The Grotesque Irony about Gaza - Robert Fisk, The Independent »
Posted By gamahuche 10 months, 1 week ago in News
The tragic irony of the Gaza conflict is that the original, legal owners of the Israeli land, on which Hamas rockets are detonating, live in Gaza..
That is why Gaza exists: because the Palestinians who lived in Ashkelon and the fields around it – Askalaan in Arabic – were dispossessed from their lands in 1948 when Israel was created and ended up on the beaches of Gaza. They – or their children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren – are among the one and a half million Palestinian refugees crammed into the cesspool of Gaza, 80 per cent of whose families once lived in what is now Israel. This, historically, is the real story: most of the people of Gaza don't come from Gaza.
Read Full Story at independent.co.uk »
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gamahuche
"I would rather be a square peg than fit in a pigeon hole" -
an essay which won me the "Lamb Essay Prize" at the Religious ...
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gamahuche10 months, 1 week ago
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This is Robert Fisk's commentary on the Gaza situation. He has a rightful claim to be one of the most experienced journalists in the Middle Eastern and Asian environments and his overview is incisive and extremely pessimistic of the future of the Palestinians.
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Taken together with the lead story in the Independent today, referenced below, this offers a very dismal prospect. The UN has been hijacked by the US and is toothless. You and I are going to watch this tragedy unfold and be unable to prevent it. This can only be acceptable to someone with a complete failure of comprehension or someone who is willing to allow Israel a free rein to wipe out a nation and its people;
to remain silent in the face of a humanitarian tragedy.
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This is the main headline-story in today's "Independent."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...-
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AnteUp10 months, 1 week ago
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Thanks for the head's up, Gama. Mr. Fisk is responsible for a good deal of
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my skepticism on reports from the region. Years ago - his account of ambulances
being targeted by the Israelis in Lebanon. I had NEVER - EVER, believed that
such behaviour was possible from the Israelis. It was a very unpleasant awakening
to a controlled media presence in the USA. -
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aceofspades110 months, 1 week ago
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Gamahuche - or should I call you by what your name realy means - BJ? - nice rant about the rightful heirs to the land of Israel - but when is indignation when it come to Dar fur or Chechnya or the Balkans or Georgia ? Oh yeah come think of it they ain't Jews.
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Endoscopy10 months, 1 week ago
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What the story leaves out is the sequence of events.
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Israel was created in 1948.
Immediately the Muslims surrounding it attacked at the same time telling Muslims living there to leave while the Army of Islam drove the Jews into the sea and killed them there.
A significant portion of the Muslims left.
After the war was lost by the Muslims the ones that left wanted to go to Muslim countries to live.
They were denied entry by all Muslim countries.
A few went back to their homes and lived there.
The rest created their own ghettos to live in.
Today those who stayed or went back immediately are full Israeli citizens and have members in the Knesset and a supreme court jurist.
So why did those compassionate Muslim countries refuse to let them come and live there? -
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hyperbola10 months, 1 week ago
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Indeed Endo, you do know that zionists invented the car bomb and were the first to use it against civilians?
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The Poor Man's Air Force
A History of the Car Bomb (Part 1)
...Buda's wagon was, in essence, the prototype car bomb: the first use of an inconspicuous vehicle, anonymous in almost any urban setting, to transport large quantities of high explosive into precise range of a high-value target. It was not replicated, as far as I have been able to determine, until January 12, 1947 when the Stern Gang drove a truckload of explosives into a British police station in Haifa, Palestine, killing 4 and injuring 140. The Stern Gang (a pro-fascist splinter group led by Avraham Stern that broke away from the right-wing Zionist paramilitary Irgun) would soon use truck and car bombs to kill Palestinians as well...
...The members of the Stern Gang were ardent students of violence, self-declared Jewish admirers of Mussolini who steeped themselves in the terrorist traditions of the pre-1917 Russian Socialist-Revolutionary Party, the Macedonian IMRO, and the Italian Blackshirts. As the most extreme wing of the Zionist movement in Palestine -- "fascists" to the Haganah and "terrorists" to the British -- they were morally and tactically unfettered by considerations of diplomacy or world opinion. They had a fierce and well-deserved reputation for the originality of their operations and the unexpectedness of their attacks. On January 12, 1947, as part of their campaign to prevent any compromise between mainstream Zionism and the British Labor government, they exploded a powerful truck bomb in the central police station in Haifa, resulting in 144 casualties. Three months later, they repeated the tactic in Tel Aviv, blowing up the Sarona police barracks (5 dead) with a stolen postal truck filled with dynamite.
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Thinker2210 months, 1 week ago
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> ...the original, legal owners of the Israeli land, on which Hamas rockets are detonating, live in Gaza..
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At this point Mr. Fisk was supposed to triumfantly produce the official deeds showing that the Arabs (and Arabs only) are "the original, legal owners of the Israeli land"...
I'm waiting... THE WORLD IS WAITING, Mr.Fisk!
Can you help him, gamahuche? It seems that even this "one of the most experienced journalists in the Middle Eastern and Asian environments' has troubles supporting his claims... :)-
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gamahuche10 months, 1 week ago
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HannibalBarca10 months, 1 week ago
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Thinker; what would you or USA do if a Sioux presented you with one of the countless treaties that an American Gov made with them and broke;, would there be a back spin ?
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It is too late to right the wrongs of 48;, there were some reasons it happened, not valid, but reasons none the less.
The here and now is that for Israel it is survival. for Palestinians it is give me my land back, and the west prefers the Israel Gov. over a Palestinian one, so that is what will be -
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Goppy10 months, 1 week ago
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But gamahuche, this situation mirrors EXACTLY the birth of most nations.
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Nomads and rootless people were ALWAYS moved aside for people with a vision for a nation.
Why, America would not even exist if your point of view carried the day. At some point, nomads were push aside to form the Czech nation.
Native American Indians roamed EVERY BIT of what is now the 48 states. Every square mile. Eskimos and Inuits and Tglits roamed Alaska. Native Hawaiians' were sovereign rulers of Hawaii.
In all cases, incoming settlers pushed them into 'refugee camps' and developed the United States of America.
Was that fair?
No ... it was a horrible human catastrophe. But it was the birth of something wonderful.
And this has been how nations have been founded since the beginning of time.
Perhaps we're upset with Jews for doing this in a modern age ... but remember, Jews began emigrating in larger numbers after the Balfour Declaration of 1917.
In 1917, America was STILL pushing Indians to reservations.
And it would be still be 24 more years before Russia STOLE a large part of POLAND from the Poles.
Why isn't Russia being condemned for stealing huge sections of Poland?
I believe Israel has earned their right to exist.
The Palestinians have had numerous opportunities to accept sovereign control over the West Bank and Gaza.
They have refused ... preferring instead to remain at war with Israel .... and to plot the eradication of Israel.
If that's what Palestinians are living for ... I say ... have at it.
But if you want peace ... if you want to prosper ... if you want to benefit from Israel's economy ... then all you have to do is say ... "we want to live in peace".
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slate10 months, 1 week ago
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ekklesiawarrior10 months, 1 week ago
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Thinker22 , good on you!
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In 1917 as Turkey gave up occupied land , lost in WWI . The British set out that this tiny area to be called PALESTINE as the home for the Jewish people, thus was land WEST of the river.Jordan The land EAST was called Trans Jordan.
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Grrr10 months, 1 week ago
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Yes, now both the US AND Israel have proven they are no less terrorists than those they presume to wage war against. If they want my support, they MUST stop murdering innocent civilians just because avoiding such casualties would be militarily 'inconvenient'.
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Goppy10 months, 1 week ago
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Agreed ... US and Israel are terrorists ... but then ... Hamas has been lobbing missiles into Israel for months ... so ... they are terrorists as well.
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Do I sound like an apologist for Israel?
I'm not.
I'm a big fan of peace and negotiation.
And I'm pretty jaded at the Palestinians refusal ... after 40 years ... to create peace ... when it is clearly their choice to do so.
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Georgia5010 months, 1 week ago
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Yet Fatah, on the West Bank, despite a history that Fisk would agree is parallel to the Gazans in his narrative, are on their way to making peace with Israel.
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The Gazans do not want and will not accept any peace that includes any semblance of Israeli sovereignty.-
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Thinker2210 months, 1 week ago
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> ...Fatah, on the West Bank, despite a history that Fisk would agree is parallel to the Gazans in his narrative, are on their way to making peace with Israel.
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I doubt it. After all, it was Arafat the head of Fatah, who rejected peace with Israel back in August, 2000.
In addition, the Palestinian Charter (yes, the moderate" Fatah Charter) still declares that ANY settlement not involving destruction of Israel is unacceptable.
Somehow I trust the Palestinian Charter (Constitution) more than wishful thinking of those or other polticians.
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bruhaha10 months, 1 week ago
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Neither side is blameless, as some on both sides seem to argue. Lobbing rockets into israel only causes increased anger towards the Palestinians, damaging any empathy towards their situation.
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On the Israeli side, the building and support of settlements further angers the Palestinians and gives ammunition to the extremists in Hamas and other organizations.
These and many other problems are what make the situation much more complicated. -
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jordan1110 months, 1 week ago
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Who controlled Palestinian territory before its division? Britain did. They carved it up, naming half as the kingdom of Jordan. The remainder was given to the UN to divide after WW11. The Palestinian territory was not 'Muslim' in the first half of the 20th century.
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Zionists wanted the land Britain controlled as 'their' homeland. The world didn't want to allow displaced Jewish people into their countries, including the US. Many Jewish people running from Hitler were denied entrance, including entrance to our country. Anti Semitism was alive and well all over the world, not just in Germany.
Giving Palestinian territory to the Jewish people was an answer to what to do about displaced Jewish people. Britain gave the task to carve them a state to the UN.
It's all very complicated after that, with stories of the Arab people being abused by the newest tenants of the territory, or vise versa. For this reason, I withhold my opinion of who is right or wrong, and assume the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I won't say that Israeli's are all right, and I won't say that Arabs are all wrong. I'll just wait until some semblance of objectivity and verifiable facts come along that are in depth in their reporting.-
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Thinker2210 months, 1 week ago
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Let me ask you (and those blaming "both sides" equally) a couple of simple questions:
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1. If tomorrow Israel will remove ALL settlements, ALL military bases, ALL Israeli facilities of any kind and will withdraw to the 1949 cease fire lines --WILL THERE BE PEACE (YES/NO)?
2. If tomorrow Palestinians will stop violence and will declare that they're willing to recognize Israel and negotiate a peace agreement -- WILL THERE BE PEACE (YES/NO)? -
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Thinker2210 months, 1 week ago
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> They carved it up, naming half as the kingdom of Jordan.
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Not exactly. As a matter of fact, Jordan comprises 80% of Palestine.
> I withhold my opinion of who is right or wrong...
It does not really matter now. Way more important is to find a solution to the conflict. It seems to me that the only possible way to do it is through a NEGOTIATED MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLE PEACE AGREEMENT but this requires BOTH sides to be ABLE AND WILLING to negotiate peace. -
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hyperbola10 months, 1 week ago
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Actually jordan, your assertions about jewish emigration from Europe are not entirely correct. Zionists were quite happy to let jews who did not want to go to Palestine die. Indeed, Roosevelt himself complained that zionists in America prevented more jews from coming to the US because they wanted to force them to go to palestine.
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Ten questions to the Zionists
by Rabbi Michael Dov Weissmandl
1. IS IT TRUE that in 1941 and again in 1942, the German Gestapo offered all European Jews transit to Spain, if they would relinquish all their property in Germany and Occupied France; on condition that:
a) none of the deportees travel from Spain to Palestine; and
b) all the deportees be transported from Spain to the USA or British colonies, and there to remain; with entry visas to be arranged by the Jews living there; and
c) $1000.00 ransom for each family to be furnished by the Agency, payable upon the arrival of the family at the Spanish border at the rate of 1000 families daily.
...
3. IS IT TRUE that the answer of the Zionist leaders was negative, with the following comments:
a) ONLY Palestine would be considered as a destination for the deportees.
b) The European Jews must accede to suffering and death greater in measure than the other nations, in order that the victorious allies agree to a "Jewish State" at the end of the war.
c) No ransom will be paid
...
7. IS IT TRUE that during the height of the killings in the war, 270 Members of the British Parliament proposed to evacuate 500,000 Jews from Europe, and resettle them in British colonies, as a part of diplomatic negotiations with Germany.
8. IS IT TRUE that this offer was rejected by the Zionist leaders with the observation "Only to Palestine!"
.....
http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/tenquestions.htm
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not2needy10 months, 1 week ago
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Eagle_Eye10 months, 1 week ago
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I agree n2n, I think they are very uncivilized and childish, thousands of lives have been ended or ruined over a piece of land and religion. This is a sad happening and IMHO the UN needs to be kicked out of the US and relocated over in Israel, perhaps then they can do the job they should of done years ago.
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I'm tired of hosting an organization of nations who's members live the high life here with diplomatic immunity but don't do a whole lot for the world. -
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Natureboy10 months, 1 week ago
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"These countries have been at war for so many centuries that forming an opinion of who's right and who's wrong is almost impossible, for me."
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First off, Israel wasn't around until 1948, so "at war for so many centuries" is a non-sequitur.
Beyond that, this is the western cop-out, the idea that they all have that crazy religion, and will fight forever no matter what happens.
It is the same line, recycled, that the US used to bury its head in the sand over the troubles in Ireland.
It is bogus.
Consider, at least briefly, that those involved in the present conflict are just as sane and rational as you are, and are fighting over such things as land, natural resources, and the right to self-determination. These are the things wars are fought over.
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DarkWizard10 months, 1 week ago
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Goppy says, "If you DON'T think Israel has a right to exist ... well ... I guess the idea would be that Israel should simply allow every nation in the world to launch bombs, rockets, mortars, ... heck ... even a nuclear bomb might be acceptable ... I'm sure hyperbola would have no problem with that."
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And,
“However, they have chosen to reject numerous Peace Proposals .. .. because they simply cannot accept that Israel still exists.”
I've read all the comments and read both articles (this one posted by gamahuche and one posted by guyro earlier).
I also agree with HannibalBarca’s analogy of the barroom fight.
jordan11’s recap of historical events is what I’ve seen many times in books and documentaries about how Israel became a nation. Personally, I would not use the Bible as a legal document, but in these documentaries, there was also some contention that Israel was basically being given back land it had previously occupied in biblical times. This also lends some credence to the statement by Thinker22 about showing a deed.
However, if one looks at this objectively, it is easy to realize, that what this really boils down to is whether the people of Israel have a right to their own nation and, if so, whether that nation should exist in the Middle East.
Another way to look at this is: If you dissolve the nation of Israel, where do you put all those displaced people? And, will the ME suddenly become a calm and peaceful place to live without Israel?-
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Thinker2210 months, 1 week ago
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> ...what this really boils down to is whether the people of Israel have a right to their own nation and, if so, whether that nation should exist in the Middle East.
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The first part of this question is a YES/NO question and a NO answer (Israel DOES NOT have a right to their own nation) is, obviously, a racist one which is not acceptable to most people.
The second part of it can be anwsered no less easily. Israel ALREADY EXIST so the question about it's existence in the Middle East is as relevant as the question of the existence of Japan in the Japanese Islands.
> If you dissolve the nation of Israel, where do you put all those displaced people? And, will the ME suddenly become a calm and peaceful place to live without Israel?
To answer this question one must consider that Israel is believed to have one of five most powerful militaries on the planet and that it is believed to have hundreds of nuclear devices as well as means to deliver these devices to any point on the planet. This means that an attempt to "dissolve" the nation of Israel will practically end the human civilization as we know it... and NO, the ME will not become peceful as a result. -
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hyperbola10 months, 1 week ago
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Why would you want to increase the racism in the world by recognizing a "jewish state"?
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Revoking Israel's UN Membership
The 1976 Nobel peace prize laureate, Mairead McGuire from Ireland, recently suggested a popular movement demanding that the UN revoke Israel’s membership. The international community now needs to put tangible pressure on Israel in order to stop its war crimes.
Not once, during the past 60 years, has Israel shown any intention of living up to the requirements stipulated by the UN, in connection with the country’s membership in 1948, namely that the Palestinians who had been evicted from their homes should be allowed to return at the earliest possible opportunity. Moreover, Israel holds the hardly flattering world record of ignoring UN resolutions.
It can be questioned from the aspect of human rights legislation whether Israel is a legitimate state....
... Why does nobody ever comment on the fact that Israel’s prime minister never misses an opportunity to harp on about how important it is that the rest of the world and the Palestinians recognise Israel, not as a democratic country for all its citizens, but as a “Jewish state”?
What would we have said if South Africa’s Prime Minister, in a similar way, had demanded recognition of South Africa as a “white and democratic state”, thus de facto accepting the racist apartheid system that allowed non-whites to be classified as lesser human beings?...
In his article The end of Zionism, published in the Guardian on September the 15th 2003 the Jewish dissident and former speaker of Knesset, Avraham Burg wrote:
“Diaspora Jews for whom Israel is a central pillar of their identity must pay heed and speak out … We cannot keep a Palestinian majority under an Israeli boot and at the same time think ourselves the only democracy in the Middle East. There cannot be democracy without equal rights for all who live here, Arab as well as Jew ... The prime minister should present the choices forthrightly: Jewish racism or democracy.”
The UN should use the word apartheid in connection with Israel and consider sanctions with the former South Africa serving as a model. Miguel dÉscoto Brockman, president of the UN General Assembly, conveyed this message at a meeting on November 24th 2008 with the UN General Secretary Ban Ki-moon present.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/12/12/revoking... -
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avoth10 months, 1 week ago
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"If you dissolve the nation of Israel, where do you put all those displaced people?"
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The Arabs, as well as the anti-Israel posters on this thread, would love to see those people murdered. So putting them somewhere else is irrelevant. True, the posters would never have the honesty or integrity to admit that...but this constant undermining of Israel's legitimacy lends credence to the logical extension of their arguments.
"And, will the ME suddenly become a calm and peaceful place to live without Israel?"
No. Israel is first. The rest of the planet is next. The goal of Islam is world domination. Read the Koran. -
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Natureboy10 months, 1 week ago
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"Another way to look at this is: If you dissolve the nation of Israel, where do you put all those displaced people?"
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This is one of the great red herrings of the middle east conflict - The notion that anyone who calls for an end to Israel is calling for the extermination of the Israelis.
Dissolution of a nation does not necessarily displace people. The USSR was dissolved. Where did the people go? Nowhere, they just redefined their borders and restructured their governments.
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Justice4All10 months, 1 week ago
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DW: Another way to look at this is: If you dissolve the nation of Israel, where do you put all those displaced people? And, will the ME suddenly become a calm and peaceful place to live without Israel?
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Good point. But we already have a solution of sorts. Palestine was dissolved so where did we put all the displaced people? -
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Progressive10 months, 1 week ago
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Thanks for the invite, Gama. Having read all the articles and comments, I appreciate the varying viewpoints, but it still seems to me that there are no winners in this situation -- only losers and greater losers. I don't see anyone making any gains as a result of the increased hostilities, nor do I believe anything can be accomplished until all parties are brought to the table and forced to hammer out an equitable solution for all.
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pcknowledge10 months, 1 week ago
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For people who are defending Israel, I have a question. Why?
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How many times has Israel stabbed us in the back? I don't think we have any friends in that part of the world, and we should not be taking sides. As for Israel, I actually used to support them to. Until I did some reading & learned how many times they have stabbed us in the back. As for Palestine, I agree Hamas is a terrorist organization. Besides killing innocent civilians in Israel, they are not doing the Palestinians a favor with the methods they use. With that said, Israel does channel most of the water that flows in the rivers in the area into Israel, and leaves the Palestinians with less water, and far less resources. Also, Palestinians (including innocent women & children) are humiliated unneccesarily at the checkpoints by the IDF. That type of humiliation is completly unwarranted. Using cluster bombs in Lebanon because of allegedly 2 kidnapped Israeli soldiers wasn't appropriate either. Neither side is using methods conducive to a peaceful resolution.-
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avoth10 months, 1 week ago
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"For people who are defending Israel, I have a question. Why?"
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So that we have a place to go when people like you threaten our existence. Your false perceptions about Israel is just an excuse. When people hate Jews, they come up with all kinds of excuses. Israel is "the worlds Jew" so they come up with all kinds of misdeeds.
Israel is not perfect; neither is any other country in the world, including the US.
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mrlecher10 months, 1 week ago
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Israelis have never stopped murdering Palestinians, NEVER!
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Since September 29, 2000
Israelis have murdered 4876 Palestinians to 1062 Israelis murdered by Palestinians.
123 Israeli children have been murdered, 1050 Palestinian children. (At least Palestinian have the guts to attack adults)
8431 Israelis have been injured, 33,034 Palestinians.
Israelis are murdering 2 Palestinians per day. You would think they would get ******.
What would YOU do if 3000 Americans were killed by a foreign entity?-
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most_reasonable10 months, 1 week ago
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You wonder why the Israelis shoot at the murderers who attack school buses, not by accident but on purpose. The arab trick of shooting behind the body off one of their children is pretty disgusting but a time honored practice.
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Yesterday one of the arabs mentioned how Gaza was a hell hole, not because of the Israeli attacks on the Hamas, but because the Hamas had created a atmosphere of fear driven by executions and Assassination on a daily basis.
Islam,the cure for civilization. -
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gamahuche10 months, 1 week ago
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"What would YOU do if 3000 Americans were killed by a foreign entity?"
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Attack a country that had nothing to do with it and kill a lot MORE people there.
Create an offshore torture centre in another enemy country.
Destroy the domestic economy and head towards becoming a giant banana republic, minus bananas.
Have shoes thrown at you.
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Thinker2210 months, 1 week ago
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> Since September 29, 2000
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Israelis have murdered 4876 Palestinians to 1062 Israelis murdered by Palestinians.
I would think that starting the terrorist war known as the Intifadah on September 29, 2000 was not such a great idea, don't you agree? Maybe, you would recommend the Palestinians to put an end to it after more than eight years and about 5,000 deaths?
On the other hand, if the Palestinians are still willng it to continue it means that they're happy with the results. It also means that they want more of the same and that you should not complain that the Palestinians are getting what they ask for.
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lloydm6510 months, 1 week ago
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To the lowlife terrorist in Gaza,if you are hell bent on firing rockets at a sovereign country stand up,and shut up.The very idea of crying crocodile tears over something you started is a crock in it self.The only people who give a big rats a$$ are the wimps,and weasels who wouldn't lift a finger to help these folks.When the Arab nations comes to it senses,and condemns hamas,and hezbolla,and also Iran who sponsors them maybe there will be stability,if not peace.
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andrewyesiam10 months, 1 week ago
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Mr. Fisk also has to realize that...Palestine was the name given to the area by the British; Earlier, the Roman conquerers called the area Palestina. The IsraELITES HAD THE LAND FIRST. aLSO, THE pALESTINIANS IN THE AREA DID DEVELOP THE AREA, AS THE iSRAELIS DID.Everyone seems to hate IsraEL. Yet, when Palestinians kill Israeli children, murder Israeli athletes at the 72 olympics, send suicide bombers into civilian Israeli communities, the world is silent. And, no, Im not Jewisj. -Andrew P
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mydavis10 months, 1 week ago
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All the middle east nations did not exist before WW2 in thier present form, they were a collection of sheiks/tribes/etc and they joined WW2 on the Axis (hitlers) side, they were defeated and when you lose a war, you lose territory, however the middle east nations did very well, the muslim nations were created by the UN during the same time Israel was created. This was the original homeland of the jews.
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And the palestinians werent there as a people, most of them got there escaping King Abdullah of Jordan, After trying to overthrow the king of Jordan, and bombed some sites in Jordan, the king had them slaughtered, and most escaped to the Coastal area which is now israel.
There were no palestinians, its a made up word. Thier homeland was in the area now called Jordan.
and the palestinians didnt develop the land at all, it was a crap hole desert during the time they were there.
All the jordanians /"palestinians" wanted to return to Jordan and petitioned the UN to the area of Jordan multiple countries.
They didnt want the land until the Jews starting growing oranges as big as softballs. In the words of the UN charter recommendation, "They have made the desert bloom and earned the right to thier own country"-
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reallypsst10 months, 1 week ago
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Exactly these were tribes fighting each other for water holes and scraps from their leaders with all the wealth from oil you would think the rich would help the poor no way ,the middle east could be a paradise but their ignorant religious tribal instincts keep them in the dark ages,And why is it that the rich send their children to america and england for education and technology instead of educating the poor in they country,the rich despise them but agree with their radical nature to appease and continue their rein of power!
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mydavis10 months, 1 week ago
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There were no palestinians, its a made up word. Thier homeland was in the area now called Jordan.
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and the palestinians didnt develop the land at all, it was a crap hole desert during the time they were there.
All the jordanians /"palestinians" wanted to return to Jordan and petitioned the UN to the area of Jordan multiple countries.
They didnt want the land until the Jews starting growing oranges as big as softballs. In the words of the UN charter recommendation, "They have made the desert bloom and earned the right to thier own country"-
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Justice4All10 months, 1 week ago
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This is always step 1. This kind of racism is part of the reason we can all see that Israel does not want peace. To start any negoation with the premise that your opponent never existed is oure arrogance.
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Palestine is on all my old maps.
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kadssg10 months, 1 week ago
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Isn't it ironic that the Israeli's owned this land several thousand years ago and are being threatened with being driven into the sea? Isn't it ironic that never before in the history of mankind have civilians -such as those in Israel - been considered to be targets? Isn't it ironic that Israel captured lands during wars - during which they were attacked - and that those lands are referred to as "occupied"? Isn't it ironic that Israel's only stated goal is that bombs not be hurled at their citizens - and somehow - someone thinks that Israel shouldn't retaliate?
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin10 months, 1 week ago
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couple of questions in response to two of your questions, except mine aren't rhetorical
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''Isn't it ironic that the Israeli's owned this land several thousand years ago and are being threatened with being driven into the sea?''
what was the basis of Israel's 'ownership'? who sold them the land? Who gave them a deed? what happened to the people who lived there before Israel owned it?
'' Isn't it ironic that never before in the history of mankind have civilians -such as those in Israel - been considered to be targets?''
uh...whaaaaa?
[you may want to refer to my above question 'What happened to the people who lived there before Israel owned it']
the last half of your post is pretty good,.
It's not whether Israel has the right to exist or not, or the right to defend herself or not, but a question of what the killing in Gaza will accomplish
do you think that what is being done will resolve anything, and we won't be hearing this story again in the future?
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schumo200310 months, 1 week ago
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"That is why Gaza exists: because the Palestinians who lived in Ashkelon and the fields around it – Askalaan in Arabic – were dispossessed from their lands in 1948 when Israel was created and ended up on the beaches of Gaza."
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Notice the use of passive voice here: "were dispossessed". Do you know who dispossessed them? Arab leaders who wanted to have a clear attack path straight to the heart of Israel-proper. This is a shameful portrayal of the conflict. -
mackiemesserComment removed: Retracted by user5 Replies
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tcg8250110 months, 1 week ago
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Look back a little further and you'll discover that Isreal was delcared a nation in the 1948 by the United Nations. Look back even further and you'll see that Isreal was given their land by God. Furthermore, if Canada or Mexico was continually sending rockets to the US, would be be asking for cease fire or would we obliterate them? Let Isreal finish this once and for all.
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rightfromwrong10 months, 1 week ago
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watch this video Israel if you wish to see what has become of Palestine .... thank you Israel of confiscation of Palestinian land
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21...
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Natureboy10 months, 1 week ago
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"Isreal belongs to God. God chose for the Jews to live there. All who come against God's will, bring suffering to themselves and to their children."
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This is moronic on so many levels.
Was it God who cast the Jews out of Israel? Or somebody else? Was it God who put Palestinian Christians and Muslims in Israel, or was it someobody else?
Leave God out of it and you will sound less infantile. -
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Rayman10 months, 1 week ago
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How disgusting and backward that 'GOD chose for the jews to live there'? Didn't GOD order the JEWS to leave Palestine after THEY(the jews) betrayed God? The state of israel is nothing but an outright made up country from the stolen land that once owned by the Palestinian people. Gaza is a very sad human tragedy inflicted by the zionist regime. The jewish military machine is conducting an ethnic cleansing of Palestinians in Gaza.israel will continue its atrocities against Palestinians while the world is watching the images of civilian casulties. Peace with come one day when israel is held accountable for crimes against humanity!
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djn3nunez310 months, 1 week ago
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Isreal belongs to God. God chose for the Jews to live there.
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Isn't that the place where this so called God told the original Israelites to conquer? Did they not slaughter men, women and children to get it? If God's will is so strong why didn't he just will those original inhabitants away from his chosen peoples lands?
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rlutzer110 months, 1 week ago
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What about the nation of Israel who can lay claim to the same land as the seat of King David....3000 years ago.....the Jews were disbursed all around the globe as the 12 tribes of Israel, to wander without a home until after the Holocaust in Europe created a nation for the displaced Jews to go to.....if the Palestinians wanted to have peace instead of war....we would not be where we are today. Tell me ONE country which would not fight back if they were bombed every single day for 6 months
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