Thanksgiving- A Case for Capitalism »
Posted By Shana4Liberty 11 months, 2 weeks ago in Political News
We all grew up hearing the story of the first Thanksgiving- the deprivation and starvation, the help of the native Americans and the bountiful harvest that marked the first Thanksgiving.
What we rarely hear about is the method of economy the Puritans employed upon reaching the new shore- socialism.
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Shana4Liberty
I'm a stay-at-homeschooling mom of 4 living in central Alabama, but a native of south Texas. Feel free to friend me and send me ...
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Goppy11 months, 2 weeks ago
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I like this story.
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Right Wing Extremists ... especially here on Propeller, drop the word Socialism at every opportunity. To me, what this says is that they have absolutely no idea what Socialism means.
When John McCain ran for President, he gave as one of his motivators, this concept: 'Sacrificing one's own selfish needs for the common good.' One could argue this is the foundation of Socialism.
Socialism is part of the warp and weft of our society. Our Military, our government ... they are true expressions of a kind of Socialism.
Government takes care of every aspect in the lives of our Soldiers, Veterans, Politicians ... and in large part, the wealthiest Americans.
Of course, it's the Modern Republican party is responsible for providing welfare to the wealthy.
Politicians vote themselves a national health care plan modeled on some of the most Socialistic programs from some of the most socialistic nations. But they ensure the REST of America do not participate.
The Common Good ... it's what our nation was founded on.
But over time, greed, self righteous aggression, and deceitfulness - have perverted the notion of the Common Good ... to an Morally Vacant, 'Every Man For Himself' mentality.
What has resulted is Fear, Paranoia, .... and more greed.-
iatcncComment removed: Retracted by user50 Replies
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Poulenc11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Those who rant against socialism will, I suspect, not hesitate to bring their social security checks to the bank. And let's not forget their embrace of Medicare.
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Of course, there are many brands of socialism, some more successful than others. One doesn't have to go for whole-hog collectivism.
A national health care plan would be just the thing--and, it appears, will be. -
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iatcncComment removed: Retracted by user12 Replies
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berkeley11 months, 2 weeks ago
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as the world is is not black and white, human activity can be described many ways. several commenters above define how they are using words, which is most necessary.
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in governor bradford's description, after they divided the land, how did they deal with the sick, or the elderly? did they let them starve?
when you have a neighbor who has a need, how do you respond? this question has nothing to do with "capitalism" or "socialism," but rather what it means to be human.-
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Radiofreeeuropa11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Well said berkeley. Good government adapts to the needs of it's people, who alone grant the right of government to govern.. When roads are needed build roads. When defense is needed, defend. If intervention in economics is needed intervene.
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rimbaud11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Scrooge was a Libertarian, until he woke up on Christmas morning. The Industral Revolution was Libertarian (as still are some industries in Asia), until the new idea of the last century, Socialism, was adopted. It was not until after WW2 that socialized medicine was instituted in England. It was not until the 1970's that the Occupational Safety and Health Act and the Environemntal Protection Act (dreaded government regulation of private business) were instituted in the USA.
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The dreaded Communists, in China, are coming around late to this kind of Socialism.
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bikertrsh11 months, 2 weeks ago
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If Obama and his cabinet can fix this bad economy, which was created mostly by Democrats and some Republicans, I'll suppoort his efforts. But, if he starts meddling in social issues like gun control, property rights and free speech, I'll fight it with any legal means available.
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sumptuousdigs11 months, 2 weeks ago
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I've no comment on the story or the drift of this thread. Today I give thanks that we Americans have, for the most part, remained unscathed by, what many refer to sneeringly as, Class Warfare.
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I spent yesterday preparing to visit my twin daughters. they were in the Dallas area to attend the funeral of their uncle. He was part of the moving up class that had just moved into a mansion he had built for him in an affluent suburb. He committed suicide Friday. No one knows yet, why?
Maybe money wasn't everything. Nor was religion. He was (apparently) a devout Baptist, and a 'pillar' in the church.
That is to explain why the news out of India had escaped my attention until today. I rarely turn the TV on. Yet when I logged onto AOL earlier my senses were assaulted by the latest atrocities in a world gone mad.
We are so fortunate. Many view class warfare as a political concept. The reality is so much deeper. In most of the world it is a food issue. A matter of survival.
How long can we afford to dream that the U S is an island? Are we surrounded by an impenetrable moat? The fact is we live on an island. It is called Earth.
So while we bandy words and thump our chests because we are so right, let us not forget those that have nothing, and get fed food and hope (laced with politically perverted spiritual dogma) by those that are so wrong.-
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sumptuousdigs11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Friends,
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Thank you for your thoughts. Let me say that he wasn't a relative. His sister is the mother to my girls, from a former relationship. While I keep contact with them, I have no real contact with the rest of the family.
I will pass on your thoughts.
The girls will be 10 this Christmas. Their uncle had lived in the area, OK City, for most of his life. He was a bit estranged from the rest of his family. His wife introduced him into a very strict church, and seemed to have a lot of influence on him. When I first heard about this, I got angry. It is a very selfish way to leave loved ones. I only pray that whatever turns up isn't any more damaging.
He wasted his life.
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mmrhe11 months, 2 weeks ago
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"As the US drifts closer and closer to Socialism"
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Where was the author over the past eight years? The largest increase in government since the Great Society goes by but as soon as a Democrat gets elected we're suddenly "drifting" again!-
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Shana4Liberty11 months, 2 weeks ago
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I was railing at Bush for doing this. Who do you think this piece is mostly aimed at? Obama? He hasn't even taken office yet. I don't like Obama's plans for nationalizing health care, but I openly recognize that Bush and his cronies have done more than their fair share of nationalizing our society. I'm just concerned about Obama and the Democrats taking it even farther.
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There's no rule that says you have to like the policies of either party when they're both wrong.
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CHAM11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Shana. Excellent and thought provoking piece. And Gov Bradford did choose self motivation over Socialism. He mentioned Plato and the "Socialist" mindset, but I always mentally saw Plato as the World's first Communist. Some of you who have read him might recall that he stated that the "State" had every right to lie to the citizen for the good of the state.
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One thing I've surely seen in this thread is a common agreement among the majority that both the Republicans and the Democrats are servants of the Capitalists ( What I call the Shadow Government ), something that is very much what I believe. In fact I believed it so strongly that I have called for sending one of the parties to the dustbin of history never again to gain any power. I really believe that would send a message that couldn't be missed by the surviving party. At the same time we would need to bring up a viable new party, a coalition of the Independents. I see this as the only way to take back our country peacefully from the Shadow Government. We need to start that initiative today.
Thanksgiving is a wonderful time for my family. When I was a child it was the time for our family reunion. Each year the reunion was at a different location. Really got to know the extent of the family and meet all my cousins. -
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Radiofreeeuropa11 months, 2 weeks ago
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Unrestrained capitalism eventually puts all money and power in the hands of the very few. Communism centralizes power first, end result = the same, power and fortune in the hands of the few.
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Both are sort of utopian systems that really can't work in the pure form.
What does work is a combination of capitalism and socialism.
A fluidly dynamic system of co-operation between government, industry and citizens working for the common good of all.
But the key is "all"- government assisting only one segment of a population is by design, unfair.
Imagine for a moment my republican friends if business did not have the expense of providing health care. If all citizens were covered in a single payer fashion, how much would that improve their bottom line. Call it socialism if you like, but it may be very good for business. -
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chevydog11 months, 2 weeks ago
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I look at some of the posts and wonder about the power of words. Am I supposed to jump when someone says socialism? Some people seem to think so. Actually, I'm just looking for something that works for myself and my family; and after that for the greatest number of people. If someone calls it socialism, no problemo. Otherwise, no problemo.
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mmrhe11 months, 2 weeks ago
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iatcnc
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Please let us know what you consider "anti-business".
The Democrats get accused of being "anti-business" all the time. Sometimes rightfully so but sometimes because they insist on holding business to the rule of law.
For example, do you believe environmental laws are anti-business because they require additional expense? or Worker's Compensation?
Seems to me there are some very legitimate "anti-business" expenses that citizens should demand from corporations.-
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mmrhe11 months, 2 weeks ago
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What's the answer?
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I trust the Free Market about as much as I do a federal agency in that most corporations are built to generate profit at the expense of anything else including the health and safety of it's workers and/or customers!
Therefore, some regulation is needed and therein lies the rub because there will always be temptation to grease the wheels with bribes etc or the opposite meaning a lethargic, inefficent layer of red tape.
Government MUST act to protect the interest of it's citizens first and foremost.
Look at what the Wall Street lobbyists created with their constant push to "deregulate"! Who was there to look out for the average investor?
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frctm511 months, 2 weeks ago
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Conservatives never tire of beating this dead horse. What this article describes is more akin to communism. Socialism is present in every country in the world to one degree or another. It is a simple recognition that there are some task which are best left to the community rather than the individual. If you have ever driven down a freeway, you support socialism. If you ever used water that came to your house from a collective source and not a well, you support socialism. If you live in the United States and have benefited from any of the infrastructure or institutional services that government provides, and you have whether your realize it or not, you support socialism. That would make all of us socialist unless you are a survivalist who hunts for food and lives out doors. The only argument you can make here is one of degree.
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The time of greatest prosperity for middle class America was between the end of world war two up through 1973. This was the era in which there was less disparity of wealth between rich and poor. Since then, the economy has tripled in size but aside from a few more toys, most middle class people have not seen any tangible gains in their incomes.It takes two bread winners in most households to pay for a house and people work longer hours for less money and have little or no job security. On the flip side, consumer goods are cheaper and technology has filled our homes with all kinds of neat toys that aren't made here but I would argue that it has a social cost. What is missing is a sense of community or common purpose. There is no loyalty or connection between the individual and the society as a whole. I am not saying that there aren't communities in America where people know each other and have communal activities, just that this sort of thing has declined. Virtual communities are growing but real ones are dying. What does it mean to be an American besides getting a house and having a family? If life here is just about how much money you can make and how much stuff you can acquire, that isn't a very lofty idea. We could talk about freedom, choice, mobility. These are all very fine things, but freedom, choice, and mobility that have no destination or higher purpose are meaningless. If there is no higher purpose to these ideas than self gratification, its a rather sad commentary. I believe that healthy communities rally around some common vision or sense of purpose but today there are fewer and fewer venues for expressing this purpose. Even within families, children go their separate ways and run in separate circles and mom and dad who are too busy to spend time with their kids baby sit them with technology. The kids are on face book talking to strangers because they aren't getting enough attention at home. Over zealous individualism is dysfunctional.-
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mmrhe11 months, 2 weeks ago
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The irony of what you describe is that the American people seemed to have been duped into thinking that the income disparity you describe is ok.
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It's Union's fault or welfare's fault that America can't compete anymore.
Meanwhile, executive pay went through the roof for no explicable reason except "We're wort it".
Well guess what, that dog don't hunt anymore!
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coolrayfruge-1311 months, 2 weeks ago
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It doesn't say they had to pay for their land.
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They didn't have to pay someone for the right to have a roof over their head.
It all had to do with having the freedom and right to own your own land,live freely.
Being able to farm and provide without someone financually profiting off the fruits of your labor.
It was the feelin of self worth and acomplishment of being able to provide for yourself ,your family.
Without being dependent on someone else to provide for those needs.
And they traded for things they needed.
I'm sure if most of us had the freedom to live freely,as they did.
Before greedy men controled everything,before money was god.
Alot of us would be happier.
You only have to look at this society to see that capitalism doen't provide that freedom either. -
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