halted by the U.S. Supreme Court. The write-in over-votes have really not gotten much attention. Those votes are not ambiguous. When you see Gore picked and then Gore written in, there’s not a question in your mind who this person was voting for. When you go through those, they’re unambiguous: Bush got some of those votes, but they were overwhelmingly for Gore. For example, in an analysis of the 2.7 million votes that had been cast in Florida’s eight largest counties, The Washington Post found that Gore’s name was punched on 46,000 of the over-vote ballots it, while Bush’s name was marked on only 17,000....
http://www.rinr.fsu.edu/winter2005/features/battle...
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redtomatoComment removed: Spammer12 Replies
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DropkickaLib1 year, 1 month ago
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Not just claim nostalgia.
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Repeat the truth.
Check it out.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2008/08/troops-dep...
The troops support Obama over McCain 6 to 1.
Heck, our troops even support Ron Paul over McCain!
Get it?
NOBODY cares about Johnny Shapeshifter. Patriots have observed that we simply cannot afford Welfare for the Wealthy and Erratic Foreign Policy any longer.
Only embittered, cynical, American Government Hating people prefer McCain.
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cloud151 year, 1 month ago
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Goppy you can't give us the amount donated and then say that means for every 1 troop who supports McCain, 6 support Obama. Some troops don't have the money, some troops just don't care, others are too busy with other things, etc. There are plenty of reasons why someone may not send money to their candidate, but that doesn't me they won't vote for them.
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For someone who likes to call out liars, you just tried to pull a fast one.-
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lfergie8121 year, 1 month ago
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Did you read the article? Of course not or you wouldn't have made a dumb comment like that.
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Recipient Total Number
Obama, Barack $60,642 134
Paul, Ron $45,512 99
McCain, John $10,665 26
Huckabee, Mike $7,950 10
Thompson, Fred $6,350 7
Romney, Mitt $5,550 10
Clinton, Hillary $3,240 6-
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Perhaps you don't understand how POLLING works.
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When Polls are taken, they select a very small number of people and project support amongst the general population.
For an entire county, a poll may interview a mere 1,000 people.
If you look at this monetary support of 6 to 1 ... one could extrapolate there is tremendous support for Obama.
I mean ... face it ... there are surely more numbers represented here than 1.000.
OK?
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Cloudy, Cloudy, Cloudy ... The fastest spinner is you, yourself Cloudy.
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I make no '1' to '1' claim. That is YOU doing the common Right Wing Trick of INVENTING intent ... just to be able to argue with your own invented intent.
But for you to minimize the drastic difference in political donations from our troops ... measured in REAL DOLLARS .... and SUPPORT ONE SINGLE poll from Air Force Times ... as if it should represent ALL service men and women ... well ... not only is that disingenuous ... it's an affront to our soldiers on the ground in Iraq.
You sir ... should show our troops in harms' way much more respect than that.
They deserve more than spin sir.
And if you respect the troops as I do ... you will vote for the candidate they are pulling for ... the candidate they are sacrificing their hard earned incomes for ... Barack Obama.
I will thank you to show them that honor and not minimize their wishes.-
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cloud151 year, 1 month ago
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"I make no '1' to '1' claim. "
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"The troops support Obama over McCain 6 to 1."
Am I misreading one of these two comments?
I never said this poll is accurate. But nice try at "INVENTING intent ... just to be able to argue with your own invented intent."
According to hefaa's story above the 60,000 was donated by 134 of our people overseas. I think we can both agree that 134 doesn't mean the entire armed forces.
I respect our troops Goppy. I respect that many of them voluntarily, many involuntarily, pay the ultimate price to protect us so we can argue like children on sites like this. I respect them because they have the courage and bravery to do what millions of us at home can't. I respect them enough to realize that neither McCain nor Obama really give a sh*t about the troops. They care about getting elected and nothing else.-
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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tsk tsk OmegaTomato ...
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You've already been busted on this thread OmegaTomato.
You can't seem to support a story that doesn't blow up in your face.
You misrepresented yourself on this thread ... as has been pointed out by several members.
Let's agree ... you don't care about our troops.
Republicans don't care about our troops.
That's why Rumsfeld sent them into battle without the proper materiel.
That''s why Republicans voted to cut in half - funding for Head Trauma Centers for our soldiers.
That's why Bush vetoed a Democratic initiative - a bonus for Iraq soldiers.
That's why Johnny Shapeshifter voted against expansion for the GI Bill.
That's why GW proposed the SMALLEST cost of living increase for our soldiers in nearly 20 years ... at a time when he's asking more sacrifices from them.
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Cloud and Omega ...
Six to One ... if this were a poll ... it would be more reliable than a Gallup poll because it is a larger number than polls normally acquire.
You know this is true ... but you are dedicated to twisting everything to promote your ideology of keeping the troops underpaid ... while paying soldiers of the Right Wing's Private Army ... Blackwater ... over $150,000 a year.
What Moral Vacancy.
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cloud151 year, 1 month ago
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But hey Goppy, it may come off as making up intent for the sake of arguing but that's why I come here. The majority of this site leans democratic, and I enjoy discussing and arguing about politics, its fun. Its also the idea that lies at the heart of our democracy, the idea of open debate, disagreement and a marketplace of ideas. I could just as easily go to a heavily biased right wing forum, but that would be no fun now would it. : )
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cloud151 year, 1 month ago
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Actually I take that back, a heavily biased right wing forum would be just the same to me. I feel sometimes I come off as right wing on here but in actuality I don't consider myself right wing. I think its just that since the majority here is left, I often find myself defending the minority. But both sides have their problems.
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Ratskii1 year, 1 month ago
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Goppy, I've developed some respect for Cloud. I've seen him come out asking for honesty from the other side too. I have no idea whether a majority of our troops support Obama, McCain or Ron Paul. There simply isn't sufficient evidence one way or the other, at least not that I've seen.
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FTA: The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services.
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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No problem there ... when votes came in from overseas in the 2000 election ... many did not pass the minimum requirements.
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But the RNC had pre-positioned their bevy of lawyers to intimidate precinct reps into allowing them to be counted.
See, in 2000, it's true ... more troops DID vote for George W. Bush. They thought ... 'hey ... he's one of us.'
But after 8 years ... our troops have felt the sharp sting of betrayal from this administration.
Our troops have not forgotten that just recently, John McCain fought against every initiative for our troops ... most notably ... an expansion of the G. I. BILL. ... ... ... ... ... the benefits therein the Republicans have been whittling awat for 40 years now.
Our troops know who supports them.
If you support our troops, support who they want to become President ... Barack Obama!
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cleare1 year, 1 month ago
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why "Of course...", saraturner??? you think they like getting shot at, or blown up by ied's in 120 degree heat??? especially after there were no wmd??? no victory parades with flowers thrown by grateful mobs??? that many are there on their 2nd, 3rd & 4th deployments and still don't have a strategic goal for victory???
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yeah sure they'll vote for more of mcsame.
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Wolfie20071 year, 1 month ago
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FTA
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But as a snapshot of careerists, the results suggest Democrats have gained little ground in their attempts to appeal to a traditionally Republican voting bloc in campaign messages and legislative initiatives, such as the recent expansion of GI Bill benefits, experts said.-
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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The GI Bill has been one of the most effective Government Programs of this century.
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In spite of this ... Republicans ... citing cost ... have persisted in cutting, gouging, limiting, and otherwise short changing succeeding generations of soldiers from the benefits of this program.
Republicans even voted against a Democratic proposal to expand educational programs for returning Iraq vets ... especially critical because the overlong deployments from the Bush Stop Loss program .... were causing many vets to lose their jobs.
But Republicans are very, VERY thrifty when it comes to our troops.
They let Walter Reed deteriorate, they let soldiers housing deteriorate throughout the nation, and they send soldiers into battle without appropriate materiel.
So do Republicans thrift extend to ALL aspects of the military?
NO.
Republicans LOVE to spend money on their own PRIVATE ARMY ... the BlackWater Army.
BlackWater Soldiers make as much as $150,000 a year (some make even more) ... while the AMERICAN soldier is lucky to make $25,000. Are Republicans outraged by this? Do they mind THIS cost? NOPE!
It's no wonder our troops support ANYONE but a Republican this election cycle.
If you support our troops ... vote for the candidate they support .... Barack Obama.
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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For soldiers on the front lines ... making $25,000 a year ... it's a big deal to them.
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But of course, I realize supporters of the Morally Vacant Neo-Conservative Ideology are all too eager to minimize the sacrifices our soldiers are making.
Let's see, revised Christianity to support War, Bigotry, and Keeping Kids from getting Health Care.
Promote a patently Immoral Economic Policy of Welfare for the Wealthy.
Minimizing our Soldiers sacrifices.
Is there NOTHING that you wouldn't do to promote your hatred of Obama, Klarissa?
I'm sorry, but you have really sold your Soul when you hooked your wagon to AlphaGnosis's Fear & Smear Campaign.
But I know you are a good person.
When you are ready to come into the Light ... I will be here to greet you!
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NoWayMan1 year, 1 month ago
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in the piece, scroll down, then click on "methodology" for this survey and you'll see that over half of the participants are RETIRED.
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meanwhile, according to many sources (one being Rupert Murdoch's NY Post) Obama has a 6-to-1 edge in donations from ACTIVE military stationed abroad, including in Iraq.
so, while McCain has the backing of the retired soldiers, Obama has the backing of the soldiers who are actually doing the fighting right now.-
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NoWayManComment removed: Spam
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NoWayMan1 year, 1 month ago
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well, since this story came out less than two months ago, your claim of it being debunked "months ago" is more than a bit suspect.
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google " troops obama 6-to-1" and see how many hits pop up.
the stories in USA Today and The NY Post have actual figures included in each piece. and both were written in mid-august of this year, less than two months ago.
I included the links but got spam blocked. So you'll have to do the leg work yourself.
then google "troops obama 6-to-1 debunked" and see how nothing comes up. -
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Oh really abntv?
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Is it just one more example of Liberal Bias in Media?
LOL!!!
I miss the days when Republicans didn't have to lie and to establish their agenda.
But anymore ... it's ALL they do.
I guess, when you have a Morally Vacant Ideology that sees warfare as just another Product of the Economy ... and Health Care for Children is 'bad' ... the only tack that works is lying.
All I can say is ... if you support our troops ... support the candidate THEY support ... if you want to disrespect our troops ... vote McCain.
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smithichie1 year, 1 month ago
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FTA-"The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services".
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Not much of a surprise that Korean War Vets aren't voting for Obama. -
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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I understand that ... Military Contractors especially want McCain ... after all ... while McCain has been dutiful in voting AGAINST the GI Bill ... or ANY increase in benefits for our troops and vets ... Johnny has been very busy supporting Military Contractors.
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Many ex-military now work for these Military Contractors.
These Military Contractors don't care about America ... they only care about profits.
To them ... warfare is simply one more product of the economy. That's why they supported Bush and that's why they support McCain.
They ESPECIALLY love McCain because of his stance that he is willing to stay in Iraq even for 100 years!
These Military Contractors and ex-military who work for the contractors hear these comments and say ... "McCain's the guy ... McCain means JOB SECURITY!"
But to the SOLDIER ... and to the VETERAN .... especially our WOUNDED veterans ... men and women who have been neglected in our hospitals which have been incompetently run ... to the SOLDIER ... Obama is the guy.
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donald511 year, 1 month ago
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GLee. why is your head up dumya's arse?
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They don't want a guy who can't tell suni from Shia, the iranian versus afghan border, strategy versus tactics, who lost 5 planes, who gaduated in the bottom of his academy class and who has made a travesty of the honor code he had as a cadet and an officer!
A man who caved on his own Anti-Torure Bill and wouldn't support the Webb GI Bill! Then threatens two more wars (iran and Russia)!
The surge is a success when politcal gains are made is what Petraeus said! Dumya got neither his long term base aggreeement or his long term oil deals! Iraq can be a Shia'a theocracy like Iran in a heartbeat too! Security without political gain is failure! McCain blew this one too!
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Republicrat1844Comment removed: Retracted by user7 Replies
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Grrr1 year, 1 month ago
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First, it's not 'troops'. There's lot's more I could find fault with in this attempt to spin info as only a mindless shill can, but they always slip somewhere and let some real information get through...Huh. The article says the same poll in 2004 netted Kerry only 16%. So we're gaining ground even among officers that are willing to respond to a voluntary survey conducted by a military publication? Wow.
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I don't think you're making the case you thought you were, Wolfie. Not with this data, anyway. -
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donald511 year, 1 month ago
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Cite where you got your lie about Barack cutting the military - you are a liar! He does want to cut the cost overuns that Dumya has allowed with his sole source, unaudited contracts against government procurement policy! The war profiteeering condoned by Repugs must stop - too many sweat deals to Cheney's crony friends!
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Soldiers respect McBush for his being a PW, but not his using his former PW status as the foremost rationale for why he should be president! Then his absolute poor judgement to chose Palin!
Rummy was going to cut two active duty Army divisions before 911. Dumya cut the Palladin and Commanche helicopter too and still hasn't plused up the military from his 2004 promise. Even Kerry said he'd plus-up the special forces when he ran! ALL FACTS that you can goggle!
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Tcaros1 year, 1 month ago
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Read the second paragraph:
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"The results of the Military Times 2008 Election Poll are not representative of the opinions of the military as a whole. The group surveyed is older, more senior in rank and less ethnically diverse than the overall armed services."
This means NOT the military as a whole, but just the subscribers to the "military times" who completed the survey.
Nice try, but your smoked out. -
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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I'd like to address a comment proffered by Cloud above.
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Cloud claims that our troop's support for Obama ... represented by the 6 to 1 ratio of monetary donations in favor of Obama ... is not unlike a poll.
Only in this case, the poll is clearer ... and more reliable.
For instance, when Polls are taken, they select a very small number of people and project support amongst the general population. This is STANDARD practice.
For an entire County, a poll may interview a mere 1,000 people.
I feel pretty confident that more than 1,000 soldiers donated to Obama's campaign. So ... if you look at this monetary support of 6 to 1 ... one could extrapolate there is very strong support for Obama.
Will 6 soldiers vote for Obama to every 1 for McCain? I don't know ... but you cannot deny the numbers ... you cannot deny the commitment of our soldiers to support Obama.
Again I remind you ... our soldiers do NOT make a big salary. So many of them must feel VERY STRONG in their support for Obama.
So once again, I say ... if you support our troops ... shouldn't you be supporting the candidate for president that THEY support?
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lovemylibs1 year, 1 month ago
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I've never seen so much mental masturbation of statistics as this.
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All of my liberal brethren made great efforts a few months ago to ejaculate headlines to the effect of: "Troops Support Obama 6 to 1 over McCain."
In deference to Paul Harvey, here is the rest of the story.
This 6 to 1 figure is accurate when you consider the caveats of the data.
Caveat # 1 - These figures represent active, overseas military who made contributions of over $200.
Caveat # 2 - Donations of these type for Obama = 134 donations.
Caveat # 3 - Donations of these type for McCain = 26 donations.
Caveat # 4 - These donations are through June 2008.
Caveat # 5 - Since Palin was announced these numbers have changed.
Caveat # 6 - There are approximately 250,000 active military in overseas operations.
SO - using a handy calculator, these statistics show that the donors to Obama represent a sample size of less than (0.1%). That is statistically too small of a number to use to correlate into a liberal stance of "Troops support Obama 6 to 1."
It is not reliable to say these numbers can be extrapolated, as is standard polling practice, into a general statement of the same level of support in terms of overall numbers. Polling asks questions, donations represent monetary gifts.
One can not be used to represent the other. It is wrong.
Any headline at the time that read "Troops support Obama 6 to 1" was a lie. Howard Dean even made it a talking point for the base to use, as shills are prone to do.-
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lovemylibs1 year, 1 month ago
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And did you know that margins of error only represent the likelihood that the poll was accurately administered and registered?
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This means that a 3% to 4% MOE really means that there is a 6% to 8% chance (since MOE works in two directions) that the numbers are not representative of the data given to the poller from the pollee. It has nothing to do with the questions themselves but with how reliably the polling company asked the questions and recorded the answers.
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Nowalive1 year, 1 month ago
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By the math that you have given the numbers for the average amount donated by the 134 Obama supporters is $452.55. McCain's supporters, $410.19
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Who has a spare $500 lying around? Members of the Officers Corp. I suggest to you that it may be possible that these donations are primarily from officers. I can not say this with any degree of certainty without full disclosure of the donors information, but logic dictates this is a very high probability.
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Not only is it not a scientific poll ET, it's an exceedingly small snippet of the military not even associated with our troops overseas.
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Put another way ... it's simply another effort by those who promote the Neo-Conservative mantra of Welfare for the Wealthy to divide our nation.
How pathetic is it that these citizens try to mis-speak for our troops?
How unpatriotic is it to willfully misrepresent our overseas troops ... who are in harm's way ... as somehow supporting McCain ... when clearly ... they do not.
The data indicates they clearly support Barack Obama .. then Ron Paul ... then ... in a distant third place ... is John McCain.
Perhaps they feel the same way that redtomato feels ... that McCain is a 'doddering old fool' ... as redtomato used to call McCain ... when this member posted as AlphaGnosis.
Or maybe they look at the way he abandoned his wife and kids when he returned from Vietnam.
Our troops see that and think .. that's just like a 'Dear John' letter ... in reverse.
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Nowalive1 year, 1 month ago
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How unpatriotic indeed. To use our brave men and women as political pawns for either party.
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For those who have never served I respect your right to voice your opinion. You are guarateed that right by those of us who did serve. However, to try to sway public opion for the less politically educated by using them as spokespersons for ANY candidate is fundamentally wrong.
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amervtrn1 year, 1 month ago
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You had better stop and think.WILL you make the same mistake?For those too young to know or remember. Change for the sake of change is seldom for the better. 1975-76 the U.S. was in turmoil, and people were demanding change. An obscure young man with good credentials(exceptional credentials compared to the aspirants today). 1977, President Carter inherited an economy that was slowly emerging from a recession. After four years of the Carter presidency, both inflation and unemployment were worse than at the time of his inauguration. The annual inflation rate rose from 4.8% in 1976 to 6.8% in 1977, 9% in 1978, 11% in 1979, and hovered around 12% at the time of the 1980 election. Carter had pledged to eliminate federal deficits, the deficit 1979 $27.7 billion, 1980 was nearly $59 billion. Inflation(11-12 percent), and skyrocketing interest rates(21.5 percent). July 1980, Carter received a favorable rating of only 21% in the Gallup Poll. That was the lowest rating any president, including Richard Nixon at the time of his resignation, had received since polling began in 1936.This not to mention the devastated military preparedness and income tax rates. Do we need to re-live this in 2008-2012?
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Actually Carter had a far better economic record than Reagan. Higher economic growth, higher wage growth and lower unemployment. Furthermore, Carter did not raise taxes on average Americans (Reagan did so twice) to pay off the super-rich.
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Carter inherited the cost of Nixon running the Vietnam war on borrowings and an oil shock. The next president will inherit the cost of Bush running wars on borrowings, an oil shock and rampant financial corruption.
Continuing with the massive failure that started under Reagan is not the way to rescue America. We need a massive reversal to get America back to democracy.
Interview - Naomi Wolf - Give Me Liberty
Interview with Naomi Wolf author of Give Me Liberty: A Handbook for American Revolutionaries given October 4, 2008 on Mind Over Matters, KEXP 90.3 FM Seattle.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/10/06/intervie...
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Bill Clinton was a failure in the long term perspective. He caved in to the "deregulation" corruption for which we are now paying the price. He also caved in to military imperialism for which we are now paying the price.
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We need a much more thorough reversal of the past 30-40 years of increasing corruption and decreasing democracy in America.
International Criminal Tribunal: The US lied about Yugoslavia
The former chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Tribunal for Yugoslavia in The Hague, Carla Del Ponte, this year published her memoir The Hunt: Me and War Criminals. There was no genocide in Kosovo. The "holocaust" was a lie. The Nato attack was fraudulent.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/08/18/internat...-
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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One of the reasons that Clinton was a failure has to do with the zionist control of his government (the Democratic Leadership Council, 56% of Clinton's government appointments were jewish) to the great damage of American democracy.
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Peace, Propaganda and the Promised Land - How Israel manipulates and distorts American public perceptions
Through the voices of scholars, media critics, peace activists, religious figures, and Middle East experts, Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land carefully analyzes and explains how--through the use of language, framing and context--the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza remains hidden in the news media, and Israeli colonization of the occupied terrorities appears to be a defensive move rather than an offensive one.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/08/22/peace-pr...-
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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It remains to be seen whether Obama really represents change or just nice window dressing.
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The Transparent Cabal: The Neoconservative Agenda, War in the Middle East, and the National Interest of Israel
The Transparent Cabal: The Neoconservative Agenda, War in the Middle East, and the National Interest of Israel
Sniegoski’s new book demonstrates clearly how U.S. and Israeli policies and actions with respect to Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the other Gulf states, and even most recently Georgia are all tied together in a bundle of interrelated linkages, each of which affects all the others. The right wing of Israeli politics, the neoconservatives in the U.S. who strongly support Israel, and the aging Israel lobby in the United States all have worked together, and are still doing so, to bring about more wars, regime changes, and instability, specifically the fragmentation of any Middle Eastern states that might ever conceivably threaten Israel.
You will be treated to informative and well-written chapters on the origins of the neoconservative movement, the Israeli origins of the United States’ Middle East war agenda, and neocon planning against Iran, as well as chapters entitled “World War IV” (a very important chapter), and “Democracy for the Middle East.” A particularly important chapter on “Oil and Other Arguments for the War” argues that oil was not as important a reason for the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq as was Israel.
This book is a veritable bible on the neocons -- and a frightening one. Anyone who thought that neocon thinking and policymaking had become passé with the political eclipse of the likes of Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, and Douglas Feith will be disquieted to find that these individuals were only the tip of the iceberg and that on all issues having to do with Israel neocon thinking lives on in policymaking councils and is about to be passed on to the next administration, whether it be Democratic or Republican.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/09/27/the-tran... -
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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The Lobby has spoken - Obama's VP pick right for Israel
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It's hard for the average American to believe that Israeli interests could have such influence on a presidential election. Israeli propaganda does an outstandingly good job of diffusing any meaningful debate on the Middle East or Israel's role in shaping our foreign policies. Whether by defaming Jimmy Carter for daring to speak out or by censoring or ignoring important scholastic books such as "The Israel Lobby" by Professors Walt and Mearsheimer, Americans are kept ignorant of just how important it is to please Israel in order to have a real chance at occupying an elected post in Washington. Every politician, newsman, and pundit knows that you cannot be elected in Washington without the blessing of the American Israel Political Action Committee (AIPAC), known simply as "The Lobby" in Washington.
Mr. Biden, the self-proclaimed Zionist, assuages Israeli and Jewish American fears that Mr. Obama might not be so accommodating to Israel.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/09/19/the-lobb...
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Poulenc1 year, 1 month ago
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I'd call this non-news. Surely a majority of the troops would back any candidate who at least seemed to back their efforts, who gave no hint of questioning the raison d'etre for their service.
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But that doesn't mean that they're right--or even at one with their own best interests. -
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Leemck021 year, 1 month ago
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You are looking at a rigged voting block. The military process for intake is selective; you know output is tied to input. From first hand knowledge of Officer recruiting, those going to executive level management, you will find less than 3 percent Blacks in this core (professional management) for the Navy, 7 percent for the Marines and maybe 11 percent in the Army and Air Force. I haven't checked for a while but it's been that way for decades. The enlisted core, or production workforce, is somewhat different. That selection process is more open to intake and they test to advance; though their specialty and job influence their progress; people must move up in rank or get out the service. Who gets in, how long they stay is linked to the level which they rise. Like a town, why do you have a Black section across the tracks? Service people motivations to vote are different as they are in civilian life. Some vote to keep tradition, others vote to save the nation and still some vote for equality. Where do the whites, blacks, gender and those that come to the military for a first step fall into this scale? I'd say 60 percent whites (also with a higher occupancy at the upper levels) have a different angle than the other 23 percent that includes overlap and a minority Black presence. That's your real vote.
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lloydm651 year, 1 month ago
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When I served during the Korean war I was a republican,but I supported Truman all the way,I was still in Korea on election 1952 day, but I couldn't vote.They only allowed adults to vote then.
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I would have voted for Truman in a heart beat.I sure haven't seen a democrat since,that didn't discust me.
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