Republicans seek to break U.S. labor »
Posted By Radiofreeeuropa 1 year ago in Political NewsAfter a decade of fictional rules that let the American banking industry become a bigger gamble than Vegas, that house of cards fell not only on us, but around the planet. And now we are stuck dealing with the ripples.
While creating exciting new ways to avoid and ignore regulation and lend money for kids to buy cap guns with no down payment, the leaders of that industry, which produces nothing, filled their pockets, their hands, their shoes and their briefcases with your money before calling for help. And help came.
the Big Three auto CEOs are not so much likeable representatives of their industry. They ride into Washington begging for help in private jets, they make salaries and bonuses that should embarrass them and do embarrass us. When asked if he would consider reducing his salary to $1 while getting federal help, Ford CEO Alan Mulally said “I think I’m OK where I am.” Mr. Mulally’s compensation is $21.7 million. Not a very lovable beggar.
Yet 3-4 million American households rely on the auto industry for their income. The management can rot for all I care, they haven't "earned" a dime. But it's interesting that when Paulson's buddies want you to pay for their pedicures it's unquestionable. Give them whatever they want.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year ago
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lfergie8121 year ago
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Good find RFE. I've been saying all along that the reason that Bush and the Republicans don't want to give the auto industry a loan is to break the unions. They want to reduce everyone to minimum wage and what people don't realize is that if the unions go, even those that don't work for a union will lose wages too. Only the fear of an organized union make the companies pay their employees well because with a large unemployed labor force, the companies will have the upper hand.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year ago
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So if unions are the culprits (they are not), how does one explain this Mr. Romney?
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http://www.aflcio.org/issues/jobseconomy/ceopay.cf...
The UAW cut the new hire payscale to 1/2 of what it was.
But bloated management salaries are staggering. And even as they came in their private jets (burning 20,000 dollars of fuel) to beg for a handout, the CEOs refused to accept responsibility for their industry ills and refused to take pay cuts themselves. After decades of collecting over 20 million dollar salaries plus untold perks and options while steering the companies into losing millions and hundreds of millions quarter after quarter I for one have no sympathy for them.
We can not however rely on foreign car companies entirely, the U.S. must have an industrial base or truly it will go the way of the dodo. U.S. companies all must abandon the idea that their management is worth preposterous sums. They aren't. The arguement has been if we don't pay the top talent whatever they desire, they will go to some other country.
Right...
European management is generally paid much lower, though of course still quite lucrative on the pay scale. this chart breaks down how the pay is allocated...as in Salary, Bonuses and LTIs. The number on the left is the market capitalization of the companies (in billions).
Japans top execs make about a third of their U.S. counterparts.
Workers (as well as execs) in Japan's companies like Toyota are given bonuses and stocks on top of their pay if the company does well.
Here in the US the CEO of Ford is paid 24 million dollars even though year after year he loses millions for the company.
Like the republican culture of corruption in DC, it's time for a change. These people have aptly demonstrated they are not worth the money they are paid, if competent at all. Every Bailout beggar that comes to DC for a handout should have their management fired as a matter of course.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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lfergie8121 year ago
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The problem is with the financial wealth of those CEOs. It would not hurt them if the auto industry failed because they are set for live as it is because they have already made more money than 80% of the people will make in their life time.
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year ago
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More than 2.5 billion dollars a year are spent in Washington DC on lobbying for special "treatment" by those who can afford to pay.
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So any tax tweaks must include closing the loopholes for the wealthiest. You hear republicans claim that corporate taxes are too high, yet over half of U.S. corporations actually pay NO taxes at all thanks to successful lobbying for loopholes.
The myth is exposed here- http://www.alternet.org/workplace/106410/tax_cuts%...
So frankly if the oozing loopholes were closed, and US corporations actually paid their fair share, the tax rate could be dropped for them. But ONLY if they play fair and close the loopholes for the privileged. -
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year ago
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Dick Cheney's Haliburton for instance receives much of it's income from taxpayers providing "privatized" services for the military.
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(the argument was made by Cheney that private companies could do these jobs once included in the military cheaper. With 65.oo hamburgers the norm, I doubt this is true. But when he was S.O.D. for Reagan, Cheney set it up...then became CEO of the company who received the government contracts). Now they hide their income (which originated from our tax dollars) in Abu Dhabi to avoid contributing to their own profiteering.
Seems to me any company receiving taxpayer dollars through government contracts should at least be taxpayers themselves.
Now that may be bad news for the globalists who want our military to buy Chinese planes etc. because they are cheaper.
One must ask in this hyper "security" minded era if that is a good idea. Considering for instance the whole "freedom fries" caper, what if the nitwits decided to wage war on France... they are now supplying the aircraft...can you see how this is dumb?
And how is it the average taxpayer in Britain pays less than the average taxpayer in the U.S. considering they have all that "socialism"? (free education, free healthcare, etc.) How is that possible? Well for one thing their military budget isn't more than the rest of the nations on earth combined. (Ours is). When Bush is finally out of the white house, does anyone see the need to take on the rest of the nations on earth in the battlefield? (All that money and it didn't stop a single guy trying to light his shoe on fire. Or prevent commercial jets from flying into buildings, even the Pentagon without a single plane scrambled.)-
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Georgia501 year ago
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The unions are not innocent. It's not just wages and it's not just new hire wages. It's also cradle-to-grave health benefits and make-work work rules. That said, I agee that management in the auto industry has been way too arrogant and insensitive. Bottom line: Americans are not buying what they produce, and no amount of taxpayer money is going to make Americans want their products.
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I say this as a guy who's been driving a Chrysler product since 1987. Over that span of time, I've had only 3 cars. Most people went through 3 cars merely in the 90s. My experience has been that a well-maintained American car will go the distance. But my experience apparently has not been the norm.
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sumptuousdigs1 year ago
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RFE, you've done your homework (and mine!) on the topic.
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It's a sad spectacle to read posts by those with anti-union sentiments. So often uninformed and angry, they regard GM's problems as the UAW's fault. They rail about a contract they haven't read. This contract has been, and still is hailed by the corporation as "landmark". Similar contracts are in effect with all U S and represented "transplant" companies as well.
The UAW has no say in the product decisions made by the companies, but they had been saying it anyway. "It" being that the companies had to be proactive and start making efficient vehicles.
One thing we did get was a paragraph in former contracts known as "document 40". This gave the operator on the shop floor the ability to call attention to poor manufacturing techniques, parts, or standards, that would negatively effect the quality or safety of the product. Not the worker, but the product. This is indicative of the employees commitment to the customer.
I remember thinking in the late '80s that no one was going to buy the Caprices we were building. They were fat, heavy, and looked like a giant horseshoe crab. I was right. It had a short run, my plant was closed, and I relocated to Texas. My move impacted many of the locals here who were looking forward to jobs for their kin. We all made sacrifices. That contract allowed me to make that sacrifice to keep my job. Those that don't have options like that would rather I didn't, than organize and get their own contracts. Or at least that's how it seems.-
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CRYMTYPHON1 year ago
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To read an authoritative view on a complex subject,
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that ends with Or at least that's how it seems. is to be reminded what sensible honest explanation sounds like.
Thanks, Sumptuousdigs!
Can I ask whether you think the auto companies should get a bailout?
I can't decide; I was listening to Michael Moore, and even he was on both sides.
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sumptuousdigs1 year ago
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The UAW stands for the "United Autmobile, Agricultural Implement, and Aerospace workers". Yep, we built the shuttles, (we didn't design the 'O' rings though). We build aircraft, tractors, trucks, harvesters, space modules, cars, tanks, trains, buses, and trailers. We represent teachers, municipal workers, cops, firemen, hotel and motel employees, etc. You see, unions offer their services in a free market. There is choice. The UAW has had an outstanding record as a leader in competent and productive representation.
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nostalgia1 year ago
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Are you listening to what Democratic leaders in Congress and Obama are saying???
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"prepackaged bankrupcy"
Pelosi is calling it a "restructuring"
Dodd was talking about the government pension guaranteee fund which pays a maximum of $40K per year - it's a sliding scale
Here is one article:
Bailout with a price: Chapter 11 bankruptcy
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5...
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DarkWizard1 year ago
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RFE,
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Thank you for the invite and the interesting article. sumptuousdigs is correct about you doing your homework. sumpy is also correct that most people don’t understand unions; including me. However, I do understand business and economics.
My take:
The Republicans are either just plain stupid or very evil (I’m opting for a 70:30 split). Why is it ok for the financial sector to ask for a $700 billion dollar bailout, without almost any strings attached, the auto industry can't get what amounts to 3.5% of that pie?
The reason I say that withholding money from the Big 3 is either stupid or evil is because, “The sheer scale of the automotive industry is enormous. In the United States, the auto industry is responsible for 6.6 million jobs, which is about 5 percent of all private-sector jobs and nearly 4 percent of Gross Domestic Product. No other single industry is more linked to U.S. manufacturing strength or generates more retail business and employment. The U.S. auto industry purchases 60 percent of all the rubber and about 30 percent of all aluminum, iron and stainless steel used in the United States,” (www.ford.com, 2006).
Now, imagine the collapse of the Big 3 and the ripple effect it would have on an already crumbling economy. I agree that there should be some stipulation as to how the money will make the auto industry economically stronger, but shouldn’t that be a given even with the financial sector? If the Big 3 collapse and this could happen in the next 5 weeks, the economic downward spiral we are in will accelerate and expand geometrically. No bailout plan will be sufficient and Capitalism, as we know it, would cease to exist. I really don’t think anyone can wrap their heads around what that means. Unfortunately, a total collapse may be the only way we can correct bad business practices, bad government policies on said practices, and finally bring justice to those who did understand this possibility and disregarded it because it wasn’t profitable to do so.-
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sumptuousdigs1 year ago
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Well put, DarkWizard.
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The disparity in the deals sought, and deals granted, is a glaring example of miscalculated priorities, in my opinion. The 'squeeze' was applied by the sheer force of immediacy and panic, by our reps, who, I feel, had a gun to their heads. Money is just fancy paper when it has no backing. We've been pushing a lot of that for decades.
A broad description of a union would be the United States, or even better, E Pluribus Unum.
At one time the struggle to organize labor was a violent one. Hence the misuse of the word 'thug" when applied to the wrong party. It would be useful for some to look up the histories behind 'Matewan", Joe Hill, The Battle Of The Overpass, The Haymarket Riot, and countless other incidences that checker American history, before afixing these labels.
I look at our country as a union that is operating under bad management. -
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slate1 year ago
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The Republicans are either just plain stupid or very evil (I’m opting for a 70:30 split). Why is it ok for the financial sector to ask for a $700 billion dollar bailout, without almost any strings attached, the auto industry can't get what amounts to 3.5% of that pie?
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I agree. I think that congrees realized that they made a big mistake and now they won't have the money to bail out everyone that has and will step up to be saved.
Will they bail out the Union jobs but then turn a blind eye to those in the fiels I work in? What about the fast food folks, Plumbers, Carpenter and so on?
I think that if any money is given it should be a loan and I want the financial guys to pay back every cent with interest.
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simonsez1 year ago
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The Federal Government underwrites the entire military industrial complex with enormous amounts of money each year to develop continually more sophisticated weapons, while our enemies use home-made bombs against us. In today's world, how much additional sophistication is necessary?
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The Federal Government subsidizes all sorts of commodities under the guise that these products are necessary and should be protected.
Management and labor are both responsible for the problems in the automotive industry, but we have to help them survive. If we allow them to fail, we are then under the control of foreign sources just as we are for oil. Autos are one of the staples of our country and should not be allowed to disappear.-
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slate1 year ago
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((The Federal Government underwrites the entire military industrial complex with enormous amounts of money each year to develop continually more sophisticated weapons, while our enemies use home-made bombs against us. In today's world, how much additional sophistication is necessary?))
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First of all, the government is charged with protecting us and making sure we have the sopisticated wepons for that defense; since it's not only Iraq that we have to be able to fend off. China and Russia have very modern wepons if you haven't figured that out.
((The Federal Government subsidizes all sorts of commodities under the guise that these products are necessary and should be protected.))
((Management and labor are both responsible for the problems in the automotive industry, but we have to help them survive. If we allow them to fail, we are then under the control of foreign sources just as we are for oil. Autos are one of the staples of our country and should not be allowed to disappear))
On those points, I agree.
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Progressive1 year ago
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Thanks for the invite, RFE. The comments are equally compelling. I have to go with Pelosi on the auto industry bailout; show us the plan before we'll show you the money:
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/11/15/memo-to-... -
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Rick78x1 year ago
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WE HAVE ALLOWED THESE INTERNATIONAL BANKERS REIGN OVER OUR ECONOMY FORGETTING THAT WHOSOEVER SIGNS THE CHECKS OR CREATES THE CURRENCY, RULES. AS A HISTORICAL REMINDER:
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If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
-James Madison (Mmm... Does Taliban, Al Queda and Bin Laden come to mind?)
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies.
-Thomas Jefferson (Welcome Federal Reserve)
For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.
-Thomas Jefferson (Trashing of the 2nd Ammendment of the Constitution perhaps)
I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
-Thomas Jefferson (To those with those minds open and their pockets empty, this speaks for itself)
Have we lived within these historical, wise and timeless principles. NO. Instead we have allowed ourselves to be lulled to sleep with sunday football games and Ipods, playstations and the latest fashion fads, SUV's and credit cards, over-priced houses and fleeting jobs, etc... etc... We don't read unless its a diet menu or a McDonalds billboard. We have degraded into the most lazy, dumbed-down, ignorant, spoiled population on the face of the earth and NOW IT'S TIME TO PAY THE PRICE FOR OUR blind indulgence in trivial pursuits. Good luck and much prayer America --- we're going to need it. If you're looking for blame, look in the mirror!-
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DarkWizard1 year ago
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Rick78x,
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"We have degraded into the most lazy, dumbed-down, ignorant, spoiled population on the face of the earth and NOW IT'S TIME TO PAY THE PRICE FOR OUR blind indulgence in trivial pursuits."
That statement and the correct usage of quotes from our Founding Fathers (I use them myself) gain you my respect and praise. We were warned, we refuse to learn from history, and now we've been dumbed-down and must pay the price. I couldn't agree with you more. But, I believe that there is an upside to all this...getting back to fundamentals which work. I think we will be forced to revisit methodologies we've discarded in favor of ones that "balance the sheets" so to speak. It is time to replace corporate and government pretenders with civil-minded, intelligent “doers.”
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beavith11 year ago
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all i can say about the original post is that the republicans have now become the boogeyman, even in the face of clear democratic majorities.
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we find ourselves in a very weird place.
if the unions get broken, it'll be at the hands of the democrats.-
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DarkWizard1 year ago
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beavith1,
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"all i can say about the original post is that the republicans have now become the boogeyman, even in the face of clear democratic majorities."
"we find ourselves in a very weird place."
"if the unions get broken, it'll be at the hands of the democrats."
1) The Republicans have been the "boogeyman" since Bush decided to attack Iraq and stop pursuing Osama. This was a major shift that caused many to question the logic of this administration and those who support it.
2) You have been in a very "weird place" since the Supreme Court had to claim Bush's presidency and not the electorate.
3) If the unions get broken it will not be at the hands of the Democrats it will be on the hands of your beloved corporate executives who once again have no strategic plan, no business plan, well...no plan for what to do once the $25 billion "loan" runs out; if they even get it.
So, I have a hard time empathizing with your personal predicament as you re-evaluate the differences between true conservatism and the Republican Party's philosophies as they are apparently at odds with one another. -
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jimdoze1 year ago
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It is not either political party that will roll back the UAW. It is simple economics. If they don't voluntarily allow themselves to be competitive, there is no amount of bailout that will save them. The question is... will they blink before there is nothing to blink about?
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Radiofreeeuropa1 year ago
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Well the Democrats by and large have merely said show us a business plan before you get the loan, I am certain President Obama will not allow the industry to fail when he is in the oval office.
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Frankly it certainly isn't all republicans who are against helping the auto industry (Pat Buchanan comes to mind) but Romney has said let them disappear and there is and has been a rather sizable faction who are against labor in general. FTA-You see, if the Republicans can allow GM to fall into bankruptcy, then all the labor contracts are voided and all the pension commitments denied. The federal government will pick up the pension plans after cutting those benefits by as much as 70 percent.
Workers, well, their chance at a living wage must fall for the GOP to be happy, so they would have to accept non-union wages and benefits.
So the trick is that Paulson, Bond and Bush support “expediting” the existing $25 billion set aside for the auto industry, money restricted to new product development. They want to claim that by pushing money the industry can’t spend right now on survival, they are saving the industry, all the while pushing it to bankruptcy.
All simply to destroy American labor.
Understand that for a Global economy to work, global labor must be "equalized".
This means American, Canadian, and European nations who enjoy a relatively high standard of living must compete equitably with Mexican and Chinese labor. Do you really think it's the Mexican and Chinese whose pay scale will be brought up to the standards of the US, Canada, and Europe? You know of course what the alternative is.
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albionperfides1 year ago
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These are the most serious, well informed comments I have read on Propeller: well done. In the UK it's true that we have free healthcare at the point of delivery but we have [gladly] paid some 9.5% of income for this over a working life and this also pays the state pension. Education is free too up to University when tuition and residence costs have to be met. To call this socialism as some in the US do is nonsense. They haven't experienced it and should come and try it for themselves.
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albionperfides1 year ago
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These are the most serious, well informed comments I have read on Propeller: well done. In the UK it's true that we have free healthcare at the point of delivery but we have [gladly] paid some 9.5% of income for this over a working life and this also pays the state pension. Education is free too up to University when tuition and residence costs have to be met. To call this socialism as some in the US do is nonsense. They haven't experienced it and should come and try it for themselves.
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DarkWizard1 year ago
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Tcaros,
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Bush is doing some serious damage by "burrowing" faithful followers of the Neocon idealism into high positions within government agencies which adhere to policies on oil drilling, open lands, scientific studies on climate change, etc. He is also signing off on policies which make it difficult to reverse policies he's implemented and to remove these burrowed individuals. It's much like what the administration did by supplanting judges that didn't follow their Neocon agendas and putting unqualified people in high positions within agencies that followed these agendas.
I think the only way that many of these actions can be reversed legally is through the impeachment process. It must be established that Bush has willfully and knowingly committed crimes against the U.S. Constitution and therefore his pardons and appointments can come under scrutiny. If impeachment is still off-the-table after he leaves office, Obama will have a very difficult time implementing his plans for change.
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k9kssr1 year ago
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Okay, so you all say the UAW/labor doesn't figure into the demise of the auto industry, what does? Is this purely the fault of high CEO salaries and bonuses? What needs to happen, if they are given a bailout/loan, so this doesn't happen again?
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DarkWizard1 year ago
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k9kssr,
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First off, there are never any guarantees that this could "never happen again." One would need a crystal ball to know the perfect path and even then this economic fluctuation may have more to do with natural economic patterns than just the cost of labor or the salaries of CEOs. But, the bubbles being caused that continually grow worse may be alleviated through better understanding of these natural fluctuations, better business practices, and better government oversight.
Right now we are very close to entering an economic crisis which could rival The Great Depression and in many ways be worse because of global implications. Believing that we can get out of this dilemma by following the same methods, and the same people that implementing them in the first place, is pretty much insanity by definition.
The real wealth of this country is in its people. Right now those people are being kicked while they're lying down. The rich will have no more wealth if there is no one to buy their products, make their products, or pay their taxes. Therefore, the rich will have created their own demise. I know it's hard for many to understand the intertwined relationships between labor, management, government, and economic health, but unless a redistribution of wealth occurs quickly, the majority of Americans will be cashing out their 401Ks, emptying their savings and checking, and be standing in soup lines along with former CEOs.
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slate1 year ago
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I thought it was Pelosi and Ried that said they weren't going to give the money. After all they are in the majority and in January they will become the super majority and they, along with Obama will have the purse strings. Let's see what they do and blame them if they decide to not fund the Big Three.
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DarkWizard1 year ago
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slate,
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Believing one's self to be Democrat, Republican, or other may not matter soon. After what has transpired the past 8 years it is obvious that neither major political party is competent enough or willing to make dramatic changes. The economic situation is much, much worse than any of us are being told. Even the heavy-hitters in the financial sector can't get regular investors to follow their lead. You wanna know why? The rich are losing money on bad investments and the middle class is broke! Soon, the government will be broke too! Sure, lots of money will be printed, but you might as well frame each dollar as artwork for the value they'll contain.
We're getting to the point were the only hope may be asking Peabody and Sherman if we can borrow the "Way Back" machine and get a do-over! Of course, the chances of that are about as realistic as Peabody and Sherman...no less.
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Beau78901 year ago
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Here's the thing about the bailout of the financial industry. If banks don't lend to businesses, all business stops moving. It's a sad truth that our economy is based on businesses (as well as consumers) spending more than they can afford.
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With that said, the banks should have gotten money with strict conditions as to how it was spent, and close supervision by the government. But there was none of that. The MBAs in charge of banks saw their greatest potential for profit in buying and merging rather than lending, and that's what they've been doing with the money, rather than lending to business. And it's too late to impose such conditions--unfortunately, much of that money has already been spent.
As for other industries, yes there are large ones with millions of employees, as in Detroit. I haven't done the research, but I'd bet almost every large industry (with the possible exception of the military sector) is suffering these days. I'd also bet that if the percentage of total U.S. jobs at small businesses of under 100 employees were aggregated as one piece of a pie chart along with large industries, the small businesses would make up a significant wedge, of a size in line with those single large industries. And most businesses in this country are having trouble. The government can't give money--conditions or not--to all of them, and I'm not sure any of them deserves or needs help more than others. -
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aliciabc111 year ago
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Do any of you morans who blame the republicans for this so called demise really believe that these brokers, mortgage lenders and business owners are all greedy repubs. If you do think again, there are plenty of greedy dems and hell you just elected one. How the hell on a Senators salary can you buy the house he did. He is just as guilty as the rest. The Dems had control for two years and did nothing to stop it as well as the war that they said they would if elected. So now how do we to believe them now!
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---- A third party comment go green -----
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willottica1 year ago
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How the hell on a Senators salary can you buy the house he did.
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He didn't buy it on a Senator's salary, he bought it from book royalties. In case you were unaware of this, he wrote 2 bestsellers. That tends to earn a guy a little bit of cash. Furthermore, his house isn't THAT expensive. He works; his wife works; both hold advanced degrees and are likely compensated appropriately. -
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