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Posted by: dissent 10 months, 3 weeks ago
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dissent10 months, 3 weeks ago
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as i said on another thread, i think the intention here is to redraw the map of gaza. israel's plan is to cut the palestinians off from both egypt and the mediterranean and then carve the remainder of gaza into smaller pieces, as has been done with the west bank.
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the excessive use of force is probably seen as necessary, not to stop rockets as is the excuse, but to put israel in a stronger bargaining position when the time comes to start bargaining, ie. aim high then give a little and make it seem like a lot. it's a standard haggling technique.
after the horror of this past week and what is yet to come, suddenly the palestinians giving up the egyptian border and the access to the sea doesn't seem to bad if it means making this massacre come to an end. the rockets will, in all likelihood, continue, although far fewer as the access to the hardware will be severely restricted due to israel's increased control. but that's really neither here nor there-
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AnteUp10 months, 3 weeks ago
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dissent ~
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I have been wondering what the ultimate goal of this operation is, and
over the weekend I have come to a few conclusions. My guess is that
the Israelis DO NOT want to re-inhabit Gaza (duh) but, want to weaken
Hamas to the point that Israel can encourage Fatah and Abbas to come
back and take charge. Then the Israelis can let Fatah do the "mopping up"
of any remaining Hamas members or sympathizers. That will allow Israel
and the US to have the only Palestinian representative they APPROVE of
in charge..............ineffective and corrupt -Fatah. Abbas has been playing
"nice" with the West and Israel and how much has he accomplished for
his people? Yeah - just the kind of leadership the Israelis prefer!-
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dissent10 months, 3 weeks ago
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well one doesn't necessarily exclude the other ante up. my epiphany came when i saw the map i mention below and how the west bank has been separated from jordan and then divide into 20 or so smaller pieces. this was of interest to me because i was wondering why there was no uprising in the west bank against this assault on gaza. looking at the map and seeing this shows why.
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the only place remaining where the palestinians have any hope of coming from a position of any kind of strength because of its location to both the sea and egypt is gaza. i'm fairly sure they're now about to lose that. with hamas out of the way and fatah back in power the castration would only be that much more complete
http://www.sott.net/image/image/9591/israel-palest...-
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b-happy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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This is part of the Hamas Charter. The main parts:
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"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."
This is a war against Hamas. Hamas doesn't want peace. All they want is for Israel to be destroyed. They say it in plain words in the Charter that they abide by. The Hamas terrorists hide in Civilian Areas and use Palestinians as human shields so the media and Youtube can post videos of Israel retaliating and killing civilians that are living next to rocket launching pads and Hamas HQ. Also Hamas has been hiding rockets in Mosques and Hospitals so once again they can use propaganda to turn the world against Israel after Israel blows up the ammunition depots in the mosques.
If you doubt what Israel is doing, just look at Hamas. They follow a charter that calls for the destruction of Israel. Israel has called for peace and that won't happen with Hamas who wants to see Israel DESTROYED. Once again read the Hamas charter and you will understand this.
Stop changing the argument to the civilian casualty's. Hamas is using them and you to justify the destruction of Israel who once said they would give 97% of the land back to Palestine only to have Arafat reject that with a vote for violence. Hamas is at fault and that is who is being targeted.-
PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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dissent10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Stop changing the argument to the civilian casualty's."
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as bad as they are, i have not mentioned casualties once in the comment you're responding to.
what i've mentioned is a map that shows clearly how palestinian land has withered away to almost nothing in the past 60 years, not by any force of nature but by the deliberation erosion of the state of israel.
i know you haven't looked at it, b-happy, otherwise you could not in all seriousness say what you have said.... so, just for you, here it is again.
http://www.sott.net/image/image/9591/israel-palest...
now put down the loaded rhetoric for a moment, and tell me what you see with your own eyes.
all charters, posturing, bravado and such nonsense aside, THIS is the reality. THIS is israel's charter-
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b-happy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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First off here is the Hamas charter URL that you supposedly support in killing all Jews. Hamas once again is the leader of Palestine and the ones that are firing rockets into Israel to kill the Jews. Plain and simple, Hamas wants to kill all jews and destroy Israel and some how you still support them. I don't get it.
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http://www.acpr.org.il/resources/hamascharter.html
Secondly, you should get out a map of pre- North America and then color it all in as Native American land. That's as much sense as showing me a map of Palestine with it all green. There were only a few populated areas when Israel was created and Israel expanded into the areas where people didn't want to live because it was pure desert. The Israeli's took this land and made it into farms and city's that would never be there if not for Israel. They fought for that land against three country's. Palestine was actually part of Jordan and Israel fought a war and won the land. Who did the Palestinians win a war against for that land?
Israel wants peace. But Hamas is the same radical Islamic group that we see in 9/11 or shooting people in Mumbai. They hate the west and the Jews. They say it clear and simple in their charter. How can you tell me that there will be peace with a group whose only purpose is too kill Jews? Where is the line drawn? Hamas fights israel by using civilians as human shields and you don't have a problem with that? Where is the outrage over a Hamas government that uses it's own peoples death for political purpose? Where is the outrage over a Hamas government that wants to kill all Jews? funny how you don't care about that. Killing Jews is fine to you which is unbelievable to me.
When Hamas is out then maybe there can be peace. Until then you and your Jew hating friends Hamas will be fought to the death by Israel since the sole purpose of Hamas is to kill all Jews.
Maybe we should give all USA back to the Native AMericans like your saying Israel should do for Palestine. Doesn't make sense unless you hate jews.-
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b-happy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Funny how this video just so happened to be front page Propeller material even though it happened three years ago. ANd it was HAMAS that bombed their own people. Nice choice of videos. Anyways...
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Just think if the Indian reservations were American haters and wanted to destroy us. And think that Mexico also hated us and were funneling rockets into these reservations. Now imagine that the Indian Reservations were firing rockets into our city's from the local reservation neighborhoods.
You think Americans would sit and let our people be shot at like your suggesting for Israel? Come on. Be real. We won this land just like Israel won their land. But the difference is you can reason with the Native Americans. Hamas wants to kill all the Jews. How do you reason with them when your a Jewish country? You don't. -
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AnteUp10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Thanks for he link, dissent ~
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I have the DVD, Occupation 101, and a few others that show the
disappearing "footprint" of Palestinians in the land mandated to
their possession. It is shocking to me that the USA states that
we oppose the building of new settlements on Palestinian land -
we say it.....................and then we behave as if it is not ONGOING.
The Foundation for Middle East Peace online has wonderful
resources that show not only the disposition of land, but also
the roads, and walls, and checkpoints that further fracture the
land AND the daily life of ALL Palestinians - young,old - worker,
student - Fatah,Hamas - Christian or Muslim - West Bank or Gaza.
I see NO plea for peace in these policies regardless of what the
government of Israel says.
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