The Catchphrases of Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia on Propeller »
Posted By Spadecaller 11 months, 4 weeks ago in Political NewsThe comments posted on an article that recently became the lead story on Propeller’s front-page indicate a distressing reality; the prevalence of anti-Semitic and Islamophobic commentary is routinely exhibited by some members of Propeller.
The article entitled, “A Tragic End at Chabad House,” posted two days ago expressed the fears and grief that had resulted from the terrorist killings of two local Jewish leaders, Rabbi Holtzberg and his Israeli wife Rivka, who were responsible for running the Chabad House, a Jewish center located in a small community in Mumbai, India. This commentary analyzes the sordid reactions by some members to the posting of this story.
Read Full Story at freewebs.com »
2108 Views Share Story 58 Comments Report
Submitted By:
Spadecaller
Welcome to my profile. About me: I'm an artist of several kinds; from bull to painting. I don't spare too many words. Most ...
RSS Join the Discussion
+ Add CommentShowing 222 of 290 Comments (view all)
-
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
I commend all those members who denounced without qualification the terrorist actions that were responsible for killing the Rabbi and his wife, which was presented in the article two days ago.
Reply
Each and every victim (Jew or non-Jew) of this heinous attack are equally important, but the freedom to share about the trials and tribulations of any people who become victims of hate crimes and terrorism regardless of their religious affiliations or nationality should be received with respect and honor.
If violence were the whole solution to curtailing terrorism, it would have ended centuries ago. We must identify the roots to terrorism, the greed, the vengeance, the bigotry, and the hate that cultivate the attitudes and actions that foster the spread of it.
The poison from which terrorism sprouts are often expressed on these threads. I believe it is imperative for those of us who can see past our personal prejudices to unite, to identify, and denounce those who prefer to spread the hate that fuels terrorism in our world.-
100%
earthlingerer11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Anti-Semitism and islamophobia... two terms which through common use INFER something completely different than what they actually mean. Terms worthy of research into their meanings.
Reply
Semitic... when I think of this term, the first thing that comes to my mind is mesopotamia... basically the area of Iraq from Baghdad to the Persian Gulf. Apparently, if you would be anti-semitic, you would not like, well, ARABS. True, some jewish people are semitic. A minority of jews are semitic. "Anti- Semitic" is a quite misused term. Understanding what this means, one can easily construe through social, economic, and political actions, that the state of Israel has actually adopted anti-semitism as a national cause, as misguided as the "war on drugs" in the US.
Islamophobia? Seems like a coined turkey phrase from hate-radio. At least one easily understands that this refers DIRECTLY to religion, and not a culture, or genetic identity, although it seems to be applied to mainly dark-skinned people from africa, all along the arabian sea to india.
In another time, it might be funny that the two terms seem to be used in the opposite of what they actually mean.
It's so much easier to say that zionism and islamic fundamentalism are like long-lost twin brothers. Neither are based in any rational reality, and the world would be better off without either of them. -
100%
Candida11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Spadecaller,
Reply
I completely agree with you that each human life is equally valuable, whether the person is a Jew, a Muslim, a Christian or someone who doesn't belong anywhere. I also agree that terrorism and violence in general are wrong, no matter who commits them.
I would like to ask you though, whether you will raise your voice next time an article about the suffering of the Palestinians is posted. I don't want to divert the discussion, I know this is not about them, but the people in Gaza are being starved right now. Several articles have been posted recently about them, and I don't remember seeing your name among those who commented. As you, yourself, say, sometimes silence says a lot too. -
50%
hyperbola11 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
This article is a good example of the attempts by certain circles to claim special privileges for a particular religious and/or ethnic group through chants of anti-semitism. Such attempts rely on the ignorance both of those who make the claims and of those who might in ignorance grant the claims.
Reply
Let's start with the major claim of Spadecaller: The addition of an article pointing out that the Indian government itself admits that at least 47,000 people have died in Kashmir during the campaign for independence from India - other sources claim at least 100,000. In short, pointing out the existence of a campaign for independence of a muslim majority state from a Hindu country (whether valid or not) that apparently led to the violence in Bombay is claimed by Spadecaller as an example of antisemitism. This simply shows abject ignorance or preposterous disdain for the rest of the world (only my jewishness is important) by Spadecaller.
Now why would Kashmiris attack a jewish center in Bombay? I also added to the article a link to a story about the involvement of the Israeli Mossad in Kashmir. There are those who say that Nariman House in part acts as a Mossad base. Whatever I may think, those Kashmiris fighting for their independence will certainly regard such involvement by the Mossad as unjustified and a motivation for resisting such involvement (why on earth is the Mossad messing in such issues??). While most people might regard such information as context that helps understand the situation, Spadecaller apparently considers that you should not know such things and that anyone who tells you that the Mossad is actively involved in Kashmir is an anti-semite. This speaks for itself.
-
-
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Here is the article under review:
Reply
<<A tragic end at Mumbai's Jewish Center »
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/11/30/a-tragic... -
100%
Poulenc11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
"We must identify the roots to terrorism..."
Reply
Individual social pathologies aside, people who have what they need will be less inclined to pursue violent means to whatever end.
In atmospheres of poverty, oppression and exploitation--and, of course, of totalitarian thinking--terrorism can flourish.
This is of course no apology for heinous barbarism, but rather an attempt to place it in some context.-
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
"Individual social pathologies aside..."
Reply
I agree with you Poulenc, but lets not put those "Individual social pathologies aside..."
Lets address them and not pretend they are not here. Yes, there is a giant elephant sitting in our living room. Now what?
-
-
100%
Newperson11 months, 4 weeks ago
-
88%
Natureboy11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Terrorism is what the other guy does.
Reply
We don't call the firebombing of Dresden or the nuking of Hiroshima or Nagasaki terrorism, but they were acts far more visciously insane than that of a suicide bomber detonating himself on a bus.
-
-
100%
TheRealizer11 months, 4 weeks ago
-
89%
CRYMTYPHON11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
On 911 we were attacked by saudis, some of the richest people on earth.
Reply
It was planned by an ex-industrial millionaire from a wealthy background.
The poor don't spend much time trying to blow up the rich.
They usualy are busy trying to stay alive.
But I may be misunderstanding you, TheRealizer. -
-
88%
Grrr11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
If by that you mean given the chance to elect their own governments and run their own countries, yeah. THAT is what they're ticked about. We topple their governments and prop up puppet regimes that will cow-tow to the will of exploitative US policy, or at least pretend to (while funding terrorists). It won't stop until we do.
Reply
-
-
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
The audio file attached to this story plays automatically. It is an mp3 file and your browser must have a program like flash player or shock wave etc to listen to it. I have received a couple of inquiries about the story having no words... Have you been able to hear the story that I posted?
Reply -
100%
jovial11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
The attacks seem to be rooted in an ideology that opposes the policies of the UK, the U.S., and Israel. This leaves a lot of speculation room for all parties and people to form different opinions. There were reports that UK and American citizens were to be specifically targeted. Jews also seemed to be on the list. As long as we continue to interfere in these countries to serve our own political and economic interests, there will be groups that oppose it. Some of these groups will turn to violence. Arabs and Jews have lived together for many years. There is a way to to live harmoniously. There has to be a way. First, both sides need to make concessions. Concessions that hurt. Concessions that show good faith. Suicide bombings and firing rockets into Israel must cease. Grabbing Palestinian territory must end and the strangulation of the Gaza strip is quite simply a criminal act. The occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan must end. A meeting of the leaders of all countries involved should be commenced ASAP. The meetings should be relentless until all of the problems are worked out. A treaty should be signed on the floor of the United Nations that is agreeable to all sides. This is much too important. Treaty after treaty has been broken and poeple have begun to accept this as the norm, but the whole world is suffering. The people of the U.S, UK, Spain, Germany, Israel, Russia, Palestine, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, chechnya...on and on, all have an active interest in seeing this problem resolved. The problem arises when countries take a theological view of these events. They see the other side as Evil and thus see no reason to really negotiate. That tactic is outdated and has been proven time and time again, not to work. The world can sit by on the sidelines and take sides or not be involved in this conflict. It is imperative to save the lives of so many innocents that ALL the world leaders make this a matter of the highest priority to come to some amicable or not so amicable solution.
Reply-
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
jovial:
Reply
As much as I do agree with your comments, the story posted is about the topic of anti-Semitic and Islamophobic commentary that inundates stories like the one Israeligirl posted. To say that she was understandably dismayed by the sordid reaction that the Propeller community provided would be an understatement.
(There appears to be an aversion to discussing the giant elephant sitting in the middle of this room.)
For anyone whose browser failed to play the audio that is provided on this story, I have now placed written text on my site to accommodate everyone. -
100%
jovial11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
What can i say about that, Spade. As a black man myself I know that indiscriminate hate against any group of people in totality is WRONG. Just as blacks in this country have died here and in other parts of the world by people fueled with hate, I believe it will continue to happen with other groups as well. Some Jews will die, for the simple fact that they are Jewish. Some Muslims will die, for the simple fact that they are Muslim. Some christians, buddhists, etc., will die for their faith as well. That's why i feel that it is so important that our respective governments set a better example for the people of their respective countries to follow. It's an extrememly difficult problem to challenge. I also think that the media bears a large responsiblity in this. The elephant in the room is "us". We need to stop looking at things the way we did before. We need to educate, we need to increase world class education across the planet and intermingle more with different cultures and ideas. As long as we isolate ourselves we will keep these fears and phobias alive. It's a dream..A dream that Martin Luther King talked about in his famous speech. A dream that has to be acted upon. Not just recognized for it's witicism, but followed in our everyday lives. Obama's election was a step in the right direction. Maybe our government can show the world how to move in the direction of parity between all people, all faiths, all creeds, and all colors, how to work together to produce a more perfect world. I will not condemn the people that made those statements on that post. I think that tactic is self defeating. I think education and teaching tolerance is a much better technique.
Reply -
44%
Thinker2211 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
> Arabs and Jews have lived together for many years.
Reply
During the last 60 years the number of Jews in the Arab countries decreased by 98%. Compare this with the "only" 60% decrease of Jewish population in Europe during the Holocaust.
Any comments?
> As long as we continue to interfere in these countries to serve our own political and economic interests, there will be groups that oppose it.
Unfortunately, netther we (the West and Israel) nor the "groups that oppose it" live in a vacuum. This means that it is not technically possible to NOT interfere in "these countries". The simple truth is that the "groups that oppose it" will always find a justification to mass murder of innocent men, women and children for as long as they're willing and allowed to do it while people like yourself will continue to justify terrorism. For example, the mere existence of the Jewish state is considered to be an "interference" and a good enough reason for the Islamist terrorists to kill thousands of people.
> First, both sides need to make concessions. Concessions that hurt. Concessions that show good faith.
Which concessions will the Palestinians make? -
-
-
100%
Poulenc11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Spade, in re "individual social pathologies," above, one question is, to what extent are these prerequisite to terrorist acts?
Reply
Some checking reveals (to my, and perhaps your surprise) that "thirty years of research has found psychopathology and personality disorder no more likely among terrorists than among non-terrorists from the same background.
"Interviews with current and former terrorists find few with any disorder found in the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. Comparisons of terrorists with non-terrorists brought up in the same neighborhoods find psychopathology rates similar and low in both groups."
The issue seems to be fierce subscription to the violent values espoused in a small group of like-minded people--a group with which one identifies absolutely.
This group is placed first among its members, who drop their connections with every other social unit, such as family. The group becomes and functions as a small, endlessly self-referential militaristic cult, propped up via mass suport.
Interesting? Helpful?-
0%
memestryker11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Yes, it may be more about cultural reification, herd instinct, and in-group dynamics than psychopathy. Psychopaths exist everywhere, and come from all social strata.
Reply
The whole idea of "values" always crops up in any national elections anywhere, as different groups seek the power to assert their beliefs. So people whose values are miles apart may see others as dangerous. In the U.S., we allow things like freedom of religion and freedom of speech, but that doesn't happen most places in the world, and it doesn't really happen here, either. Media purposely block unpopular viewpoints from getting published, and anyone who has been a part of any human group knows that one can't just honestly spout opinions without sanctions.
-
-
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
My experience working with others does not correspond to your research.
Reply
Here are two "coping" methods that are inevitably dysfunctional that are commonly employed to some degree by all of us. In some instances, however, the degree of dysfunction lends itself to abusive conduct of others and oneself.
AVOIDANCE
is a controversial method of dealing with conflict which attempts to avoid directly confronting the issue at hand. Methods of doing this can include changing the subject, putting off a discussion until later, or simply not bringing up the subject of contention. Conflict avoidance can be used as a temporary measure to buy time or as permanent means of disposing of a matter. But when it lingers on about vitally important issues it becomes a driving force that can lead to destructive and even violent encounters.
DENIAL
Certain personality disorders tend to be characterized by denial more than others. For example, those with narcissistic personality disorder deny information that suggests they are not perfect. Antisocial behavior is characterized by denial of the harm done to others (such as with sexual offenders, substance abusers, and oppressive bigotry). -
-
-
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Poulenc,
Reply
I am saying that when we encounter comments like “What does it say that the story that gets posted is about 2 Jews?”
We deal with it -- even on Propeller; even when it is our friends spewing hate and bigotry.
Pretending that it is not there has proven to be a flawed and dangerous alternative. Most intelligent people blessed by some clarity of mind know that a person who would make such a comment is suffering from distorted thinking of some kind or another.
The adoption of this kind of distorted thinking by entire groups have lead to mass killings. It was the silence of those that knew better that I have tried to bring to the forefront here. Are not the lessons of Jonestown and Nazi Germany enough to prove this point? -
78%
KISA452a11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Sorry, couldn't access the story. But to add my 2 cents related to the comments...
Reply
Terrorism is a weapon used (mainly) by groups who think they have a legitimate grievance but do not see another way to acomplish their goal. If al quaeda had a military to beat the US on the battlefield, they would do so. Since they do not have the means to win in conventional war, they have to apply techniques of asymetric warfare since they believe their goals are worthy.
There are many underlying reasons a person becomes a terrorist and I won't even try to address most here.
But money. If you have no money, your family has no hope, they you are easy prey for terrorist recruiters. The suicide bombers and low tech attackers, etc.
Try changing your perspective for a moment. Let's assume some other group invaded the US. If an American suddenly started planting roadside bombs against this occupying power, you might think of them as a freedom fighter. Now expand your thinking so that you believe that your culture is "right" (rule of law, democracy, etc) and your culture is being destroyed. You might employ similar techniques to protect your culture. Something of a leap, but not really that far. In the first instance it is about tangible goods, land; in the second it is about cultural and moral goods. If some outside force was trying to turn the US Communist (or model after North Korea, Cuba, or even Islamic theocracy), people might well rebel against that group.
This is likely the thought pattern of many terrorists. In their minds they are freedom fighters. There is really little difference between the two except which side you believe is "right".-
-
67%
Thinker2211 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
> This is likely the thought pattern of many terrorists. In their minds they are freedom fighters. There is really little difference between the two except which side you believe is "right".
Reply
There is a HUGE difference between terrorists and freedom fighters, KISA. Terrorists DELIBERATELY MURDER NON-COMBATANTS (innocent unarmed civilians) in order to achieve their goals. Freedom can not and should not be achieved by mass murder of innocent people.
> Terrorism is a weapon used (mainly) by groups who think they have a legitimate grievance but do not see another way to acomplish their goal. If al quaeda had a military to beat the US on the battlefield, they would do so.
I doubt it. Terrorist tactic of murdering thousands of unarmed defenseless civilians while hiding among their own women and children is way more effective than fighting a trained, armed and organized military. The fact is that we (the West) still do not have an effective enough way to fight terrorism, main reason being our culture, our moral and our value of life.
-
-
100%
CRYMTYPHON11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Gamahuche posted a great thread some weeks ago about a man who saved hundreds of children from horrible death.
Reply
Unfortunately since the children were Jewish, and were being saved from the Holocaust, a propeller member spammed the thread with rants against Israel.
I am no strong supporter of the US policy towards Israel;
but that made me rather very angry.-
80%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
CRYMTYPHON/
Reply
I remember that thread. This is not an isolated incident. Every Jewish person that has posted articles on Propeller is confronted by not just one respondent that advocates violence against Jews and against Israel, we frequently encounter comments like the ones that I quoted in this story.
The same is true about racial victims. There is a distinct group of individuals that respond to stories of this nature by condemning the submission of the article itself. "Why do I have to hear about the oppression of black people; they oppress the whites too." How often do you read those comments?
Well, the same is true when a Jewish person submits a story. It's sad that many of Propeller's members blame Israel for terrorism; and they blame the Jews for supporting Israel. Just like we have had a horrible regime in the white house, should the world persecute all Americans who still love their country?
It is sad how few Israelis can endure the onslaught of anti-Semitic commentary and the hostiltiy directed by so many of our members. I hope that in time, those of us who choose to remain silent and to ignore these oppressive posters will began to speak up. There are only a few people who have the conviction and the courage to address these issues head on. Most of us know quite well who they are. They are the shining stars in this dark picture.
Very few Jews can survive on this site for long -- or would even want to...
-
-
0%
KISA452a11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Well, (and I rarely give my opinion on much of anything) I am about as strong a supporter of Israel as their is. For the purpose from which teh country was re-founded, to the fact that they have been a US ally, to they being a Democracy in a region that I think needs democracy (well, maybe we don't really want them making their choices?), to the fact that I generally root for the underdog. No, I don't agree with everything, but in they have a right to peaceful existence.
Reply
That said, it was perfectly fine to ask what does it say that 2 jews were killed. You gave a reasonable answer. Maybe you changed a mind, maybe not. But the real problem, IMO is that people generally hold these views but can't even express them in public. This means that 1) it builds up since you generally are the winner of an argument in your own mind; 2) They can not get any alternative perspective; 3) They will convince others of their view in secret and this still won't be challeneged. People just assume that everyone thinks like them. "Anti-semitism is bad". But truthfully there are different views. Simply imposing silence is self destructive and allows the other side to flourish in hiding.
It is good that people are able to express themselves. It is like being in a class, other people have the same questions/opinion. If 1 or 2 posters talk this way, there are dozens who agree with them. Take the opportunity to present your side logically and even if you don't change the other poster, maybe some of those who share his/her opinion will listen to you and learn.
As always, just my thoughts :D -
100%
canadianrancher5711 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
I read the artical and I remember the story you are talking about and I think that I even propped it, that being said I will add that yes I do see much Anti-semitism and also Islamophobia on this site but also I see many instances where groups of people do gang up on others on many issues beside these two, I feel that we have lost members because of this behavior and I know that some people are not as tolerant to criticism as others but with out conflicting information or differences in opinion people people quit thinking.
Reply
The truth in never presented fully by anyone on an issue but usually reflects only their opinion. I know this because My grandfather had a real hatred for the Jewish people and his feelings were shared by may in our area because of one person who came around to the farms and bought animals from them. The man was nothing more than a common criminal but because he was Jewish he amplified a feeling about Jews and money. I was lucky enough to meet other Jewish people who presented me with a different look at the idea of Jews.
I guess I have more faith in people than some but I always enjoy differences in opinions even if they promote hate since I feel that most people do strive to see the best that is in any group of people. -
100%
Progressive11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
This story and the resulting comments are indicative of the possibility of reasonable persons to resolve the conflicts we are forced to confront as human beings who must share this planet. It's too bad we can't eliminate bigotry simply by voting it down in forums such as this, but I find it encouraging that many of us here are desirous of understanding the opinions of others and, in the process, often adjusting our own.
Reply-
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Progressive
Reply
Thanks for that astute observation. So far. the level of discussion has been constructive and informative. The process of learning from each other is possible even under our present state of affairs, which will hopefully improve in time ... if we try to rightly relate to each other. Easier said than done. It is the failure of trying that scares me the most. If we are to leave our children anything of value about our troubled world, hopefully it will be that we can make improvement by staying engaged despite these dark periods that our world is facing.
-
-
100%
jakesguile11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Itachirumon here - I haven't been able to access my account since Prop 2.0 and I've been laying fairly low until post-election:
Reply
I'll admit I am not qite as up on this situation as I should be because the last two weeks I've been moving around a lot for my birthday and then going off as a favor to a friend. That said I think violence against anybody based upon some trait or belief is wrong and disgusting. That people would mock the Jews still makes literally no sense to me. I'm half-Jewish (dad's side) but I don't really consider myself to practice Judiasm (I like the tenets but I've always just sort of accepted Jesus on faith, passive acceptance, religion's always bothered me on a deeper level because of the solemnity of it, makes me feel awkward). And I'll admit I'll make jokes about my inherrant Jewyness with regards to how cheap I am with money but not to be outwardly offensive. In essence, I dislike how this world still resembles School Ties but we can't seem to get rid of the hate. -
25%
Mutainia11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
But most terrorists ARE Muslim, and, go ahead and call me a biggot, I'll still put the blame on Islam for having a book (the Quran) that has not only surah 9:1-5 (which allows the Muslim to break treaties), 9:29 (which produces alienation between Muslim and non-Muslim), 7:3-5 (which has Allah boasting about being a terrorist), 3:28 and 16:106 (which allows for deceit and deception...LYING), but, even has 4:24, which not only allows for slavery, but, allows the slave master to have sex with a slave who is already married. CALL me a biggot for pointing this out. I don't blame the terrorist, I blame Islam...for it's Islam that turns the religious into monsters, telling its faithful that the worst sin is "shirk" (that Christians are thought guilty of in Islam, and that Jews are "apes and swine" because they are the ones "worthy of Allah's curse and wrath". I've got a video to prove this fact if you want to see it. A cute Muslim girl, about the age of two, is letting us know all about shirk and Jews.
Reply-
90%
willottica11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Most American-acknowledged terrorists are Muslims... but what about the IRA? What about the KKK?
Reply
Don't complain about the Quran unless you're prepared to defend the Old Testament.
And remember that as there are many branches of Christianity, so too are there different branches of Islam.
Just as you have a cute muslim girl, on video, I've seen cute American two-year-olds in tiny little Klan robes speaking hatred. They parrot their parents and haven't a clue what they're really saying. -
22%
Georgia5011 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Fact is, children's animation on Saudia Arabian television depicts Jews as offspring of "apes and swine" on a routine basis. When that is the fodder by which Muslim children come of age, how are we to expect an outcome other than terrorism?
Reply
We do not find Christian Palestinians joining in assaults and missile launches against Israel. Just ask Hyperbola...he knows the one Christian Palestinian who is the exception that proves the rule.
We do not find Israeli TV making similar portrayals of Muslims or Arabs. Saudi Arabian-style racist media is probably illegal in Israel.
Yes, there are millions of peaceful, honorable Muslims. Just as there were millions of peaceful, honorable Germans and Japanese in WWII. The problem is not what Islam is, but what it is not--a bar to the systematic global cultivation of mindless, pathological, evil-to-the-core terrorists. That is the one parameter that sets Islam apart from all other religions.
And just as in WWII, the world was not able to count on peaceful, honorable Germans and Japanese to fix the problem.
-
-
100%
not2needy11 months, 4 weeks ago
-
jovialComment removed: Spam
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
mackiemesserComment removed: Retracted by user
-
-
-
-
-
-
RRconComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
-
-
-
40%
Georgia5011 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
We now know that there are two kinds of victims in Mumbai. Those who were killed, and those who were first tortured then killed.
Reply
The Chabad House Jews were first tortured, then killed.
This is how these animals react to their perceived slights. In my book, their reaction proves that their slights are a matter of subjective perception and not a matter of law, of civilization, of religion, or of basic human decency. This is why we exterminate them after and because of actions like these. We do not let pathological murderers own or presume to own the narrative by which civilized people indict them and remove them from society. -
100%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Mutainia
Reply
Are you unable to accept that all religous texts are mixed with confusing and seemingly absurd statements?
Are you unable to acknowledge that many Muslims are not terrorists and are peace-loving individuals?
If you think you are justified in stereotyping all Muslims as decietful, religious monsters, Jew haters, and terrorists that you will continue living a lie.
When you repeat "Jews are apes and swine" because it shed a poor light on the target of your prejudice, do you think it brings peace or does it fan the flames of hatred?
I don't expect a single word or a single question that I posed will make a difference to you, but who knows... maybe some person is watching this post silently and will decide that they do not want to be influenced by your false justifications that condemn millions of people based on one criteria ... they are Muslim. OMG!-
-
Neutral
Mutainia11 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
"Are you unable to accept that all religous texts are mixed with confusing and seemingly absurd statements?"
Reply
Mut: No, I expect it. I just take a lot of flack from Muhammadans and their friends for trying to wake up those to the fact that SOME of those absurd statements are not only believed in but WHEN believed in, GREATLY threaten world peace and its freedoms. That's all.
"Are you unable to acknowledge that many Muslims are not terrorists and are peace-loving individuals?"
Mut: Oh, I can acknowledge it just fine, because, like in Christianity, not to many people believe in their Holy Books. Trouble is, in Islam, there is this little thing called "al-taqqiya" (thanks to Quran 3:28 and 16:106), which makes it so we can't tell those who are Liberal (and, thus, don't really beLIEVE their crap), from those who... DO.
"If you think you are justified in stereotyping all Muslims as decietful, religious monsters, Jew haters, and terrorists that you will continue living a lie."
Mut: Who said I believe all Muslims are that way? Thanks to al-taqqiya, though, you can't tell peaceful from Jahadi. Which is what I usually point out.
"When you repeat "Jews are apes and swine" because it shed a poor light on the target of your prejudice, do you think it brings peace or does it fan the flames of hatred?"
Mut: When have I called Jews "apes and swine"? I DO have a tendency to call attention to the fact that Muslims preach Jews being "apes and swine", so, if you think I have called them that, my gosh, you really don't read what I write, DO you, sir?
"I don't expect a single word or a single question that I posed will make a difference to you,"
Mut: Not if you think I've called Jews "apes and swine", that is true.
" but who knows... maybe some person is watching this post silently and will decide that they do not want to be influenced by your false justifications that condemn millions of people based on one criteria ... they are Muslim. OMG!"
Mut: Well, I hope not. For, I don't condemn Muslims, only the religion, Islam, which turns GOOD Muslims into monsters (think 45 British Islamic MEDICAL doctors who conspired to destroy two Scottish airports in 2007).
-
-
100%
GehlLady11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Spadecaller,
Reply
Thanks for the invitation, the text and audio worked just fine for me. I find myself needing to respond, and I hope it is received as I intend it, this is one time I don't wish to be misunderstood.
For myself, my silence (on this specific topic) has been due to my ignorance of the issues and history, the knowledge needed to form opinions. The entire conflict is confusing to me, so I read different posters comments, trying to understand both sides position, and I have on occasion asked questions here on propeller, as well as some of my friends and family, most of them are devout Christians. I do believe in God, and consider myself Christian, but don't attend services, that's another tangled web not appropriate for this thread. Terrorism as described by the targeting of innocents, the civilians, is murder, no matter the cause.
As for racism and bigotry, I have been labeled as such on propeller by some, but when I challendged them for proof, show me the comments, there is nothing but silence. Briefly, my bottom line is I will treat you as you treat me, regardless of color, religion, gender, whatever. I will not feel guilty, or inferior because I am a southern white woman. I have worked hard most of my life in construction in 3 states, side by side with many ethnicities. Respect from me is earned by what you do, not what you look like. It's that simple for me. Nor do I consider my defense of the south racist. It's my home, and there are many beautiful and wondrous things, people, and places here, as well as the bad history shared by all of this nation. -
75%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
GehlLady
Reply
Thanks for commenting. I believe that whether we are from the south or from the north has nothing to do with the fact that we as human beings naturally feel the pain of others.
Is it not human nature to feel a sense of guilt, compassion, and fear when we pass a homeless derelict in the street?
A good friend once said to me, where there is guilt, there is decency. I don't like feeling guilty, but I think to various degrees we all feel the tug of guilt when we see people suffering in this world. When we see a child starving in another country or when we see the victims of Katrina, how can we not feel the pang of guilt? Is that not human nature? Is it not human nature to feel angry that the victims of Katrina were not treated like other hurricane victims? Most of us know that if they had been white and wealthier, they would have been treated far better. To feel a sense of guilt that we know that we would have been treated better - that we are free to live better simply because our skin is white, is understandable. Do we not all share in this collective guilt? I know this poses serious objections for some; but I believe without a doubt that we are all connected in some manner or another and when we deny that connection, we suffer in our own ways.
Isn't guilt (and compassion) sometimes the first feeling that leads us to lend a helping hand to others less fortunate? -
75%
willottica11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Coming from Propeller's leading anti-Semite, who is well known for long and repetitive comments targeted against Jews and Zionists.
Reply
Spade, again, I have to question your intellectual honesty here. Whether you're also deceiving yourself, I'm not sure. I have never seen a comment by the poster in question which is against Jews. They are all quite specifically directed against Zionism, and the poster takes care to make a distinction. In fact many of the posts are quotes BY Jews against Zionism.
This comment: "What does it say that the story that gets posted is about 2 Jews?" I find much more reprehensible and offensive than anything the first poster puts. This comment has undertones that say Jews have no right to complain -- or that they are the first to complain. This second poster's question ignores the reality, that a story about 2 Jews being killed doesn't have to say anything, except that a tragedy occurred.
Finally, I object to this: The unwillingness to understand the value of few lives as it impacts each person in this Jewish community and the world at large is an indication of a much deeper symptom. Some of us are familiar with it. It is called anti-Semitism...While there are those who speak out against these comments, too many remain silent. It is this kind of silence that is troublesome.
It is not anti-Semitism to fail to identify with the plight of Jewish community. It is anti-semitism to demonize or ostracize them. I fear that you are displaying the same flawed "with us or against us" attitude that was so problematic with the Bush Presidency. There is a third position, which is neutrality. A position which does not automatically side with or against, but attempts to look at all sides before coming to a decision. I have never been mistreated by a Jewish person, nor am I Jewish myself, so I don't feel that I have any particular reason to espouse one side or another. Yet I often feel that you unfairly mis-characterize comments by hyperbola as anti-semitic, when they call to light very real injustices perpetuated by the Israeli government.-
100%
tchef11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
I tend to agree about "the poster in question". He does come off over the top most of the time but I don't see antisemitism in his comments. He is anti Zionist. Israel was created under some very questionable circumstances. A lot of what was done to the people of Palestine was unjust. I'm not justifying the terrorist action taken against Israel but I am stating that I don't agree with much of what has been and continues to be done there. One of the problems today is that as soon as anyone says anything against Israel they are labeled antisemitic. This is not true. Just because you don't support Israel doesn't mean you hate Jews.
Reply
I will support you fully on the comment about killing two Jews rates a story. That is definately a slam on the race and totally uncalled for. -
67%
beavith111 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
its not the fact that that particular member of propeller is antizionist. that much is clear.
Reply
in the context of his writing, he is also an antisemite.
i've noted it a couple times.
i'm not jewish. i'm not a zionist. i could almost care less. but let's call a spade a spade.
he's certainly welcome to be antizionist as the day is long. being an antisemite is unacceptable.
spadecaller is 100% right on. -
50%
Spadecaller11 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
There is a dangerous confluence between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, though the two concepts are not always identical. Anti-Zionism is often used to conceal hatred of Jews.
Reply
Here are some simple ways to distinguish anti-Semitism from legitimate criticism of Israel:
(1) Is the speaker someone with a history of anti-Jewish attitudes?
(2)Critics who habitually single out Israel for condemnation while ignoring far worse actions by other countries (especially other Middle Eastern countries) are anti-Semitic.
(3) Likening Israel to Nazi Germany, or to traditional anti-Jewish stereotypical behavior is another sure sign of Jew-baiting.
(4) Attacks on the merits of Israel's existence rather than individual government policies are anti-Semitic.
When approached by a student who attacked Zionism, Dr. Martin Luther King responded: “When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism.”
-
More News
Politics Daily
The Huffington Post
Daniel Levy: Netanyahu's Stubbornness On Settlements Produces American Call For 1967 Borders
Deepak Chopra: India Comes To The White House, All At Once
Geoffrey Dunn: More Palin Lies: The Trooper in 'Troopergate' Breaks His Silence
Michael Shermer: The Coma Man Hoax: Rom Houben's "Communication" Is "Ideomotor" Ouija Board Effect
Add a Comment
Sign In With Your Propeller Account
Please keep your comments relevant to this story.
To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br /> tags.