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Posted by: pc25 1 year, 1 month ago
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pc251 year, 1 month ago
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from the LA TIMES quoted in this article
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http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-foreign...
Reporting from Washington -- Antiwar groups and other liberal activists are increasingly concerned at signs that Barack Obama's national security team will be dominated by appointees who favored the Iraq invasion and hold hawkish views on other important foreign policy issues.
The activists are uneasy not only about signs that both Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates could be in the Obama Cabinet, but at reports suggesting that several other short-list candidates for top security posts backed the decision to go to war.-

Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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I think this is just as funny as can be.
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For 3 solid months, you extremists have been claiming he's everything from a commie to the anti-Christ.
Now, you are considering he's a hawk.
And look who you are quoting in the article - liberal activists and anti-war groups.
It's like you 10 percenters of the right --- (you ditto-head Rush fans who continue to believe Bush is not extreme enough) --- can only address the 10 percenters on the left (who believe everyone should be singing kumbayah.
Meanwhile, the rest of the nation ... the rational 80 percenters ... already know that Barack Obama is a mainstream Democrat ... somewhat to the right of Hillary on some matters (like Health Care) and somewhat to the left on others (like War). That's why he was elected.
If you had taken the time to listen to Obama's campaign - you would know that he was likely to INCREASE our presence in Afghanistan --- even as he dislodged our nation from the quagmire that is Iraq.
Personally, what I'm most looking forward to from the Barack Obama administration is a return to Values, a respect for Social Justice, Honesty, Rational Respect for Science, and an end to perverse grand experiment with Ideologically Driven Governance.
Plus, it will be nice to be rid of the Moral Vacancy that the fake Christian brought to our government.
Look, Barack Obama is as mainstream a president as you will likely find. And when you right wing extremists try to portray him as everything from a commie to the anti-Christ ... it only makes y'all look really, really goofy.
Just a head's up.-

pc251 year, 1 month ago
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the rational 80 percenters? Goppy please stop the spin the guy won 53% of the vote and when you factor out the estimated 2% voter fraud for Obama he won 51% of the popular vote...his actions and his policies are starting to prove what we said all along about this guy.....he promised everything to everyone and all the lemmings bought it.
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"Personally, what I'm most looking forward to from the Barack Obama administration is a return to Values, a respect for Social Justice, Honesty, Rational Respect for Science, and an end to perverse grand experiment with Ideologically Driven Governance."
get out your telescope Galileo because you are going to be searching for a long time.........-
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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You are one loony fellow.
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Here's some questions for you RedRiver. Have you ever been to a library? Have you ever pondered a question with equal measure of open mindedness and rational objectivity?
Have you ever formulated a thought that wasn't outlined for you by Rush Limbaugh?
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Endoscopy1 year, 1 month ago
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Goppy
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What you super libs do not understand that the people who listen to Rush and any other talk show host listen to them because they already agree with what they say not the other way around. I listened to Jerry Springer for a while but I could not take him for very long. The far left philosophy just grates especially since he does what a lot of posters on this site do. Belittles anybody who disagrees with their philosophy.
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dunkirk1 year, 1 month ago
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ROFLMAO, yet when Bush barely got 51% that was a mandate. Obama wins with 7 million more votes and he squeeks by? ROFLMAO, Its always intersting listening to the right when they get their asses handed to them on silver platters for pushing a failed agenda with the excuses.
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wtagg1 year, 1 month ago
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"get out your telescope Galileo because you are going to be searching for a long time........."
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Ironically, you would have needed the same telescope or possibly the Hubble, had McCain won.
I'm not sure factoring in alleged fraud is a particularly strong argument foundation, considering the elections of 2000 and 2004. Even by your own statement, Obama would not have lost. Can the same be said for the winner in 2000 and 2004? -
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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See, pc, your partisanship is so severe, you assume others are as partisan as you are.
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When I say the rational 80 percenters ... I didn't lay claim that that figure was dedicated to supporters of Barack Obama. But as usual, my Right Wing Propellerites choose to argue with what I DON'T say. (Y'all do this so consistently, I've often wondered if y'all aren't carrying on some simultaneous conversation in a different dimension.)
Look, pc - in my mind, I was loosely breaking it down this way:
10 percenters Right, ... Rush Limbaugh ditto heads, GW lovers.
10 percenters Left, ... the Kumbayahers, Truthers.
40 percent mainstream Right.
40 percent mainstream Left.
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I consider myself 40 percent mainstream left. That's because of my history of voting Republican. In fact, as I've often mentioned, I was hoping that John McCain was nominated in 2000. I would happily have voted for him then. I saw him as being someone who could save the Republican Party from self destruction.
It is true that, since Newt Gingrich redefined the Modern Republican party, I've found very little reason to vote Republican. But I would LIKE to. I try to vote for the person, not the party. But look, many Modern Republicans actually FLAUNT their Moral Vacancy with their persistent support for defrocked economic theories such as Trickle Down economics.
What you call lemmings are the Rational 80 percent ... the centrist left, who weighed Obama and supported him ... and the centrist right, who recognized that the extreme lazzaie faire of the Modern Republican simply cannot be reconciled with a global marketplace. -
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slate1 year, 1 month ago
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Goppy1 year, 1 month ago
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Again ... I've not said that those who voted for McCain are NOT rational.
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YOU are infering that.
I'm claiming that there is in this country 10 percent nutty right ... and 10 percent nutty left.
Although, you could infer that I believe pc25 is part of the 10 percent nutty right. -

Will13131 year, 1 month ago
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365 - 173 electoral votes is not 10 points.. the GOP as McCain said on Leno was taken to the woodshed.....
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yet an interesting fact.. even in states that elected dem senators that had GOP governors up for re-election.. not one GOP governor was ousted.. why....
because they tend to be fiscally conservative and save money.. but centurist on the social issues...
that won't fly with the national party until they realize they don't need or WANT the flat earthers... the fringe right who want to return to the 18th century..-
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Will13131 year, 1 month ago
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obviously neither can you.. because the President of the United States is elected by ELECTORAL VOTE...
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again you show just how ignorant you are...
read the Constitution and get back to me on that..
by your standard Gore should have been President.. tell me idiot when did he serve..
MORON..
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toph19731 year, 1 month ago
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Hmmm, Sort of like ignoring the facts about Bush? Lest us not forget whgo it was that voted a traitor into office twice. Now that's a huge fact to ignore.
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No one wants facts. If they did then Ron Paul would be our president elect. But it would seem as if the populace is not ready for Change. And because of it our country is worse off, -

CRYMTYPHON1 year, 1 month ago
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Wolfie whines: "Nobody wanted any facts regarding Obama ".
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At the height of the election, Mr. Wolf had 3 large storage units filled with his book 'Fun facts about Obama' co-authored with Pc25.
You could learn about Michelle's crazy spitting rants, or how Obama's books were too-well written to have been written by Obama,
- and then there were over 200 pages of Obama pictures showing him without a flag-pin.
Chapters 5,6,7 and 8 were dedicated to forensic doubts about his birth certificate.
It should have been a great holiday item but rather too heavy for a stocking stuffer, and it smelled bad no matter how thickly it was wrapped.
I hear Pc25 and Wolf are now suing each other; but that is a rumour. You can't trust rumours unless you can trust the person who passs them on; - and trustworthy people don't pass on rumours .
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jsgreen1 year, 1 month ago
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This country have got a long ways to go but I believe President elect Barack Obama is really determine to put the best interest for this country. Many of you that re voted for President George w Bush the second time have let him got this country to where it is today. Now we all are hurting and do you think he or the Vise President care, no! But a grate majority still think on the racial line. I look at what J E Hoover did to the blacks when he was president and later became FBI director. He used his position to promoted a lot of racial hated in his position and underlined supported the KKK. He was so hard press against the late Martin Luther King and use the law position to his advantage. He really was a racial criminal but never was punish for his crime. Now we got a government build name in his honor J. E. Hoover FBI office. We all paid taxes and some of that money went toward that center. A lot of our taxes dollars have been spend in honor of people that were cruel. And the government really owe a lot of money taken and used from Blacks. Their is so much HATE in this country and other foreign countries know and will be watching. We are found on IN GOD WE TRUST and justice for all.
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ibstilyn1 year, 1 month ago
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I agree with the gist of what you are saying..with some minor corrections. HERBERT Hoover was the president--J. Edgar Hoover is NO RELATION to him. Herbert Hoover (August 10, 1874 – October 20, 1964) J Edgar Hoover (January 1, 1895 – May 2, 1972).
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And neither one invented the vacuum cleaner , although both did suck for various reasons-

slate1 year, 1 month ago
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This country have got a long ways to go but I believe President elect Barack Obama is really determine to put the best interest for this country
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I thinnk you are right about that. Although I think rvery president starts with those sorts of good intentions when they are elected. All we can do now is support him and see what happens, then as now question what his actual action over promises made to get the job.-

HannibalBarca1 year, 1 month ago
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What I see that happens is kind of like what Paulsen said about the bailout,,,facts change as time goes on so will a situation.
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Obama and McC made statements on what they would do if elected; but those points are subject to what this present admin has in the works which they know nothing about at the time.
Now Obama is being let in on secret dealings that are in the works, which may very well change what he has proposed and we will never know will we.
In a year from now, we will see what Obama is all about as he will have to carry on some of this admins proposals, try and get out of some or just axe them, then get on with his plan.
Kind of like JFK getting elected only to find that the Bay of Pigs policy was past the planning stage and into preparation, all from a previous admin, he inherited it and it was not to his liking, but at the same time he couldn't just axe it,,,,,what he did was a half hearted attempt that ended in a fiasco.
Will Obama have a similar policy to deal with ? and I don't mean militarily though it is not a rule out. -
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slate1 year, 1 month ago
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As opposed to your 100% on the side far left views I suppose? That's the problem with the far left and far right they think only thier view is correct and anything else is hate.
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I've seen some fairly hateful and frankly childish things said by you in this very thread. Go look at what you posted above where I posted "Hateful Vitriol?" under it You are not only anti freedom of expression you are hypocritical as well as bad at math considering you can't figure out that I don't take the radical conservative side 99% of the time. In fact I'm conservative but far from being radical. You're just upset because I don't agree with your view. -

slate1 year, 1 month ago
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If you are looking for a buddy that agrees with you on every topic, I suggest you look for those that agree with you all the time. There are plenty of people of that ilk here. Once you decide to not be hateful and vitriolic in your posts (as you are many times), then maybe you can ask the same of others.
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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To understand this, you have to know that the Clinton administration was run by the zionist "Democratic Leadership Council" who controlled our foreign policy, especially in the mideast. There are as many "israel-firsters" in the democratic party as in the GOP and they are trying hard to ensure a takeover of the foreign policy Obama administration. If you oppose military imperialism, especially fighting wars for israel in the mideast, then you need to start protesting loudly to Obama.
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20 Hawks, Clintonites and Neocons to Watch for in Obama's White House
U.S. policy is not about one individual, and no matter how much faith people place in President-elect Barack Obama, the policies he enacts will be fruit of a tree with many roots. Among them: his personal politics and views, the disastrous realities his administration will inherit, and, of course, unpredictable future crises. But the best immediate indicator of what an Obama administration might look like can be found in the people he surrounds himself with and who he appoints to his Cabinet. And, frankly, when it comes to foreign policy, it is not looking good.
....Even more disturbing, several of the individuals at the center of Obama's transition and emerging foreign policy teams were top players in creating and implementing foreign policies that would pave the way for projects eventually carried out under the Bush/Cheney administration. With their assistance, Obama has already charted out several hawkish stances. Among them:
-- His plan to escalate the war in Afghanistan;
-- An Iraq plan that could turn into a downsized and rebranded occupation that keeps U.S. forces in Iraq for the foreseeable future;
-- His labeling of Iran's Revolutionary Guard as a "terrorist organization;"
-- His pledge to use unilateral force inside of Pakistan to defend U.S. interests;
-- His position, presented before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), that Jerusalem "must remain undivided" -- a remark that infuriated Palestinian officials and which he later attempted to reframe;
-- His plan to continue the War on Drugs, a backdoor U.S. counterinsurgency campaign in Central and Latin America;
-- His refusal to "rule out" using Blackwater and other armed private forces in U.S. war zones, despite previously introducing legislation to regulate these companies and bring them under U.S. law.-

hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Obama did not arrive at these positions in a vacuum. They were carefully crafted in consultation with his foreign policy team. While the verdict is still out on a few people, many members of his inner foreign policy circle -- including some who have received or are bound to receive Cabinet posts -- supported the invasion and occupation of Iraq. Some promoted the myth that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. A few have worked with the neoconservative Project for the New American Century, whose radical agenda was adopted by the Bush/Cheney administration. And most have proven track records of supporting or implementing militaristic, offensive U.S. foreign policy. "After a masterful campaign, Barack Obama seems headed toward some fateful mistakes as he assembles his administration by heeding the advice of Washington's Democratic insider community, a collective group that represents little 'change you can believe in,'" notes veteran journalist Robert Parry, the former Associated Press and Newsweek reporter who broke many of the stories in the Iran-Contra scandal in the 1980s....
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.... As news breaks and speculation abounds about cabinet appointments, here are 20 people to watch as Obama builds the team who will shape U.S. foreign policy for at least four years:
Joe Biden - .... his role in the invasion and occupation of Iraq stands out. Biden is not just one more Democratic lawmaker who now calls his vote to authorize the use of force in Iraq "mistaken;" Biden was actually an important facilitator of the war.....
Rahm Emanuel - .... Emanuel is a hard-line supporter of Israel's "targeted assassination" policy and actually volunteered to work with the Israeli Army during the 1991 Gulf War. He is close to the right-wing Democratic Leadership Council and was the only member of the Illinois Democratic delegation in the Congress to vote for the invasion of Iraq. Unlike many of his colleagues, Emanuel still defends his vote. As chair of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee in 2006, Emanuel promoted the campaigns of 22 candidates, only one of who supported a swift withdrawal from Iraq, and denied crucial Party funding to anti-war candidates.....-

hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Richard Holbrooke - .... Among the many violent policies he helped implement and enforce was the U.S.-backed Indonesian genocide in East Timor. Holbrooke was an Assistant Secretary of State in the late 1970s at the height of the slaughter and was the point man on East Timor ... Like many in Obama's foreign policy circle, Holbrooke also supported the Iraq war...
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Dennis Ross - Ross has been a staunch supporter of Israel and has fanned the flames for a more hostile stance toward Iran. As the lead U.S. negotiator between Israel and numerous Arab nations under Clinton, Ross' team acted, in the words of one U.S. official who worked under him, as "Israel's lawyer.".... After the Clinton White House, Ross worked for the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, a hawkish pro-Israel think tank, and for FOX News, where he repeatedly pressed for war against Iraq....
Martin Indyk - Indyk spent years working for AIPAC and served as Clinton's ambassador to Israel and Assistant Secretary of State for Near East Affairs, while also playing a major role in developing U.S. policy toward Iraq and Iran. In addition to his work for the U.S. government, he has worked for the Israeli government and with PNAC.
"Barack Obama has painted himself into a corner by appealing to the most hard-line, pro-Israel elements in this country," Ali Abunimah, founder of ElectronicInifada.net, recently told Amy Goodman of Democracy Now!, describing Indyk and Dennis Ross as "two of the most pro-Israel officials from the Clinton era, who are totally distrusted by Palestinians and others across the Middle East, because they're seen as lifelong advocates for Israeli positions."...
Ivo H. Daalder - ..... Like other Obama advisors, he has worked with the Project for the New American Century and signed a 2005 letter from PNAC to Congressional leaders, calling for an increase in U.S. ground troops in Iraq and beyond....
Michele Flournoy - .... She currently runs the Center for a New American Security, a center-right think-tank.... Flournoy has also worked with the neoconservative Project for the New American Century.
.... Obama does have a chance to change the mindset that got us into war. More significantly, he has a popular mandate to forcefully challenge the militaristic, hawkish tradition of modern U.S. foreign policy. But that work would begin by bringing on board people who would challenge this tradition, not those who have been complicit in creating it and are bound to continue advancing it....
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/11/21/20-hawks...
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hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Beware The Obama Hype: What "Change" In America Really Means
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Returning to Texas, I am struck again by those so unlike the redneck stereotype, in spite of the burden of a form of brainwashing placed on most Americans from a tender age: that theirs is the most superior society in the history of the world, and all means are justified, including the spilling of copious blood, in maintaining that superiority.
That is the subtext of Barack Obama's "oratory". He says he wants to build up US military power; and he threatens to ignite a new war in Pakistan, killing yet more brown-skinned people. That will bring tears, too. Unlike those on election night, these other tears will be unseen in Chicago and London. This is not to doubt the sincerity of much of the response to Obama's election, which happened not because of the unction that has passed for news reporting from America since 4 November (e.g. "liberal Americans smiled and the world smiled with them") but for the same reasons that millions of angry emails were sent to the White House and Congress when the "bailout" of Wall Street was revealed, and because most Americans are fed up with war.
... Yes, Obama's election is historic, a symbol of great change to many. But it is equally true that the American elite has grown adept at using the black middle and management class. The courageous Martin Luther King recognised this when he linked the human rights of black Americans with the human rights of the Vietnamese, then being slaughtered by a liberal Democratic administration. And he was shot. In striking contrast, a young black major serving in Vietnam, Colin Powell, was used to "investigate" and whitewash the infamous My Lai massacre. As Bush's secretary of state, Powell was often described as a "liberal" and was considered ideal to lie to the United Nations about Iraq's non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Condaleezza Rice, lauded as a successful black woman, has worked assiduously to deny the Palestinians justice.
...Obama's first two crucial appointments represent a denial of the wishes of his supporters on the principal issues on which they voted. The vice-president-elect, Joe Biden, is a proud warmaker and Zionist. Rahm Emanuel, who is to be the all-important White House chief of staff, is a fervent "neoliberal" devoted to the doctrine that led to the present economic collapse and impoverishment of millions. He is also an "Israel-first" Zionist who served in the Israeli army and opposes meaningful justice for the Palestinians – an injustice that is at the root of Muslim people's loathing of the United States and the spawning of jihadism.
These "ideals", which Obama will swear to uphold, have overseen, since 1945, the destruction of 50 governments, including democracies, and 30 popular liberation movements, causing the deaths of countless men, women and children....
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/11/13/beware-t... -

hyperbola1 year, 1 month ago
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Barack Obama will be the catalyst for a new movement
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Barack Obama will be the catalyst for a new movement, away from false hope and false promises, not because he will deliver to the people of this country anything worthwhile, but because he won’t. This will be the final nail in the coffin of our corporatist society.
...There are so many so-called “progressives” that have believed that it was the Bush Republican neo-cons that have gotten us where we are. This is wishful thinking. The Democratic 110th Congress did nothing but rubber-stamp every bill that was put before it. Democrats have blindly caved in to fear of being called “anti-patriotic” if they voted against the meaningless war in Iraq. They put their political fortunes ahead of their conscience at every opportunity, from Pelosi taking impeachment “off the table” to voting for the new FISA bill that granted telecoms immunity from illegally working with the executive branch to illegally eavesdrop on US citizens. They passed every military budget and went along with almost every Bush attack on our civil liberties. How one could possibly imagine that Barack Obama or any other Democrat could undo the damage they helped to create is just wishful thinking.
The time for real change is now. I must tell you that the change we seek will not come from the President-Elect, but from the disgust and anger we will all feel when corporate interests and the Military Industrial Complex (corporate welfare) dominate the Democrats agenda. War will not end; it will be moved to different theaters.
Now the time has come to actually put up or shut up. Mr. Obama has already chosen a Democratic interventionist in Joe Biden, a man who never saw a war he didn’t like. The self-proclaimed Zionist that has stood with AIPAC since its inception, a man that ranks right up there with Bush when it comes to Iran and Palestine. Obama has also kowtowed to the Israeli’s, and there doesn’t seem to be any hope for those that want America to look at both sides of the tensions in the Middle East. We will blindly follow the Israelis as far as they wish to take us, for their own self-interests. -

tschrnywolf1 year, 1 month ago
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REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE NY TIMES SAYS, PRESIDENT ELECT OBAMA SAID FRANKLY THAT HE WANTED TO RESHIFT OUR TROOPS TO AFGHANIST AND CONCENTRATE OUR FORCES WHERE THEY WERE NEEDED MOST AND USE THEM EFFECTIVELY :l) TO END THE WAR. TODAY ALSO THE US REACHED A W/DRAWAL OR TIMETABLE TO WITHDRAW FROM IRAQ :)
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HE WAS SO STEREOTYPED BY HIS COMPETITORS THAT THEY ENDED UP BELIEVING THEIR OWN LIES. THE NY TIMES ENDORSED HILLARY. SO IT IS NOT SURPRISING THAT MAGAZINE IS STILL SLINGING MUD AGAINST HIM. :( NEWSWEEK IS A MUCH BETTER PUBLICATION.
AS FOR PEACEKNIKS, THEY MUST HAVE PATIENCE, COMPLEX FOREIGN WARS CANNOT BE STOPPED IN A WEEK. PRESIDENT ELECT HAS NOT BEEN SWORN IN YET!A PREMATURE PEACE IS LIKELY TO COLLAPSE AND OUR ARMY WOULD NEED TO RETURN AGAIN TO A PANDEMONIUM.
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