Story Comments
Posted by: tehranchik 12 months ago
This page is a permanent archive of the comment below and its replies.
To view this comment in the context of the full discussion for the story, use this link.
-
76%
tehranchik12 months ago
-
83%
rimbaud12 months ago
-
76%
Dionys12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
"When did Hamas break the cease-fire? (...and why?)"
Reply
Here's your answer:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUKTRE4BS1...
June 19 - A truce begins between Hamas and Israel. It calls for Hamas to stop cross-border rocket fire and for Israel to gradually ease its embargo on Gaza. Aug 2 - Factional fighting kills three Hamas policemen and six pro-Fatah gunmen in the Gaza Strip in the worst fighting since June 2007.
November 5 - Hamas fires dozens of rockets at Israel after Israeli forces kill six Palestinian militants in an eruption of violence that has disrupted the four-month-old truce.
December 14 - Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal is quoted as saying the group will not renew the six-month-old truce with Israel.
It never broke the truce. It simply did not renew the truce because Israeli forces crossed into Gaza (as they always do) to assassinate people it wanted to kill.-
43%
Georgia5012 months ago
-
71%
Dionys12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
They broke the truce. They killed people. It's entirely possible the Palestinians were terrorists. What it comes down to, however, is that Israel launched an attack across the border and then Hamas decided if Israel's going to ignore the truce and launch attacks there was no reason for them to consider renewing the truce.
Reply
But if you really want, you can keep pretending that it was Hamas that broke the truce.-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive12 Replies
-
-
-
-
65%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
More appropriate might be to ask when Israel broke the cease-fire agreement. The answer is Israel did not ever comply with the cease-fire agreement. Here is an israeli jewish description.
Reply
How Israel is Multiplying Hamas by a Thousand
Molten Lead in Gaza
http://www.counterpunch.com/avnery01022009.html
... “ISRAEL MUST defend itself against the rockets that are terrorizing our Southern towns,” the Israeli spokesmen explained. “Palestinians must respond to the killing of their fighters inside the Gaza Strip,” the Hamas spokesmen declared.
As a matter of fact, the cease-fire did not collapse, because there was no real cease-fire to start with. The main requirement for any cease-fire in the Gaza Strip must be the opening of the border crossings. There can be no life in Gaza without a steady flow of supplies. But the crossings were not opened, except for a few hours now and again. The blockade on land, on sea and in the air against a million and a half human beings is an act of war, as much as any dropping of bombs or launching of rockets. It paralyzes life in the Gaza Strip: eliminating most sources of employment, pushing hundreds of thousands to the brink of starvation, stopping most hospitals from functioning, disrupting the supply of electricity and water.
Those who decided to close the crossings – under whatever pretext – knew that there is no real cease-fire under these conditions.
That is the main thing. Then there came the small provocations which were designed to get Hamas to react. After several months, in which hardly any Qassam rockets were launched, an army unit was sent into the Strip “in order to destroy a tunnel that came close to the border fence”. From a purely military point of view, it would have made more sense to lay an ambush on our side of the fence. But the aim was to find a pretext for the termination of the cease-fire, in a way that made it plausible to put the blame on the Palestinians. And indeed, after several such small actions, in which Hamas fighters were killed, Hamas retaliated with a massive launch of rockets, and – lo and behold – the cease-fire was at an end. Everybody blamed Hamas.
* * *
WHAT WAS THE AIM? Tzipi Livni announced it openly: to liquidate Hamas rule in Gaza. The Qassams served only as a pretext.
Liquidate Hamas rule? That sounds like a chapter out of “The March of Folly”. After all, it is no secret that it was the Israeli government which set up Hamas to start with....
For years, the occupation authorities favored the Islamic movement in the occupied territories. All other political activities were rigorously suppressed, but their activities in the mosques were permitted. The calculation was simple and naive: at the time, the PLO was considered the main enemy, Yasser Arafat was the current Satan. The Islamic movement was preaching against the PLO and Arafat, and was therefore viewed as an ally.-
71%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
...THE MAIN LINE was: not to repeat the mistakes of Lebanon War II. This was endlessly repeated on all the news programs and talk shows.
Reply
This does not change the fact: the Gaza War is an almost exact replica of the second Lebanon war.
The strategic concept is the same: to terrorize the civilian population by unremitting attacks from the air, sowing death and destruction. This poses no danger to the pilots, since the Palestinians have no anti-aircraft weapons at all. The calculation: if the entire life-supporting infrastructure in the Strip is utterly destroyed and total anarchy ensues, the population will rise up and overthrow the Hamas regime. Mahmoud Abbas will then ride back into Gaza on the back of Israeli tanks.
In Lebanon, this calculation did not work out. The bombed population, including the Christians, rallied behind Hizbullah, and Hassan Nasrallah became the hero of the Arab world. Something similar will probably happen this time, too. Generals are experts on using weapons and moving troops, not on mass psychology....
...Millions are seeing these terrible images, picture after picture, day after day. These images are imprinted on their minds forever: horrible Israel, abominable Israel, inhuman Israel. A whole generation of haters. That is a terrible price, which we will be compelled to pay long after the other results of the war itself have been forgotten in Israel....
...This war is a writing on the wall: Israel is missing the historic chance of making peace with secular Arab nationalism. Tomorrow, It may be faced with a uniformly fundamentalist Arab world, Hamas multiplied by a thousand.
MY TAXI DRIVER in Tel-Aviv the other day was thinking aloud: Why not call up the sons of the ministers and members of the Knesset, form them into a combat unit and send them off to head the coming ground attack on Gaza?-
43%
CaptainLucid12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Holy crap hyperbola you managed to say all that while ignoring the only relevant fact which is that hamas is bombing Israeli citizens randomly yet again. There is also the irrelevant crap like Israel may be faced with a uniformly terrorist/fundamentalist world. Guess what you wannabe pundit, they already have and they have whipped the muslims everytime and other than Egypt they still face them. Hyperbola, I am not stupid like you because I know reality. Israel has tried to make peace several times and the palestinians agree only long enough to reload. As far as your taxi driver (personally I get my advice from people smarter than taxi drivers unless it is to a *****house or a strip club or some other vice) I would rather suggest get all the palestinian leaders together and tell them to form a police unit and arrest all the terrorists before Israel has to bomb the rocket launchers.
Reply-
-
100%
jimdoze12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
"you might know that the author of this article is a former member of the Israeli Knesset (parliament)"
Reply
That does not render the opinions expressed in your "counter punch" article as having any basis resting on the fundamental principal of the survival of Israel... which, as is apparent, is precisely your point.
Lyndon LaRouche remains very proud of you, hyperbole!-
67%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
What jimd! Now you claim that former members of the Israeli Knesset cannot speak about (or write articles about) what is going on in Isreal / Palestine because you happen not to like their opinions?
Reply
Thanks jimd. You show clearly the totalitarian nature and ethics associated with support of zionism.
You should read what a former Speaker of the Israeli Knesset (and Head of the Jewish Agency) has to say about the increasing totalitarianism of the zionists.
The Holocaust is Over: We Must Rise from its Ashes
http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/11/03/the-holo...
Time to give up the "if its my tribe, it can't be wrong" racism jimd - especially when increasing numbers of israelis (and jews worldwide) are doing so.
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
88%
injest12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
When did Hamas break the cease-fire? (...and why?)
Reply
On November 5, 2008 the ceasefire began to break down after Hamas militants digging infiltration tunnels into Israel were discovered by Israeli Defense Forces and fired upon. Hamas responded with a barrage of rockets which led to Defense Minister Ehud Barak giving approval for Operation Cast Lead, a series of airstrikes across Gaza, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert after discussion with Barak decided to put the operation on hold.[79] On 23 December 2008, Hamas issued a statement declaring the six months ceasefire was over
-
-
67%
Thinker2212 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
You're right, Tehranchik.
Reply
It's not the obliteration of Hamas that is the road to peace, it's obliteration of Islamist terorrists no matter how they call themselves.
Only when the Palestinian Arabs will be ABLE AND WILLING to negotiate a peace agreement will peace become possible.-
68%
Dionys12 months ago
-
27%
Thinker2212 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
> Or maybe when Israeli stops crossing borders to kill whomever it wants?
Reply
It is normal and acceptable to cross borders and kill enemy fighters during a war, Dyonis, and it will continue for as long as the Palestinians are willing the war to continue.
If and when Palestinian Arabs decide to end the wat and if they' will be ABLE AND WILLING to negotiate a peace agreement will peace become possible.
If you believe that Israel will sit idly watching its citizens killed you're badly mistaken.-
90%
Dionys12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
"It is normal and acceptable to cross borders and kill enemy fighters during a war, Dyonis, and it will continue for as long as the Palestinians are willing the war to continue."
Reply
Oh sorry. I thought they did it during the truce and therefore broke the agreements of the truce.
Oh wait. THEY DID!-
100%
Thinker2212 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
> I thought they did it during the truce and therefore broke the agreements of the truce. Oh wait. THEY DID!
Reply
So did the Palestinian militants who launched rockets into Israel during the truce.
When BOTH sides violate the truce it's not worth the paper it is written on.-
100%
Thinker2212 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
You may use this link in case you'll be willing to say that Hamas kept their part of the truce, Tehranchik.
Reply
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27714568/
-
-
50%
Endoscopy12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
More al taqiyya Dionys? Sounds like the Muslim lies to me. When has Hamas ever renounced their charter. In that their avowed aim is to obliterate Israel and replace it with Sharia law and nothing else is acceptable. Their claim that if Islam ever conquers a place is is supposed to remain Islamic forever. Nothing else is acceptable to them. This is the view of the other Islamic terrorist organizations. Getting rid of the Jews and instituting Sharia law is their only acceptable solution.
Reply
How do you get peace under those conditions when young Muslims are willing to die for Allah as suicide bombers to achieve that purpose?
-
-
-
-
25%
CaptainLucid12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Extra judical killings are justice when it is someone who attacks your country while using another country as a legal shield. There are many levels of legal relationships from active cooperation to extradition to local house arrest to outright refusal and military protection. The civilized world has Interpol where if some one robs a bank or murders someone the rest of the civilized world will cooperate with the investigation including active steps like checking IDs , serving warrants (which should be at least glanced at and rubber stamped despite what W wants. At the other extreme you have afghanistan, somalia, and palestine which are no longer functional countries, they are only outlaw hideouts with a loudmouth who keeps yelling "national soveriegnty". We could simplify things by just declaring war but we know it is not the peasants who hate us. They only attack us because if they don't the big terrorists will go really nasty on their village or tribe. The easiest solution is a bullet or exploding cell phone for the leaders. If that is not attainable we may have to get a bit cruder like a guided missile or bomb where we may have to take out the terrorists 4 wives and a basketball team worth of bastard future terrorists to get the top man.
Reply
As far as terrorism that would be hoping your rocket nails some first grader who is just learning how to multiply and divide because you are a sic FUK.
-
-
17%
injest12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
“Or maybe when Israeli stops crossing borders to kill whomever it wants?”
Reply
Who’s border did Israel cross?
The Gaza strip IS part of Israel.
There’s an old saying that is still true today
"You can have your own opinion but ya can’t have your own facts."-
-
50%
Thinker2212 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
> ...not according to the un. remember them? statehood and all that?
Reply
Oh yes, yes, of course, the UN, statehood and all that...
Don't you remember that the Palestinians and other Arabs REJECTED the UN offer of "statehood and all that" and continue rejecting it as we speak?-
Neutral
dissent12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
i was talking about israel, 1947, but i knew of all people you would take it that way.....
Reply
"The specific points and impediments to the establishment of a Palestinian state are listed below. They are a part of a greater mindset difference. Israel declares that its security demands that a Palestinian entity would not have all attributes of a state, at least initially, so that in case things go wrong, Israel would not have to face a dangerous and nearby enemy. Israel may be therefore said to agree (as of now) not to a complete and independent Palestinian state, but rather to a self-administering entity, with partial but not full sovereignty over its borders and its citizens.
The central Palestinian position is that they have already compromised greatly by accepting a state covering only the areas of the West Bank and Gaza. These areas are significantly less territory than allocated to the Arab state in UN Resolution 181. They feel that it is unacceptable for an agreement to impose additional restrictions (such as level of militarization) which, they declare, makes a viable state impossible. In particular, they are angered by significant increases in the population of Israeli settlements and communities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip during the interim period of the Oslo accords. Palestinians claim that they have already waited long enough, and that Israel's interests do not justify depriving their state of those rights that they consider important. The Palestinians have been unwilling to accept a territorially disjointed state. It is feared that it would face difficulties similar to Bantustans."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_a_Pales...-
Neutral
Thinker2211 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
> i was talking about israel, 1947...
Reply
So did I. In 1947 the UN offered to divide Palestine creating TWO states, one for the jews and another for the Arabs. The Jews accepted the offer and created a state. The Arabs rejected it and they do not have a state even today.
> The central Palestinian position is that they have already compromised greatly by accepting a state covering only the areas of the West Bank and Gaza.
By the very same token Israel compromised even more by agreeing to give up the areas of the West Bank and Gaza to the Palestinians.
> These areas are significantly less territory than allocated to the Arab state in UN Resolution 181.
This is correct... but the Arabs REJECTED the UN Resoluition 181. If the Palestinians are willing to go back to 1947 and change their collective mind THERE they may try to do that. If, however, they're willing to make peace in 2009 they'll have to realize that the conditions have changed since 1947 and that in 2015 they'll, probably, be sorry that they did not accept the offers of 2009.
> They feel that it is unacceptable for an agreement to impose additional restrictions (such as level of militarization) which, they declare, makes a viable state impossible.
If the Palestinians are wiling to live in peace then they do not need ANY militarization. If, however, they're incapable of living in peace then the restriction on their militarization will actually make their state MORE viable than not.
> In particular, they are angered by significant increases in the population of Israeli settlements and communities in the West Bank and Gaza Strip ...
I can guarantee that not a single Israeli settlement will remain within the borders of the (still non-existent) Palestinian Arab state. This being said, however, one has to remember that the lands of the West Bank and Gaza do not belong to ANY state yet and that claiming that people of one ethnicity have the right to live there while people of a different ethnicity do not have such right is nothing but racism.
> Palestinians claim that they have already waited long enough...
It were the Palestinians and other Arabs who rejected and continue to reject a peaceful negotiated solution to the conflict. They can only blame themselves for the "waiting". If and when they'll decide to stop vioence and negotiate a peace agreement Israel will not refuse.
> The Palestinians have been unwilling to accept a territorially disjointed state.
As it is not topologically possible to create a NON-disjointed state from the West Bank and Gaza an alternative practical solution would be creating TWO non-disjointed Palestinian states... especially considering the current sate of affairs betweeen the TWO Palestinian governments in the West Bank and Gaza.
-
-
-
-
88%
Candida12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
injest: "The Gaza strip IS part of Israel."
Reply
So it's part of Israel when it's convenient, and it's not part of Israel when that's convenient. It's not part of it when it's a question of starving them, but it's part of it when it's a question of killing them. If it's part of Israel but nobody can leave or enter, what is it if not a ghetto?-
capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user
-
-
-
-
-
38%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Oh how determined thinker is to kill israeli jews for a vile totalitarian ideology.
Reply
The Self-Defense of Suicide - Israel is a Weak and Dying State
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/04/the-self...
Echoing Lebanon 2006, the people of Gaza are being butchered by murderous pilots of a murderous state. Ground forces will soon butcher many more. This widely-expected repetition of Israel’s large scale violence is carried out after a long process that was triggered when Israel unilaterally cleared its settlements and ground presence from Gaza only to create what has been described as a remote-controlled human zoo. Israel has maintained total control over Gaza’s borders, its air and sea space, its economy, its electricity, food and medical supplies. The people of Gaza have been starved, humiliated and constantly intimidated.
Beyond achieving very short term relief from rocket attacks the scale of Israel’s violence is question-begging and thought provoking. Israel’s actions, justified by the “no choice” (ein brera) and “self-defence” rhetoric, can temporarily put the lid on the volcano of hatred around Israel and within it but, after the initial shock and awe, it is surely destined to bring much more violence.
Given the sure failure of attempts to bring about stability through violence, intimidation, starvation and humiliation, what, on earth, is the desire that moves the Israeli state? What, do Israelis imagine, will be achieved by this massacre? There must be something which is suppressed here.
Gaza itself gives us a clue. Many of the Palestinians who live in Gaza are descendants of 750000 refugees who were expelled in 1948 from what is now the Jewish state. Ashkelon is built on the ruins of the Palestinian village of al-Majdal whose people were expelled in 1948, many to Gaza. Only by such massive ethnic cleansing could a state with a Jewish majority and character be established. Any just realisation of the refugees’ internationally recognised right of return would effectively mean the end of the Zionist project. Those who choose to return would not merely threaten the Jewish majority. Upon return, they would surely press demands for equal citizenship. In so doing, they would challenge the foundational discriminatory premise of the Jewish state, which assigns a different stake in the state to all those who pass a test of Jewishness, whether they live in the country or elsewhere.
what is in fact being “preserved” is the unwillingness, or rather the inability, of Israelis to question their own state’s apartheid foundation. The concealing mantra about Hamas’s rocket firing versus Israel’s legitimate self-defence cynically conscripts both the Palestinians of Gaza and the Israelis of Sderot. Shielding the Jewish state’s unwillingness to deal with colonial and racist Zionism is more important than all of them.-
0%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Israel needs a continuing cycle of violence. As long as this cycle is provoked through daily oppression, Israelis can sustain that haven in which they can unite behind their inability to examine their apartheid mentality.
Reply
Alas, the pathology of generating violence against oneself, violence that suspends reflection on the core apartheid, succeeds only at the price of generating enormous hatred. The Israeli pathology will bring about, stealthily and fatefully, that which the Israelis fear most.There is indeed “no choice” for the nationalistic project of the eternal victims but to commit suicide with those whom they oppress.
The self-defence of suicide points out the uniqueness of the Israeli apartheid. Both the no-choice and the self-defence rhetoric contain a chilling chronicle of suicide foretold. Despite its military might, Israel is a weak and dying state that desires to destroy itself. The most powerful nations in the world assist this suicidal process and this fact calls for urgent contemplation.-
50%
CaptainLucid12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
**** hyperbola I am an adventurer and am almost always willing to try something once just for personal knowledge (once I consult several medical journals and research studies until I am sure it is safe) to understand what reactions on receptor cells, and various levels of chemicals like seratonin, dopamine, or inhibhitors like booze does. The mind is worthy of exploration but whatever crap you took tell me because I never want to babble like that.
Reply -
-
-
-
hyperbolaComment removed: Spam
-
-
77%
tehranchik12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
I'd like to refer rimbaud to lie #2.
Reply
http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/articles/2009/... -
83%
AnteUp12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Thanks for posting this one, tehranchik.
Reply
Who th heck is this Adi Dvir..............the Ann Coulter of Ynet news?
What disgusting sentiments. Even rightwing extremists in Israel
need a cheerleader - huh?
And thanks for mentioning that Hamas WAS elected. The news likes
to pretend that they ever participated in a Democratic process. I have
heard the news mention the bloody ousting of Fatah in Gaza that took
place LONG after the US and Israel convinced Abbas NOT to form a
Unity government with Hamas after the election.-
-
50%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Well drop, here is an israeli jew that disagrees with you. He says the only thing still holding up Fatah in the West Bank is the IDF and that Hamas will soon take over there.
Reply
Israel - Living on Borrowed Time in a Stolen Land
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/05/israel-l...
Communicating with Israelis may leave one bewildered. Even now when the Israeli Air Force is practicing murder in broad daylight of hundreds of civilians, elderly persons, women and children, the Israeli people manage to convince themselves that they are the real victims in this violent saga.
Those who are familiar intimately with Israeli people realise that they are completely uninformed about the roots of the conflict that dominates their lives. Rather often Israelis manage to come up with some bizarre arguments that may make a lot of sense within the Israeli discourse, yet make no sense whatsoever outside of the Jewish street. Such an argument goes as follows: ‘those Palestinians, why do they insist upon living on our land (Israel), why can’t they just settle in Egypt, Syria, Lebanon or any other Arab country?’ Another Hebraic pearl of wisdom sounds like this: ‘what is wrong with these Palestinians? We gave them water, electricity, education and all they do is try to throw us to the sea’.
Astonishingly enough, the Israelis even within the so-called ‘left’ and even the educated ‘left’ fail to understand who the Palestinians are, where they come from and what they stand for. They fail to grasp that for the Palestinians, Palestine is home. Miraculously, the Israelis manage to fail to grasp that Israel had been erected at the expense of the Palestinian people, on Palestinian land, on Palestinian villages, towns, fields and orchards. The Israelis do not realise that Palestinians in Gaza and in refugee camps in the region are actually dispossessed people from Ber Shive, Yafo, Tel Kabir, Shekh Munis, Lod, Haifa, Jerusalem and many more towns and villages. If you wonder how come the Israelis don’t know their history, the answer is pretty simple, they have never been told. ....-
0%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
But this is far from the end of the story. In fact it is just the beginning. Every Middle East expert knows that Hamas can seize control of the West Bank within hours. In fact, PA and Fatah control in the West Bank is maintained by the IDF. Once Hamas takes the West Bank, the biggest Israeli population centre will be left to the mercy of Hamas. For those who fail to see, this would be the end of Jewish Israel. It may happen later today, it may happen in three months or in five years, it isn’t matter of ‘if’ but rather matter of ‘when’. By that time, the whole of Israel will be within firing range of Hamas and Hezbollah, Israeli society will collapse, its economy will be ruined. The price of a detached villa in Northern Tel Aviv would equal a shed in Kiryat Shmone or Sderot. By the time a single rocket hits Tel Aviv, the Zionist dream will be over.
Reply
The IDF generals know it, the Israeli leaders know it. This is why they stepped up the war against the Palestinian into extermination. The Israelis do not plan upon invading Gaza. They have lost nothing there. All they want is to finish the Nakba. They drop bombs on Palestinians in order to wipe them out. They want the Palestinians out of the region. It is obviously not going to work, Palestinians will stay. Not only they will they stay, their day of return to their land is coming closer as Israel has been exploiting its deadliest tactics.
This is exactly where Israeli escapism comes into play. Israel has passed the ‘point of no return’. Its doomed fate is deeply engraved in each bomb it drops on Palestinian civilians. There is nothing Israel can do to save itself. There is no exit strategy. It can’t negotiate its way out because neither the Israelis nor their leadership understand the elementary parameters involved in the conflict. Israel lacks the military power to conclude the battle. It may manage to kill Palestinian grassroots leaders, it has been doing it for years, yet Palestinian resistance and persistence is growing fierce rather than weakening. As an IDF intelligence general predicted already at the first Intifada. ‘In order to win, all Palestinians have to do is to survive’. They survive and they are indeed winning.....
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/05/israel-l... -
-
-
-
-
40%
injest12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
When was Hamas elected.........?
Reply
1 - 10 of about 2,540,000 for When was Hamas .........?. (0.22 seconds)
January and May 2005, in which it took control of Beit Lahia and Rafah in the Gaza Strip and Qalqilyah in the West Bank. The January 2006 legislative elections marked another victory for Hamas, which gained the majority of seats in the first fair and democratic elections held in Palestine,[35] defeating the ruling Fatah party. The "List of Change and Reform", as Hamas presented itself, obtained 42.9% of the vote and 74 of the 132 seats
Seriously, why is this even a question?
.2 sec 2.5 million hits,
you just now wondered “When was Hamas elected.........?” -
100%
Spadecaller12 months ago
-
85%
tehranchik12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Spade, this is a comment I left in dissent's submission a few hours ago.
Reply
One country, everybody equal citizens with equal rights. Muslim , Jew, Christian, Hindu what ever. No walls, no settlements. Equal representation in government. Everyone needs to have their say. No one is invisible. Had the group of people living here in the 30s and 40s been included in the plans....who knows where we'd be now. Jerusalem stays as it is now with all religions able to worship there. This is where I'll get into trouble but I think reparations to the previous dwellers is something that has to happen. I know this isn't very detailed and it's a very simple, general plan with lots of room for compromise, but If it were to happen I think the whole middle east could calm down and at least take one thorn out of the lion's paw.
oh ya---get the U.S. OUT! two thorns.-
-
-
-
-
100%
dissent12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
the right to existence is a two way street. here's the road map of the last 60 years.
Reply
http://www.sott.net/image/image/9591/israel-palest...
it's been strictly one way.
btw, your response to tehranchick came 23 minutes after my asking you for one. time stamps prove i can't time travel
-
-
-
-
-
0%
Endoscopy12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
What you say sounds nice but you hava a major problem.
Reply
Explain how that is going to happen when one side ONLY has the objective of DESTROYING the other side. Read the Hamas charter and get your head out of the sand. The only acceptable result for them is the destruction of Israel and instituting Sharia law there.
That is only acceptable if you are a Muslim. Are you Muslim? Living in dhimmi status under Islam is taking your chances that the Muslims around you will continue to treat you nice and not get a wild hair and come into the ghetto killing and looting. That has been the history of people of the book under Islam. Times of peace followed by times of almost being wiped out. -
Neutral
Thinker2211 months, 4 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
> One country, everybody equal citizens with equal rights. Muslim , Jew, Christian, Hindu what ever. No walls, no settlements. Equal representation in government. Everyone needs to have their say. No one is invisible.
Reply
Somehow I've missed yor reply to muy suggestion for you to try selling this GREAT IDEA to the Arabs first. If and when "One country, everybody equal citizens with equal rights. Muslim , Jew, Christian, Hindu what ever. No walls, no settlements. Equal representation in government. Everyone needs to have their say. No one is invisible." will be created in place of the current 21 Arab states and the Israelis will see how great it is they'll join it, too.
Good luck, Tehranchik!
-
-
100%
Spadecaller12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Tehranchik:
Reply
"I know this isn't very detailed and it's a very simple, general plan with lots of room for compromise, but If it were to happen I think the whole middle east could calm down and at least take one thorn out of the lion's paw."
Would your plan for peace include an acknowledgment from a Palestinian government that recognized Israel's right to exist?-
20%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Depnds of what form that takes Spade. The world did not recognize an "aryan master race" Germany or a "white" South Africa. Neither should it recognize a "jewish state" in Israel. The world does not need more racism, and especially official condoning of racism.
Reply
Here is an Israeli jew that puts the issues clearly.
Why Israel Has No "Right To Exist"
As A Jewish State
By Oren Ben-Dor
http://www.countercurrents.org/bendo211107.htm -
0%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
And Spade, one should remember that many Israelis feel the same: NO "jewish state".
Reply
Why Israeli Anti-Zionists do NOT “recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist as a Jewish state.”
In recent times, the demand has been raised, by representatives of the State of Israel, and by its supporters abroad, to recognize the State of Israel’s “right to exist as a Jewish state”. I am told that this demand is a debater's trick that was invented by Henry Kissinger several years ago.
Be that as it may, what, if anything, is wrong with this demand?
..... f the goal is a negotiated peace agreement, or treaty, there is no need for recognition of “the right of the State of Israel to exist as a Jewish state”. If the goal is to sabotage the possibility of a negotiated agreement, this demand has been placed front and center.
A couple of other examples, just to illustrate the preposterous nature of the demand:
Has anyone ever asked the Catholics of Ireland to recognize the right of Ulster, or Northern Ireland, to exist as a “Protestant state”?
Would we recognize the right of any state to exist as a “Hindu state”? As a “Muslim state”?
Just to pose the question is to expose its nature.
But, maybe we are not talking about “Jewish state” as a state affiliated to the Jewish religion. Maybe we are talking about a state that is defined by the dominant ethnicity. In that case, the position does not get any better. ...
...we have had our fill of states whose raison d'etre is to preserve ethnic superiority and domination. One does not have to refer to the late unlamented “Aryan state”. Within recent memory, we had white-supremacist Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa. Whatever limits there are to analogies from and to these white supremacist regimes, we have learned that states that define themselves with reference to the domination of one ethnic group cannot claim legitimacy...-
hyperbolaComment removed: Spam
-
-
0%
hyperbola12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Israel and its allies insist that the Palestinian victims of Zionism must “recognize Israel as a Jewish state with a Jewish majority.”
Reply
No one seems concerned about the fact that this ultimatum flies in the face of elementary democratic values regarding human equality and human rights.
This dispute is not about borders. In Ilan Pappe's recent book – “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” – he describes the events in a process of ”ethnic cleansing” conducted by the forces under David Ben-Gurion's leadership, from December 1947 through December 1948.
An older book, by Sabri Jiryis - “The Arabs in Israel” - describes a reality of racist segregation and racist discrimination.
Fundamentally, Zionism would prefer more land and less Palestinians. Zionism never wanted a Palestinian underclass. But, since the ethnic cleansing of 1947-48 was incomplete, there is much still to be done to achieve the goals of Zionism, and therefore much conflict and much oppression.
So, the State of Israel demands a priori recognition of the irreversibility of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the legitimacy of a racist regime. To summarize, the State of Israel is characterized by 3 essential features:
settler-colonialism
ethnic cleansing; and
racist discrimination.
Anti-Zionist Israelis fight to reverse, to overturn, those three essential features of the State of Israel.
Just as Zionism is predicated on taking Jewish people from our countries of origin, in which our families have lived for generations, and ingathering us to the Promised Land -- the State of Israel is predicated on keeping Palestinians out of their country of origin, in which their families have lived for generations. The essence of a “Jewish state” in Palestine has always been: Jews in; Palestinians out. This is a central, permanent feature of the “Jewish State”, one that cannot be changed by adding the adjective “democratic” to “Jewish State”.
Imagine what it would be like to add the adjective “democratic” to “Aryan state” or “Hindu state” or “Protestant state” or “Islamic republic”!
It just doesn't work that way.
Add to that the fact that the State of Israel is the main engine of anti-Semitism in the world today, as Lord Montagu predicted in 1917.
And that is why anti-Zionist Israelis do NOT “recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist as a Jewish State”.
http://www.connexions.org/CxLibrary/Docs/CX7284-Lo...
-
-
-
-
50%
Daylight12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
[DropkickaLib]
Reply
How many Islamic countries have had to expell the Palestinians because of their penchant for constant violence? Just ask Jordan, Tunisia, Lebanon, Kuwait...
Those countries are the puppets of the West who lick the American and the Israeli boots. Not a single Muslim in the world respects these lackeys.-
50%
Endoscopy12 months ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
ROTFLMAO
Reply
I guess you agree with the Hamas charter when it says that if Islam ever conquers a territory then it should remain Islamic forever. This is part of their justification for the ONLY ACCEPTABLE solution of obliterating Israel and instituting Sharia law there. Would Spain be next? Or is it the horrific Jews that are the real target? -
-
-
-
-
loading ...
Ciera-Marie
berkeley
Ratskii
cushi
LumFan
gamahuche
Goppy
Candida
blowback
dissent
AnteUp
happycat462
Sageparadox
engineer
normallysilent
DropkickaLib
avoth
Post Reply
You are not signed in to Propeller.com. Please sign in to post a reply.