Voting Machines Flipping Votes From Democrat To Republican »
Posted By Aidenag 1 year, 3 months ago in Political NewsThree Putnam County voters say electronic voting machines changed their votes from Democrats to Republicans when they cast early ballots last week. This is the second West Virginia county where voters have reported this problem.
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Aidenag
Photographer by day, news junkie by night. My main areas of interest are politics and the environment.
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Aidenag1 year, 3 months ago
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Candida1 year, 3 months ago
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Perhaps they are using the same machines as in 2004:
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GLee1 year, 3 months ago
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capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user46 Replies
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hyperbola1 year, 3 months ago
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At least these people actually got to vote!
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GOP Strategy: Voter Suppression
In the 2000 Presidential election, reporter Greg Palast, author of "The Best Democracy Money can Buy," broke the story of Florida's illegal voter purges, in which Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris kept 57,000 votes, most of them African-American, from being counted. Their names resembled names of persons convicted of crimes. The state eventually acknowledged that the purge was improper - two years after the Supreme Court selection of George W. Bush.
...During the 2004 Presidential election, 350,000 voters were disenfranchised in Ohio alone, enough to give the election to George W. Bush instead of the legitimate winner, John Kerry. The evidence was laid out in a Rolling Stone article by Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
A series of articles in 2004 by Adam Cohen, NY Times reporter, "Making Votes Count," details the problems states had during the 2004 election with voter disenfranchisement.
Now, with the debates over and Obama enjoying a sizeable lead in election polls, the only question remaining is whether we will have a fair election. This would not be a question had suppressing the vote not become a cornerstone of Republican electoral strategy.
..."If Democrats are to win the 2008 election, they must not simply beat John McCain at the polls - they must beat him by a margin that exceeds the level of GOP vote tampering."...
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/10/20/gop-stra... -
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GLee1 year, 3 months ago
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http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/10/17/a...
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What does a poll mean? What did it mean in the last two elections? -
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LADYSMITH1 year, 3 months ago
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Are you libs socialists? Check yourself against Carl Marx:
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http://webmail.aol.com/39155/aol/en-us/suite.aspx -
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LADYSMITH1 year, 3 months ago
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Want to see something scarier?
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http://webmail.aol.com/39155/aol/en-us/suite.aspx
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Eagle_Eye1 year, 3 months ago
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buckncindykill1 year, 3 months ago
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"The best way to solve this whole problem is that before you leave the voting booth, make sure on the review screen that everybody you want to vote for is checked."
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Sounds logical to me. Why would a voter "accept" a vote for someone, other than the one he voted for, before leaving the booth?
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GehlLady1 year, 3 months ago
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Beau78901 year, 3 months ago
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Unfortunately, the article says the voters who complained did just that, and no one in the polling place new how to fix the problem.
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Luckily, the Obama campaign received a record $150 million in campaign donations in September that will help mount legal challenges to battle election fraud. -
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Endoscopy1 year, 3 months ago
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ROTFLMAO
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"We have gone to paper ballots in my county, thank God! "
I watched on TV the county commission where I live investigate the different means of voting. The people there were giving evidence of what would be the best method of voting. Of course each maker of voting tools said theirs was the best.
Then there was an independent researcher that came in and demonstrated how each and every method could be messed up just by the voters. The paper methods were the worst. He demonstrated how people mark ballots and what happens to punched cards. People can screw the paper up so every time you scan the card you might get different results. If the card is ejected for manual counting the person would be hard pressed to make a decision.
What was music to the commissioners ears was the fact that even if the voter messes up their voting on an electronic machine they will get the same answer every time the machine is asked for the results of voting. Recounts are simple. Just ask for the results again and you will get the same exact answer.
Bottom line was there is absolutely no perfect method and paper is the worst for mistakes by people and for fraud. But everybody screams about the voting machines and how they can be subverted. A slight of hand artist can do voter fraud with paper but it takes an extreme amount of knowledge and the willingness to go to jail if caught to modify the voting machines.
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Klarissa1 year, 3 months ago
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anti - you have a really honest VP candidate:
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It was also discovered that, while at Syracuse Law School, Biden had plagiarized a law review article in a class paper he wrote.
Biden said the act was inadvertent due to his not knowing the proper rules of citation, and Biden was permitted to retake the course after receiving a grade of F in the course.
Biden also released at the same time the record of his grades as an undergraduate which were C's and D's and an F in ROTC during his first three semesters.
Further, when questioned by a New Hampshire resident about his grades in law school Biden had claimed falsely to have graduated in the "top half" of his class, (when he actually graduated 76th in a class of 85 .
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Democratic presidential candidate Joseph R. Biden Jr., a U.S. senator from Delaware, was driven from the nomination battle after delivering, without attribution, passages from a speech by British Labor party leader Neil Kinnock.
A barrage of subsidiary revelations by the press also contributed to Biden's withdrawal: a serious plagiarism incident involving Biden during his law school years; the senator's boastful exaggerations of his academic record at a New Hampshire campaign event; and the discovery of other quotations in Biden's speeches pilfered from past Democratic politicians. -
sortofcute01Comment removed: Hard Banned15 Replies
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Georgia501 year, 3 months ago
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When I donate blood, my blood is assigned a barcode. No matter where my blood goes in the system, or what happens to me:
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1. I enjoy full anonymity and privacy
2. My blood can be traced back to me if needed
3. My donation can be traced forward to my blood packet's current location or final disposition.
Why don't we have this for our elections? Simple. No room for fraud. No political party and no court in the United States will allow a fraud-proof system even though the Red Cross, our libraries, and Blockbuster all use such technology on a routine basis.
Now let's all do what they want us to do: point the finger at the other party. But whatever in the hell you do, don't insist that we fix our system. Let's let them continue to play with us the way a cat plays with its prey.
/cynicism-
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lfergie8121 year, 3 months ago
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Georgia50
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There's a lot of logic in what you say. If the politicians really wanted to fix the voting system they would find a way to do it but keep in mind that everyone cannot be pleased with any system. So I think there will always be complaints of voters being disenfranchised because of tricks used by dishonest politicians but bear in mind that the only ones in the last 8 years that has kept or tried to keep people from voting has been the Republicans. Also keep in mind that even though there has been accusations of voter fraud by ACORN, it is not voter fraud until a person tries to use a fraudulent registration to cast a vote and that it is the election boards job to validate the person's right to vote. Not either parties.
Now on the topic of flipping votes, that is major voter fraud no matter which party is responsible. I know computers and know how computer programs are written and anyone that thinks these electronic voting machines are any different than the "one armed bandits" of Vegas are mistaken. -
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bruhaha1 year, 3 months ago
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I've heard one person who does electronic security for banks, etc. and he claims that because of anonymity (they can't trace back who voted for whom), there is no way to make electronic voting hack proof.
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Another person, here on propeller said that yes, it is possible.
I say, make a mark in a box on a paper ballot and then count manually.....like other countries do. -
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bruhaha1 year, 3 months ago
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The only problem with the blood example is that it can be traced back to you....as could your vote and therefore who you voted for. I wouldn't want, lets say a potential employer, with the right connections being able to find out who I voted for
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Gransater1 year, 3 months ago
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I find it amazing that in this day and age, with the advances in technology in all fields, we can't come up with a reliable voting system that a 6 year old could operate and feel confortable with.
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We have backup fail systems instaled in most complex pieces of equipment, yet, when it comes to verifying our voting records, no such thing is available. I guess keeping a true paper trace must just be too complicated. Surely no respectable company would keep open the possibility of backdoor tampering now, would they?-
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antibrainwasher1 year, 3 months ago
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In ohio, 6 hours after the US supreme court rejected the Ohio right wing GOP's effort to throw out 600,000 new registered voters (all dem) in their last ditch effort to game and cheat and lie and steal the election, like they did last cycle, the right wing facist GOP filled a new suit at the supreme court of Ohio level to do it again.
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The supreme court of ohio is 100% republican.
When you vote, vote out all republicans for judge, and state school board and even janitor. vote out all republicans. Every motherless one of them.
Republican's are without exception, partisan first, country second. No better example of that than Caribu Barbie and her Senile master.
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Progressive1 year, 3 months ago
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"Why don't we have this for our elections?"
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I'm guessing it's cost prohibitive, since more people vote than give blood (even we bleeding heart liberals). Neither Blockbuster nor our libraries are run by the government, but I agree we need to standardize and monitor our elections in a manner that renders the system fraud-proof.-
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Candida1 year, 3 months ago
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Progressive: "I'm guessing it's cost prohibitive since more people vote than give blood"
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I'm assuming that you are responding to the suggestion that each voter should be identified by a bar code, since the vote itself couldn't be while maintaining anonymity. When blood is identified by a bar code, there may be anonymity while in transit, but there is no true anonymity because it can be matched to the donor if needed or if someone wants to do it. I don't think it's the cost factor that makes that impractical but that it would be in essence a national ID. What portion of the population would support that?
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traveler20001 year, 3 months ago
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Why do we use (or are imposed to use) "electronic voting machines" or "voting computers" at all.
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The only way to avoid fraud in voting is by PAPER.
It's easy, and can be controlled at any time AND recounted if needed.
There is NO WAY you can make (electronic) voting machines that are foul and/or fraud prove.
Even if the voter checks his vote before leaving the boot, you can't be sure: who says that the "display" really shows what's happening in the program?
Even if you check the program before using it (by ALL parties), you never know if some clever guy didn't put a "hidden" program or bug somewhere in the main program.
When you think of it, electronic voting could (possibly, especially with the touch screen) even be a control of who is voting for who, just by checking the fingerprint..... (So much for "civil rights and privacy")
A simple paper ballot, with only a "dot/circle" to fill with a (black, red, blue .....) pencil, provided by the poll location is the safest way:
Every poll location has (a) representative(s) of each party, making sure the boxes are sealed and accounted for, and afterwards, each paper ballot is counted in presence of representatives of each party.....
Electronic voting should be forbidden as "unsafe" and or "unsure" -
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traveler20001 year, 3 months ago
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Dear "GehILady"
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Not being American (US), nor English being my first language, I don't know what you mean by "RFID".
That being said,
what I mean by ID card, is a compulsory card that you should have on you, even if you do n ot drive a car or e.g. don't even have a driving license.
I do know that (if that's what you're speaking about) they now have the technology to put a chip on a card, or even inside your body, under your skin, that can have all the info possible.
Those inplant chips are already used to identify pets (dogs etc.) livestock, and even customers in certain clubs. Some compagnies even inplant them on their staf, and that way, they don't need keys to ope doors (the chip does it) and they can keep track of the location of any individual....
Those things and aplications I'm totaly opposed to.
I'm just talking about an "official", difficult to falsifie, ID card, with just the info of
who you are,
your gender
when and where you are born
and of course your picture
possibly current adress,
and that's it
I don't like however, and unfortunately it is being introduce, ID cards with e.g. a chip containing that info, as you do not know what other info could be on it. -
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GehlLady1 year, 3 months ago
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traveler, I have problems with all the things you posted, as well as a national ID card. With RFID your movements can be tracked. It's not the idea I have a problem with as much as the execution. A simple ID wouldn't be much different than a drivers license, the Real ID law that has passed, is law, is a problem for it can include much more info than simply who you are.
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capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user1 Reply
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cloud151 year, 3 months ago
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The title of this story is the main problem we have in politics today. ".....from Democrat to Republican." See its a subtle thing but so very important. Why doesn't the title read "....from Obama to McCain."? Its because we no longer vote for a person, but the party. It doesn't matter who is up there running for president, but more importantly which party he belongs to. Party loyalty without question. Put the party first, the country second and yourself third. That's how this country is operating today. Nobody dares question "their" political party.
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cloud151 year, 3 months ago
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I think this is being blown a little out of proportion. There is no evidence saying the machines were rigged and there is no evidence of voter fraud. It happened in a few very isolated cases which I'm sure happens every election whether it be paper ballots or voting machines. If it was purposeful I would think it would show up in more cases than those reported. We have to remember the machines aren't perfect so there will be mistakes that have no fault with anyone. Touch screens can be very difficult to operate as they don't always line up with where you touch. While paper ballots are easier for the voter to fill out, it is harder for the counters to count. There could just as easily be mistakes during the counting process. One of the people in the story were able to correct the mistake so I'm guessing that if they all followed that person's lead they could have fixed theirs as well. Its a problem that has to be addressed before Nov. 4, but to jump to the conclusion of voter fraud is very premature.
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traveler20001 year, 3 months ago
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****.........While paper ballots are easier for the voter to fill out, it is harder for the counters to count. There could just as easily be mistakes during the counting process....***
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Yes it is harder to count, but at least it's also harder to cheat, as all can look on.
Yes, mistakes can happen as well, but they can be recounted, several people can check and look on (and correct....),
and , ..... it leaves "a paper trail", open and TRANSPARENT, for all to see and check
Computers are NOT transparent, and there is no paper trail, so you never know for certain what an individual really voted. -
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willottica1 year, 3 months ago
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Touch screens can be very difficult to operate as they don't always line up with where you touch.
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Exactly the problem. Did you know that it's possible to make the 'touchable area' smaller than the button that appears on the screen. Or to offset it purposefully? This could be done at the code level, or at the hardware level.
Why bother with touch-screens at all? A simple keyboard, with the numbers 1-10, an enter key, and a 'correct' key, would be far more reliable and far cheaper. Screen shows candidates with numbers next to them, voter keys in the number. It's easier than making a bank withdrawal, and no harder than dialing a telephone. -
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Candida1 year, 3 months ago
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cloud15: "It happened in a few very isolated cases which I'm sure happens every election whether it be paper ballots or voting machines."
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Yes, errors can occur no matter how good the system is, but there is a major difference between human error and machine error. Humans are inconsistent, can be inattentive, or even malicious on occasions, but machines are consistent. If machines make any mistakes at all, there is cause for concern because they are likely to make the same mistakes again and again. They can't be impulsive; it's against their nature.
In this case, all the reported cases involved a switch from the Democratic candidate to the Republican candidate, so it appears to be systematic, not a random error that the voter him/herself would have made.
You say: "One of the people in the story were able to correct the mistake so I'm guessing that if they all followed that person's lead they could have fixed theirs as well."
What you forget is that they weren't necessarily there at the same time, and that when you vote, you vote alone. There is no lead to follow. It is the duty of the election officials and workers to make sure that each voting machine works without error, and that each voter knows how to operate the machine properly and can register his/her choice.
BTW, how do you ensure confidentiality of the vote if people have to call election workers over to correct errors? I'm just curious. -
sailrComment removed: Retracted by user
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pongping1 year, 3 months ago
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I'm reading Dale Carnegie's How to Make Friends... Why don't we just do away with Republicans and Democrats? - saying that ought to make me some nice friends.
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A lot of folks are so married to a party that they have become blind, or worse, worker bees for an elite who couldn't care less about them. -
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Spadecaller1 year, 3 months ago
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What I also find disconcerting is the apathy and hypocrisy expressed by those Republicans and McCain supporters who are quick to bash Acorn in an attempt to smear Obama. But, when it comes to these electronic machines that appear in primarily Republican strongholds, they stand by and say nothing.
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Is that what one should call patriotism? Is allegiance to the dereliction of duty and the wanton subversion of free elections a partisan issue? I think not.
Mainstream media is now reporting "isolated" complaints about early voting "irregularities" in Florida too. Of course, Florida is run by a Republican based legislature and a republican governor. "Isolated" Bull! -
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Spadecaller1 year, 3 months ago
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The root the problem:
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http://www.freewebs.com/spadecaller/thevotingsyndi... -
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Spadecaller1 year, 3 months ago
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Why is vote-tampering mostly directed at the Republicans? It is understandable that many conservatives question what seems to be a one-sided attack. The answer is simple; the big three touchscreen providers are all major Republican donors, who dump hundreds of thousands of dollars into supporting republican candidates. The ownership issue is even more egregious because of their lack of transparency. These companies have all been notorious for refusing to reveal information about their voting systems in the light of allegations that began in 2000. As expert Dr Mercuri said: "If the machines were independently verifiable, who would give a crap who owns them?" Unfortunately, these machines are not independently verifiable and there are too many states and voting districts that are unwilling to abandon use of them. Their resistance to change spurs even more suspicion among American voters. Who are the players behind this strange attitude?
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The roster of radical right wing personalities is quite extensive. Billionaire Howard Ahmanson, a reclusive fundamentalist -- Christian philanthropist from Orange County, CA. heads the list. Suffering from Tourette's syndrome, most of his public statements are made by his wife, Roberta. During the 1970s, Ahmanson became a disciple of R. J. Rushdoony, an Armenian cleric who preached the doctrine of "reconstructionism", a brand of Christian fundamentalism that advocates strict governance by Old Testament law.
Ahmanson provided capital to brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich, the founders of ES (previously American Information Systems) the company that provides the unreliable electronic voting machines without paper trail verification that millions of American voters have been using and will be using this November 2008. In addition, Ahmanson regularly donates to numerous Republican candidates.
In the early 1980s, Bob and Todd Urosevich (Vice Pres.) started ES as a company called Data Mark. Bob Urosevich is head of IMark, the creator of the software architecture used in many US voting machines and part of the management of Premier Election Systems (formerly Diebold Election Systems). Thomas W. Swidarski replaced Urosevich as President of Diebold Election Systems in the second half of 2004; the same year George W. Bush was re-elected after defeating John Kerry.-
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Endoscopy1 year, 3 months ago
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Poor spadecaller. The election problems in every election happen about equally on both sides. Remember in 2000 the big problem with the butterfly ballots. Turned out that they were created by Democrats in order to try and make an easier to read ballot.
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Want the easiest to mess up method? old fashioned paper ballots. A lot of voter fraud has been done by substituting one set for another by slight of hand techniques.
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Endoscopy1 year, 3 months ago
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The same way that the scum of the earth that are the Democrat party are supported by whale poop liberals.
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Two can play at the name calling game. Why don't you raise the discourse and discuss the issues instead of dong an emotional rant?
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obiefrommuskogee1 year, 3 months ago
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I am reposting a comment from another forum that has some good info why it's Republican vote tampering:
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Do Christian reconstructionist brothers Bob and Todd Urosevich determine the outcome of presidential elections? They control the two largest voting machine companies, Election Systems and Software and Premier Election Solutions (formerly Diebold Elections Systems). Christian reconstructionists wish to reconstruct the nation as a Biblically based theocracy, including execution for blasphemy, adultery and witchcraft (although they are not quite as extreme as the theonomists, who support stoning). Google "Christian Statesman" stoning. -
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ETproductions1 year, 3 months ago
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We have GOT to get away from voting machines that have no paper audit trail. In election since 2000, exit polls in districts with paper ballots matched very closely with the exact vote, but in districts using unauditable electronic machines, Republican candidates did about 5% better than the exit polls showed.
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The companies making the voting machines are all managed by Rabid Republican supporters. So the programmer decides who wins when you use those machines.
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