Corporate Monsters Ravage America »
Posted By Spadecaller 7 months, 2 weeks ago in Political NewsThe Scoop du Jour is an audio message commentary and picture pertaining to the corporate heads seeking bailouts. Why should Americans tolerate bailouts that will do nothing but enable a dysfunctional system?
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Spadecaller
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Spadecaller7 months, 2 weeks ago
The failure to protect and preserve the working class and labor in this nation has a lot to do with our failing economy. When Wall street was wallowing in luxury, main street in America had been suffering throughout this nation for several years. Our present debacle did not just happen over night. A new aristocracy has risen in this nation and it must be looked at carefully.
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Among the many people that have contributed to this downfall of the American economy is George W. Bush. His attendance at the latest international summit regarding this world recession speaks volumes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mnyD8Zv1vY-
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Endoscopy7 months, 2 weeks ago
Poor spade caller. Ranting about the car companies.
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But they don't care about their workers. Very high pay and benefits. That does not count. Workers that lose their jobs due to changes in the company get a year with pay to find another job. That does not count either. Yep they just hate their workers.
They have problems selling their cars. Why? Cafe standards, emission standards, crash avoidance standards, crash worthiness standards, post crash standards, theft prevention standards, inspection standards, defect and noncompliance standards, uniform tire quality grading standards, bumper standards, etc.
Could these force the design to have a very high cost. Of course not. Liberals never dream that rules have a cost associated with them. They like to make laws that other people have to pay for.
Then just like the last time there was a gas crunch, over night small cars were at a premium. I had bought a Pinto for my father and a couple years later sold it for 1/3 more than I paid for it. That was under the Carter gas crunch. Same thing then. All of a sudden the big cars would not sell. It takes about three years to retool to go to different cars. In March the big cars were what people wanted. Then as gas went up they wanted the small cars. Of course the car companies were supposed to look three years into the future and know that the phase over to small cars would occur.
The only acceptable solution that it seems that spadecaller wants is for the government to take over the companies and be in charge of the companies. Socialism at work.Great concept spadecaller.
Amazing in his post he blames Bush for the financial problems. Lets just ignore that the Republicans tried to fix Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac and the Democrats went ballistic in their defense. Who did we have to bail out early on when the finance crunch started? Of course they will not take credit for changing the banking laws in 1992 at the behest of ACORN going into effect in 1995. Housing took a very large drop and all the financial institutions that held Mortgage papers lost 30% or more since 2006. Zap, all that money gone. Crash came the financial institutions. But Bush was to blame for that. LOL
Keep trying spadecaller.
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chevydog7 months, 1 week ago
Actually, I think Endo has some points. Just to address stuff I'm familiar with:
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When I got out of college, my first car was a stripped down Ford Fairlane ; it cost me $2900. Now the average starting salary for my profession (can't speak to wages) has gone up by factor of about 5.5 since then. Factor up the car cost by that and you come to about $16,000. Now I don't know about Fords (they don't enter much into my thinking now), but around here the $16,000 will get you some pretty decent cars. They're certainly not presteigous--more low-end, just like the Fairlane was. And truth be told, they're better cars than my Fairlane was--in terms of mileage, durability, safety, handling, and almost anything else you care to name.
Endo gets all chuffed about regs. There were alot; and they drove auto engineers to distraction. No doubt they added to costs; there's a price for everything. My take on regs is that they don't happen if a company/industry is taking into account all the factors the public deems important. If they don't, the public puts pressure on the govt., who puts pressure on the industry. Pressure group democracy, if you would. Would some of these changes have happened without regs? One can argue endlessly; but I tend to think mostly not.
There also have been changes in manufacturing. Instead of endless, pricey option packages (both reg-related and not), you have a much more standard car now. Standardization lets you do all sorts of stuff better--design, manufacture, support, etc.
Companies have changed too, along with exec styles and compensation. Coming out of the 1960's, the favored style was a conglomerate. In theory, these are designed to offset market weakness in one area with strength in another. With these, your second level of exec was the star of the show. No CEO could be expert in everything. Now the style is to have single-line, more focused companies. No more "Baby Bootee Heavy Armaments Division". CEOs have to be more specialized and focused. Which means they cost more to get and maintain. But I do agree with spade that things have gotten out of hand.
There is basically only one choice that upper managment makes--things will sorta stay the same or things will sorta change. Everything else springs from that. As an engineer, I'm trained to mostly believe the first while allowing for the second. Methinks that a number of managers have gotten too attached to the first; and it's come back to bite them in the b*tt. A perfectly human thing to do IMHO; if it wasn't that they're hired to plan for change and bumps in the road, I could excuse it. In the end, I come down to thinking that there's no excuse to not do the job you were paid (well) to do.
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Newperson7 months, 2 weeks ago
Yes it is good stuff. But where do we draw the line,I don't want to see no one lose there jobs
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lord knows it's hard enough makeing it with one.
And what about the poor folks thats worked there hole lives. They need to retire. But they can't.
Unless they are rich they will have to work till they die. Sorry guys.it is a good story. Bail out hell i don't know? NP -
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Spadecaller7 months, 2 weeks ago
Newperson
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Put the money into saving those employees who will lose their jobs and homes, restructure the companies after filing chap 11, and get new CEOs ready to make these industries competitive.
They are using fear to force Americans to stand by silently, while we pay these creeps to do the same lousy job that got us here in the first place. -
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sumptuousdigs7 months, 2 weeks ago
Newperson, I was as uncomfortable watching Robert Wagoner get a grilling as I used to be trying to pry $20 out of my old man...Lol!
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He would ask the same questions: "What is it for?, How am I going to use it? When am I going to pay him back?, Can I even pay him back?"
I would sit there and stammer and fidget ...trying every way not to tell him: "Well you see, there's this girl..."
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Spadecaller7 months, 2 weeks ago
Time to throw Paulson and Bernanke out of Washington. Neither are trustworthy fiduciaries.
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Spadecaller7 months, 2 weeks ago
Treasury Secretary Paulson now says they won't use the $700 billion blank check from taxpayers to buy up bad mortgages and get them off the books of failing banks, and INSTEAD will buy equity and encourage them to use the cash to start lending again. WHAT A CROCK!
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MESSAGE FOR THE PAULSON AND BERNANKE:
If it's just a liquidity problem, that is what the Federal Reserve is for.
STOP PEEING ON OUR LEGS To TELL US IT'S RAINING OUT. -
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canadianrancher577 months, 2 weeks ago
I have only a few minutes right now so I have not listened to the commetary but this whole bailout topic just drives me nuts. Right now I'm mad at corporations, executives, unions and even labor that is not protected by unions.
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My loan manager at the bank has 200 clients and for looking after these people she is very well paid, the people who provide me with farm supplies all receive wages that are middle class. The people who haul my cattle seem to be doing ok, those who work even in the cattle auction market are protected by minimun wage laws. None of the groups of people I have mentioned supply all that I need for farming yet all receive enough to survive on. If I divide the amount of beef people consume into what I produce I am suppling beef for close to 3000 people and yet last year my income was around $22000 and that was with help from some government programs. People always say that because I am a private business that is a chance that I take but most others who run private business are competing against only those who are in our country or even in their own city.
My point of all this is it is very hard for me to find any sympathy for those who do not have to compete in the world market. Maybe I'm just bitter about things but even the government programs do not cover a persons cost of living, they are set up to cover 80 percent of our costs of farming.
I will check back in later to listen and check out more of the comments. -
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Jeboba7 months, 1 week ago
Great clip! Haaar! Spade, looks like the drive-by negheads are getting you as usual. You know, the ones that neg you without even reading your post? I have to admit I am sorely tempted on many occassions to do the same to Endoscopy but in fairness, I do read his posts. Unfortunately, I've never been able to agree with him so I do end up giving him a neg!
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PainGoddess7 months, 2 weeks ago
Band-Aids don't work for long. The first round of money did not come with any a strings attached. Any more given out should.The govt dosen't have the oversight to ensure the banks spend according to the plan.
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Great story.. -
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CHAM7 months, 2 weeks ago
Thanks Spadecaller. Our Government is really out of control. I have been writing about what I call the "Shadow Government" for the last two or three years.
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To me the Shadow Government is that group of people who really run our Government and they are not the people we elect. Some of them are not even citizens of the United States. Those we elect have chosen to be bought and to join the corruption.
We have to clean out the vermin and parasites who infest Washington. These people need to be prosecuted to the fullest letter of the law. Unfortunately they are the law.
This Bailout was just another scam of the SG and it absolutely worked well for them. They got $700 Billion with no strings attached, no oversight, and no transparency. It is the height of criminal activity because they convinced the people that to fail to pay their ransom will cause the people more grief.
The MOI of the SG is fear and intimidation. They also blend in Nationalism, Patriotism, and Religion. They are despicable.-
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Jeboba7 months, 1 week ago
Absolutely! Here's an interesting site outlining just who contributes to the shadow government. Pretty scarey bunch!
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http://www.whale.to/b/shadow.html
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Spadecaller7 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm sure there are kick backs that are timed to skirt detection just as Cheney and Bush have done with Haliburton and the Carlyle Group among other profiteers from the war, who absconded with our "missing" billions.
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sumptuousdigs7 months, 2 weeks ago
not2needy.
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Or a few tens of millions?
I'm not sure about a formal shape for the SG. I think it's a loose confederation comprised of the "old boy" network, class ties, ME oil tycoons, (that I suspect really despise Islam), a smattering of the new, but big money, wanna-bes, and some with the real old world monarchist mindset. People and countries are just pawns.
I really believe many CEOs sweat corporate bills they way I sweat mine. The difference is their stake is the game, mine, my life. Many in upper management, and in politics didn't come from old money, and may have some fading memories of more humble struggles. I'm not too sure about the idle rich though. All I know is...if you're in a bathtub full of sharks, you'd better be a shark.
The love of money (power) for it's own sake is as zealous as any religious crusade, and equally as devastating and merciless.
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ningyo7 months, 2 weeks ago
its the UAW thats out of control--the money paid for corporate jets and ceo pay is a drop in the bucket compared to the ridiculous union contracts..time for GM to go bankrupt and get out from under 60 yrs of UAW thugs..same for the NEA..but these are big barryO voter blocks..we''l see if he represents the whole country or his pacs..so far its all obama crony capitalism
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flyonthewallzz7 months, 2 weeks ago
Hello ningyo:
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I do not know you, and really have no right to guess at how you think.
But my guess is that you think that it is totally cool for banks, oil and pharmaceutical companies to jack up prices to whatever the market will bear.
Once again: I do not think it is fair to be thinking what I think you think, but for the sake of an argument I will. And will happily stand corrected.
The UAW made their deals, they earned what the market will bear, and they did not pull the rug out from under us like $4.00 a gallon gas, and the pension plans represented a obligation very much like a home loan. They have renegotiated and taken a big beating.
Before the renegotiation it basically costs about 5% more to buy a union built car, or about $1.300.
I am one of those dudes that have only bought American cars.
I do not understand how someone can begrudge the wages of a worker and defend the profits of a corporation if there appears to be an excess.
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Endoscopy7 months, 2 weeks ago
Why is profit in order to make a living called greed? That is the liberal rant. Lets just tax those rich companies and cut their profits. Idiots. Companies never pay taxes. They are just a means to pass the tax along to their customers. Taxes are just a cost of doing business and are figured as costs when figuring out what to charge for their goods and services.
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So libs raise the taxes of oil companies and pay for it at the gas pump. Great concept. Exxon Mobile this past year has an abysmal 8+% profit even though the oil prices were high. Their stock dropped because of it. So put a cork in it.
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CHAM7 months, 2 weeks ago
N2n. Paulsen and Bernanke is a good one. But how about the $20 Billion that went to Lehman and Goldman & Sachs? Of tht 20 Billion, 13.2 Billion has been earmarked to give bonuses to employees. How about them apples?
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ningyo. You're worried about Obama? Where have you been for the last eight years? Since Bush came in this country has run up an increase of long Term Liabilities of $40 Trillion, that's 40,000 billion for god's sake. That increase carried the total to $60 Trillion, and the increase for Bush's eight years is double what all the Presidents in the Unite States History had run up - combined?
Were you worried about Bush and the boys? If not, why not?
sumptuous. I believe it to be a loose Federation. It is made up of powerful people, not all of who live in, nor are citizens of the United States.
Their foundation is the modern day Neoconservative - our Modern Day Neo-Cons. They form the backbone of the former PNAC, the current AEI, and a myriad of other "Think Tanks".
Their focus is increasing their power and position. With the success of these two things come the Material goods ( money, property, influence, political persuasion ). They are Globalists and they have as part of their MOI the creation of strife and conflict to prepare their world for enhancing the ability to reap the two important things - power and position.
They have no allegiance to any country and have no moral or ethical baggage - they just believe that people are chattel for use in profit taking.-
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Jeboba7 months, 1 week ago
For those of you not familiar with the PNAC, Project for The New American Century, go to this link to their own website and read. Pay particular attention to WHO the founders are. It's pretty scarey stuff. THEY have been largely responsibile for our demise.
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http://www.newamericancentury.org/
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Bkumm7 months, 2 weeks ago
Let's be clear, here. The problem is not the corporations, but rather the consumer. I'm not suggesting that the corporations are not blood sucking scumbags, but ultimately it is the American consumer that is to blame.
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When the American consumer was still buying SUV's when gas was $3.00 a gallon, that's a problem. And the car companies were complicit in this behavior as well. They didn't produce or prepare cars that were efficient when they should have.
I don't know why this is such a shocker. These bastards didn't do it in the 70's and they didn't do it now when they should have.
It's a crying shame and the American worker is going to take it in the shorts because of it.-
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Jeboba7 months, 1 week ago
The automakers produced what people would buy. They tried many times over the past 40 years to produce some small economical cars and they were sales failures. Even the foreign automakers had to come out with SUV's to satisfy the American buyer.
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Yes, you are right. WE are largely to blame. BUT, why are the foreign automakers doing OK and we're not? Because American automakers can't produce a profit and still compete with the foreigns. Why? because of the exhorbitant labor costs brought on by the unions and the obscene pay scales of top management.
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CHAM7 months, 2 weeks ago
Bkumm. I don't think it is the consumer - at least not of much importance. The price of gas has nothing to do with supply and demand and nothing to do with cost.
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The price of gas is based on what the consumer will pay, nothing more nothing less. And the price in different countries may be unrealistic, for example I was in England a few years ago when gas was a dollar and change here and close to $5 there. But the cost at the well head was the same for the U S and England. Refineries were shared so there was no cost differential there. Distribution costs to the country were about equal so what caused the disparity?
Basically it was taxes, both hidden and at the pump. The marginal difference allowing for taxes was what the market would bear.
Yes we do consume a lot with our automobiles, probably half of all our oil purchases go for autos. What difference the SUV's would make is minimal.
The real difference between British and American cars is the size of the engine. The Brits told me that their standard auto was a lawn mower machine ( a joke for them but a small engine (nevertheless ) on a mini chassis as opposed to a wholly unnecessary 300 HP engine to tote a couple of people around. And of course our freeways allowed faster travel which is a gas burner. -
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wtagg7 months, 2 weeks ago
"Exxon Mobile this past year has an abysmal 8+% profit even though the oil prices were high."
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Were you the actuary that arrived at this value?
http://finance.aol.com/financials/exxon-mobil-corp...
Go ahead, work your magic. Try to make 8%. Who provides your data? -
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Albmore7 months, 2 weeks ago
I cannot watch anymore! America how have you become such cry babies? How have you became so blind. I agree Bush will not go down in history as one of our best presidents. On the other hand its been really easy for most of you to blame Bush on every problem our nation faces instead of putting blame where it should be and one of those places is on ourselves.
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We as a nation have ignored the facts. Obama is seen as this savior who will come in and wave a magic wand and everything will be okay. Well that is how Hitler got into power! He promised to take care of every aspect of your lives as long as you would just follow him.
Americas problem lay on Americans. How many of us bought homes we new we should have never became credit for? I look back to the Carter years when I was a child, but remember well the oil crunch. Is anyone going to tell me we as Americans did anything to change? These car manufactors are not to blame alone. They provided products that the consumer quickly bought up as soon as the crunch was gone. Instead of realizing then what an effect oil has on our lives we just continue to live on for the moment and the day. Now that problems have arised again we give the auto makers and Bush the blame.
We save for nothing. Why does the average US citizen have more debt then any in the world. Why have the credit card companies been able to charge such high rates. Because they know the average I GOT TO HAVE IT American cannot wait and save and will take the credit to have it in the moment if they can afford it or not.
The sad thing is we have already passed this on to the younger BUY BUY BUY generation. What we haven't passed on is an education and work ethics. Most of our childern will not survive a major crisis in the US. We have ignored the family and followed for our lust for luxuary.
At the same time we have held our leaders to no accountability to our nation. As I look at this election I could not believe how much the so called media and the nation ignored so many facts about Obama. By the way I am not republican. Change , Change , Change. What happened to facts, facts , facts? When, where and how? Look at who will be in the new staff. Mostly the old Clinton staff again. This is change. Let me remind you it was a republican congress when Clinton was president and if it was not for our computer boom the economy would not had been so stong.
Until Americans change their way of living, until America sees once again that the family and morals and living inside their means are important, until Americans get off their butts and get involved and hold our leaders accountable for their actions there will be NO change in America. Bush is not to blame for all our problems nor is Obama the answer to all of them. Americans look into the mirror and ask yourselves what did I do to get where I am and what can I do to solve this problem.-
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Jeboba7 months, 1 week ago
Gotta agree that a lot of the blame goes to the guy in the mirror.
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However, you are condemning a man who ran on a platform of FACTS, figures, plans against a man who only told you why his opponent was bad and not what he would do.
The man isn't even president yet and you condemn him. You have the President-elect doomed to failure before he is even sworn in.
For that, I say the problem remains the man in YOUR mirror. What will you say to eat your own words in a couple of years when he makes progress? Will you still listen to the drive-by bloviators on FOX and Limbaugh, etc?
C'mon, use your mind for something constructive for a change. Get behind this new guy until he proves himself unworthy!
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Republicrat1844Comment removed: User banned.
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HMMace7 months, 1 week ago
HAVING BEEN AN AUTO WORKER--IN A DEPTARTMENT OF 400-- MEN--WE HAD NO LESS THAN 17--YES SEVENTEEN--SUPERINTENDANTS...THERE WERE 35 ELECRICIANS--(ME)-- AND WE HAD -4- FOUR--SUPERINTENDANTS..AND FIVE SUPERVISORS- (FOREMEN)...
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WHEN EVER SOMEONES BROTHER IN LAW ( OR NEIGHBOR)GOT LAID OFF--OF FIRED FROM HIS JOB--HE BECAME A SUPERVISOR AT OUR COMPANY..
THAT IS IF- HIS NEIGHBORE WAS A SUPERVISOR AT OUR COMPANY..
TOP HEAVY--YOU BET---
JAPAN PAYS ALL HEALTH COSTS OF ALL ITS PEOPLE..THATS A LEG UP AGAINST THE COMPETITION --RIGHT?>. MAYBE A LITTLE HELP FOR OUR CAR COMPANYS ISN'T SUCH A BAD IDEA...MAYBE THE TAXPAYERS SHOULD OWN SOME OF OUR COMPANYS--THEN IT WOULD BE IN OUR INTERREST TO JUST --
---BUY AMERICAN------
AND THEY WOULD COST LESS THAN IMPORTED..-
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Jeboba7 months, 1 week ago
We need to force our industries to look at the Japanese business model which WE GAVE THEM AFTER WORLD WAR II!
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