Propaganda war: trusting what we see? »
Posted By tehranchik 10 months, 3 weeks ago in Political NewsThe BBC's Paul Reynolds look at the efforts Israel has made in the propaganda war over Gaza and at how in one instance, it has backfired.
Israel has bolstered its approach by banning foreign correspondents from Gaza, despite a ruling from the Israeli Supreme Court.
The Arab television news channel Al Jazeera is operating there and its reports have been graphic and have affected opinion across the Arab world. The BBC also has its local bureau hard at work.
But the absence of reporters from major organisations has meant, for example, that Mr Samur's story has not been as widely told as it probably would have been, or his account subject to an on-the-spot examination.
Meanwhile Israel has received good coverage of the threats and damage to its own towns and communities.
Whether Israel retains any propaganda initiative is not all certain. Pictures of dead and wounded children have undermined its claim to pinpoint accuracy and the longer this goes on, the greater the potential for world public opinion to swing against it, with diplomatic pressure building for a cessation.
Its presentational problems would be hugely increased if it engaged in a ground operation, which would bring with it more pictures of death and destruction.
Read Full Story at news.bbc.co.uk »
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tehranchik
Well, I'm from and live in the Pacific Northwest. I did live in the middle east during the late 70's and early 80 ...
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Dionys10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Thanks for posting this. I read it early this morning and was happy to see a fairly balanced assessment of the concerns surrounding the accuracy of news reports and the problems surrounding Israel's illegal banning of news reporters from Gaza.
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It's interesting to note that the reporter was attacked for falling victim to Palestinian propaganda despite the fact that all he did was voice concern for news accuracy when reporters were being denied access to confirm the accuracy of stories they are being spoon fed by the IDF.-
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hyperbola10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Many of the videos on the internet are of dubious value in proving anything.
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Footage of 9/11 Celebrations An Israeli Fake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuvscDkrs3U
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Spadecaller10 months, 3 weeks ago
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War is a vicious game filled with propaganda and heinous acts against humanity regardless of who is involved in conducting it.
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Just as Israel will attempt to portray its actions in the best possible light, so will Hamas.
What puzzles me, though, is how can anyone point the finger at the Israelis after Hamas turns hospitals and Mosques into military targets knowing that innocent civilians will die. This is the epitome of the worst kind of propaganda; using the lives of women and children to garner public opinion.
I can understand how easy it is to be fooled by this, but to me, this is the worst kind of propaganda there is.-
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canadianrancher5710 months, 3 weeks ago
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Spadecaller- I think that you answered your own question with your first statement.
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War is a vicious game filled with propaganda and heinous acts against humanity regardless of who is involved in conducting it.
One thing that I learned when I used to fight alot was that there are no rules, and on must do what one has to so that victory is yours. This is why i cannot really condem Israel in this war, I know that it takes two to fight, but what bothers me is how war has changed so that so many innocent people die. All that I have seen in regards to this present conflict is alot of finger pointing by everyone not only on this site but in the media and that will never solve anything. -
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Dionys10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"What puzzles me, though, is how can anyone point the finger at the Israelis after Hamas turns hospitals and Mosques into military targets knowing that innocent civilians will die."
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Firstly, Israel decides the targets of their attacks. So Hamas doesn't turn hospitals or Mosques into targets. They don't even operate from within them. That's more of the propaganda you pretend to think is vicious (but only when it comes from a particuar side).
Secondly -- What you're proposing is that countries should have changable moral and ethical boundries and modify them to be as evil, heartless and morally bankrupt as the people they're fighting.
It seems to me that if you're willing to change your ethical behaviour and sense of morality on a whim to be as bankrupt as the group you're fighting, then you've lost your 'war' the moment you take that action. Because you are no longer "Us" because you have become "them." -
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gamahuche10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Do we actually know that , SC?
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I've heard repeated many times that the in Gaza everything is being placed alongside everything else BUT if this is also the most densely crowded place on the planet how would it be possible to keep locations distant from each other?
I'm asking the question - not trying to prove a point of view.
Unfortunately we are being fed very large doses of outright propaganda here daily by israeligirl, who is obviously a paid agent. -
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hyperbola10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Well Spade, here you are chanting hate slogans to incite ethnic cleansing / genocide again.
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We must adjust our distorted image of Hamas
Gaza is a secular society where people listen to pop music, watch TV and many women walk the streets unveiled
Last week I was in Gaza. While I was there I met a group of 20 or so police officers who were undergoing a course in conflict management. They were eager to know whether foreigners felt safer since Hamas had taken over the Government? Indeed we did, we told them. Without doubt the past 18 months had seen a comparative calm on the streets of Gaza; no gunmen on the streets, no more kidnappings. They smiled with great pride and waved us goodbye. ... Less than a week later all of these men were dead, killed by an Israeli rocket at a graduation ceremony. Were they “dangerous Hamas militant gunmen”? No, they were unarmed police officers, public servants killed not in a “militant training camp” but in the same police station in the middle of Gaza City that had been used by the British, the Israelis and Fatah during their periods of rule there....
Who or what is Hamas, the movement that Ehud Barak, the Israeli Defence Minister, would like to wipe out as though it were a virus? Why did it win the Palestinian elections and why does it allow rockets to be fired into Israel? The story of Hamas over the past three years reveals how the Israeli, US and UK governments' misunderstanding of this Islamist movement has led us to the brutal and desperate situation that we are in now....
Palestinians did not vote for Hamas because it was dedicated to the destruction of the state of Israel or because it had been responsible for waves of suicide bombings that had killed Israeli citizens. They voted for Hamas because they thought that Fatah, the party of the rejected Government, had failed them. Despite renouncing violence and recognising the state of Israel Fatah had not achieved a Palestinian state. It is crucial to know this to understand the supposed rejectionist position of Hamas. It won't recognise Israel or renounce the right to resist until it is sure of the world's commitment to a just solution to the Palestinian issue.
The political leadership of Hamas is probably the most highly qualified in the world. Boasting more than 500 PhDs in its ranks, the majority are middle-class professionals - doctors, dentists, scientists and engineers. Most of its leadership have been educated in our universities and harbour no ideological hatred towards the West. It is a grievance-based movement, dedicated to addressing the injustice done to its people. It has consistently offered a ten-year ceasefire to give breathing space to resolve a conflict that has continued for more than 60 years.
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Radiofreeeuropa10 months, 3 weeks ago
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alakazam10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I am not a big fan of discussing the issue in any case.
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The whole thing reminds me of children squabbling at recess over who gets to use the swings.
It's almost to the point where I would wish adult intervention but that would just make it worse in this case.
Pouring fuel on a fire is not an effective method of putting it out.
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Cater1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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hyperbola10 months, 3 weeks ago
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It is sad to see Israeli jews committing suicide for the benefit of a vile ideology like zionism. Here is an israeli jew that has caught on to what is really going on.
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The Self-Defense of Suicide - Israel is a Weak and Dying State
Echoing Lebanon 2006, the people of Gaza are being butchered by murderous pilots of a murderous state. Ground forces will soon butcher many more. This widely-expected repetition of Israel’s large scale violence is carried out after a long process that was triggered when Israel unilaterally cleared its settlements and ground presence from Gaza only to create what has been described as a remote-controlled human zoo. Israel has maintained total control over Gaza’s borders, its air and sea space, its economy, its electricity, food and medical supplies. The people of Gaza have been starved, humiliated and constantly intimidated.
Beyond achieving very short term relief from rocket attacks the scale of Israel’s violence is question-begging and thought provoking. Israel’s actions, justified by the “no choice” (ein brera) and “self-defence” rhetoric, can temporarily put the lid on the volcano of hatred around Israel and within it but, after the initial shock and awe, it is surely destined to bring much more violence.
Given the sure failure of attempts to bring about stability through violence, intimidation, starvation and humiliation, what, on earth, is the desire that moves the Israeli state? What, do Israelis imagine, will be achieved by this massacre? There must be something which is suppressed here.
Gaza itself gives us a clue. Many of the Palestinians who live in Gaza are descendants of 750000 refugees who were expelled in 1948 from what is now the Jewish state. Ashkelon is built on the ruins of the Palestinian village of al-Majdal whose people were expelled in 1948, many to Gaza. Only by such massive ethnic cleansing could a state with a Jewish majority and character be established. Any just realisation of the refugees’ internationally recognised right of return would effectively mean the end of the Zionist project. Those who choose to return would not merely threaten the Jewish majority. Upon return, they would surely press demands for equal citizenship. In so doing, they would challenge the foundational discriminatory premise of the Jewish state, which assigns a different stake in the state to all those who pass a test of Jewishness, whether they live in the country or elsewhere.
what is in fact being “preserved” is the unwillingness, or rather the inability, of Israelis to question their own state’s apartheid foundation. The concealing mantra about Hamas’s rocket firing versus Israel’s legitimate self-defence cynically conscripts both the Palestinians of Gaza and the Israelis of Sderot. Shielding the Jewish state’s unwillingness to deal with colonial and racist Zionism is more important than all of them.-
hyperbolaComment removed: Spam
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hyperbolaComment removed: Spam
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rimbaud10 months, 3 weeks ago
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The Palestinians need to get over it! They are in the position they are in because they lost every one of their wars against Israel (just as the Native Americans lost, here in the USA). Allah does not need the help of Hamas: the religious ideology preventing Hamas from accepting the existence of Israel should not prevent Gaza from getting back to a long-term cease-fire that allows Gaza to begin building some self-determination and independence from Israel. With forward-looking economic advancement, Gaza may find trade and travel across its borders, instead of martyrdom, and greater influence over Israel. There is no reason the innovations the world needs cannot come from the Palestinians.
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Shankari25Comment removed: Retracted by user
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ur-land-is-my-land10 months, 3 weeks ago
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propaganda is nothing new and it does magic if gone unchallenged. I will give two examples to show how evil and decieving propaganda become.
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1400 years ago the first Imam of Shia muslims, (the fourth Khalif)was assasinated in the mosque while leading the prayers. He was assasinated by a muslim fanatic such as these AlQaeda savages. when the news was spread in muslim lands that Imam Ali was assasinated in the mosque while praying, many people where shocked , not of hearing the assasination but they had alwyas been told that Imam Ali never prayed, so what was he doing in the Mosque.
Lets come little closer to our times. It is fair to assume we all know how Hitler treated jews in the WWII, but lets look at one of his statements about jews , in his Mein Kampf:
"For the Jew was still characterized for me by nothing but his religion, and therefore, on grounds of human tolerance, I maintained my rejection of religious attacks in this case as in others. Consequently, the tone, particularly that of the Viennese antiSemitic press, seemed to me unworthy of the cultural tradition of a great nation. I was oppressed by the memory of certain occurrences in the Middle Ages, which I should not have liked to see repeated."
Methods of propaganda has been developed well, how do you effectively counter it?
can any one counter a false propaganda without owning the means to spread it?
what percentage of electronic and print media are owned by who?
However in this age of information and disinformation it should not be as difficult as it used to be to counters the liers deceivers and propaganda masters.
Those with limited means of propaganda machinery can learn a lesson from roulette players.
Next time you go to a casino watch the players. SOme will spread their moeny on so many numbers almost covering every number , and even when they win time after time their win is so small that one loss will wipe it out. This is a path to slow death.
Other players , orientals especially, watch it a bit,notice a streak maybe , pick a few numbers and load it on those numbers and when they win, they win big.
The same method can be applied in counter propaganda. Those with limited access to electronic and print media will never be able to compete with the ones who own most of it, so they need to be selective in their counterattack. It would not be possible or worth it to try to counter every propaganda but one needs to locate the vital organs of the noise machine and concentrate on those.
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