Comments for Vicious and viscous: The latest from the hysterical Christian Right »
Posted By jovial 1 year ago in ReligionThe Protestant Christian Right (and their allies) are wringing their collective hands and forecasting doom. Why? Because President-elect Barack Obama is including gay people in his administration and has vowed to work toward equality for all Americans.
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jovial1 year ago
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In order to get a state license in most states to marry couples you have to be non-discriminatory. The Catholic church considers matrimony to be a sacrament. They also consider marriage to be between one man and one woman. If states start to legalize gay marriage, would some churches be forced to discriminate based on their beliefs?
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memestryker1 year ago
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They can do all sorts of discriminatory things--plenty of churches refuse to even marry someone who is not a member of their church. Some individuals end up at a Justice of the Peace because they can't find a church that will marry then unless they go through a catechism, convert, and tithe.
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Unitarians have always been open to gay unions, and have performed commitment ceremonies analogous to weddings where gay unions are not legally binding. I know of a few Unitarian ministers who have refused to marry anyone until everyone can be married.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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ROTFLMAO
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Unitarians do not adhere to the idea that the Bible is the word of God. They say any way to God is OK. So don't try putting them in the same category of conservative Christians. (those who believe that the Bible is the word of God)-
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memestryker1 year ago
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"Unitarians do not adhere to the idea that the Bible is the word of God. They say any way to God is OK."
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That is false. Unitarians decide for themselves what they think and believe about religion, and some are Bible-believing Christians, while others are Buddhists, agnostics, atheists, or about anything else. What they have in common is they affirm the worth and dignity of all people and the individual freedom and responsibility to make an informed choice about what to believe.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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That is what I was saying in different words. The denomination does not adhere to the belief that the Bible is the word of God. That all paths to God are equal. Everything flows from there. So the denomination is not Christian although some of the members are.
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive11 Replies
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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This story is a very liberal atheistic biased piece. The line "Ever since “Christianity” divorced itself from spirituality and became a socio-political institution" tells how biased it is. Christianity has been part and parcel in the US ever since the first colonies were established. They have been a part of this country ever since and almost all presidents including the last few and the president elect are Christians. Christian have been in all of the offices of this country. But all of a sudden Christians have divorced from spirituality and become socio-political. That is complete ignorance of this countries history. The question that begs an answer is when has Christianity ever left the "socio-political" stage. It has been part and parcel of the government as it was designed to be. The clauses in the constitution protect religions from the government not the government from the religions. It was expected that almost all people in the government would be Christian.
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Take a look at the states that have laws and/or constitutional amendments about one man one woman as a definition of marriage. Why all of these states?
http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?conten...
This map is not quite up to date. It was before the election. Florida and California now have constitutional amendments of one man one woman.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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Explain to me which side did the worst things to the other side.
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Was it the scalping and marauding Indians that killed anybody they came up against?
Was it the army that at times went into villages and killed every one they could?
Was it the Indians that butchered and tortured those they came across?
Was it white outcasts that viciously killed Indians?
It seems to me both side were equally guilty. Thus causing the hatred that kept these atrocities going.-
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Dionys1 year ago
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"Was it the scalping and marauding Indians that killed anybody they came up against?"
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Indians learned scalping from the Europeans. It didn't exist prior to their invasion.
"Was it the army that at times went into villages and killed every one they could?"
Yes. Do you read any history?
"Was it the Indians that butchered and tortured those they came across?"
Nope. Just the invading people stealing their land, killing their food and raping their women.
"Was it white outcasts that viciously killed Indians?"
No. It was your everyday white European. Which makes it even more horrific.
"It seems to me both side were equally guilty"
Seriously? Read a f-ing book you troll.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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Sounds to me like you have a very biased view of history. White man evil and Indian good. Foolish man there was evil and good on both sides. But maybe that is beyond your comprehension. If you look at the real histories you will find that evil existed on both side and good existed on both sides.
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You are saying that it was OK to attack people who were peacefully living in an area. Both sides did this. But of course to you the Indians did no evil. Why do you think that the rancor lasted a long time on the white mans side as well as the Indian side? Why do you think that the saying "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." came to be? Could it possibly be the torture that some tribes liked to inflict on their captives?
Remember that as we started in this country the different tribes were at war with each other. A few tribes were somewhat peaceful. The biggest problem that they had was they could not stop fighting each other to just fight the white man. Look at the sacred Black Hills to the Sioux. They claim it as a sacred land. How did they come by it. They fought the tribe that lived there a couple hundred years before they came into contact with the white man. So they were taking land from each other long before the white men arrived. They tortured and mutilated their prisoners long before the white man came along.
I suggest you do some reading that is not the left wing sort and learn about what really happened.
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jovial1 year ago
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The Bible says nothing of same sex marriage. The Sodom and Gomorrah story is open to different interpretations. Here's a link for you to look at.
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http://www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg191.htm-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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ROTFLMAO
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While "sodomy" was practiced there as noted in the story of Lot the reason for their destruction was something God considered worse. Their refusal to help others.
By the way the city of Sodom is being excavated now. One object taken from the site was some fused pottery. The only other place where something like that was found was in the desert where they tested the atomic bomb. They found fused sand there. It takes very intense heat to do that.
The following is from net.bible.org
1Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals,
1Timothy 1:10
sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers – in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching.
Leviticus 18:22
You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.-
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Dionys1 year ago
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"sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals" 1Tim 1:10
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You may want to choose a translation that doesn't have a political aim as that's not how the original language translates.
"Leviticus 18:22
You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act.
Leviticus 20:13
If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves."
Leviticus and Exodus also tell us how we can own slaves and who we can take for slaves. Are you going to tell us now that Slavery is a-okay?
Tell me -- Do you follow all the rules in Leviticus? Or do you just get outraged at the homosexual stuff because secretly you like the idea of another man on top of you?-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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Did you also read that every seven years was a year of Jubilee? That year all slaves had to be freed. All land reverted back to the original owner. All debts are considered gone. You like to cherry pick what you try to make into evil. But you leave out the other side. Why???
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Goppy1 year ago
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If you are trying to say that the Bible outlaws homosexuality ... then clearly ... the Bible frowns on the American concept of one woman, one man marriage.
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There are far more references to polygamy in the Bible than to homosexuality.
And all of them are good.
In addition, Paul advocated bachelorhood. Paul, one of the 12 Apostles ... not some old testament reference.
So Endo, if you are TRULY a Christian ... and TRULY follow the Bible ... you need to make a choice to either have a few more wives ... or get divorced and become a confirmed bachelor.
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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You are the one spouting heresy. Did you not hear that you are to render to Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is Gods?
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"Caesar" sets the laws in the places we live. God sets the rules to guide us. We are not supposed to go against "Caesar" because God set him in place over us.
So why are you suggesting we break "Caesars" laws concerning marriage?
That is heresy to say that we should break the laws of "Caesar". To suggest that there has to be a command in the Bible to do what "Caesar" declared illegal.
Where does it command up to stay single and where does it command us to be polygamists? Answer is no where. Paul makes a suggestion but recognizes that most will not be able to do that.
And you try to make out you are a Christian. Foolish one.
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Spadecaller1 year ago
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Endo:
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"This story is a very liberal atheistic biased piece."
That coming from you is a complement. Now I will go back and finish reading the entire piece. Thanks for the preview.
BTW: What do you think about hypocritical, self-righteous neoconservative Christian fundamentalists?-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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You have some adjectives that do not fit. Do you know what a fundamentalist is?
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a movement that arose mainly within British and American Protestantism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among conservative evangelical Christians, who, in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a fundamental set of Christian beliefs: the inerrancy of the Bible, Sola Scriptura, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the imminent personal return of Jesus Christ.
This is what you are blathering about. Try and understand that there are Jews who do the same thing. Only they are Orthodox if memory serves me correctly. When the religious people hold to the basic (or fundamental) beliefs of their religion that is what they can be called.
So I believe that the "self-righteous" can be applied to you and it fits. Probably the hypocritical can also be applied. You look down your nose at Christianity as shown by your post. "hypocritical, self-righteous neoconservative Christian fundamentalists" You post things about Christians like that a lot. You enjoy placing them in the company of Hitler. You even tried to say the Hitler was a Christian. So I believe those two terms apply to you.
In point of act fundamental Christians are both liberal and conservative. Your side continual attacking them will eventually drive them to conservatism. So just keep it up. We will welcome them from their error.-
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Dionys1 year ago
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Orthodox Jews stone women in Jerusalem for wearing shorts or pants. I don't think I'd be looking towards them as a 'good example' of fundamentalists in other religions.
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As to what fundamentalist means now, I suspect for many it means a very different thing than the fundamentalists you're talking about, the ones who "in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a fundamental set of Christian beliefs: the inerrancy of the Bible, Sola Scriptura, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the imminent personal return of Jesus Christ."
But maybe you really think thats what fundamentalists are today. Unfortunately the Bible isn't inerrant. There are entire web sites listing all the contradictions within the Bible. You can look them up yourself. It's a good thing Catholics are smart enough to know that and assert that the Bible isn't inerrant, nor literal truth.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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Just like the people who like to throw the Zionist label around you and others like to use the fundamentalist label for those who you hate. But then you hate anything Christian. Incorrectly applying a label just make you ignorant or foolish.
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The charge against Orthodox Jews is false. Stoning is a death punishment. Stones are thrown until the person is dead. It is not the orthodox but the ULTRA orthodox Jews doing this. They in fact have no killed anybody. This is different from the Muslim honor killing of women who do these things. The father or husband kills them and nothing is done.
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jordan111 year ago
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Christianity has been part and parcel in the US ever since the first colonies were established.>>>>
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Yes, established as colonies of England with the 'leadership' of the Church of England. Then some 'liberal' thinking people decided they didn't want to be 'ruled' by Christianity, & convinced the people of the colonies to drop kick the theocrats out of power & give the right of every man to decide his own beliefs and destiny. And you know what? They won us that right in the American Revolution.
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Goppy1 year ago
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Hmmm... that's strange.
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Why would an attack on Christianity bother you?
Your recurrent attacks and insults clearly indicates someone who is no Christian.
Nor does your support for Endless War.
Or your support for Welfare for the Wealthy.
Or your support for lying to promote war.
Or your support for the treason of revenge outing of undercover CIA agents.
Or your support to keep children from getting health care.
I don't know exactly what you call yourself ... but clearly, Christian simply CANNOT be one of your monikers.
At least ... not if you are honest.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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WOW all of that liberal ideas you are spouting. Then you told me you were a conservative. Well you proved me right in this thread. You are not a Christian or a conservative. So tell me again how I am wrong.
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Liberals like to place things in their own way of saying things.
Supporting the endless war. In point f fact they are removing troops there in stages. The country is getting better able to take the initiative.
Support welfare for the wealthy. In other words reducing the tax rate and getting more revenue from them is giving them welfare. That is a hoot. Reduce the tax and get more money from them. That is strange welfare.
Support lying to promote war. There is the big liberal lie. The previous administration and the current one with all of the Congress people who had access to the secret CIA documents said the same thing. The other countries said the same thing. But as an Obama supporter pointed out to me that you can't call someone a liar if they believe what they are saying. I told him and now you to apply that to Bush. He was the only one in the world with secret information that the rest of the world was wrong. What a whopper.
Support the treason of revenge outing an undercover CIA agent. This is a good one. Plame was not a covered agent. The job she held for the required time was not under that rule. But the left just wanted blood. They kept calling the non crime treason. So the prosecutor found out early who outed her and DID NOTHING to that person. He found a discrepancy in the recollections of Libby and two of the people he talked to out of hundreds. He built that difference of opinion into a case of perjury. That gave the liberals their pound of flesh. He was NEVER ACCUSED of outing Plame.
Keeping children from getting health care. The definition of children in some places was a 23 year old person. Almost all of the children have health care. Those that do not have it can go to the emergency room, the government clinics, or the free clinics. But we are depriving them from health care. Say what you really mean. You want the start of federal health care. Hillery's womb to tomb care. Cost us more in taxes than we pay now for insurance but you want the single payer system. The government will drive the payments down to the providers and like the other countries they will get jobs that pay better.
So what we have is a liberal atheist telling a Christian they can't be a Christian since they do not support your agenda. How do you live with yourself Goppy.
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memestryker1 year ago
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GehlLady1 year ago
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hamy1 year ago
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hamy1 year ago
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They won't. They can't. The Constitution won't allow it.
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No. I won't leave. I didn't leave when Bush stole the White House. I will just continue to fight as I have since I came out.
The country I grew up in doesn't discriminate. It doesn't torture. It doesn't persecute citizens based on religious dogma. It doesn't create concentration camps.
That's what I remember anyway.
You must have grown up someplace else.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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No it is that you have strange definitions for what you say and a poor memory of what I lived through. Or am I that much older than you?
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I moved from Indiana in 1956. There were Colored bathrooms and drinking fountains. Black were not allowed in many places. In the North the discrimination was just not a blatant. There was a small restaurant in South Bend that served a black man once and went out of business because most whites refused to eat there again. The civil rights movement came and the demonstrations against busing and integration of schools lasted several months. In the South they stood in the way of the buses. In Boston they tried to turn over a bus with children it it. The north was much more vicious than the south.
So as you were talking about discrimination?
Torture is funny. The present torture that is given the prisoners to get information out of them is music. The terrorists always cave in after the nonstop music. Either a specific rock piece or Barney the Purple Dragon theme song. "I love you, You love me, etc." Horrible horrible torture.
The water boarding was done a horrible total of three times. They got information that saved lives. We should have just been nice and played patty cake with them. Why are we supposed to be nice to people who blow themselves up in order to kill and maim other people. Mostly other Muslims.
Persecute people on religious dogma. What a crock. The overwhelming percentage of citizens of this country are against same sex marriage. But the nasty homosexual lies try to blame everything on Religion. Go to Iran and be openly homosexual and see how long you would live. That is religious dogma.
Concentration camps. What a bunch of garbage. In EVERY war we put PRISONERS OF WAR in special prisons. At that point the Geneva conventions are applied. You want to free them and see how many people thay can kill the next go round? You must like blood.
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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A fundamentalist is one who believe the Bible is the word of God, that Jesus Christ came to be a substitutionary sacrifice for us and he rose on the third day, etc. The core beliefs that all Bible believing Christians believe. Look up the word.
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Such horrible beliefs. The denomination he belongs to adheres to this view. You just painted yourself into a corner. Obama is a fundamentalist.
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StevieGee1 year ago
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I for one am sick and tired of these holy roller jesus freaks forcing their religion on the regular people of this world. I would sooner die than join them. These are some of the ugliest, most hateful bigots in the world and they call themselves christians. Their spaceship needs to come and get them.
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DaneL1 year ago
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I for one am sick and tired of these homosexuals forcing their lifestyle on the regular people of this world. I would sooner die than join them. These are some of the ugliest, most hateful bigots in the world and they call themselves tolerant. Their spaceship needs to come and get them.
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All you have to do is change a few words.-
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Will13131 year ago
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DaneL1 year ago
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hamy1 year ago
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Homosexuals aren't taking rights away from American citizens based on their own personal and political beliefs. Christians are. Calling them out on that isn't "hate speech" it is standing up for human rights.
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And if you are not gay and this issue doesn't affect you in any way, why are you here? You are always posting on these stories. I don't look at things that I don't like. Just asking why this particular issue is so all consuming with you.-
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DaneL1 year ago
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Porky
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And if you are not gay and this issue doesn't affect you in any way, why are you here?
Really? I thought the story line has to do with the Christian right. Consumed? Hardly, I just don't like the hate speech that comes from your side when someone disagrees with you.-
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year ago
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''And if you are not gay and this issue doesn't affect you in any way, why are you here?''
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atmosphere and free parking
also I can smoke here
Gays don't 'force' their lifestyle on people, from what I've seen, and I would be vocal and visible too if I had been forced to hide for so many years
'an emotion repressed is amplified a thousand times'
-Caine on Kung Fu
no one has to 'accept' or like homosexuals-no one can be forced into that, but really that doesn't matter ,the acceptance thing, as far as the phenomena of homosexuality.
accept it or reject it, they aren't going anywhere. always been homosexuals, always will be
I think some worry about the 'spread' of homosexuality if it becomes accepted socially and somehow 'legitimized'
In days past it wasn't accepted anymore than Christianity in ancient Rome
still gays, still Christians
and what turns individual peoples gears has nothing to do with what society 'condones' or 'encourages'
I didnt like blonde women better than brunettes back in Farrah's day because blondes were everywhere and 'had more fun'
I care more about my own fun, and I likes them dark-haired women-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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ROTFLMAO
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Homosexuals started the Gay and Proud concept and have been in peoples faces ever since. So don't try that "not force" stuff on me. They have parades pushing themselves on people. They have the in your face concept in many places.
Go and peddle your ignorance somewhere else.-
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hamy1 year ago
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The parade is a response to being persecuted. Here's a little history. Do you know why the parade started? Because gay bars were raided by the police back in the 70's. The police would come in and arrest everyone in there just for being there. Their names would be put in the paper and some people would say that things were going on there that weren't going on there to keep their names out of the paper. So a group of drag queens at a bar called Stonewall were being roughed up by the cops and patrons of the bar were being arrested on the night of Judy Garland's birthday. Those drag queens decided that they weren't going to allow the police to bully American citizens anymore. It wasn't OK to beat gay people in the street. It wasn't OK for gay people to be murdered and no one be prosecuted. They fought back. And by having a parade every year, what we are saying is, "I'll put my face and name in the paper so that you can't use it to try and keep me quiet."
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The concept of Pride is so that we never go back to those days. We are not a country where you can be jailed for who you love anymore.
That parade is for us. It is in a gay neighborhood. It is sponsored by gay businesses and straight businesses who know where the money is. It is not for straight people. It is for gay people. So that we can unite. And together we can fight the ignorance and prejudice of people like you.
And just telling people that something exists isn't condoning it or "pushing" it. It is merely infoming.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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hamy1 year ago
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Because of people like you!
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That is why the cops raided those bars. Because "concerned citizens" felt that those bars shouldn't exist. They called the police and made up stories. I didn't say that everyone was innocent. I am sure that occasionally there were crimes. But the majority of the busts were just because there were "known homosexuals" in the bar.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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hamy1 year ago
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Again, a response to a personal attack is not hate speech.
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And if we are both hating on each other, isn't it hypocritical to call one of us out for it?
I'm just saying, if you have no argument you argue about the style of argument. Won't you just finally admit that the only reason you are against marriage equality is your own personal prejudices so that we can end this bickering?-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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The problem hamy is that it seems that is all you do to everybody. You are supposed to be civil on this site. But then liberals do not understand that. The person was not saying hate speech but since it was conservative you chose to look at in that light.
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You try to put words in my mouth that are not true. My reasons for rejecting the concept of same sex marriage has lots of reasons. Some personal and some not personal.
The personal ones are I do not want the sacred concept of marriage being tarnished with that objectionable insult. The marriage is for the family unit to be strong and grow together and raise the children we make together. That can not happen in a same sex marriage.
The non personal ones are the fact that I am a Christian and the word of God says that act is an abomination. Not my words. You take them up with God not me.
There is more to it than that but that is the hard core.-
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hamy1 year ago
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I won't dignify your attacks.
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I didn't put any words in your mouth. I used direct quotes. You are saying things that don't make any sense.
Again, my relationship UNDER THE LAW is just as valid as yours. In every way. Period. Your religious values are not what this struggle is about. You are prejudiced against gay people and that is fine. You are allowed to be so. But your personal prejudices are not going to keep me from having the same rights in a country that I pay taxes in.
And again, you are saying that couples who can't have children shouldn't be allowed to marry. And again, I ask why?
Also, if you eat pork or shellfish, you are an abomination as well. Not my words. Therefore if you eat pork or shellfish, you shouldn't be allowed to marry as well, I guess, according to your line of thinking.
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive2 Replies
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Will13131 year ago
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DaneL1 year ago
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mntnman444Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned1 Reply
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Will13131 year ago
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i'm not gay.. if you think gay people are somehow inferior fighters...
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i'd like to introduce you to a guy at the gym i go to.. 6'7 .. 280 lbs former nfl lineman..
he likes to kick ass .. pump iron.. and suck c...k in his own words....very scary human.. very scary.... NO ONE CALLS HIM A PANSY...
as for me.. very straight .. .. 6'2 and 250.. .. and quite sure i can still kick more than a little ass..
but as for you quit hiding your desires let yourself go.. once you get in touch with your inner feelings.. you'll feel better about yourself..-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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What a bunch of garbage you spew. If someone disagrees with you they are talking hate. If someone is a Christian they have no rights. What can you do except do the ad hominem attack. You and mntnman444. Two of a kind. Insults is all you know. Be proud.
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hamy1 year ago
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Um...so the catholic and mormon churches didn't just push to take rights away from American citizens in three states?
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And if I am not mistaken, they both have the rights that they took away from us. So what rights are "christians" missing?
If receiving verbal attacks based on their stripping the rights away from American citizens is what you are talking about, it is well deserved. For years I have been screamed at by "christians" who protest every gay rally, gay sporting event, and meeting. They can never tell me why they aren't picketing at seafood restaurants or clothing stores or Mardi Gras, which are also abominations according to the bible. They just hate gay people.
So you can obviously dish it out, but when it comes to taking it, you are a hypocrite and a pansy.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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Religious organizations have the right to express their views as they see it written in the Bible. Especially when the issue is up for a vote. It not only is their right but their duty. They are religious leaders. So you turn what they are saying into taking way the rights that never before existed in this country. You create right out of thin air and get mad when people argue against it. Saying what they stand for is "verbal attacks" against you. Get your own copy of the Bible and try to refute what they are saying. Conservative (believing the Bible is the word of God) Christians will always be FORCED to take a stand against same sex marriage. They have no choice. There are liberal (The Bible might contain some of the word of God) Christians will not object. But many time the liberal ones go so far that they are really not Christians. I can say that because the creeds were developed to separate the Christians from the non Christians.
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You obviously need to study the Bible to understand what we believe. Start with the gospel of John. That gives you some basics.
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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There you go with your normal ad hominem attack. That seems to be the only way you can discuss things. Any conservative thought to you are hate speech then you do not see the hateful things you are saying. Take off the blinders and try to have a meaningful discourse. Or is that beyond you.
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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You have no concept of what normal discourse is all about.
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http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/argumen...
Go there and look up ad hominem.
Ad hominem in the short version is attacking the man not the issue. Discussion is supposed to be about the issues. You generally read something conservative and then launch your attack against the person instead of the issue. If you are against what the person says you are supposed to argue the issues. You go for the jugular and call names and say the person is a bigot etc. Look at your above post and tell me you are telling the truth. Calling anyone those names only gets people mad and angry with you. Is that what you are trying here?-
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Will13131 year ago
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yep.. exactly you usually start by calling me a liar or ignorant.. your just getting in return .. what you give..
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like i said YOU FIRST..
you're the one that has a problem with normal discourse..
see you come right out with a definition.. as if I didn't know .. ...
and yes you are a bigot.. thats simply the truth. if you can't handle the truth.. don't log on..-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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I see there is no discussing things with you. I get upset when people tell lies. Bush lied is one of them. That is a favorite one of the left. If what you said is not a lie then prove it.Show me where it is truth. Bush is a criminal. lie. Bush tortures people. Lie. etc. etc. etc.
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If most of those thing were true there would ave been an impeachment. It takes evidence to impeach. Something the rantings of the left always ignores. What law was broken. It take date and time of a criminal act and evidence that it was committed. Saying that a policy is criminal does not make it so.
Waterboarding according to the definition that the military and others go by is not torture. If you do not like that calling it criminal does not make it so. You work for a change in the law. What they work from is, "torture is causing great pain or causing permanent damage to the person." This definition is being used because it has very definable lines that are not to be crossed. Any change to this will need some very definable lines.
But the accusation is they are torturing people. They are criminals. Why? Because you know what torture is. Then define it so it is very clear and try to get the law changed.-
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Will13131 year ago
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wow you're really all over the place..
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you call me a liar or ignorant I don't take that very well.. and would not take it AT ALL in person...
if you wish to have a discourse and you disagree..state your disagreement and we'll go from there
and you seem to be spending a lot of time that you could be spending with your KIDS. ..worrying about what I think....
if you think waterboarding isn't torture.. well I be glad to drive over to Sarasota and give you a personal demonstration.. and see if you change your mind on that one... I'm free this Saturday.. put up or,,,,,,,,
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djn3nunez31 year ago
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I have yet to see a group of gays canvasing a neighborhood distributing flyers and trying to convert straight people, have you? However I have seen many times Christains doing that very thing. I've been told I'll burn in hell for eternity for my non belief in the Christians Gods. But not once have I been accosted by gays telling me I'm going to hell if I don't become gay.
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cherev1 year ago
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"I think there is a gay and secular fascism in this country that wants to impose its will on the rest of us, is prepared to use violence. . . .."
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Whether he's right or not, this perception is one that the gay and secular will have to deal with. Left unchallenged or incorrectly challenged, it will grow until it explodes. One wonders what the reaction will be.-
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hamy1 year ago
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They are just trying to rally the troops and bring us into the stance of their "culture wars" idea. Don't give in to their hysteria. The more they can be exposed for their lies, the better. Let them become more radical rather than us.
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I was disgusted that the Catholic church used something as innocent as a marching band as an opportunity to frighten people. So their priests can molest children in every state but a gay and lesbian marching band is accused of playing at a street festival that somehow involves sexuality and that is worse?
The Catholic church and the Mormon church should both lose their tax free status.-
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crespi1 year ago
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What no one mentions is that most gay people are religious or want to be religious and just want to be accepted in a normal congregation.
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It's just that the secular among us are the ones who tend to stand up for their rights to do so...
Funny world, eh? -
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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If there is no "gay and secular fascism" in this country how do you explain the attacks on the Mormon Church and other groups supporting proposition 8. Their own actions speak to that issue.
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All churches that hold that the Bible is the word of God MUST be opposed to the homosexual life style. If God says it is an abomination how else should they act? You foolish people just want to make believe that does not exist. Homosexuals then accuse people of being homophobes. Pushing that label on people who have disagreements about it does not make it reality except in their own mind. What homosexuals never understand is that Christians separate the act from the person. We hate the act but love the person. I believe that just makes them angrier.-
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jovial1 year ago
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Homosexuals in this country have taken far more than they ever dished out. So are you saying if they protest and bring attention to their plight they automattically become fascists? I haven't read the entire Bible, but could you show me where the bible says that homosexuality is an abomination?
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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jovial1 year ago
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Thanks. I found this bit of info.
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The Torah is composed of the first five books of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). It contains numerous laws which make up the Mosaic code. Rabbi Simlai wrote in the Talmud (Jewish traditional commentary about the Hebrew Scriptures) that God gave 613 commandments to Moses. One list finds 3 commandments in Genesis, 111 in Exodus, 247 in Leviticus, 52 in Numbers and 200 in Deuteronomy. These included 365 prohibitions -- a number equal to the nominal number of days in the year. Also included are 248 positive commandments which Rabbi Simlai said corresponded "to the number of organs and limbs in the human body." Hundreds of these dealt with animal sacrifices and other topics that are not currently practiced. That leaves about 300 commandments that can be practiced today.
The Holiness Code in the Torah permits:
slavery (Leviticus 25:44)
A child to be killed if he/she curses their parent (Leviticus 20:9)
All persons guilty of adultery to be killed (20:10)
The daughter of a priest who engages in prostitution to be burned alive until dead (21:9)
The bride of a priest to be a virgin (21:13)
Ritual killing of animals, using cattle, sheep and goats (22:19)
Observation of 7 feasts: Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Firstfruits, Feast of Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles (23)
A person who takes the Lord's name in vain is to be killed (24:16)
The code prohibits:
Heterosexual intercourse when a woman has her period (Leviticus 18:19),
Harvesting the corners of a field (19:9),
Eating fruit from a young tree (19:23),
Cross-breeding livestock (19:19),
Sowing a field with mixed seed (19:19),
Shaving or getting a hair cut (19:27),
Tattoos (19:28),
Even a mildly disabled person from becoming a priest (21:18),
Charging of interest on a loan (25:37),
Collecting firewood on Saturday to prevent your family from freezing,
Wearing of clothes made from a blend of textile materials; today this might be cotton and polyester, and
Eating of non-kosher foods (e.g. shrimp).-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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So do you have any understanding of the why of those things or are you just trying to spout hatred for the Bible. Looks like the latter to me. Did you also read that every 7 years was a time of celebration, a Jubilee.. All slaves were freed, all land returned to the original owners, all debts canceled, etc. Left that one out didn't you.
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Some of those things only applied to special people. The no shaving or haircut was a sign that the person was set aside for something special. Samson was one of them. That is why when his hair was cut his strength left him.
A disable person could not be a priest because of the demands that they faced at certain times. They would do the sacrifices and that demanded someone of whole body.
Harvesting from the corners of the field was forbidden so the poor could get their food there. Horrible thing right.
Not eating non kosher foods has been proven to be very healthy. A lot of diseases were transmitted back then. Trichinosis form pork not cooked well enough etc.
All of the rest of these things have a reasonable explanation if you care to take the time to find out. But that is not your desire is it.-
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Dionys1 year ago
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"Did you also read that every 7 years was a time of celebration, a Jubilee"
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I guess you don't read the Bible.
Or did you mean 49 years when you said 7.
Everything has a rational explanation?
How about the prohibition against cutting the corners of one's hair. Where are those corners?
Or the one that said you cannot weave mixed threads (specifically wool and linen)?
Or plant two different seeds in the same plot of land (do you use mixed shade/sun grass seed -- if so, you're in violation of Biblical law)?-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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There was the 49 year one and a 7 year one. Different rules applied to them. I may have the rule mixed up but the idea is the same.
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The cutting the of hair I explained above.
How many farmers plant two kinds of seeds in the same field? None I know of. It doesn't say two varieties of the same kind.
How many different clothes are mad out of those two different threads? None I know of.
Why are we adhering to those concepts today? You are stretching the meaning to get your definition.
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Bluedragon9121 year ago
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Two can play at that game. Would you also agree with Leviticus about food?
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If so, you can't eat:
-pork (Doesn't chew cud) Lev 11:7
-shrimp (No fins or scales) Lev 11:9
-lobster (same) Lev 11:9
Most people don't listen to Leviticus about anything. Why cherry-pick certain phrases?
Nevermind that Leviticus also:
-Defines humans in shekels (Leviticus 27:3-7)
-Outcasts handicapped people (Lev 21:16-23)
-Okays cannibalism (Lev 26:29)
-Condemns keeping track of times (Lev 19:26)-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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My my. You also like to cherry pick the Bible. Kosher foods have been proven to be a very healthy diet. Did you know the prohibition against mixing beef and milk has been found to be a good idea. If you eate beef the intestines do not pass the calcium in the milk.
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Dionys1 year ago
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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You are ignoring what the Bible says and going into the rabbinical teachings. There is a difference. The Bible talks about having them at the same time. Rabbis then said also you could not cook them together and extended that to the pots that they were cooked in. This is one of the things Jesus talked about the religious leaders adding to the burdens of the people. The Bible never said anything about the pots. That was extended from the eating together prohibition.
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tchef1 year ago
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Most of the rules of the old testament were wiped out by the New Testament. All sins are forgiven to the believer. And you are not judge lest ye also be judged. I think that the faithful in this country need to tend more to the needs of those in their flock and less to those who are not.
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I used to be a Christian. The more I learned out the church and it's beliefs the more my faith left me. If there is a God, I'm sure that the Christian God is not it.
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hamy1 year ago
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So it was love that took the rights away from the people of California?
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Puh-leaze.
And the mormon church and catholic church are getting a "counter-attack." It's very different. They are finally seeing that their actions have reactions. If they fight to take rights away from American citizens, then American citizens are going to fight back.
You can't attack for years and then suddenly play the victim. Doesn't work. That dog won't hunt.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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What a way to twist words. Do you practice that a lot. Take thing that are said and twist them around to what was not said.
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I love the "taking away the rights" part. There was never a right for homosexual marriage but it was created out of thin air. Then you make the claim that it is being taken away from you. Try again. Talk about a real right not a made up one. For several millennium a marriage was between a man and a woman sometimes with multiple women or in one culture multiple men. But always the sex act was between a man and a woman in marriage. The ancient Greeks liked the homosexual act but always made marriage a sacred thing between a man and a woman. You people just pull that right out of thin air and get upset when the vast majority of the country are against it. Tough.-
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hamy1 year ago
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You might want to do just a little research before you open your yap.
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Gay people were not only granted the right to marry in California recently, but also in the Christian church. In fact, there are two saints who were married in the church. The were obviously gay and are now saints!
http://www.propeller.com/story/2007/02/04/st-serge...
So what was pulled out of thin air?
And just because you THINK I twisted your words, I didn't. Those are your words. I just made you finally see how ridiculous your arguement is. It is based on nothing but your own personal prejudices.
All of the churches in my neighborhood have rainbow stickers on their signs. Do you know what that means? It means that they are what is called inclusive. So instead of saying WE DON'T WANT YOU TO WORSHIP OUR GOD! They are saying PLEASE COME AND WORSHIP WITH US WHOEVER YOU ARE!
Isn't God love? That's what Jesus taught.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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I was talking about since this was a country. A judge said that it was legal in California. A referendum to settle the matter and make it law passed by a wide majority. The judges decided to overturn the will of the people and overturned that law passed by the people. That brought up proposition 8.
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Judges created out of thin air the "right" and the people twice rejected those judges. You don't get it. The people of this country reject that as a right. If not explicitly stated in the constitution then it is the right of the state to settle the matter. Well they are by the will of the people. You are running out of states.
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Will13131 year ago
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so protest marches are now ATTACKS..
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the mormon church thru donations ATTACKED the gay and lesbian couples. and their rights..
they ask to be attacked... and they are getting what they ask for...
like i said before stick you nose in someone elses business and you're gonna get punched..
ANY CHURCH THAT ACTIVELY CAMPAIGNS SHOULD HAVE THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS REVOKED ..-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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Going into a worship service and doing a rant and some other demonstrations and disrupting the service is a little more than a just a protest march. Destructive attacks on the building is a little more than a protest march.
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The expression of belief in a public issue being voted on is now attacking others. What a concept.
They asked to be attacked by saying what they believed on an issue on the ballot.
Talking about an issue on the ballot is sticking your nose where it does not belong.
Do you understand how foolish those statements sound. Where does it say in the constitution that religious organizations have had the freedom of speech removed from them? Why do you say that foolish hate speech.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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You have no understanding of what you speak. There is no profit in a church. That makes them exempt from being taxed since the tax is on a profit. Try again.
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The church I belong to caries a "slush fund" to even out the ups and downs of giving. But in the end there is no profit. Anything left over is given to the poor. How much do you give to the poor. How many people do you help out. My church spent over $30,000 helping out the needy this past year. It looks like it will have to be bigger this coming year. How much do you give to help people. Liberals according to the polls give only a fraction that conservatives do. Walk the walk and not just talk the talk.-
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Will13131 year ago
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How much do you give to help people
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i PERSONALLY organized a drive for items for the troops.. over 2 years ago.. we've collected and shipped over 250 boxes of items..
such as but not limited to...
phone cards..
toothpaste
toothbrushes
tampax.. they use them for wounds...
kotex
super glue.. also wounds..
deoderant
soap
and their favorite.. HICKORY FARMS GIFT SETS...
all from heathen bar going people.. I've donated my own time to pack and ship
ALL MONEY COLLECTED EITHER GOES TO THE ITEMS OR SHIPPING COSTS..
I'VE GOT WELL OVER 400 HOURS IN PERSONAL TIME INVOLVED AND PURCHASED ALL THE HICKORY FARMS GIFT SETS LEFT OVER LAST CHRISTMAS AT THE LOCAL K-MART.. OVER 500 OUT OF POCKED MY POCKET..
DON'T STAND ON YOUR SOAP BOX TO ME.. ASSHOLE.. I DID THIS WITH A GOD DAMN PREACHER DIPPING HIS FINGERS INTO THE PIE..
GOT IT..
SLUSH FUND INDEED.. MORE LIKE PREACHER'S RETIREMENT..
AND BEST OF ALL
I DIDN'T TAKE ANY TAX DEDUCTION..
what have YOU PERSONALLY done... not much .. 30K a drop in the bucket.. as very small drop..
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Justice4All1 year ago
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I think all marrage should be outlawed. It's actually the lawyers who promote marrage. There's no money to be made if people were able to split based on common rules regarding assets and child support. They need to be able to drag it into court and argue over things that should be law and not open to discussion.
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If you want to promote gay marrage just let the lawyers see how much money they can make from gay divorce.-
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Progressive1 year ago
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Good point, and there have already been a few gay divorces, but keep in mind that, for many years now, common law marriages and similar cohabiting arrangements, both gay and straight, have also resulted in expensive, high profile litigation upon termination.
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vor1 year ago
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Have spent almost 30 years now with the same woman (with a few breaks). I often tell her that if we were married in our early 20's we would likely not be speaking to each other at all. Instead will still talk for hours every day. I could care less about a piece of paper. Nor do I care about the minor financial benefits of marriage. The one issue where things get thorny is medical insurance. But when she got very sick a couple of years ago she was able to get assistance from PPA and that has made things quite manageable. My income would have prevented that if we had been married. And my insurance wouldn't have covered much of anything because it was a pre-existing illness prior to my hire date. Marriage is overvalued.
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I truly believe we suffered through 8 years of GW Bush because thie gay agenda was pushed so hard, particulary in '00 when there were numerous state referendums on the issue. Clearly cost Gore some votes and brought out the evangelicals. If gays would just be patient they would see that the youth of today is far more tolerant on this issue than their parents. So in time they will have their way. That is unless someone like Palin gets in and we start getting all theocratic.-
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hamy1 year ago
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Personally, I would rather fight to ensure that the generation coming up has an easier road than I did than to simply sit back and hope for my rights to be instated some day.
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I'd rather die on my feet knowing that I did something to make a difference rather than sitting in a chair hoping for someone else to do it.
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Albmore1 year ago
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Lets look at this from a different view, first gays are humans and therfore a creation of God. 2nd. God has given us the right to choose. Let no man take awy what God has given. The bible calls homosexualitate a sin. We cannot expect christians to condon homosexuality nor think they should have gay marrigaes in the church, because it goes against the word of God.
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On the other hand Christians must realize the authority of judgement was left in Jesus's hands not ours. No where in the bible does it tell us to act like many of christians do. Christians are suppose to be the light in this world not the lawyer or judge. Convertion comes through the heartsmof man and through the spirit. Lets let Jesus do the job as judge as God has appointed him, and let us show the compassion and love of God as Jesus has appointed us to do.-
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hamy1 year ago
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Um...not everyone is a literalist when it comes to the bible. Some of us have studied what it means in the context of the times when it was written and therefore see no difference between what it says about shellfish and what it says about "lying with a man."
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And some of us believe that God made us this way and God doesn't make mistakes. We were made to be gay. That is how I have been since I was a child and how I will always be. -
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin1 year ago
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''The bible calls homosexualitate a sin.''
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Know the bible pretty well, and take away the Torah and the book of Romans chapter one, and the bible could give a fig about gays.
The Prophets were concerning with fidelity to Jehovah and ethics, or the treatment of people by people [a huge chunk of the book] and its most important figure never says anything about homosexuality at all
If anyone wants to quote me a bible passage outside the books I mentioned, I'll be happy to read it.-
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Endoscopy1 year ago
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The following from the NIV
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1 Corinthinians 6:9-11
6. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.-
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Will13131 year ago
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The following from the NIV
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gay haters... love that version.. try the King James version
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
bullet effeminate. In the English language, this covers a wide range of male behavior such as being unmanly, lacking virility. One might think of the characters "John," the receptionist on NYPD Blue, or "Jack" on Will and Grace.
bullet homosexuals, variously described as:
bullet "men who practice homosexuality," (ESV);
bullet "those who participate in homosexuality," (Amplified);
bullet "abusers of themselves with men," (KJV);
bullet "practicing homosexuals," (NAB);
bullet "homosexuals," (NASB, CSB, NKJ, The Great Book: The New Testament in Plain English);
bullet "homosexual perversion," (NEB);
bullet "homosexual offenders," (NIV);
bullet "liers with mankind," (Rhiems); and
bullet "homosexual perverts." (TEV)
Although "homosexual" is a very common translation, it is almost certain to be inaccurate:
bullet If Paul wanted to refer to homosexual behavior, he would have used the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual behavior between males.
stretching the truth Endo is the same as LYING.. which you do constantly..
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Dionys1 year ago
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"The bible calls homosexualitate a sin"
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No. It doesn't. In the original language, it only states that one, specific, male-on-male sexual act is considered a 'sin.' Not homosexuality in general, or specificity. There's nothing in there about Lesbians.
"We cannot expect christians to condon homosexuality nor think they should have gay marrigaes in the church, because it goes against the word of God."
Homosexual marriage isn't against the word of God or Christ. Neither is homosexuality. It is, however, a doctrinal sin.
"let us show the compassion and love of God as Jesus"
Yep. There you go.
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djn3nunez31 year ago
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If it's a current Christian thing, marriage between one man and one woman (as muslims can have multiple wives), then isn't forcing that Christian religious doctrine on the rest of the folk in American society a violation of the First Amendment to the Consitution?
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toph19731 year ago
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Who are these idiots that try and tell everyone how to live? Why does religion think that it's perfectly reasonable to preach racism and hatred from the pulpit every Sunday. Who are these morons who think that taking away other peoples rights as human beings are okay?
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Why is it that people that are religious think that this is okay as well? Religion is the root of all evil. It's too bad the people in this day and age feel that they need to have their minds enslaved to an evil organization. This is why I have very little respect for religious people. Dispicable. -
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Poulenc1 year ago
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Let people believe what they wish to as long as their beliefs don't abrogate my rights--or even threaten them.
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Those who think gayness is wrong or that two people of the same sex shouldn't marry are free to do so as long as their beliefs aren't legislated into law, or prohibited from legality.
I'm putting aside the issue of the primitivism or moral obtuseness that I believe characterizes the thinking of those who believe that gay people are somehow wrong to be such, or to marry.-
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Jeboba1 year ago
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I am sick and tired of the fundamentalists FORCING their beliefs on those of us who choose not to follow their distorted, demented, perverted view of the teachings of Jesus Christ. They are all about money, politics, and power. They violate everything the bible teaches about charity, tolerance, forgiveness, acceptance.
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They should lose all tax free status for interfering in our government by putting their stricty religious, such as One Man One Woman, issues on our political ballots!
IF they would keep their religion in their churches, I promise I would keep my government outside. Otherwise, they need to become extinct as tax free entities and the government can do with them what they will!-
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Albmore1 year ago
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I do not consider this forcing their beleifs on you, one of the biggest problems is that both sides want to take each others right of freedom of speech away. If this is how the religious right feels then it is their right to express it. The conflicting argument can and should also be expressed and then a decission can be made acoordingly. Is that not the principles OUR land were based on.
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I do not care what the issue is, we have to stop letting ourselves be divided into groups. OUR division has allowed the government to run away with their powers.
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Poulenc1 year ago
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Endoscopy, above: "Homosexuals started the Gay and Proud concept and have been in peoples faces ever since. So don't try that 'not force' stuff on me. They have parades pushing themselves on people. They have the in your face concept in many places."
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Yes, it's well known that if you have a parade you're forcing yourself/ves on others. That's why I protest the St. Patrick's Day Parade, lest the Irish force their Irishness on me.
What Endoscopy really dislikes is the feelings that gayness--having to see, hear, or think about it--engenders in him/her. It's called projection: you hate in others what you've (unconsciously) judged yourself wrong for feeling.
Got it, Endoscopy? -
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Will1313Comment removed: Spam
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