Comments for Corporate Monsters Ravage America »
Posted By Spadecaller 1 year ago in Political NewsThe Scoop du Jour is an audio message commentary and picture pertaining to the corporate heads seeking bailouts. Why should Americans tolerate bailouts that will do nothing but enable a dysfunctional system?
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Spadecaller1 year ago
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The failure to protect and preserve the working class and labor in this nation has a lot to do with our failing economy. When Wall street was wallowing in luxury, main street in America had been suffering throughout this nation for several years. Our present debacle did not just happen over night. A new aristocracy has risen in this nation and it must be looked at carefully.
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Among the many people that have contributed to this downfall of the American economy is George W. Bush. His attendance at the latest international summit regarding this world recession speaks volumes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mnyD8Zv1vY-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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Poor spade caller. Ranting about the car companies.
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But they don't care about their workers. Very high pay and benefits. That does not count. Workers that lose their jobs due to changes in the company get a year with pay to find another job. That does not count either. Yep they just hate their workers.
They have problems selling their cars. Why? Cafe standards, emission standards, crash avoidance standards, crash worthiness standards, post crash standards, theft prevention standards, inspection standards, defect and noncompliance standards, uniform tire quality grading standards, bumper standards, etc.
Could these force the design to have a very high cost. Of course not. Liberals never dream that rules have a cost associated with them. They like to make laws that other people have to pay for.
Then just like the last time there was a gas crunch, over night small cars were at a premium. I had bought a Pinto for my father and a couple years later sold it for 1/3 more than I paid for it. That was under the Carter gas crunch. Same thing then. All of a sudden the big cars would not sell. It takes about three years to retool to go to different cars. In March the big cars were what people wanted. Then as gas went up they wanted the small cars. Of course the car companies were supposed to look three years into the future and know that the phase over to small cars would occur.
The only acceptable solution that it seems that spadecaller wants is for the government to take over the companies and be in charge of the companies. Socialism at work.Great concept spadecaller.
Amazing in his post he blames Bush for the financial problems. Lets just ignore that the Republicans tried to fix Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac and the Democrats went ballistic in their defense. Who did we have to bail out early on when the finance crunch started? Of course they will not take credit for changing the banking laws in 1992 at the behest of ACORN going into effect in 1995. Housing took a very large drop and all the financial institutions that held Mortgage papers lost 30% or more since 2006. Zap, all that money gone. Crash came the financial institutions. But Bush was to blame for that. LOL
Keep trying spadecaller.-
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the_heat1 year ago
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Yup, an average of almost $75/hour for the auto union workers, plus all of the standards they have to meet. I guess this is one of those cases where the deregulation of the Bush administration is at fault...kind of like the gov't forcing lenders to count unemployment income as income when they are considering a loan, or face being sued for discrimination.
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I guess thats why they say liberalism is a mental disorder... -
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wtagg1 year ago
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"They have problems selling their cars. Why? Cafe standards, emission standards, crash avoidance standards, crash worthiness standards, post crash standards, theft prevention standards, inspection standards, defect and noncompliance standards, uniform tire quality grading standards, bumper standards, etc."
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Ironic that the foreign manufacturers operating here don't seem to have the same problem meeting the requirements and selling cars for more money the the US manufacturers. Why are the foreign manufacturers always ahead of the curve as far as the desires of the US public?
I guess Acorn gets the credit then for the housing and banking successes of the 90's and early this decade.
You never respond because your talk show entertainer icon hasn't provided you the answers.-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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I would normally agree with you but have you actually checked out the new Chevy Malibu? It's got a lot of quality in it. It gets 30+ mpg and is priced about the same as the most popular Toyota Camry.
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Unfortunately, the Malibu came along way too late. The foreign cars had already eclipsed the American made junkers and it's pretty hard to turn a loaded tanker around quick enough to avoid a collision.
As for me, I've driven Fords for the past 10 years. Let me tell you, they have been the most reliable autos I have EVER owned and I've had a BUNCH of foreign cars. My wife's 1999 Mustang has 100,000 miles on it and we haven't so much as replaced a fan belt!
Another part of the problem is the 'glamour' of driving a foreign car! People were led to believe our American cars were junk back during a time that they were indeed junk! Somehow, the American auto industry was never able to correct that perception even though they started building some pretty damned good cars.
Finally, why did Detroit concentrate on the big gas guzzling SUV's and ignore the compact, fuel-efficient models? BECAUSE YOU WOULD NOT BUY THE COMPACTS! Detroit had to build what would sell. Did you ever notice that even Toyota and Nissan kept coming out with bigger SUV's, big Pickup trucks, etc.?
We, the American consumers, are largely to blame although the greed of the top executives and the unions in the American auto industry are probably the largest reason for the fall.
What is the answer? Do you need a new car? GO BUY AN AMERICAN CAR FOR GAWDS SAKE!-
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wtagg1 year ago
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"BECAUSE YOU WOULD NOT BUY THE COMPACTS!"
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Maybe this would be better as:
BECAUSE YOU WOULD NOT BUY THE(IR) COMPACTS!
Why? The foreign manufacturers had no real problem selling theirs.
"We, the American consumers, are largely to blame although the greed of the top executives and the unions in the American auto industry are probably the largest reason for the fall."
I can sort of understand what you are trying to say here, but you contradict yourself. Either the largely or largest has to go. Can't have both.
Hard to find an American made car anymore. Quite frankly, you can find more of a Subaru, Toyota, or Honda made in the USA than many of the Ford, GM, or Chrysler offerings.
A general reflection upon the entire industry. There have been great strides in technology in almost every aspect of car production sans one. That is gas mileage. You can do things that weren't even considered possible 20 years ago, but we are currently getting the same mileage as 20 years ago. The funny thing is that we are getting bombarded by advertising telling us how good that mileage is, that we were getting 20 years ago.
Why?-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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Sorry for the largely vs. largest comment. Guess I need to brush up on my semantics. Thanks for your copy-writer corrections about THE(IR) compacts although the sentence starts with citing Detroit. Oh well.
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However, your closing comment about the same gas mileage as 20 years ago doesn't make sense to me. I don't remember having a car 20 years ago that would get 30mpg. I lived in Europe in the 70's and drove VW's, Mercedes, Peugeots, and Ctroens. NONE of them got 30mpg either. All of my American cars got WAY less than 30mpg.
The new Chevy malibu is a nice car and gets 30-33mpg highway. It's not a compact either. I've said for the past two years WHY isn't GM pushing the gas mileage angle harder? All the commercials for cars in the past few years have been about how FAST and POWERFUL they are. I guess the marketing departments figured out we were more interested in speed than economy.-
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wtagg1 year ago
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I am comparing fleet to fleet average mpg. If you want to compare the gas mileage of comparable cars from 1988 to 2008, I think there are plenty of examples. Let's take a Honda Civic:
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1988 4 cyl, 1.5l, Auto -> 26 - city 33 - highway
2008 4 cyl, 1.8l, Auto -> 25 - city 36 - highway
Trying to compare apples to apples is a bit hard due to the variance in the product. Since you mentioned a GM product.
1988 Corsica 4 cyl, 2.0l, Auto -> 21 - city 28 - highway
1988 Malibu 4 cyl, 2.4l, Auto -> 22 - city 30 - highway
I'm using the EPA estimates, including the redo's for the older cars to keep the testing values as close to apples/apples as possible.
Honestly, do you see 20 years of progress? Especially considering the change from 1977 to 1984 for fleet mileage. During that period, it went up about 75%. Of course, Carter mandated that gas mileage needed to improve. Reagan revoked that mandate in the mid 80's.
Maybe instead of a bailout, the government should reward manufacturers for improved mileage. Get a subsidy for each model getting over 40 mpg. Get 2X subsidy for any model getting over 50 mpg. Get 3x subsidy for any suv getting over 40 mpg.
We should reward success.
Oh, the Honda Civic CR-X got over 50 mpg highway in 1986.
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miklkit1 year ago
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Those contracts were made when times were good. I've voted to give myself a pay cut. Maybe they will too. On the other hand, you have to go down through six layers of management to find someone who makes less than the CEO of Mercedes-Benz. Will they lead by example? Of course not!
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During the gas crunches of Nixon and Reagan(not Carter) there were plenty of American made small cars. By the late 70's Chrysler made almost nothing but small front wheel drive cars. Ford introduced the Pinto in what, 1971? In 1974 you couldn't get a Mustang with a V8.
As for your hero dumbya, you have seen this national debt chart before. You republicons have killed the goose that layed your golden eggs, and now you are trying to blame someone,anyone, else for your own stupidity.
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/faq.html -
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ADAGUY1 year ago
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Maybe there is more to our problems that the auto industry? try going to wal mart, and finding anything made in America. Remember this is the largest retailer in the world.
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Free trade and Republican greed got us where we are now. It will take many years at the current rate to recover from the Reagan and Bush administrations.-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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YOU and everyone else is responsible for the offshore buying of goods. We good ole Americans are a bunch of cheap bastards. WE won't pay the price for American made goods. Why are American made goods too expensive for us? ONE WORD - UNIONS!
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Jeboba1 year ago
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YOU keep trying endo! You seem to conveniently omit the fact that the foreign car makers building cars at factories in the U.S. ALSO HAVE TO MEET THE SAME STANDARDS AND THEY ARE DOING JUST FINE!
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Why the difference? Their executives are held to higher standards and organized labor has been voted DOWN by the employees in most cases. Why did the workers vote labor down? Because the companies treat them GREAT and the unions would just screw it up for them.
So next time you go off on a rant, tell us the whole story, not just your lopsided view of the world!
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chevydog1 year ago
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Actually, I think Endo has some points. Just to address stuff I'm familiar with:
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When I got out of college, my first car was a stripped down Ford Fairlane ; it cost me $2900. Now the average starting salary for my profession (can't speak to wages) has gone up by factor of about 5.5 since then. Factor up the car cost by that and you come to about $16,000. Now I don't know about Fords (they don't enter much into my thinking now), but around here the $16,000 will get you some pretty decent cars. They're certainly not presteigous--more low-end, just like the Fairlane was. And truth be told, they're better cars than my Fairlane was--in terms of mileage, durability, safety, handling, and almost anything else you care to name.
Endo gets all chuffed about regs. There were alot; and they drove auto engineers to distraction. No doubt they added to costs; there's a price for everything. My take on regs is that they don't happen if a company/industry is taking into account all the factors the public deems important. If they don't, the public puts pressure on the govt., who puts pressure on the industry. Pressure group democracy, if you would. Would some of these changes have happened without regs? One can argue endlessly; but I tend to think mostly not.
There also have been changes in manufacturing. Instead of endless, pricey option packages (both reg-related and not), you have a much more standard car now. Standardization lets you do all sorts of stuff better--design, manufacture, support, etc.
Companies have changed too, along with exec styles and compensation. Coming out of the 1960's, the favored style was a conglomerate. In theory, these are designed to offset market weakness in one area with strength in another. With these, your second level of exec was the star of the show. No CEO could be expert in everything. Now the style is to have single-line, more focused companies. No more "Baby Bootee Heavy Armaments Division". CEOs have to be more specialized and focused. Which means they cost more to get and maintain. But I do agree with spade that things have gotten out of hand.
There is basically only one choice that upper managment makes--things will sorta stay the same or things will sorta change. Everything else springs from that. As an engineer, I'm trained to mostly believe the first while allowing for the second. Methinks that a number of managers have gotten too attached to the first; and it's come back to bite them in the b*tt. A perfectly human thing to do IMHO; if it wasn't that they're hired to plan for change and bumps in the road, I could excuse it. In the end, I come down to thinking that there's no excuse to not do the job you were paid (well) to do. -
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Newperson1 year ago
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Yes it is good stuff. But where do we draw the line,I don't want to see no one lose there jobs
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lord knows it's hard enough makeing it with one.
And what about the poor folks thats worked there hole lives. They need to retire. But they can't.
Unless they are rich they will have to work till they die. Sorry guys.it is a good story. Bail out hell i don't know? NP -
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Spadecaller1 year ago
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Newperson
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Put the money into saving those employees who will lose their jobs and homes, restructure the companies after filing chap 11, and get new CEOs ready to make these industries competitive.
They are using fear to force Americans to stand by silently, while we pay these creeps to do the same lousy job that got us here in the first place. -
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sumptuousdigs1 year ago
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Newperson, I was as uncomfortable watching Robert Wagoner get a grilling as I used to be trying to pry $20 out of my old man...Lol!
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He would ask the same questions: "What is it for?, How am I going to use it? When am I going to pay him back?, Can I even pay him back?"
I would sit there and stammer and fidget ...trying every way not to tell him: "Well you see, there's this girl..."
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Spadecaller1 year ago
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Treasury Secretary Paulson now says they won't use the $700 billion blank check from taxpayers to buy up bad mortgages and get them off the books of failing banks, and INSTEAD will buy equity and encourage them to use the cash to start lending again. WHAT A CROCK!
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MESSAGE FOR THE PAULSON AND BERNANKE:
If it's just a liquidity problem, that is what the Federal Reserve is for.
STOP PEEING ON OUR LEGS To TELL US IT'S RAINING OUT.-
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Spadecaller1 year ago
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Endos Copy:
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Here's one comment regarding your rude and personal attacks:
You know little to nothing about my education and work experience and are not in a position to evaluate my intelligence. You are speaking from the wrong orifice as usual. Grow up.-
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Natureboy1 year ago
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"You are speaking from the wrong orifice as usual. Grow up."
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In order for Endoscopy to stop speaking from the wrong orifice, he must first emerge from it. That would challenge his identity on a fundamental level, as he would no longer be a 24/7 self-inflicted endoscopy.
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wtagg1 year ago
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You haven't addressed the points spade made specifically.
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I doubt if he could do worse than the experts we are relying upon at the moment.
My suggestion would be to take all the money back and tell them all to suffer the consequences of their risky choices. No one made them do anything. If you believe so, prove it.
Good luck with that. -
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Jeboba1 year ago
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Endo, we are all ears! Apparently you are an expert on fixing the financial system. PLEASE share it with us so we can pass it along to our congress men and women! PLEASE, we're waiting! Hurry! No time to waste!
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Please Endo, help us save our country! PLEASE!!! Oh, I think I'm going to cry. -
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quackpot1 year ago
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It does not take a genius to know that you are being ripped off by the ex-wall street gang of Paulson et al.
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Paulson's perspective is that of a Wall Street CEO. He is quite willing to spend OUR dollars to help HIS buddies first.
To make it plain, he is ripping you off, endo.-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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BRAVO! Paulson being in charge is like the fox in hen house! Of course he's going to bail out his rich buddies and the average American be damned. That is his culture. That is the Republican culture. That is the Bush culture. That is the neo-con culture. He has been brainwashed along with the rest of them. He simply doesn't know any better.
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Well we now have a new President-Elect that DOES know better and we had all better give him our support and at least give him a chance. If you continue to bash him, we will go nowhere! To do otherwise says you are just happy as hell with the way things are now.
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canadianrancher571 year ago
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I have only a few minutes right now so I have not listened to the commetary but this whole bailout topic just drives me nuts. Right now I'm mad at corporations, executives, unions and even labor that is not protected by unions.
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My loan manager at the bank has 200 clients and for looking after these people she is very well paid, the people who provide me with farm supplies all receive wages that are middle class. The people who haul my cattle seem to be doing ok, those who work even in the cattle auction market are protected by minimun wage laws. None of the groups of people I have mentioned supply all that I need for farming yet all receive enough to survive on. If I divide the amount of beef people consume into what I produce I am suppling beef for close to 3000 people and yet last year my income was around $22000 and that was with help from some government programs. People always say that because I am a private business that is a chance that I take but most others who run private business are competing against only those who are in our country or even in their own city.
My point of all this is it is very hard for me to find any sympathy for those who do not have to compete in the world market. Maybe I'm just bitter about things but even the government programs do not cover a persons cost of living, they are set up to cover 80 percent of our costs of farming.
I will check back in later to listen and check out more of the comments. -
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Spadecaller1 year ago
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http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?vide...
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Jeboba1 year ago
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Great clip! Haaar! Spade, looks like the drive-by negheads are getting you as usual. You know, the ones that neg you without even reading your post? I have to admit I am sorely tempted on many occassions to do the same to Endoscopy but in fairness, I do read his posts. Unfortunately, I've never been able to agree with him so I do end up giving him a neg!
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CHAM1 year ago
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Thanks Spadecaller. Our Government is really out of control. I have been writing about what I call the "Shadow Government" for the last two or three years.
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To me the Shadow Government is that group of people who really run our Government and they are not the people we elect. Some of them are not even citizens of the United States. Those we elect have chosen to be bought and to join the corruption.
We have to clean out the vermin and parasites who infest Washington. These people need to be prosecuted to the fullest letter of the law. Unfortunately they are the law.
This Bailout was just another scam of the SG and it absolutely worked well for them. They got $700 Billion with no strings attached, no oversight, and no transparency. It is the height of criminal activity because they convinced the people that to fail to pay their ransom will cause the people more grief.
The MOI of the SG is fear and intimidation. They also blend in Nationalism, Patriotism, and Religion. They are despicable.-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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Absolutely! Here's an interesting site outlining just who contributes to the shadow government. Pretty scarey bunch!
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http://www.whale.to/b/shadow.html
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sumptuousdigs1 year ago
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not2needy.
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Or a few tens of millions?
I'm not sure about a formal shape for the SG. I think it's a loose confederation comprised of the "old boy" network, class ties, ME oil tycoons, (that I suspect really despise Islam), a smattering of the new, but big money, wanna-bes, and some with the real old world monarchist mindset. People and countries are just pawns.
I really believe many CEOs sweat corporate bills they way I sweat mine. The difference is their stake is the game, mine, my life. Many in upper management, and in politics didn't come from old money, and may have some fading memories of more humble struggles. I'm not too sure about the idle rich though. All I know is...if you're in a bathtub full of sharks, you'd better be a shark.
The love of money (power) for it's own sake is as zealous as any religious crusade, and equally as devastating and merciless.-
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flyonthewallzz1 year ago
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I am sitting here at my Luddite computer.
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Once again I can not appreciate Spadecallers efforts. (Crap)
I am thinking about Bonnie and Clyde, and that bulldozer operator in the "Grapes of Wrath". The way he stopped to eat that sandwich, his wife made for him, before he destroyed the home.
There was a time when even criminals that went against the banks where romanticized by folks.
Now we just sit here slack jawed,, Conservatives and liberals alike, as our hard earned treasure is handed over.
No need for Pinkerton's this time, besides they are busy.
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ningyo1 year ago
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its the UAW thats out of control--the money paid for corporate jets and ceo pay is a drop in the bucket compared to the ridiculous union contracts..time for GM to go bankrupt and get out from under 60 yrs of UAW thugs..same for the NEA..but these are big barryO voter blocks..we''l see if he represents the whole country or his pacs..so far its all obama crony capitalism
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flyonthewallzz1 year ago
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Hello ningyo:
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I do not know you, and really have no right to guess at how you think.
But my guess is that you think that it is totally cool for banks, oil and pharmaceutical companies to jack up prices to whatever the market will bear.
Once again: I do not think it is fair to be thinking what I think you think, but for the sake of an argument I will. And will happily stand corrected.
The UAW made their deals, they earned what the market will bear, and they did not pull the rug out from under us like $4.00 a gallon gas, and the pension plans represented a obligation very much like a home loan. They have renegotiated and taken a big beating.
Before the renegotiation it basically costs about 5% more to buy a union built car, or about $1.300.
I am one of those dudes that have only bought American cars.
I do not understand how someone can begrudge the wages of a worker and defend the profits of a corporation if there appears to be an excess.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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ROTFLMAO
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There is the classic class warfare concept. All companies are just trying to gouge the public. Such ignorance. Since when are the companies you cited all monopolies? The concept of capitalism has no meaning to you. As long as each industry has several companies selling the same or very similar goods the competition keeps the prices low as the profit making will allow. Foolish people like you always ignore that little concept. Why??
Ford, Chrysler and GM compete with each other and all of the foreign car companies. They are forced to keep their prices down. You seem to ignore that these companies were running a deficit for a while. You rant about their excess profits when they had NO PROFITS. Try again.-
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flyonthewallzz1 year ago
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Hi Endoscopy:
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First I would like to apologies if my earlier comment about “pugnacious” offended you.
I have a close and long time friend who has two pugs and the picture from your avatar stirred up the remark.
Just a point of clarification: I did not accuse the automakers of gouging the public. I do think they adhered to an archaic business model and seemed to think our government would continue to protect them no matter how bad their decisions where. Google the 25% tariff on light trucks, or the rapid depreciation offered to businesses that buy them.
If it makes you feel better to think I am ignorant and foolish___fine.
But I do believe that the Banks, Oil and pharmaceutical and healthcare industry are gouging us!
That is my opinion and I am sticking to it. -
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ADAGUY1 year ago
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"All companies are just trying to gouge the public. Such ignorance."
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Stop and ask yourself, how many presidents and vice presidents does GM have. Are you aware that the CEO alone makes as much as 450 auto workers? Now how many workers does it take to equal the pay of the entire corporate staff of GM?
Again you can look at the point brought by the NY Senator when he asked the auto exec. who were begging congress for a handout, "How many of you flew here on corporate jets?"
Union wages today are not near as high as you may think. A lot of the cost of building a car comes from the pensions being paid out to retirees. This will be reduced dramatically in the next 5 years.
Like it or not, the lack of Tariffs, and price gouging in the energy sector got us here.
There is absolutely no way in hell that you can tell me the fluctuation in crude oil prices which we have seen in the last 8 months is normal. This market has been manipulated, and only a fool would think otherwise.
Stop and ask yourself, how can oil go from 60 dollars to 140 dollars and back down to 50 dollars in 8 months?
MARKET MANIPULATION! -
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Jeboba1 year ago
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The EXCESS is in the compensation for the top 1% of the employees of American business, not just the auto industry. The EXCESS is the rediculous wages and benefits that have been gouged out of American business by the unions.
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You're right about no profits. There's nothing left when the buzzards in management and the unions get through with picking over the carcass. I say get rid of the unions, roll back wages, fire the upper management and give them a good but reasonable wage. Then MAYBE there can be some profits once again and MAYBE we can bring back some jobs from overseas. .... MAYBE. Unfortunately, the neo-conservative mindset rewards greed at the top and the little guy be damned.
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Jeboba1 year ago
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I could agree with you to some extent. At one time, the unions were necessary. However, in the last 40 years, they have gotten out of control and their workers make obscene pay and benefits for the skillsets they possess. It has come time for us to roll back these rediculous wages demanded by the unions (while their administrators get richer and richer) and return our industries to competitive entities. If we don't, then we will continue to produce less and less and less in this country.
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Why is it do you suppose that we buy more and more and more that is made offshore? Because American business has priced itself OUT of business because of the exhorbitant costs brought on by the labor unions!
Now, for a surprise, I am a Democrat but I am no lover of unions!
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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Why is profit in order to make a living called greed? That is the liberal rant. Lets just tax those rich companies and cut their profits. Idiots. Companies never pay taxes. They are just a means to pass the tax along to their customers. Taxes are just a cost of doing business and are figured as costs when figuring out what to charge for their goods and services.
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So libs raise the taxes of oil companies and pay for it at the gas pump. Great concept. Exxon Mobile this past year has an abysmal 8+% profit even though the oil prices were high. Their stock dropped because of it. So put a cork in it.-
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wtagg1 year ago
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"Exxon Mobile this past year has an abysmal 8+% profit even though the oil prices were high."
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Were you the actuary that arrived at this value?
http://finance.aol.com/financials/exxon-mobil-corp...
Go ahead, work your magic. Try to make 8%. Who provides your data?-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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Endo lives in the wonderland of his mind, bolstered by Limbaugh, Hannity, and the other liars and haters.
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There's nothing wrong with profits. However, the norm for a good corporate return is 3-5%. Exxon-mobil made almost 11% profit on billions and billions of dollars! THAT is greed. THAT is ripping us off. THAT is obscene!-
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wtagg1 year ago
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Yes, I am aware of the reliable news sources of endo.
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That's 11% as directly reported. That doesn't really included excessive write downs of things that you and I can't possibly consider in our lifestyles. I wonder how many country club memberships, jets, pilot salaries, penthouse suites, retreats, etc... are included in the expenses.
Of course, endo may come back and say that is only 3% difference. I would counter that the value is 37.5% wrong, at minimum. I love numbers. I can make them say anything.
The real irony is the subsidies they receive from the federal government.
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CHAM1 year ago
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N2n. Paulsen and Bernanke is a good one. But how about the $20 Billion that went to Lehman and Goldman & Sachs? Of tht 20 Billion, 13.2 Billion has been earmarked to give bonuses to employees. How about them apples?
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ningyo. You're worried about Obama? Where have you been for the last eight years? Since Bush came in this country has run up an increase of long Term Liabilities of $40 Trillion, that's 40,000 billion for god's sake. That increase carried the total to $60 Trillion, and the increase for Bush's eight years is double what all the Presidents in the Unite States History had run up - combined?
Were you worried about Bush and the boys? If not, why not?
sumptuous. I believe it to be a loose Federation. It is made up of powerful people, not all of who live in, nor are citizens of the United States.
Their foundation is the modern day Neoconservative - our Modern Day Neo-Cons. They form the backbone of the former PNAC, the current AEI, and a myriad of other "Think Tanks".
Their focus is increasing their power and position. With the success of these two things come the Material goods ( money, property, influence, political persuasion ). They are Globalists and they have as part of their MOI the creation of strife and conflict to prepare their world for enhancing the ability to reap the two important things - power and position.
They have no allegiance to any country and have no moral or ethical baggage - they just believe that people are chattel for use in profit taking.-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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For those of you not familiar with the PNAC, Project for The New American Century, go to this link to their own website and read. Pay particular attention to WHO the founders are. It's pretty scarey stuff. THEY have been largely responsibile for our demise.
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http://www.newamericancentury.org/-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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Here are the founders of the PNAC. LOOK at who they are! THESE are the people that kick started the demise of our great country when they were founded in June of 1997! Reagan didn't finish the job.
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THEY hand picked their little puppet boy G.W. Bush to do their bidding and look what it has gotten us!
Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes
Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle
Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz
Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen
Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz
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Bkumm1 year ago
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Let's be clear, here. The problem is not the corporations, but rather the consumer. I'm not suggesting that the corporations are not blood sucking scumbags, but ultimately it is the American consumer that is to blame.
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When the American consumer was still buying SUV's when gas was $3.00 a gallon, that's a problem. And the car companies were complicit in this behavior as well. They didn't produce or prepare cars that were efficient when they should have.
I don't know why this is such a shocker. These bastards didn't do it in the 70's and they didn't do it now when they should have.
It's a crying shame and the American worker is going to take it in the shorts because of it.-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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The automakers produced what people would buy. They tried many times over the past 40 years to produce some small economical cars and they were sales failures. Even the foreign automakers had to come out with SUV's to satisfy the American buyer.
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Yes, you are right. WE are largely to blame. BUT, why are the foreign automakers doing OK and we're not? Because American automakers can't produce a profit and still compete with the foreigns. Why? because of the exhorbitant labor costs brought on by the unions and the obscene pay scales of top management.
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CHAM1 year ago
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Bkumm. I don't think it is the consumer - at least not of much importance. The price of gas has nothing to do with supply and demand and nothing to do with cost.
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The price of gas is based on what the consumer will pay, nothing more nothing less. And the price in different countries may be unrealistic, for example I was in England a few years ago when gas was a dollar and change here and close to $5 there. But the cost at the well head was the same for the U S and England. Refineries were shared so there was no cost differential there. Distribution costs to the country were about equal so what caused the disparity?
Basically it was taxes, both hidden and at the pump. The marginal difference allowing for taxes was what the market would bear.
Yes we do consume a lot with our automobiles, probably half of all our oil purchases go for autos. What difference the SUV's would make is minimal.
The real difference between British and American cars is the size of the engine. The Brits told me that their standard auto was a lawn mower machine ( a joke for them but a small engine (nevertheless ) on a mini chassis as opposed to a wholly unnecessary 300 HP engine to tote a couple of people around. And of course our freeways allowed faster travel which is a gas burner. -
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wtagg1 year ago
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"Exxon Mobile this past year has an abysmal 8+% profit even though the oil prices were high."
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Were you the actuary that arrived at this value?
http://finance.aol.com/financials/exxon-mobil-corp...
Go ahead, work your magic. Try to make 8%. Who provides your data? -
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Albmore1 year ago
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I cannot watch anymore! America how have you become such cry babies? How have you became so blind. I agree Bush will not go down in history as one of our best presidents. On the other hand its been really easy for most of you to blame Bush on every problem our nation faces instead of putting blame where it should be and one of those places is on ourselves.
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We as a nation have ignored the facts. Obama is seen as this savior who will come in and wave a magic wand and everything will be okay. Well that is how Hitler got into power! He promised to take care of every aspect of your lives as long as you would just follow him.
Americas problem lay on Americans. How many of us bought homes we new we should have never became credit for? I look back to the Carter years when I was a child, but remember well the oil crunch. Is anyone going to tell me we as Americans did anything to change? These car manufactors are not to blame alone. They provided products that the consumer quickly bought up as soon as the crunch was gone. Instead of realizing then what an effect oil has on our lives we just continue to live on for the moment and the day. Now that problems have arised again we give the auto makers and Bush the blame.
We save for nothing. Why does the average US citizen have more debt then any in the world. Why have the credit card companies been able to charge such high rates. Because they know the average I GOT TO HAVE IT American cannot wait and save and will take the credit to have it in the moment if they can afford it or not.
The sad thing is we have already passed this on to the younger BUY BUY BUY generation. What we haven't passed on is an education and work ethics. Most of our childern will not survive a major crisis in the US. We have ignored the family and followed for our lust for luxuary.
At the same time we have held our leaders to no accountability to our nation. As I look at this election I could not believe how much the so called media and the nation ignored so many facts about Obama. By the way I am not republican. Change , Change , Change. What happened to facts, facts , facts? When, where and how? Look at who will be in the new staff. Mostly the old Clinton staff again. This is change. Let me remind you it was a republican congress when Clinton was president and if it was not for our computer boom the economy would not had been so stong.
Until Americans change their way of living, until America sees once again that the family and morals and living inside their means are important, until Americans get off their butts and get involved and hold our leaders accountable for their actions there will be NO change in America. Bush is not to blame for all our problems nor is Obama the answer to all of them. Americans look into the mirror and ask yourselves what did I do to get where I am and what can I do to solve this problem.-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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Gotta agree that a lot of the blame goes to the guy in the mirror.
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However, you are condemning a man who ran on a platform of FACTS, figures, plans against a man who only told you why his opponent was bad and not what he would do.
The man isn't even president yet and you condemn him. You have the President-elect doomed to failure before he is even sworn in.
For that, I say the problem remains the man in YOUR mirror. What will you say to eat your own words in a couple of years when he makes progress? Will you still listen to the drive-by bloviators on FOX and Limbaugh, etc?
C'mon, use your mind for something constructive for a change. Get behind this new guy until he proves himself unworthy!-
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Albmore1 year ago
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Jeboba- Sorry but you sound like one of these follow you blind Obama fans. If you read my staement correctly it does not put down Obama or Bush. I do not care who the president is, NO one man is going to change our country, in the same way no one man (Bush) has destoyed it. Are down fall is a collective effort. Black, white, Atheist, Christian, Jew, rich and poor. Its libs like you that think anyone thinking different must be a Fox news fan and that is what the dems ran this election on.
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Why dont you be honest, do you see anything of change in Obamas choices?I am sorry but Hitlers plan was also to rebuild in innner structure that is where the autobahn in germany came from. Who are building these roads. The government. So we have a bigger government and more workers for the tax payers to pay for.
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Republicrat1844Comment removed: Retracted by user
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tchef1 year ago
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I think that there is a lot of blame here to go around. I salute the congress for sending the auto execs back to Detroit to come up with a plan to turn their company around before we give them money. They need to get together with the unions and all of them CEO right down to the floor sweeper need to make concessions to turn the company around. Our auto makers need to learn to be nimble to survive. This is the second time now that they have been behind the curve when it comes to being able to offer the kinds of cars that this country needs. Toyota, Nissan and the other companies are able to offer the cars needed for a changing market when the market wants them. We need to do the same.
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The Corporate elite in this country have been overcompensated for the work they do. It used to be that if your company was losing money you didn't walk away with huge bonuses. Bonuses should be paid out only when the company is doing well. That's called incentive. If it continues to not do well you get the boot. No golden parachute.
You want to know what's feed class warfare? Its when the company goes broke and I lose my job and end up on unemployment and the CEO walks away with 50 million. -
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CHAM1 year ago
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I have to agree that personal habits of the American public could be better managed by the people themselves. And I think that if we Americans held our elected officials feet to the fire we would be much better off in every aspect of our lives.
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I cannot agree that the personal habits of individual Americans cause the policies of the United States to be detrimental to the public other than as I mentioned - a failure to force elected officials to represent ourselves rather than special interests dominated by the Shadow Government that I so often speak of.
This Globalist Shadow Government sets our policies and milks U S citizens and they do it for one simple reason - we allow it to happen.
We we blame ourselves for this and that, somehow we seem to miss the elephant in the room. That elephant is the Corporate driven Globalist Shadow Government. That is our #1 enemy of the good life. Face up to it and do one thing. Fight back at the ballot box. Bring about a viable third party. Punish political criminal activity. We can throw off their control. -
SandmonsterComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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Natureboy1 year ago
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The Big Three are in trouble because they are not selling cars. It is stupid, on a very basic level, to pay companies billions to NOT sell cars. If you do that, there is no need for the workers to keep their jobs, since there is no need to produce a product in exchange for the $$$.
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You want to "bail out" US auto manufacturers in a meaningful fashion? Pay them 25 billion to design and produce vehicles that cost less than ten grand, run on veggie oil and get a hundred miles per gallon. It can be easily done. Volkswagon built a street-legal and freeway-safe two seater prototype in 2003 that got well over 200 mpg. They never took it into production. "No consumer interest" they claimed.
Or you can pay them 25 billion to replace all of the electric trolleys they had removed from urban centers so many years ago.-
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Natureboy1 year ago
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Really, are we crazy enough to reward failure by paying billions for NOTHING!?!?!
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Screw that. If it is about the workers not going hungry, lets divvy the 25 billion up amongst the agrieved workers, and avoid the middleman. If it's about helping the Big Three through the crisis because nobody's buying cars, issue that 25 billion in tax credits to americans who now drive old polluting junkers, redeemable when they buy a new American-made car.
Again, I must ask, R U Kiddin? I get p!ssed when I put a quarter in the vending machine and get nothing back. You think I would ever be OK with putting 25 BILLION DOLLARS in the wallets of already fat executives without getting anything back? -
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normallysilent1 year ago
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I keep seeing the word bailout thrown around in referance to the LOAN the big three had asked for
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Bailout= gift -you know like we just gave the banks
Loan=something which is to be paid back , possibly even with interest
somehow I fail to see how these are remotely similar. -
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Albmore1 year ago
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You know I see no problems with these salaries if they where tied to preformance, but as we see they are not. Once again though it was the average American supporting these companies by buying these gas drinking cars. Any successful company knows you need to change with the markez demand, but lets be serious it was not until oil prices were rising that America started crying out for better feul efficient cars. We loved the SUV funny how these cars didn't sell well on the European or asian market. Does it seem to you maybe we have all been sleeping way to long. Not just on our cars but on our education, on our foriegn policy. How many Americans couldn't even find Iraq, Iran or Germany on a map? Be honest. It is a time where honesty is needed more than anything in our land.
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I dont care if you a lib, a con, or your color or religious pref. We are all going to fall together unless we change.
I cannot understand with all the big problems facing America there is such an up roar over gay marrage. Isn't our future existance and welfare more important at this point? Why do I see stories on CNN, FOX, and Msnbc about Obamas new dog? I want to hear about what is going on with my future not who fell out of dancing with the stars. Since when have reporters became comedians? I dont care what staion it is every one wants to be a little entertianer. Hey Report and do it bias and do it with the facts on the subjects that matter. We have enough comedy shows to make us laugh!
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