Comments for Religious Jews protest against Israel in NYC »
Posted By Natureboy 11 months ago in ReligionReligious Jews protest against Israel in New York city; explaining that conflict between Arabs and Jews is political, not religious as Zionist/Israeli propaganda would have you believe.
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hyperbola11 months ago
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Even in Sderot, Israelis Say No to Gaza Attack
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It has been widely acknowledged that Israel began a public relations campaign soon after beginning their bombing campaign over Gaza. As usual, they have had plenty of help. One example of this was Alan Dershowitz's article "Israel, Hamas, and moral idiocy" which ran in the Christian Science Monitor on New Year's eve. In a tired tradition, Dershowitz tries to blame the Palestinians for making Israel kill them.
...I've been to Sderot: just over a year ago in November, 2007. ... I saw the devastating effects of the missiles from Gaza. Even though there had not been a death from these rockets in recent memory when I was there, I was not surprised to find that the missiles had inflicted an incredible mental wound on the residents. But I was surprised to find that although the people of Sderot who I met wanted the missiles to end they understood that militarism would not protect them. The people I met with were not calling for war, they were calling for negotiation. ... Even an IDF commander I met told me, off the record, "The Qassams [missiles] are like stones, there is no way to stop them. The only way is negotiation."
Even more amazing, residents of Sderot are organizing to try to end the attacks. Read the text of this petition signed by hundreds of Sderot's residents which has been posted at the website jews sans frontieres.
Clearly not all people in Sderot agree with these views, as has been shown. But it's also clear that Dershowitz and other proponents of the endless war will always use the people of Sderot as the cannon fodder they need in the moment. The residents of Sderot are primarily Mizrahi Jews, poor and working class, who have been settled on the periphery to play exactly this role. As much as Dershowitz might want to fight to the finish, those in the crossfire just want an end to the shooting.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/05/even-in-... -
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Justice4All11 months ago
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Thinker2211 months ago
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> ...I get angry when the same people try and equate any criticism of Zionism with anti-semitism.
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There is no need to get angry. Usually getting angry intereferes with someone's ability to use his/her brains properly. It is much better to try and understand a bit better what one is talking about.
Here is some basic information about Zionism, anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism for your convenience:
Zionism is a Jewish nationalistic political movement claiming that the Jews, just like any other ethnic group of people, have a right for self-determination (a sovereign state).
Anti-Zionism, therefore, is a claim that UNLIKE other ethnic groups of people the Jews DO NOT have a right for self-determination. Anti-Zionism treats the Jews DIFFERENTLY from, say, Japanese, Russians or Arabs.
Further, the definition of racism is 'different trreatment of people having different ethnicity or skin color'. Racism against Jews has a special name, anti-Semitism.
Anti-Zionism is different treatment of Jews and is, therefore, anti-Semitism. Case closed.
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hyperbola11 months ago
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It is not only religious jews in NY who are protesting against the attack. Israeli jews are also protesting.
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Where's the Academic Outrage Over the Bombing of a University in Gaza?
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/05/where39s...
Not one of the nearly 450 presidents of American colleges and universities who prominently denounced an effort by British academics to boycott Israeli universities in September 2007 have raised their voice in opposition to Israel’s bombardment of the Islamic University of Gaza earlier this week. Lee C. Bollinger, president of Columbia University, who organized the petition, has been silent, as have his co-signatories from Princeton, Northwestern, and Cornell Universities, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Most others who signed similar petitions, like the 11,000 professors from nearly 1,000 universities around the world, have also refrained from expressing their outrage at Israel’s attack on the leading university in Gaza. The artfully named Scholars for Peace in the Middle East, which organized the latter appeal, has said nothing about the assault.
While the extent of the damage to the Islamic University, which was hit in six separate airstrikes, is still unknown, recent reports indicate that at least two major buildings were targeted, a science laboratory and the Ladies’ Building, where female students attended classes. ...
..the Islamic University is the first and most important institution of higher education in Gaza, serving more than 20,000 students, 60 percent of whom are women. It comprises 10 faculties — education, religion, art, commerce, Shariah law, science, engineering, information technology, medicine, and nursing — and awards a variety of bachelor’s and master’s degrees. Taking into account that Palestinian universities have been regionalized because Palestinian students from Gaza are barred by Israel from studying either in the West Bank or abroad, the educational significance of the Islamic University becomes even more apparent.-
hyperbolaComment removed: Spam
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hyperbola11 months ago
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Those restrictions became international news last summer when Israel refused to grant exit permits to seven carefully vetted students from Gaza who had been awarded Fulbright fellowships by the State Department to study in the United States. After top State Department officials intervened, the students’ scholarships were restored — though Israel allowed only four of the seven to leave, even after appeals by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
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How should academics respond to this assault on an institution of higher education? Regardless of one’s stand on the proposed boycott of Israeli universities, anyone so concerned about academic freedom as to put one’s name on a petition should be no less outraged when Israel bombs a Palestinian university. The question, then, is whether the university presidents and professors who signed the various petitions denouncing efforts to boycott Israel will speak out against the destruction of the Islamic University.
Neve Gordon is chair of the department of politics and government at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev
Jeff Halper is the Director of the Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions (ICAHD)
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Thinker2211 months ago
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> ...conflict between Arabs and Jews is political, not religious as Zionist/Israeli propaganda would have you believe.
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We're yet to see ONE "Zionist/Israeli propaganda" source claiming that conflict between Arabs and Jews was religious.-
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Endoscopy11 months ago
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blowback11 months ago
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> Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".
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http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html
Zeev Sternell emigrated to Israel from Poland in 1951.
He is Léon Blum Professor of Political Science.
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Jerusalem, Israel.
His resumé includes co-editor of The Jerusalem Quarterly
and member of the editorial board of Journal of Political Ideologies.
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Thinker2211 months ago
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I have to agree that the best way to fight two emenies is to make these enemies fight each other.
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I DO NOT agree, however, that Israel "created" Hamas. This and all other organizations of Arab terrrorists were created by the Palestinian and other Arabs.
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Endoscopy10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Anybody in their right minds that as the real knowledge of how this mass started finds that statement both repugnant and laughable. Hamas is an outgrowth of a Muslim semi terrorist organization Muslim Brotherhood started in 1928. Israel was not a country at that time. The Muslim Brotherhood was committed to peaceful means except in Palestine and certain other places. The Muslim Brotherhood was not bloodthirsty enough for the group breaking off and creating Hamas in 1987. Then people say that Israel created Hamas. Ignorance abounds.
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blowback11 months ago
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> Hamas: Ceasefire for return to 1967 border
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Top Hamas official Mahmoud al-Zahar tells CNN ‘long-term truce’ possible if Israel withdraws to pre-1967 borders, releases Palestinian prisoners; as to possibility Hamas would renounce terror, Zahar says, ‘Israel is killing people and children and removing our agricultural system - this is terrorism’
Yitzhak Benhorin Published: 01.30.06, 08:17
Until Israel says what its final borders will be, Hamas will not say whether it will ever recognize Israel, Zahar said. "If Israel is ready to tell the people what is the official border, after that we are going to answer this question."
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3207845,...-
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blowback11 months ago
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> Climbdown as Hamas agrees to Israeli state
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· Negotiator says group recognises right to exist
· Hope for end to crippling sanctions on Palestinians
Chris McGreal in Jerusalem
The Guardian, Thursday 22 June 2006
Hamas has made a major political climbdown by agreeing to sections of a document that recognise Israel's right to exist and a negotiated two-state solution, according to Palestinian leaders.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/22/israel-
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blowback11 months ago
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> Hamas omitted its call for the destruction of Israel from its election manifesto, calling instead for "the establishment of an independent state whose capital is Jerusalem."
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas-
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Thinker2211 months ago
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Israel made a much longer way toward peace with the Palestinians as it specifically agreed to an Arab Palestinian state and NEVER called for destruction of any state.
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Further, a cease-fire is just that, a temporary stop of fighting so the sides will, possibly, have a chance to negotiate a peace agreement. As such, a cease fire can not and should not be linked to any pre-conditions. If Hamas was willing a cease-fire it would just ask for a cease-fire. It's that simple.
Hamas' "political climbdown" is equivalent to someone saying "Let us stop fighting for now as you're obviously stronger than I am... if you give me your wallet, your Rolex and your car keys. Tomorrow, however, I'll kill you". -
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Thinker2211 months ago
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> Hamas omitted its call for the destruction of Israel from its election manifesto, calling instead for "the establishment of an independent state whose capital is Jerusalem."
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This is a pretty laughable claim as there are only TWO possibilities to end the conflict.
One is to divide Palestine creating TWO states there, one for the Arabs adn the other for the Jews. The other is to create ONE "indedpendent state whose capital is Jerusalem" that will be either a Jewish state or an Arab state.
Will the "independent state whose capital is Jerusalm" be a Jewish one or an Arab one according to Hamas calling? What is your opinion, blowback?
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Endoscopy10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Go and read the Hamas charter. They have NEVER repudiated that and it is on the internet for all to see along with some of the other terrorist organizations.
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Hamas demands among other things.
1. The complete destruction of Israel and creating Sharia law to be in force there.
2. That when Islam ever conquers a place it MUST remail under Islamic control.
3. They ignore all outside organizations and governments trying to create peace there.
They use the Quran and sunnah giving the example of Muhammad to back up these demands. Therefore they are coming into this from a religious perspective. Why else would young men be willing to strap on a bomb and go into an area to be a suicide bomber. They believe when they do this they are a Muslim martyr that died killing the enemy and therefore go straight to paradise.
Anybody trying to say this is not religious is missing many brain cells. Go and look up the Hamas charter.
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jordan1111 months ago
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Zionists make it relgious too. They say 'god' gave them the holy land. Christian zionists agree with them, and instiggate settlements against UN rules. And before you bash the UN, it's them who gave Israeli's their home in the first place.
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Thinker2211 months ago
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> Zionists make it relgious too. They say 'god' gave them the holy land.
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This is not exactly true as Zionism is a SECULAR movement.
Furhter, UN is not and was not a real estate agent and it did not and does not distribute real estate. It's the PEOPLE of Israel who created their home just like people of any other country did.
You should read something about the subject, Jordan.-
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jordan1111 months ago
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I have researched it for a very long time. Zionism includes religious and traditional ties of the Jewish people to Israel. To varying degrees, Jewish Zionists may believe and do believe that 'god' gave them the holy land & christian zionists believe once they take it christ will return. Regardless of what the more secular movement thinks, those two hard line groups have helped to worsen the situation between the 'Palestinians' and Israeli's.
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Thinker2211 months ago
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> To varying degrees, Jewish Zionists may believe and do believe that 'god' gave them the holy land ...
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This is written in the BIble so religious people (those believing in the Bible) also believe in the Biblical promises. Zionism, however, was created as a SECULAR movement by SECULAR people. Now please consider the fact that about 80% of Israelis are SECULAR.
> ...those two hard line groups have helped to worsen the situation between the 'Palestinians' and Israeli's.
Can you elaborate on this please? I'm interested to know how exactly the religious Zionists helped to worsen the situation between the 'Palestinians' and Israeli's, if you don't mind.
For example, do you think that without them Palestinian "hard line groups" like Hamas or Islamic Jihad would be LESS determined to eliminate the Jewish state?
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Poor jordan ignoring history. Jews were mostly kicked out of Israel or Judah in 70 AD when Rome came in to get rid of the rebellion. Some Jews stayed there and their descendants are living there to this day.Sometime after 700 AD the Muslims attacked the world and captured this area at that time. In the middle ages the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) asked for help from the Pope. There were two letters requesting help from the Muslims attacking them. Travelers to Jerusalem were being attacked and robbed, killed, and sold into slavery. That along with the letters cause the Pope to start the Crusades.
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The Crusades attacked ant took the land that Israel occupies. That lasted about 200 years. Islam took it back and went on conquering again. Starting in the middle 1600's Jews started going back to their homeland. By 1840 there was a very significant number of Jews there. In WW1 Britian conquered the area and ended up officially in charge of Palestine in 1920. That was the beginning of the British mandate. Britian had a solution going back to the Balfour document of creating a Jewis and Muslim states. The Jordan River was to be the border. The League of Nations ratified that solution. After a back and forth with Germany in WW2 the British were back in charge. They then with the auspices of the UN created the two states in 1948.
Key point here is the British had ownership of the land. They gave the Jews one part and the Muslims another part. It was not "owned" by the Muslim governments at that time. That makes all of the blaming Israel for taking the land a Muslim lie. It was given to the Jews to set up a government. Then and to this day there have been a significant number of Muslims living there as Israeli citizens.
At that time Gaza was owned by Egypt and the west bank was owned by Jordan. The Muslims that left Israel at the order of the Muslims going to attack Israel either went to those areas or went back to Israel. Those who went back live there peacefully today. The term Palestinians was not used until the 1967 war. After Israel conquered those areas then the term Palestinian was started. At that time Israel tried to treat the "Palestinians" just like the other Muslims living there. They were part of Israel and had the rights of citizenship They rejected that and the terrorism began. So why when they got Gaza back did they not stop being terrorists. Read the Hamas charter and find out.
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hyperbola11 months ago
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Oh it is not a complicated situation thinker.
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Silence on Gaza is Complicity - We’re All War Criminals Now
The conflict causing this violence is not centuries old. Nor is it too complex to address. Prior to 1900, Jews and Palestinians lived together in Palestine for generations without the extreme levels of hatred and violence which now exist. With the advent of Zionism, the political movement to establish a Jewish state in all of historic Palestine, tensions began to escalate. The leaders of the Zionist movement sought to control more and more of what they considered to be land promised to them by God. In 1947-48, the violent ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homeland by Zionist militias and the creation of the Jewish state of Israel began the conflict in earnest.
Since then, Israel’s continued seizure of Palestinian land through the establishment of illegal settlements in the West Bank has accelerated the aggression. In addition, Israel has refused to abide by UN resolution 194 which guarantees Palestinians the right of return to or compensation for lands taken from them during the war in 1947-48. As a result of that war and the 1967 war Israel expanded well beyond the borders alloted to it by the original partition of Palestine and has been in violation of the Geneva Conventions as well as the terms of the original United Nations partition plan since its inception.
Though rarely if ever spoken about in any media source, the real reason for the conflict in Palestine is not Jews or Palestinians, it is the Zionist colonization of Palestine. Zionism, a virulent form of ethnic nationalism, fosters a culture of exclusivity and entitlement within Israeli society. Jews are “The Chosen People” living in “The Promised Land.” These inherently racist attitudes create an atmosphere which legitimizes collective punishment and human rights abuses against Palestinians simply because they are not Jews. Jewish lives are valued more than Palestinian lives. This attitude was epitomized by the statement of extreme right wing Israeli Rabbi, Eliyah, in April of 2008. “The life of one yeshiva boy is worth more than the lives of 1,000 Arabs."-
hyperbolaComment removed: Spam
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Endoscopy11 months ago
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Such ignorance on the part of those Jews. They obviously do not read about what is really going on there. They do not look into what the charter of Hamas says. They believe the al taqiyya (acceptable lying by Muslims) of people like hyper here spreading the Muslim lies.
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That document states that the ONLY ACCEPTABLE solution is for Israel to be obliterated and Sharia law to be instituted. They use the Quran, hadith, and Muslim scholars of the past to support the actions that they are proposing.
That fact takes it out of the realm of politics and into the realm of religion. How do you come to an agreement with an organization whose avowed aim is to obliterate you because of religious reasons?
Try and explain that away hyper and natureboy. Read the Hamas charter before you try.-
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hyperbola11 months ago
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Don't lie to us Endo. In 2006 Hamas agreed to modify those parts of their charter and offered a long term truce to Israel. Both Israel and the US never answered, but instead began a vicious campaign of starvation. More important would be to listen to real jews and address the genocidal nature of pseudo-jewish zionism.
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Why Israeli Anti-Zionists do not recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist as a Jewish state
In recent times, the demand has been raised, by representatives of the State of Israel, and by its supporters abroad, to recognize the State of Israel’s “right to exist as a Jewish state”. I am told that this demand is a debater's trick that was invented by Henry Kissinger several years ago. Be that as it may, what, if anything, is wrong with this demand?
If the goal is a negotiated peace agreement, or treaty, there is no need for recognition of “the right of the State of Israel to exist as a Jewish state”. If the goal is to sabotage the possibility of a negotiated agreement, this demand has been placed front and center. A couple of other examples, just to illustrate the preposterous nature of the demand: Has anyone ever asked the Catholics of Ireland to recognize the right of Ulster, or Northern Ireland, to exist as a “Protestant state”? Would we recognize the right of any state to exist as a “Hindu state”? As a “Muslim state”? Just to pose the question is to expose its nature.
But, maybe we are not talking about “Jewish state” as a state affiliated to the Jewish religion. Maybe we are talking about a state that is defined by the dominant ethnicity. In that case, the position does not get any better.
...we have had our fill of states whose raison d'etre is to preserve ethnic superiority and domination. One does not have to refer to the late unlamented “Aryan state”. Within recent memory, we had white-supremacist Rhodesia and apartheid South Africa. Whatever limits there are to analogies from and to these white supremacist regimes, we have learned that states that define themselves with reference to the domination of one ethnic group cannot claim legitimacy.
Israel and its allies insist that the Palestinian victims of Zionism must “recognize Israel as a Jewish state with a Jewish majority.” No one seems concerned about the fact that this ultimatum flies in the face of elementary democratic values regarding human equality and human rights. Israel’s backers seek to legitimize that which is illegitimate by any standard of democracy.-
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hyperbola11 months ago
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Israel and its allies insist that the Palestinian victims of Zionism must “recognize Israel as a Jewish state with a Jewish majority.” No one seems concerned about the fact that this ultimatum flies in the face of elementary democratic values regarding human equality and human rights. Israel’s backers seek to legitimize that which is illegitimate by any standard of democracy.
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This dispute is not about borders. In Ilan Pappe's recent book – “The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” – he describes the events in a process of ”ethnic cleansing” conducted by the forces under David Ben-Gurion's leadership, from December 1947 through December 1948. An older book, by Sabri Jiryis - “The Arabs in Israel” - describes a reality of racist segregation and racist discrimination.
Fundamentally, Zionism would prefer more land and less Palestinians. Zionism never wanted a Palestinian underclass. But, since the ethnic cleansing of 1947-48 was incomplete, there is much still to be done to achieve the goals of Zionism, and therefore much conflict and much oppression. So, the State of Israel demands a priori recognition of the irreversibility of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and the legitimacy of a racist regime. To summarize, the State of Israel is characterized by 3 essential features:
settler-colonialism
ethnic cleansing; and
racist discrimination.
Anti-Zionist Israelis fight to reverse, to overturn, those three essential features of the State of Israel.
...So, there can be no “right to exist” of the State of Israel as a “Jewish state”, whether we are referring to the dominance of a religious group or of an ethnic group. Add to that the fact that the State of Israel is the main engine of anti-Semitism in the world today, as Lord Montagu predicted in 1917.
And that is why anti-Zionist Israelis do NOT “recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist as a Jewish State”.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/05/why-isra... -
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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More al taqiyya hyper. Being a good Muslim and lying about Hamas. The PLO modified their charter but FATAH the governing body didn't. With the example of Muhammad Muslims are allowed to say anything and use any armistice to rebuild for the next attack. He did that with the three tribes of Jews in Medina and with Mecca. I go by the on line document which if changed has not been distributed to reflect the changes. What I believe of what a Muslim terrorist says of renouncing their intentions like that are ZERO. The basic reason is they would have to renounce the Quran and Hadith from which they get their reasons for doing these things. There is always the concept of al taqiyya (lying for Islam) that is part and parcel of Islam. Bring forth the abrogated peace verses instead of the verses that abrogated them like the sword verse.
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I get the concept from the Quran. That and the Hadith is supposed to be the place where all good Muslims get their beliefs. I learned about it by having it practiced on me. I was told that in war Muslims are only supposed to kill armed men and never unarmed men, women, and children. Also Muslims are not supposed to destroy buildings or trees. I could not understand why the terrorists were doing these things. I started learning about what the Muslim holy books really said. I learned about the abrogation verses. I learned about the life of Muhammad who is the example to all Muslims. That man broke all treaties he made, lied to people to promote his religion, etc. His story is the example the terrorists are following.
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hyperbola11 months ago
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Well, here is another fanatic cheering genocide from afar. Real jews don't think much of your attitude and are tired of being used by zionists.
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Jews sans frontieres: Sderot Jews Condemn Gaza Attack
Despite the ongoing rocket attacks on their town from Gaza in the last several years, some 500 Sderot residents have recently signed a petition calling to stop the IDF operation in the Strip and renew the truce with Hamas.
The tragedy of Sderot is that nobody in Israel cares about the people of Sderot beyond the lip service to their utility as sacrificial lambs for the "national cause" (i.e. the cause of ethnic cleansing and apartheid.)
Well, some Sderot residents are stepping up to the task and speaking for themselves. Their petition calls on the government to keep the peace is here in Hebrew. Unfortunately no translation, but see my translation below.
the petition continues:
On the other side of the border live a million and a half Palestinians under unbearable conditions, and most of them want, like we do, calm and the opportunity of a future for themselves and their families.
We live in the feeling that you have wasted that period of calm, instead of using it to advance understandings and begin negotiations, as well as for fortifying the houses of residents as promised.
We call on the Prime Minister and the Defense minister not to listen to the voices of incitement and do everything they can to avoid another round of escalation, to secure the continuation of the calm and to work...towards direct or indirect negotiations with the Palestinian leadership in Gaza in order to reach long term understandings.
We prefer a cold war without a single rocket to a hot war with dozens of victims and innocent fatalities on both sides.
We ask you to offer us the possibility of political arrangement and hope and not an endless cycle of blood.
This petition has been gathering signatures in Israel since the 11th of November. Needless to say, it was ignored by the murderous office holders of Israel.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/06/jews-san...-
MutainiaComment removed: Spam
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Spadecaller11 months ago
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There is one haunting reality that gnaws at me each time I read or see George Bush Jr. justifying the wars with Israel and Iraq; I know that U.S. corporations provide many of the weapons, the missiles, the mortars, the rockets, the guns, and the ammunition for all the participants involved in the fighting, which Hamas, Hezbollah, and Israel use against each other.
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The idea of long protracted wars that have no possibility of a definitive solution -- are the perfect means for generating ongoing revenue for the warmongers machinery to stay in operation. The business of war preys on the hatred of bitter rivalries. The Iraq and Vietnam wars were never wars that needed to be fought, but they were sold to the American people by lies and fear mongering.
The Israeli and Palestinian people are also being exploited; not just by their militant fundamentalist leaders,or by vengeance, bigotry, and hatred, but by the corporations that profit from their fighting.
Did Dick Cheney and George Bush Jr. ever really care about weapons of mass destruction? Of course not. They care about making money. Does Bush really want peace in the middle east?
He dosn't give a rat's ass; he is a ruthless business man.
The propaganda against Israel and the Palestinians is piled so high only a fool can claim they really know the truth.-
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Thinker2211 months ago
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> There is one haunting reality that gnaws at me each time I read or see George Bush Jr. justifying the wars with Israel and Iraq;
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Frankly, I do not recall that George Bush Jr. ever justified wars with Israel. I'm afraid that you've confused President George Bush Jr. of the United States with the late Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran who justified wars with both these countries.
In addition, I do not think that Israeli people are being exploited byt their "militant fundamentalist leaders" as I'm not aware of any such leaders. Even the most extreme Israeli leaders did not and do not go as far as the "moderate" Palestinian, Syrian or Iranian leaders do as no Israeli leader ever demanded destruction of any state.
I wonder, however, what gnaws at you each time you read about Hamas missiles exploding in Israeli cities.-
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Spadecaller11 months ago
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Thinker22:
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"I wonder, however, what gnaws at you each time you read about Hamas missiles exploding in Israeli cities."
My heart breaks. I love Israel. I have an aunt and cousin there and I have planted trees there.
The issue is too complex to make judgments of me without knowing where I stand. You just don't know. I suggest that you refrain from making a fool of yourself with any more assumptions.
I do not agree with all of the decisions and the political parties in Israel; just like I do not agree with everything my government does. Anyone who agrees with everything their government does must either be an idiot or brainwashed.
FYI: Bush justified the Israeli conflict yesterday and it was televised on national TV.
He has said the same many times regarding Iraq also. Get real.-
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Thinker2211 months ago
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> I suggest that you refrain from making a fool of yourself with any more assumptions.
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I did not make any assumptions yet. This was the reason I've asked the questions above.
I still do not recall a single occasion when President George Bush Jr. of the United States justified war WITH Israel and Iraq (saying that country A is at war WITH another country B mean that A and B fight each other). As I've said it was the late Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran who called for a war WITH Israel and who justified a was WITH Iraq that lasted more than 10 years. -
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Thinker2211 months ago
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> I do not agree with all of the decisions and the political parties in Israel; just like I do not agree with everything my government does. Anyone who agrees with everything their government does must either be an idiot or brainwashed.
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This is a pretty broad statement having no "meat". Instead of calling others people idiots or brainwashed you may explain WHICH decisions of Israel you disagree with and WHY. Then those who think differently will have a chance to realize that they're brainwashed idiots themselves.
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canadianrancher5711 months ago
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When I read the title of this I would have to leave out the Religious part, it is not so much an issue of Religious Jews as peaceful Jews. There are three types of people when it comes to war. There are those who would not fight under any circumstances and would die at the hands of the enemy, these people are few and far between. Then there are people who believe in peace who under certain conditions will go to war,[and I do believe at times there are just wars]. Then there are those who will fight any war or promote war at all times for their own reasons.
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The difference between the peaceful warrior and just a warrior is the peaceful warrior will fight but leaves the door open to peace, were one who lives for war will not open the door ever.
These Jewish people are likely peaceful warriors, they would fight if they thought this was a just war, which they likely feel it isn't.
AS for George Bush making comments about this war, that is all we have seen today at every news report. -
SandmonsterComment removed: Hard Banned
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