Comments for Explaining the Long — and Largely Untold — History of Jewish Opposition to Zionism »
Posted By hyperbola 11 months, 3 weeks ago in ReligionA THREAT FROM WITHIN: A CENTURY OF JEWISH OPPOSITION TO ZIONISM,
by Yakov M. Rabkin,
While many in Israel and in Jewish communities in the U.S. and other countries now promote the idea that Zionism and Judaism are, in effect, the same and that opposition to Zionism constitutes “anti-Semitism,” the historical fact — largely untold — is that, for most of its history, Zionism has been a decidedly minority movement among Jews throughout the world.
Since its inception as a political movement in 1897, both Reform and Orthodox Jews rejected Zionism’s basic premise of creating a Jewish state in Palestine and having Jews either emigrate to it or, at the very least, consider it “central” to their Jewish identity.
An overwhelming majority of Orthodox Jews, unwilling to accept the restoration of a Jewish state in Palestine by means other than divine intervention, considered Zionism a false messianic movement. Most Jewish liberals and socialists, having accepted the faith of the Enlightenment, with its emphasis on optimism, reason and progress, rejected Zionism as a reactionary philosophy. ....
... In the forward, Joseph Agassi, professor of Philosophy at Tel Aviv University, notes that, “The author raises questions about the myth that Israel protects the Jews around the world and constitutes their natural homeland. This book rightly shows that this myth is anti-Jewish. ...
... Zionism gained support in areas where social and political conditions were unfavorable to Jews, particularly the Russian Empire. Indeed, Rabkin argues that Zionism has far more in common with the emerging nationalisms which swept Europe in the late 19th and early 20th centuries than anything to be found in Jewish tradition. ...
... This instrumentalization of religion, writes Israeli historian and political scientist Zeev Sternhell, is not specific to Zionism but can be found in many varieties of organic nationalism propagated in Europe from the mid-l9th century onward. Rabkin declares that, “While keeping intact the social function of religion in order to unify the people, Zionism eliminated its metaphysical content. In the same way religion became a vital element of many varieties of nationalism; for example, neither the Polish variant nor 1’Action Francaise made any efforts to disguise their Catholic traits, Sternhell defines this trend as ‘religion without God,’ religion that has preserved only its outward symbols.” ...
Zionist leaders took as their model the nationalisms which emerged in largely undemocratic societies and seemed to have little understanding of the dynamics of free, open societies such as France, England and the United States. .... But few Zionists were aware of a countervailing reality, such as that of France, where in a slow and deliberate process, the state made use of an existing legal and political framework to create a nation. They had never experienced the kind of tolerant nationalism that could allow for a clear distinction between nation, religion and society — the model that enables large Jewish communities to thrive in France, England and the U.S. today (and where a substantial number of rabbinical critics of Zionism can be found)....
In Israel itself, the gulf that separates the secular from Judaism in all its forms has widened. Israeli newspapers are full of caricatures of Orthodox Jews, not unlike the anti-Semitic stereotypes current in Europe in the 19th and early 20th centuries. The Israeli historian Noah Efron declares: “This kind of hostility is not novel. Nowhere are Haredi Jews as feared and hated as in Israel. ...
The use of violence, Rabkin points out, was to be found among Zionists from the very beginning, against both indigenous Arabs and Jews who dared to challenge the emerging Zionist consensus..... Albert Einstein was among the Jewish humanists who denounced the Betar youth movement in 1935, describing it as being “as much a danger to our youth as Hitlerism is to German youth.”....
Terrorism has frequently reared its head among extremists within the ranks of Zionism. The bombing of the King David Hotel, the assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte and the murder of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin are well known. The political assassination of Jacob Israel De Haan (1881-1924) is less well known... Rabkin laments that, “... the sad tale of De Haan reminds us that the terrorism the Zionists brought with them from Russia to Palestine in the early years of the 20th century would ultimately be turned against their descendants in the closing decades of the century ... Indeed, aside from the Hagganah, which was responsible for the assassination of De Haan, several armed organiz¬ations — such as Lehi and Irgun — perpetrated terrorist acts. Their leaders, Itzhak Shamir and Menachem Begin, went on to become prime ministers of Israel. What united these military organizations was the conviction that it was necessary to inculcate fear and to terrorize the adversary, all in the name of establishing a nation. Ironically, the same approach was later to be adopted by the Palestinian terrorists.” .....
... Fortunately, Rabkin shows, more and more prominent Jews are rejecting such efforts at thought control. A veteran of American Jewish organizations who has taken a critical distance from his institutional past, Henry Siegman, regrets what he calls “Jewish community McCarthyism” and has said that for many Jewish organizations, “if you do not support the government of Israel, then your Jewishness and not your political judgment will be called into question.”
Professor Rabkin has written a scholarly work which brings alive for the reader a complex history which has been largely ignored. No one who reads this book will ever again believe that Zionism and Judaism are the same, or that Zionism enjoys the level of support among Jews in the United States and elsewhere in the world which it claims.
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truthiness11 months, 3 weeks ago
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"The 28th Zionist Congress, meeting in Jerusalem 1968, adopted the five points of the "Jerusalem Program" as the aims of Zionism today.
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1. The unity of the Jewish People and the centrality of Israel in Jewish life;
2. The ingathering of the Jewish People in its historic homeland, Eretz Israel, through Aliyah from all countries;
3. The strengthening of the State of Israel which is based on the prophetic vision of justice and peace:
4. The preservation of the identity of the Jewish People through the fostering of Jewish and Hebrew education and of Jewish spiritual and cultural values;
5. The protection of Jewish rights everywhere."-
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Those very points emphasize how similar zionism is to other totalitarian ideologies, e.g. the Nazi aryan master race.
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'''''1. The unity of the Jewish People and the centrality of Israel in Jewish life;''''
Why should any jew be compelled to accept a racist totalitarian state as the be-all and end-all of his life? This is pure terrorism by a violent minority.
''''2. The ingathering of the Jewish People in its historic homeland, Eretz Israel, through Aliyah from all countries; ''''
And zionists bombed and killed jews all over the mideast to force them to move to israel. Many of those mideastern jews now hate the askenazi racists from eastern europe.
THE JEWS OF IRAQ - TESTIMONY OF A FORMER ZIONIST
By Naeim Giladi
Naeim Giladi: "I write this article for the same reason I wrote my book: to tell the American people, and especially American Jews, that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews; and that, to buy time to confiscate ever more Arab lands, Jews on numerous occasions rejected genuine peace initiatives from their Arab neighbors. I write about what the first Prime Minister of Israel called 'cruel Zionism'. I write about it because I was part of it."
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/jewsofiraq.htm
At the present time, given that jews are only 35% of the population of Palestine (5.5. million jews, 10.5 million christians and moslems according to the UN census), given that the zionists are desperate for more cannon fodder (see below), and given that the biggest potential is in the US, american jews may well be the next target of zionist violence.
New West Bank Settlers - Peruvian Indians!
Orthodox Israeli Jewish Rabbis have found a new source for their ideologically driven settlers in order to try and fill the empty apartments in their many settlements on Palestinian land in the West Bank: Peruvian Indians....
http://jmm.aaa.net.au/articles/444.htm -
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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''''3. The strengthening of the State of Israel which is based on the prophetic vision of justice and peace: ''''
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The claim that zionism is based on a 'prophetic' vision of justice and peace is a good example of feeding phony religion to the masses to 'induce' them to support totalitarian goals. It is very similar to Hitler's claims that nazism is based on 'christian family values'. Indeed, many of the zionist leaders EXPLICITLY endorsed Hitler's ideas about the 'organization' of society.
Here is a commentary from an american jew about this feature of zionism. It is well worth reading all of this article (and the book) to understand the true nature of zionism.
51 Documents:
Zionist Collaboration with the Nazis
In 1983, Croom Helm Ltd. published my 1st book, Zionism in the Age of the Dictators.... There are six selections re Zionism's relationship to anti-Semitism and racism prior to Hitler...
...Zionism convicts itself. On June 21, 1933, the German Zionist Federation sent a secret memorandum to the Nazis:
.... "Zionism believes that a rebirth of national life, such as is occurring in German life through adhesion to Christian and national values, must also take place in the Jewish national group. For the Jew, too, origin, religion, community of fate and group consciousness must be of decisive significance in the shaping of his life. This means that the egotistic individualism which arose in the liberal era must be overcome by public spiritedness and by willingness to accept responsibility."...-
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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.... Zionist factions competed for the honor of allying to Hitler. By 1940-41, the "Stern Gang," among them Yitzhak Shamir, later Prime Minister of Israel, presented the Nazis with the "Fundamental Features of the Proposal of the National Military Organization in Palestine (Irgun Zvai Leumi) Concerning the Solution of the Jewish Question in Europe and the Participation of the NMO in the War on the Side of Germany."
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Avraham Stern and his followers announced that
"The NMO, which is well-acquainted with the goodwill of the German Reich government and its authorities towards Zionist activity inside Germany and towards Zionist emigration plans, is of the opinion that:
1. Common interests could exist between the establishment of a new order in Europe in conformity with the German concept, and the true national aspirations of the Jewish people as they are embodied by the NMO.
2. Cooperation between the new Germany and a renewed folkish-national Hebraium would be possible and,
3. The establishment of the historic Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East.
Proceeding from these considerations, the NMO in Palestine, under the condition the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany's side."
They hanged people all over Europe after WW II for notes to the Nazis like these. But these treasons against the Jews were virtually unknown in the run up to the creation of the Zionist state in May 1948..... Jews and other Americans still know little of Zionism's sordid past. But today only programed fanatics can come away pro-Zionist after reading plain facts. Indeed, according to the American Jewish Identity Survey (2001), less than 22% of all Jews declare themselves Zionist....
http://www.counterpunch.org/brenner1223.html -
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Far from offering a 'prophetic' version of peace and justice, the zionist state offers extreme racism and discrimination, both for those christians and moslems who are nominally israeli citizens and ESPECIALLY for the over seven million refugees of zionist ethnic cleansing. So much so that more and more israelis are disgusted by the nature of the zionist state.
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Father, forgive me, I will not fight for your Israel
Omer Goldman, daughter of a former Mossad chief, tells why she prefers jail to the military draft....
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/10/12/father-f...
It really is time for american jews who believe in the basic principles of american democracy to begin rescuing israelis from a corrupt, racist, totalitarian state. This starts with total, LOUD rejection of the zioncons in america that push israel towards suicide.
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truthiness11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Advanced genetic testing, including Y-DNA and mtDNA haplotyping, of modern Jewish communities around the world, has helped to determine which of the communities are likely to descend from the Israelites and which are not, as well as to establish the degrees of separation between the groups. Important studies archived here include the University College London study of 2002, Ariella Oppenheim's study of 2001, Ariella Oppenheim's study of 2000, Michael Hammer's study of 2000, Doron Behar's study of 2008, and others.
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Key findings:
The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J and E.
Ashkenazim also descend, in a smaller way, from European peoples such as Slavs and Khazars. The non-Israelite Y-DNA haplogroups include Q (typically Central Asian) and R1a1 (typically Eastern European).
Dutch Jews from the Netherlands also descend from northwestern Europeans.
Sephardim also descend, in a smaller way, from various non-Israelite peoples.
Georgian Jews (Gruzinim) are a mix of Georgians and Israelites.
Yemenite Jews (Temanim) are a mix of Yemenite Arabs and Israelites.
Moroccan Jews, Algerian Jews, and Tunisian Jews are mainly Israelites.
Libyan Jews are mainly Israelites who may have mixed somewhat with Berbers.
Ethiopian Jews are almost exclusively Ethiopian, with little or no Israelite ancestry.
Bene Israel Jews and Cochin Jews of India have much Indian ancestry in their mtDNA.
Palestinian Arabs are probably partly Israelite.
"Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level. The results support the hypothesis that the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population, and suggest that most Jewish communities have remained relatively isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora."
(M.F. Hammer, Proc. Nat'l Academy of Science, May 9, 2000)-
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truthiness11 months, 3 weeks ago
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the purpose of this post is to refute the false premise put forward in the article that jews are somehow not a people in their own right but a religious group only. It may be more proper to identify the ethnicity as Hebrews, but the semantic difference is the one between calling African-Americans by the name 'blacks'. one may be more accurate than the other, but neither moniker changes the identity.
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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The 'jewish people' is a very recent, rather ugly construct of zionists who have pretty much abandoned judaism. Given the 'transnational' character of zionism, it would be more accurate to define zionism as a pseudo-religious sect (a rather small one at that) which has abandoned most of the religious content of judaism and largely is a racist 'nationalistic' movement.
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Here is a good israeli summary of the rather totalitarian nationalistic path invented by zionism. Sounds much like the aryan master race ideology (and has its roots in the same east european ferment of racism and totalitarianism that gave us Hitler and Stalin).
When and How Was the Jewish People Invented?
No one is more surprised than Shlomo Sand that his latest academic work has spent 19 weeks on Israel's bestseller list – and that success has come to the history professor despite his book challenging Israel's biggest taboo.
Dr. Sand argues that the idea of a Jewish nation – whose need for a safe haven was originally used to justify the founding of the state of Israel – is a myth invented little more than a century ago.
An expert on European history at Tel Aviv University, Dr. Sand drew on extensive historical and archaeological research to support not only this claim but several more – all equally controversial.
In addition, he argues that the Jews were never exiled from the Holy Land, that most of today's Jews have no historical connection to the land called Israel and that the only political solution to the country's conflict with the Palestinians is to abolish the Jewish state.
The success of When and How Was the Jewish People Invented? looks likely to be repeated around the world.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/10/09/when-and...
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Well truthi, either you are not very well informed about the subject of genetics or you are deliberately trying to mislead us here. There is a HUGE amount of more recent information. Here is a first warning about what you are trying to claim:
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Beware the gene genies
Lavish but questionable promises have been made to those who want to trace their genetic ancestry
"Studies of human genetic diversity have barely begun. Yet the fashion for genetic ancestry testing is booming.... Buoyed by the hype, the private sector has been moving in. Other groups, such as Jews, are now being targeted. This despite the fact that Jewish communities have little in common on their mitochondrial side - the maternal line down which Judaism is traditionally inherited. It's the male side that shows common ancestry between different Jewish communities - so, of course, that's what the geneticists focus on." ....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2003/feb/21/hi...-
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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To which we might add that not even jews agree on the 'meaning' of the available genetic evidence (see below for a 2008 commentary from an american jew).
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To that, we might add that all this is in any case totally irrelevant. Are you really suggesting that the world should introduce racism based on genetic background? What would you do with the 40% of Americans who have black genes in their genetic makeup?
Hillel Halkin. "Jews and Their DNA." Commentary Magazine (September 2008).
.... In a class by itself is the mitochondrial DNA of Ashkenazi women. It does not correlate closely with the DNA of non-Jewish women in Western, Central, or Eastern Europe and it has a large Middle Eastern component. ...the Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi Jews have more in common with those of Italians and Greeks than with those of West Europeans. ... An 11.5-percent incidence of R-M117 among Ashkenazi Jews in general is easily explainable: the mutation could have entered the Jewish gene pool slowly, in small increments in every generation, during the thousand years of Ashkenazi Jewry's existence. ... But the 52-percent rate among Levites is something else. Here we are dealing not with a gradual, long-term process (for no imaginable process could have produced such results), but with a one-time event of some sort. ... Both of our studies, therefore, raise the possibility that the original R-M117 Levites were Khazarian Jews who migrated westward upon the fall of the Khazar kingdom. ... Analyzing the data, the American-Israeli-British study concludes that the number of R-M117 Levites absorbed by Ashkenazi Jewry ranged from one to fifty individuals. ... Nor do we know the percentage of Khazars possessing M117, which is found in 12 or 13 percent of Russian and Ukrainian males today. If these were also its proportions among the Khazars, there would have been seven non-M117 Khazars joining or founding Ashkenazi Jewry for every Khazar who had the mutation. In sum, even if the R-M117 Levites are traceable to Khazaria, the total flow of Khazarians into the East European Jewish population could have been anywhere from a single person to many thousands. If it was the latter, the Khazar input was significant, as David Goldstein suspects it was; if the former, it was trivial, as Jon Entine believes. ... I myself have long suspected, starting far before I knew anything of historical genetics or Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe, that I have Khazar blood in me. ...
http://www.khazaria.com/genetics/abstracts-jews.ht... -
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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The Jewish Daily Forward
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The Fallacy of Biological Judaism
... Given the historical context of the Nazi “experiment,” it is all the more remarkable that Jews all over the world have been flocking to the new technology of DNA-based diagnosis, eager to lend their individual genomes — each a surviving data point from the terrible experiment in negative selection — to a revisiting of this issue of biological Judaism.
At a recent meeting of the Association of Orthodox Jewish scientists and the Columbia Center for the Study of Science and Religion, it became clear that Jewish curiosity has provided sufficient genetic material to give a perfectly clear negative answer: There is no support in the genomes of today’s Jews for the calumnious and calamitous model of biological Judaism. Though there are many deleterious versions of genes shared within the Ashkenazic community, there are no DNA sequences common to all Jews and absent from all non-Jews. There is nothing in the human genome that makes or diagnoses a person as a Jew....
http://www.forward.com/articles/9406/
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truthiness11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Country, State, and Nation
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Definining an Independent Country
By Matt Rosenberg, About.com
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Nation State
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While the terms country, state, and nation are often used interchangeably, there is a difference.
A State (note the capital "S") is a self-governing political entity. The term State can be used interchangeably with country.
A nation, however, is a tightly-knit group of people which share a common culture. A nation-state is a nation which has the same borders as a State.
States and Independent Countries
Let's start with what defines a State or an independent country. An independent State:
Has space or territory which has internationally recognized boundaries (boundary disputes are OK).
Has people who live there on an ongoing basis.
Has economic activity and an organized economy. A country regulates foreign and domestic trade and issues money.
Has the power of social engineering, such as education.
Has a transportation system for moving goods and people.
Has a government which provides public services and police power.
Has sovereignty. No other State should have power over the country's territory.
Has external recognition. A country has been "voted into the club" by other countries.
There are currently 195 independent countries or States around the world. Territories of countries or individual parts of a country are not countries in their own right.
Examples of entities that are not countries include: Hong Kong, Bermuda, Greenland, Puerto Rico, and most notably the constituent parts of the United Kingdom. (Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and England are not countries.)
A "state" (with a lower-case "s") is usually a division of a federal State (such as the states of the United States of America).
Nations and Nation-States
Nations are culturally homogeneous groups of people, larger than a single tribe or community, which share a common language, institutions, religion, and historical experience.
When a nation of people have a State or country of their own, it is called a nation-state. Places like France, Egypt, Germany, Japan, and New Zealand are excellent examples of nation-states. There are some States which have two nations, such as Canada and Belgium. Even with its multicultural society, the United States is also referred to as a nation-state because of the shared American "culture."-
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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The definitions given are obsolete and provincial. MANY countries have numerous languages, numerous cultures and are anything, but homogeneous. Switzerland, for example, has four official languages and german, french and italian cultures.
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The silliness of this argument can be seen by the fact that the same 'criteria' could be used to argue that apartheid South Africa was an 'entitled nation-state' and therefore the world should accept its crimes against humanity. This is no more true for israel than it was for South Africa. -
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italymeetsdixie11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Truthiness, I would agree with you if the Palestinians were an outside group. But the reality is that they were there first, and therefore should have rights within their own land. And not some rights, but equal rights.
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While I will agree that Israelis have done much to prove its ability to do right by the jewish people and its ability to govern them. I would point out that the Palestinian people have not had the time, resources, or the right to prove its capabilities. In other words, it is really hard to think about creating a park for your children to play in when you aren't sure you can feed them that night. Or whether your neighborhood will still be there tomorrow or next week.
Your points lose some validity with me, when there are numerous citizens of the Israeli state who disagree with you. There are even several people within the Israeli government who are seeing this whole situation unfold before their eyes, not in the random articles that we are reading, who disagree with you.-
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Thinker2211 months, 2 weeks ago
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> I would agree with you if the Palestinians were an outside group. But the reality is that they were there first, and therefore should have rights within their own land. And not some rights, but equal rights.
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I'm not sure what the "first" means or when the "first" began but the first time Palestinians were mentioned as a "people" (an ethnic entity) was during the late 1960s. Prior to that these people were 'just' ordinary Arabs no different from Syrians or Jordanians. Further, "equal rights within their own land" were offered to the Palestinian Arabs in 1948 by the UN Partition Resolution; in 1967 when Israel offered to return all lands captured in the Six Day War to the Arabs in exchange for peace; in 1978 when Israel and Egypt signed a peace agreement and the Palestinian Arabs were invited to join the process; in 2000 when Israel offered the Palestinians 95% of the West Bank and 100% of Gaza; in 2001 when the offer was made even better to include 98% of the West Bank as well as sovereignty over part of Jerusalem.
Unfortunately, all these offers were rejected by the Palestinians.
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truthiness11 months, 3 weeks ago
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I can find quotes from people of any nationality with all sorts of titles who will will refute the basic premise of their nation or states identity. that alone proves nothing. that alone leads us to nothing.
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a group of people with a common bond of culture and lineage gathered in the land of their ancestors and built a homeland. those around them attempted to destroy them by force and failed. those enemies suffered for the attempt.
now a decision must be made. whether to continue a cycle of violence and hatred that will only lead to more suffering, or to accept the successful development of this nation and agree to leave together peacefully.
the israelis have made it clear they are willing to negotiate (most of them) and many palestinians have as well. it is time for the extreme elements in the two governments to stop pushing for untenable positions, accept that peace is the only answer for their children, and work out the details.
continuing to fan the flames of hate with irrelevant commentary like this article only adds to the suffering of the innocent caught in the middle.-
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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At the end of the 19th century, when zionism got its start in eastern europe, jews were less than 6% of the population of palestine. The ONLY time the jews had a 'national homeland' in palestine was during the kingdom of david in 1000 BC - and that fell apart after about 70 years. For virtually ALL of history, the jews WERE NOT the governing power in palestine (although some were there and although they and other groups were often left alone by the governing powers).
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The cycle of violence, racism, totalitarianism and crimes against humanity insitituted by a pseudo-jewish sect called zionism MUST be ended by the world.
Here is a good description of the challenge we face by an Israeli.
Why Israel Has No "Right to Exist" as a Jewish State
.... In our world, a world that resisted Apartheid South Africa so impressively, recognition of the right of the Jewish state to exist is a litmus test for moderation and pragmatism. The demand is that Palestinians recognise Israel's entitlement to constitutionally entrench a system of racist basic laws and policies, differential immigration criteria for Jews and non-Jews, differential ownership and settlements rights, differential capital investments, differential investment in education, formal rules and informal conventions that differentiate the potential stakes of political participation, lame-duck academic freedom and debate....
... The Jewish state could only come into being in May 1948 by ethnically cleansing most of the indigenous population--750000 of them. The judaisation of the state could only be effectively implemented by constantly internally displacing the population of many villages within the Israel state....
... The path of two states is the path of separation.Its realisation would mean the entrenchment of exclusionary nationalism for many years. It would mean that the return of the dispossessed and the equality of those who return and those non-Jew-Arabs who are now there would have to be deferred indefinitely consigned to the dusty shelved of historical injustices.Such a scenario is sure to provoke more violence as it would establish the realisation and legitimisation of Zionist racism and imperialism....-
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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... The non-recognition of the Jewish state is an egalitarian imperative that looks both at the past and to the future. It is the uncritical recognition of the right of Israel to exist at a Jewish state which is the core hindrance for this egalitarian premise to shape the ethical challenge that Palestine poses. A recognition of Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state means the silencing that would breed more and more violence and bloodshed....
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... To claim such a right to be racist must come from a being whose victim's face must hide very dark primordial aggression and hatred of all others.How can we find a connective tissue to that mentality that claims the legitimate right to harm other human beings? How can this aggression that is embedded in victim mentality be perturbed?
Only a single egalitarian and non sectrarian state over all the whole of historic
Palestine will achieve justice and peace.
http://www.counterpunch.org/bendor11202007.html
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Endoscopy11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Typical hyper antisemitic article and postings. He is very much a Jew hater. He sounds like a Muslim. Are you hyper. Is that why you are so into the Zionist conspiracy?
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What hyper and others ignore is the prayer of Jews for centuries was "Next year in Jeruselam."
A bit of history of Zionism.
1843 - First Zionist writings of Rabbi Alcalay and of Rabbi Kalischer, Emuna Yeshara.
1844 - First census in Jerusalem shows 7120 Jews, 5760 Muslims, 3390 Christians.
1860 - First Jewish settlement (Mishkenot Sha'ananim) outside Jerusalem walls.
1878 - First Zionist Settlement - Petah Tikwa
1870s - Formation of Hovevei Tzion in Russia
1882 - Leon Pinsker writes Auto-Emancipation in 1882; formation of BILU; beginning of the First Aliya (wave of immigration).
1897 - First Zionist Congress in Basle, Switzerland.
Nov. 2 1917 - British issued the Balfour Declaration, promising a “National Home” for the Jews in Palestine.
1936 - 1939 - Arab Revolt led by Haj Amin Al-Husseini. Over 5,000 Arabs were killed according to some sources, mostly by British. Several hundred Jews were killed by Arabs. Husseini fled to Iraq and then to Nazi Germany. British White Paper (1939) severely restricts Jewish immigration.
May 9, 1942 - Biltmore Program - Zionist leaders, headed by Chaim Weizmann and David Ben-Gurion, convene at the Biltmore Hotel in New York and declare their postwar program (known as the Biltmore Program). The program recommended an end to the British Mandate and demand Jewish control over immigration to Palestine with the aim of founding a Jewish "Commonwealth."
Most of this is Jews pushing for a homeland like they were praying about for centuries. Why do you ignore this side of it hyper. Is your hatred of them that great? Also note the census in 1844 shows that Jews were there already in bigger numbers than the Muslims or Christians. This is always ignored.-
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willottica11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Your same census also shows that Jews were NOT a majority. Seven thousand some Jews to Eight thousand some non-Jews.
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Jews pushing for a homeland like they were praying for for centuries Just because they really, really, want it, doesn't mean they deserve it and can take it by force. I realize the Old Testament may have a different take on it (the Battle of Jericho), but I don't recall divine intervention getting them their victory this time.-
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Thinker2211 months, 2 weeks ago
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> Just because they really, really, want it, doesn't mean they deserve it and can take it by force.
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Can you explain it to the Palestinian Arabs please? Can you tell them that no matter how much they want to take Israel by force they will not have it and will only get what they, obviously, deserve?
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Well Endo, Hitler also had his plan for "living space" for the "master race". Given your arguments, I take it we should assume that you are in favor of that kind of plan. After all, as several of the articles I linked above documented, there are very strong parallels between the "aryan" plan and "zionism" that are rooted in the 19th century east european ferment of racism and totalitarianism.
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You are over a century too late with your abominations Endo - the world has already seen the bloody disasters caused by your kind of ideology. And, if you are in the US, you have let to learn the basic principles of american democracy.-
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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By the way Endo, here are some other population figures that suggest yours are cooked.
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Palestinian Population, 1860-2000 (thousands)
YEAR WITHIN PALESTINE ISRAEL WEST BANK* GAZA INSIDE PALESTINE TOTAL
1860 411 411
1890 553 533
1914 738 738
1918 689 ** 689
1931 860 860
1940 1,086 1,086
1946 1,308 1,308
1950 1,170 of which 165 765 240 304 1,474
1960 1,340 239 799 302 647 1,987
1970 1,412 367 677 368 1,289 2,701
1980 1,992 531 964 497 2,100 4,092
1990 2,731 687 1,373 671 3,302 6,033
2000 3,787 919 1,836 1,032 4,667 8,454
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-...
What is absolutely clear is that at NO TIME in the last 200 years has the palestinain jewish population outnumbered the palestinian christian and moslem population. Today jews are about 35% of the total population.-
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Thinker2211 months, 2 weeks ago
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> What is absolutely clear is that at NO TIME in the last 200 years has the palestinain jewish population outnumbered the palestinian christian and moslem population. Today jews are about 35% of the total population.
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You should ask someone to show you how to read the table and (if possible, of course) how to use a calculator, dear Dr. Hyperbola, PhD.
You see, the FIRST column in your table is the year when the population was counted (1860, 1890, 1914, etc.)
The SECOND column is the number of Palestinians (Arabs) in Palestine at the time in thousands. For example, 411 means that at the time (in 1860) there were 411,000 Palestinians (non-Jews) in Palestine. Finally, the LAST column tells us the TOTAL population of Palestine.
Now, if you divide the SECOND number in each row by the LAST number in the ssame row you'll know the percentage of the Palestinian (non-Jewish) population in the year represented by the FIRST number in that row.
For example, dividing 1340 by 1987 one will get 0.67 which tells us that there were 67% of Palestinians (non-Jews) in 1960. Repeating this process one will discover that the percentage of Palestinians (non-Jews) in the following years was 52% in 1970, 49% in 1980, 45% in 1990 and 45% in 2000.
These numbers were taken from YOUR post, Dr. Hyperbola. Now, if you'll make another mental efford to recall that if the TOTAL population is taken as 100% and the Palestinians are 45% of it then by subtracting 45% of Palestinians (non-Jews) from the 100% representing both Jews and non-Jews one will arrive to a conclusion that the percentage of JEWS in Palestine was 51% in 1980, 55% in 1990 and 55% in 2000.
Try to use a calculator, Dr. Hyperbola, you can do it! -
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vettenut11 months, 3 weeks ago
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What I, as Goy/Gentile see in this article and in the comments by Hyperbola, is that, just as modernist, revisionist, higher-criticism, rationalist, left-wing, haughty "Christian" theologians and elitists look down upon their traditionalist, literalist, fervent, conservative and practicalist "Christian" brethren (calling them simplistic, gullible, fanatic "fundamentalists"), there exist modernist, revisionist, rationalist, elitist Jews who look down upon their traditionalist, literalist, fervent, conservative and nationalist brethren who strongly believe in and support the restored State of Israel and its future.
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Such a "look-down" haughtiness borders upon bigotry, and strongly resembles racism, self-justification, ego-centrism, self-righteousness and SELF-HATRED.
Personally, I do not see how these revisionist, rationalist elitists of either type can have any joy in their lives, or even sleep well at night, since their philosophy is not a happy one at all......-
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hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
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Ah my, trying to plug the zionist / christian zionist obscenity again.
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The silliness of your argument can be seen by the fact that the most traditional, conservative, religious jews OPPOSE the existence of a racist, totalitarian, non-jewish, zionist state of isreal.
Orthodox Jews Demand End to Zionist Atrocities in the Middle East
http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Statements/2006Jul...
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