Comments for Stories that Deserve the Cyberspace Wastebasket »
Posted By Spadecaller 10 months, 2 weeks ago in Political NewsIn their quest to blame Obama for everything, PC25 and a few others post bogus stories to provide cheap and worthless entertainment on Propeller . So why do members who despise these articles of false propaganda promote them to the front page?
Is it that we are too weak and cannot resist the spectacle of pelting our most hated members with our noble swords of righteous indignation? Is it virtue that drives us to prop this trash and to pelt these morons with our love of decency and truth? Do we get a misshapen pleasure out of punishing these misguided messengers with our great wit and abounding knowledge? Are these questions worthy of our consideration?
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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PC25 and his kind would soon slither into obscurity, where they belong, if members on Propeller would boycott their trashy stories. Would that be such a grave sacrifice? Are we afraid that our odd attraction to this lowlife form of entertainment would disappear? Are we willing to be honest about their value and our part in promoting this crap? Can we do better?
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tehranchik10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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tehranchik:
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Perhaps you should first familiarize yourself with PC-25's stories. There is one now taking the lead position on the front page.
Take a look at this article and it will give you a good idea what I am attempting to address:
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/07/the-trut...
Tehranchik:
Post some false stories that have no basis in reality and let the community judge for itself. I have no power; I am just one individual. What is there to fear if you have nothing to hide?
If one wants to fabricate lies and post stories that have no basis in reality, they should not be surprised that some of us may choose to boycott their submissions when they are just scurrilous and rumor mongering attacks without validity.
When OJ Simpson was going to publish his latest book and Fox started to promote it, TV viewers took an unprecedented stand against FOX. They boycotted the station. This resulted in FOX dropping Simpson's trashy book.
The idea that a group can stand up against the press when it abuses the principles of fair play and honesty is a healthy thing, in my opinion.-
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned15 Replies
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GehlLady10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller,
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First I have to say I didn't listen to the whole story, I would have preferred text as I'm listening to music. I read through all the comments before I post my comment. I know I'm relatively new here, and may not understand how all of this works, but..........
First it was Hyper, and now this. To name pc25 is one thing. To add "and a few others", is something else.
If pc25, and the others, had written the articles he posts,or he had called you out by name, I may have been able to understand this attack from you. I'm not in any way defending the content of his submissions, only his right to post them, and generate whatever comments and ratings come his way. What this attack feels like to me is an attempt by you to control the content, comments, and rating of an open, public, discussion board. I have every hope that all of your opinions of Obama are correct, but for you to go to this extent to revile those that have a different opinion, does not give me confidence in your opinions. I would give much greater weight to a specific reference to information, a link, something for me to follow up on from you or anyone else that disagreed with a specific article of his in the comment section. Point/counterpoint. Debunked? Or not?
I can understand Klarissas comments here. She is usually named right after pc25, and she has taken a huge amount of heat, regardless of what she says, on most threads I have seen her on. I personally have rarely seen her be as short tempered as her comment to you in my short time here, but I'm sure she took this submission personally. I don't blame her. I get called out, (last time by Goppy) and sometimes I get cranky, sometimes it's just fun to yank his chain.
If you had PM'd your friends, started a conversation in your groups, I wouldn't have had this reaction. But this is, as Tehranchik said, makes me wonder, when will it be my turn? Or was I "one of the few"?-
mntnman444Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned9 Replies
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HannibalBarca10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Myself, I think you are one of the few, you have your views and state them, and do make valid comments...but as I said you are one of the few
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Besides, I have worked in the mud for years ; so slinging it does have a certain pleasure, and pc.25's articles brings out the trolls as targets
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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tehranchik:
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In addition to PC-25, I am sure you must have some experience with stories that are completely false, stories that are based on blatant lies, which result in foolish and immature exchanges. Have you propped stories that do not deserve promotion?
Perhaps you are among the saintly ones on Propeller... But, for the rest of us, who have fallen into the spell of these trashy stories, there might be something here to consider that is of value. Is that a possibility?
Have you ever found yourself sucked into the mudslinging contests? Are you willing to be honest about yourself instead of blaming me for scaring you?-
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CaptainLucid10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Also, Why does everyone from Biden to Spadecaller feel they have to apologies for Obama before anythings happened or he's even taken office."
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I feel the need to apologize for Obama because the republicans were about to reform the whole market but then sneaky Obama pulled the messiah card and told them that he had special permission to overrule a presidential veto or a 2/3 vote as long as it was about keeping the fraud going past the 20th. Obama let W down and now W has to try to come up with nonsense for a few more weeks when he is too busy trying to talk about his swift response to Katrina and 9/11..-
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dunkirk10 months, 2 weeks ago
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ROFLMAO, Id say you need to cut back on the meds a little. Altho I guess we did elect the right person for the job. It appears he was able to influence legislation before he was even elected and poor old McLame was just floundering about unable to add or help in the crisis.
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mntnman444Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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tehranchik10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I guess I look at the promotion differently than you do. I think some of the promotion, for me anyway, is used to get something into the light - debunk if possible. I have voted several articles and shared with friends for exactly this reason - debunking.
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Saintly - I don't think so. The halo doesn't fit. My history of props and comments is open for anyone to see. I'm sure there is sarcasm, cynicism and snarkiness galore. I think when something is untrue - we have to show it's untrue.
Lastly it's the idea of trying to control what someone else does is impossible. We can only control ourselves. I agree that blindly voting articles is an aggravation. I'm powerless to have any say in what users decide to do.
I'm late for work - I'll check in later.-
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aceofspades110 months, 2 weeks ago
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I agree with you tehranchik - I often prop outlandish & false articles if only to bring them into the light & keep them there for others to see the rancid ideas of some on Propeller. The comments posted about these articles also gives me some insight into the mindset of those commenting upon them, very often people reveal themselves in their comments to be completely different than I have been lead to believe they are. Let the light shine upon these maleficent postings just as turning on the light shows where the cockroaches lurk.
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rightfromwrong10 months, 2 weeks ago
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pc25...his attitude is that if he throws enough crap on the wall there is always idiots with an I.Q. of 91 or leas like George W. who can't disseminate the information, so therefore some of it will stick.
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Other imbeciles who work on behalf are Klarissa,Redriver and Endomorph...all of these must be paid by the right wing because they likely couldn't get jobs as Walmart greeters-
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Bucotch10 months, 2 weeks ago
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CaptainLucid10 months, 2 weeks ago
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http://www.ebaumsworld.com/pictures/view/1469/
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Hey Bucotch, looking good in your walmart uniform. -
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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BUCOTCH :
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"Walmart greeters have Obama voters beat in the I.Q. department."
Actually, the opposite is true. Liberals tend to outperform conservatives academically by a significant margin.
Spin this.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/106381/Obama-Education-...
"Barack Obama leads John McCain by a significant margin among voters with the most education. McCain leads Obama among those with the least education. Thus, it appears that Obama's strong showing among educated voters in the Democratic nomination contest would extend to the general election as well."
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006/pages/results/sta...
"College graduates are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican by a 53% to 46% margin. Those with postgraduate degrees are more likely to vote Democrat than Republican by a 58% to 41% margin."
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcg...
"U.S. medical students are considerably more likely to be liberal than conservative and are more likely to be liberal than are other young U.S. adults. Among these medical students, 5% self-characterized as politically very conservative, 21% conservative, 31% liberal, and 9% as very liberal.”
http://www.local6.com/education/2540402/detail.htm...
http://www.alec.org/am/pdf/2007_ALEC_Education_Rep...
Of the top 5 states with the HIGHEST academic achievement, 4 vote DEMOCRATIC (Minnesota, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire). Of the bottom 10 states with the WORST academic achievement, 7 vote REPUBLICAN (Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, West Virginia, Arkansas, Georgia, South Carolina).
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/departments/elearnin...
Of the top 5 "SMARTEST STATES," 4 vote DEMOCRATIC (Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Jersey). Of the 10 "DUMBEST STATES," 8 vote REPUBLICAN (West Virginia, Kentucky, Mississippi, Arkansas, Alabama, Louisiana, Tennessee, Oklahoma).
As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, I believe everyone, including PC25, should be able to post their own articles.
However, I also believe that like-minded users, like Spadecaller, also have the right to organize and boycott threads that peddle falsehoods.
It goes both ways.-
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CaptainLucid10 months, 2 weeks ago
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My personal favorite stat is when you look at how much more money dem states put into the federal piggie bank compared to how much republican states like the south suck out. In the south they should pledge alligence to the United States of California because we pretty much balance their budgets by ourselves. The difference between the south and mexico is the south has access to Californian money and loves to tell us how much they hate our morals and how evil we are while they take our money. It really burns me knowing the south won the civil war because we didn't let them seccede. I also like putting a protractor point on W's ranchette and drawing a circle that just misses the west coast, the great lakes and the northeast in other words a circle that is centered in texas but doesn't include any states that matter.
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RRconComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned11 Replies
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ah is this what you had hoped for Spade? The name calling like school kids, the IQ jokes and the making of 'lists' of those that shouldn't be 'allowed' their point of view?
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Marcus, once again, I implore you to reinstate the member blocking function, it will ease people feeling the need for these types of 'campaigns against free speech'.-
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mesodude10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Ah is this what you had hoped for Spade? The name calling like school kids, the IQ jokes and the making of 'lists' of those that shouldn't be 'allowed' their point of view?"
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--Who said anything about silencing anyone's point of view? I don't see where Spade says this anywhere. Post to you heart's content but why pollute the site with your personal crusade against Obama (or anyone) and in a way that is clearly not meant to foster legitimate debate? Just as Propeller encourages users to keep their comments relevant to the story I see no reason why users shouldn't be *discouraged* from flooding the front page with the equivalent of tidbits from the National Enquirer.
A boycott isn't censorship, slate. You have a right to mindlessly promote crap stories and we have a right to boycott them.-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I dunno Messo, I've witnessed much pollution from the left of Bush and every other person on the right. Fair is fair is it not?
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Besides, Spade could have accomplished this very easily using PMs to those in his group and have others of like mind contact those in their groups of friends.
Boycott all you want, making a thread to attack a member personally is snaky at best. -
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CajunChamp10 months, 2 weeks ago
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My take on what Slate meant is that, count 'em, how many replies are actually on-topic in direct response to the main topic as posted as opposed to the name calling, personal attacks and singling out others as (insert hate-stuff here). What has transpired here in this thread is exactly the same that Spade alludes that is being posted by pc25 and others. C'mon ... over 400 replies and ALL on-topic?
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CactusAnnie10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller is in blatant violation of the terms of use with this personal attack on one of my favorite posters, and it is not the first time.
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8. Your Responsibilities.
You may use Propeller.com for lawful purposes only. You may not submit, offer links from, or transmit through Propeller.com any material, or otherwise engage in any conduct that:
VIOLATES OR INFRINGES THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS including, without limitation, patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright, publicity or other proprietary rights; is unlawful, THREATENING, ABUSIVE, HARASSING DEFAMATORY LIBELOUS, deceptive, fraudulent, obscene, pornographic, invasive of another's privacy, TORTIOUS, or contains explicit or graphic descriptions, or accounts of, sexual acts;
victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of religion, gender, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, age, or disability;
impersonates any person, business or entity, including our employees and agents;
contains viruses or any other computer code, files or programs that interrupt, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software or hardware or telecommunications equipment, or otherwise permit the unauthorized use of a computer or computer network;
encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, or that gives rise to civil liability;
offers, promotes or encourages betting or wagering prohibited by law;
violates these Terms of Use, guidelines or any policy posted on Propeller.com, or
interferes with the use of Propeller.com by others.
You may not use Propeller.com in a way that could damage or impair our servers or networks. You may not interfere with any other party's use and enjoyment of Propeller.com. You may not attempt to gain unauthorized access to our services, user accounts, computer systems or networks. We may take any legal and technical remedies to prevent the violation of these Terms of Use.-
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HannibalBarca10 months, 2 weeks ago
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HannibalBarca10 months, 2 weeks ago
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And of course, rrcon personal threats to me are acceptable in your eyes as he is a con, so I deserve it right?
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Any poster that negs me because I stated that I lost a twin with our first pregnancy or another implies the surviving one will do him for $5 will not get a pleasant word from me.
Big difference between us is I insult them, not their family or country, and these are your friends.
So your quest about spade and rules falls short in my eyes-
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CactusAnnie10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Bullcorn! You insult the USA constantly, and you don't even know what you are talking about half the time.
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I didn't see the neg about your loss, there was probably something else in there that he was negging, but like I said, I didn't see it.
I have seen you go around stalking and baiting certain posters around here for a long time. You are relentless. You would do well to invite RRcon out for a beer when the spring thaw comes instead of constantly harassing him...
For your information, there is no quest, that is the sort of thing SC does. I was just pointing out the fact of the situation.
However I might fall in your eyes, is of no particular interest to me.
I do wish you warmth though, I am sure you need it where you are...-
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HannibalBarca10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Wrong again, I give what i get, and as I said those who insult my family get what they deserve.
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And never have I insulted USA, just your WH policies
Find any comment on me insulting USA,,,,you can't
And as for me stalking,,,,that troll can report me
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LegalBob10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Calling for a general boycott is fine. Naming someone as " .... and his kind ..." is getting a bit personal and on the edge. Nothing illegal but at the same time, not warranted. He could have justly mentioned " ... and articles such as PC25 posts" with linked references. It was a personal attack, veiled yes, and craftily written.
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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CACTUSANNIE :
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"Spadecaller is in blatant violation of the terms of use with this personal attack on one of my favorite posters, and it is not the first time..."
Once again, CACTUSANNIE unsurprisingly misses the mark.
Did you bother to listen to the entire link in full?
The speech was NOT directed at PC25 at all. The speech was addressed to "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller." SPADECALLER is not calling for censorship, neither is he "threatening" or "violating" PC25's rights. In fact, I'm sure he is fully aware that as a regular member, he doesn't have the permissions necessary to delete PC25's posts and threads.
No, SPADECALLER's speech was addressed to "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller" because it is calling for such like-minded members to exercise restraint when encountering an article filled with apparent falsehoods. In other words, don't just Prop every story that is sent to your mailbox. Read the article, evaluate its veracity and value, and then make the decision to Prop and/or comment.
SPADECALLER is not censoring, removing offending threads, deleting posts, or banning members.
SPADECALLER is not threatening PC25. In fact, his speech is not even addressed to PC25.
SPADECALLER is not threatening members to Prop only his approved stories.
Spadecaller is simply asking members to exercise some discretion.
Furthermore, this is a private forum, not a public space. It is neither your place to interpret the TOU, nor is it your place to determine whether the TOU has been violated. So your futile appeal to Propeller's TOU is just that -- futile.
LOL.-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Thanks for clarifying that point, ybdogsct. This short address was an appeal to the mainstream,centrist, and liberal members to exercise discretion in propping stories and to consider boycotting those that are based on lies and rumors. I believe that will benefit our community and improve the quality of debate.
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LegalBob10 months, 2 weeks ago
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First line:
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"In their quest to blame Obama for everything, PC25 and a few others "
First line of Spade's discussion:
"PC25 and his kind would soon slither into obscurity, where they belong,"
I would really like you, et al, on the witness stand. You wouldn't stand a chance.
Yes, I agree with the premis of the article but not singling out a particular individual. The article could have just as much impact without mentioning PC25, IMHO of course.
Good idea, Spade, but it won't fly.-
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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LEGALBOB:
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"Yes, I agree with the premis of the article but not singling out a particular individual."
There is nothing in the TOU that prevents members from referring to other individual member. The issue is whether or not Spadecaller was "threatening" PC25 with a personal attack. It was NOT a "threat" since the speech was not even directed at PC25, but rather to the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller."
Was the speech preachy? Yes.
Proselytizing? Yes.
A little "holier than though"? Sure, why not.
But there's nothing in the TOU that prohibits that. If there were, a number of the "Moral Majority" here on Propeller would have been banned quite a long time ago.
But the speech can't be construed as a "threat" if its not directed at PC25, even though it singles PC25 by name as a prime example of a member whose threads lack credibility and value.
If you claim Spadecaller is "threatening" PC25, then what exactly is Spadecaller threatening him with? Deletion of threads, deletion of posts, revocation of forum membership? No, I don't hear that anywhere in Spadecaller's speech. Besides, I'm fairly certain Spadecaller realizes he doesn't possess the necessary permissions to delete threads, remove posts, and ban members; if he did have these website permissions, Spadecaller wouldn't have had to create this thread.
If you have a sound argument, then by all means put me on the witness stand and present it. You certainly haven't impressed me thus far. Although as I stated earlier, this is a private forum, not a public space so your interpretation of the TOU means squat, but I'll certainly give you the opportunity to bloviate, if you wish.-
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LegalBob10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Gee, you sure add things to replies that don't exist. I did not SAY or mean that it was against the TOU. I did not SAY he was "threatening" anyone or even hint as such. When he said "PC25 and his kind" is where he stepped close to the line of personal attack no matter what the TOU says and the TOU doesn't even enter in to it from my standpoint, mine is a personal assessment.
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Also, sorry but this IS a public forum and not even on a private server. It's only considered private if you need a login and password to POST, not just READ. Some sites that ARE on an individual or company private server may not need to register, etc.
Whether or not you're "impressed" means diddly squat. Reading comprehension lessons should be considered in your immediate future.-
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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LEGALBOB :
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'If anonymous individuals can come here and READ the submissions then it's a PUBLIC venue, simple as that."
We are NOT talking about "anonymous individuals. We are discussing Spadecaller and PC25, two REGISTERED members.
Why is this so difficult for you to understand?
LEGALBOB :
"My point is "everybody" can post here, therefore it is a pubic access server."
Wrong.
Firstly, only REGISTERED members can post here. Users have been banned before without warning and they can be banned again. Likewise, spammer accounts and sock-puppet accounts are prevented from posting once they've been discovered. Not "everyone" can post here. Only registered members who have agreed to accept the TOU can post in the forums.
Secondly, you are changing terms to fit your altered reality. NOBODY is arguing whether Propeller exists on a public access server. The argument is whether or not the Propeller website is considered private property. If it is, AOL has full leverage to deny membership to anyone they deem unacceptable.
Get this through your thick head: Propeller is a private, for-profit venture. AOL reaps the generated revenue. AOL alone determines how to interpret/enforce its TOU. AOL determines whether to expunge threads, delete posts, and ban members. All the content on this website is the property of AOL. Period.
If you don't like it, tough. Like any membership club, the website belongs to AOL, and AOL makes the rules.
The fact you keep changing your story reveals just how tenuous your pathetic argument is.
LEGALBOB:
"Another example: You have an office. The boss chews you out in the middle of the office where all the employees can hear but they can't comment. OR the boss takes you into his office and closes the door and chews you out and invites your immediate supervisor in. Can you relate that to Private and Public?"
Actually, you had to click a link to enter this thread and even then you only were exposed to a snippet. In order to hear the full recording, you had to click another link to enter Spadecaller's personal website. Spadecaller's opinions certainly weren't imposed on your virgin ears. If you didn't want to hear what Spadecaller had to say, then perhaps you shouldn't have followed the TWO LINKS you voluntarily clicked.
A better characterization of what happened is this: Spadecaller invited all the Friends on his Friends List into a room to warn them about dubious stories PC25 was posting. You decided to enter not just the house (i.e., clicked the 1st link to enter the thread), but also decided to enter the very room where Spadecaller's friends were gathering (i.e., clicked the 2nd link to the recording on Spadecaller's personal website).
Spadecaller's tirade was not imposed upon you. Nobody forced you to follow those two links to Spadecaller's personal website.
As I said before, if you think you have a case, then why don't you put your money where your mouth is. File a suit for slander.
Go ahead.
Let's see just how strong your courage in your convictions is.
LOL. -
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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LEGALBOB:
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"When he said "PC25 and his kind" is where he stepped close to the line of personal attack no matter what the TOU says and the TOU doesn't even enter in to it from my standpoint, mine is a personal assessment."
Let me explain it simple terms so that even a simpleminded fool like you can understand.
You claim Spadecaller "personally attacked" PC25.
How? From a post that wasn't even addressed to PC25, but instead was addressed to the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller"? Can you demonstrate losses or damages PC25 suffered in this alleged attack?
Go ahead and sue for slander, if you think you have a case. Put your money where your mouth is.
LOL.
There's a profound difference between a personal attack and a call-to-action. This speech addressed to the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller" was a call-to-action.
LEGALBOB:
"Also, sorry but this IS a public forum and not even on a private server. It's only considered private if you need a login and password to POST, not just READ. Some sites that ARE on an individual or company private server may not need to register, etc."
Wrong.
This forum is private property owned by AOL. As such, the moderators are free to interpret the TOU, remove threads, delete posts, and even ban members as they see fit. This website is private property and any revenue generated by it goes to AOL's coffers. Period. If you don't like how AOL's moderators interpret the TOU, you don't have to participate.
I suggest you learn the difference, or return to your law books. Either you failed to learn it the first time, or your school was subpar. I would have expected more from someone who "claims" to possess a JD.
Pathetic.-
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LegalBob10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"mine is a personal assessment". Any idea what that means? Opinion maybe??!!
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Public/Private .. you have no clue as to what that means. To you, every server that is owned by an individual or company is a "private" server. Maybe I should make things a little simpler for you to understand. The fact that it is a "private" server owned by AOL has no bearing. If anonymous individuals can come here and READ the submissions then it's a PUBLIC venue, simple as that. If you post, nobody knows who you are other than the AOL folks when you register after which you can post with your handle which the PUBLIC reading your post has no idea who you really are. If the PUBLIC has no access to READ or to POST then that is a "Private" venue. I am not disputing the difference between privately owned and "public" access. My point is "everybody" can post here, therefore it is a pubic access server. I suggest you learn a bit more about the difference. When I was in law school there were no PC's or Internet.
Another example: You have an office. The boss chews you out in the middle of the office where all the employees can hear but they can't comment. OR the boss takes you into his office and closes the door and chews you out and invites your immediate supervisor in. Can you relate that to Private and Public?
Some ancient philosopher had it right:
He who knows and knows that he knows is a teacher, follow him
He who knows not and knows that he knows not, is simple, teach him.
He who knows not and knows not the knows not is a fool, shun him.
With that in mind, see ya.-
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LegalBob10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ok then, let's get on the same page.
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Propeller is hosted on a privately owned server (AOL) but is publicly accessible. Anybody can READ and anybody can POST (yes, registration necessary).
You said:
" Although as I stated earlier, this is a private forum, not a public space so your interpretation of the TOU means squat"
The "this is a private forum" is what I took/take issue with. It is NOT a "private forum", anyone can partake. Having to register to post does not make it a private forum as ANYone can register, even Valerie Putin.
And I was/am not interpreting the TOU but rather voicing my own opinion as I previously stated.
Summary: Private server, by definition, yes owned by AOL. Private forum, no, anyone can use it.-
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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LEGALBOB:
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"Private server, by definition, yes owned by AOL. Private forum, no, anyone can use it."
We differ in our definition of "use." Anyone can read the forum, yes. But not everyone (only registered members) can post messages. Likewise not everyone (only those who voluntarily agree to abide by AOL's TOU) can become a member. I define "use" to mean one can enjoy the full privileges of everything the website has to offer.
Furthermore, your office analogy earlier is invalid. Just because everyone can read the forum does not mean that its contents are in any way imposed upon you the public. Nobody forced you to listen to Spadecaller's rant -- you had to click the first link to enter this thread just to see the excerpt and then had to click a second link to be transferred to Spadecaller's personal website to listen to the entire recording in full. Even once you arrived at Spadecaller's website, his speech wasn't imposed upon you since you were free to close your web browser at ANY time.
I posted this earlier, but I'll post it again here for emphasis: You wrote earlier
LEGALBOB :
"Another example: You have an office. The boss chews you out in the middle of the office where all the employees can hear but they can't comment. OR the boss takes you into his office and closes the door and chews you out and invites your immediate supervisor in. Can you relate that to Private and Public?"
But that's not what happened here. What happened here was more like this.
A better example: Spadecaller invites Friends on his Friends List to his room to warn them of PC25's dubious articles. You not only enter the house (click the 1st link to enter the thread), but also enter the very room in which Spadecaller's friends have gathered (click the 2nd link to enter Spadecaller's personal website). And then you have the nerve to complain that Spadecaller's speech, which exists on his private, personal website, was imposed upon you the public.
Your description is simply not an accurate account of what transpired. Only interested parties would have followed both links, which were CLEARLY LABELED AND NOT MISLEADING IN THEIR CONTENT .-
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MotiGui10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I was an anonymous public user when I typed in the propeller.com address and the very first submission was this one. I was not invited in to anyone's private domain, their house or their private web site. I understand if Spadecaller has a web site and he posts content. I can either read it or not. But that's not a private space either unless it is not publicy available and the only way you can get there is if someone gives you the URL and access information. After that, caveat emptor. Propeller, by contrast is not anyone's private domain, anyone in the public arena can come here, read posts and reply (if they register) but they are still in the public domain, the exception being is that now they can post. In reality we are ALL in the public domain, you don't know who I am and vice-versa.
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My take is that you guys are talking about two very different things. There is a difference between a privately owned server, a private or public forum, a private or public website, etc. Private means just that, not accessible to the public to read OR to post. If Spadecaller's web site is able to be Googled then it's not a private web site. Lets say I type PC25 in the Google box and Spadecaller's site comes up, the first page being a login page in order to proceed to the message page(s). That would then be a "private" web site. If the message page in question pops up first then it's not private. Anyway, your take on "Bob" is not correct. He said right off that it was his own personal assessment which means "opinion" where I hail from.-
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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MOTIGUI:
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"If Spadecaller's web site is able to be Googled then it's not a private web site. Lets say I type PC25 in the Google box and Spadecaller's site comes up, the first page being a login page in order to proceed to the message page(s). That would then be a "private" web site."
This would never happen. If you type "PC25" in the Google search engine, it will search for websites that contain the words "PC25" and then display the websites in order from most cross-referenced to least cross-referenced.
But the word "PC25" does not exist on Spadecaller's personal webpage. It's an audio recording . So, no Spadecaller's webpage would not have shown up as a Google hit.
But don't take my word for it. Try it yourself. Type the words below (without quotation marks) into the Google search engine.
"Spadecaller PC25 site:www.freewebs.com"
Let me know how many hits you get.-
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LegalBob10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Cripes man, it's a loaded question, you already know the answer. You're missing the point. MotiGui posted an IF example. Yes, we all know it's an unknown web site per se and it can't be Googled, that's a given, but if someone posts the URL anyone can view it without a login which still does not make it a private web site unless you DO have to have a user/pass access. I have private web sites that nobody can view unless you have a user/pass even IF you have the URL, THAT is private. You're mis-applying "private" in this scenario.
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The point that you're missing is that this forum is not private, the server is privately owned. This is a public forum that anyone can access and read posts. Like the staff guy said, posting/replying is RESTRICTED to REGISTERED users. That does NOT make this a private forum. Actually and more accurately this is a "restricted public forum". Let's just put a period on this and if you still don't get it then we'll simply agree to disagree. This submission is not even on the front page any longer, so all this is really moot now.-
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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We've been talking past each other instead of to each other. You've been talking about the difference between the public sphere and private sphere. I've been talking about the difference between public and private property (Perhaps, I should have inserted the word "privately-owned forum" in place of "private forum" to avoid confusion. Fine. Whatever. The salient point is that AOL establishes its TOU, is solely responsible for interpreting the TOU, and can revoke membership as they see fit.
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But what's your point?
You still haven't demonstrated that Spadecaller's speech was anything more than a call-to-action addressed specifically to the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller." If you didn't want to hear what Spadecaller had to say, you shouldn't have accepted the invitation to visit Spadecaller's personal website. It's not like Spadecaller's link attempted to mislead you into visiting Spadecaller's personal website.-
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LegalBob10 months, 2 weeks ago
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First paragraph:
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Ok, once more .... My initial comment had nothing to do with the TOU or Spadecallers website and still doesn't. My statement was, as I mentioned to begin with, my personal assessement centering on Spadecaller's perceived personal attack on PC25 in the way he worded his first post and the introduction. That's it, nothing else, until you brought up private forum, of which I took issue and attempted to explain "private" and "restricted", etc. ad nauseum after which you proceeded way off into left field with accusations, name calling, doubting credentials and so on. Where in hell you got all that stuff escapes me..
Second paragraph:
I have/had no interest in his website, has nothing to do with anything regarding my personal assessment.
I have nothing against Spadecaller, it was only the way that PC25 was mentioned in the beginning, that's it. I didn't accept a personal invitation and I didn't visit the website, I have no interest in the site, only the difference between private and public in order to debate that issue that you brought up.
Have a nice day ....-
ybdogsctComment removed: Spam
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JayGarcia10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Let me clarify the last sentence a bit. The forum is open to the public to read and to post (restricted to registered users). That fact does not make the Propeller forums private forums. Private forums are those that the public cannot see or post to unless they have the necessary login criteria available.
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My UFAQ - www.ufaq.org - is a good example. I own the server which makes it a privately owned machine. The FAQS are there for everyone to read. The fora are there for everyone to read. If you want to post or reply you have to register. I also have 6 forums that are there for programming staff that are private, the public - registered or not - cannot see these, only the members that have the necessary login information.
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Klarissa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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right - I think that you forgot about the subject.
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Your personal attacks are a reflection on you, not on your victims.
You are the only one who controls what you write - If someone had written this about you, how would you feel - for example,
"Rightfromwrong must be paid by the democratunderground, because he likely couldn't get a job as Walmart greeter. -
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GLee10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I must agree Chik. This story in particular tops the list of Spadecaller's so called "trash" but will he be 'called out' by the Propeller Scouts for 'calling out' a respected fellow Propeller member, PC25? How dare Spadecaller for attempting to silence any voice on Propeller. This site is what America is all about. Different 'voices' with different opinions. What a shame! AND yes, just who is next on 'Callers list?
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mesodude10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"I think some of the promotion, for me anyway, is used to get something into the light - debunk if possible."
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---tehranchik, I have actually given my share of props to stories from those on the right for that very reason but more often than not it's not long into the thread that I realize the poster has no intent whatsoever to actually discuss the subject in any kind of intelligent or meaningful way. Here's how a typical exchange goes:
MR RIGHT: Obama's doing a terrible job. He sucks and ACORN is reeeally bad.
MESO: I think Inauguration Day is later this month but anyway, what criteria are you using?
MR RIGHT: What's criteria mean? Your dumb and your such an elitist.
MESO: Ok...Getting back to the topic, why do you think Obama will destroy the country?
MR RIGHT: Because he sat in that dang pew for 50 years and listened to Rev Wright. Also he's just a socialist who wants to raise my taxes and create big government and kill babies and next thing you know black people will be asking for reparations. Plus his birth certificate was a forgery.
MESO: I see... ;-x-
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CaptainLucid10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I am not as polite as Meso. I would rip someone a new hole if they tried to pass that on my watch. If you know what Acorn refers to and what the lending law really stated about making loans to blacklisted neighborhoods you get a free pass for awhile. So far the prize sits unclaimed.
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Radiofreeeuropa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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People should understand that reading a story gives it a higher rank.
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Commenting higher still.
Commenting more -higher still.
"proping" higher still.
I think many are missing the point of Spadecaller's piece.
I am embarrassed sometimes when stories of obvious untruth or extremely poorly written ad-farms are voted up to number 1 on the front page. It makes our community look bad. (Or at least wacky).
I don't see why anyone would vote for a story that they found of poor quality.
Commenting, yes I understand.
I see voting as recommendation.
I often look at stories the people I respect have propped and if it's a picture of someone's cat, or a KKK blog, or some blathering by someone incapable of stringing more than 2 syllables together, I feel their honor is tarnished a bit.
There should be no censorship of course, submit what you wish, but as responsible citizens of the virtual community I hope people will only vote-recommend stories of honest interest . If it's brown..flush it down.
those were theses Martin Luther put on the front door. Not feces!
Now if you think it's good, interesting, or important ,vote.
If it's roadapples, commenting raises it's ranking enough, for goodness sake don't give it credibility. There is a contingent of laughable goosestepping nazis and KKK members fouling the same dimwitted garbage threads over and over...I for one learned there is no point reasoning with them or communicating with them as that would be less fruitful than reasoning with a slug.
This has absolutely nothing to do with politics as there are plenty of reasonably intelligent members of all political stripes who I enjoy debating with.
This is about seriously feeble minded ogres or actual operatives up to mischief.
Don't help them.
Don't encourage them.
Judging from the hate mail, I'm quite sure some think my posts are" the debil".
That's fine, by all means if you don't like them don't vote for them.
Debate what's worthy of debating, but if someone submits "Joe is a poopyhead from mars with fish flops on his feet" don't waste electrons voting for it please.
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Klarissa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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guppythefishComment removed: Retracted by user
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Klarissa
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I have nice things to say about many people; in fact I have done so on this very thread. I guess you don't agree with them. That's your right. Now about the hot air... that seems quite negative. Perhaps some anger management might be in order.-
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Klarissa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Klariss as usual, you twist reality to suit your contempt for those you dislike. You have the right to tell me to shut up. That doesn't mean you have the power to enforce it. You have the right to be full of hot air and to accuse others of the same.
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You even have the right to tell me to leave Propeller and I have the right to tell you to get lost too. But, neither of us have the power to enforce it. So your first amendment reference is irrelevant. No one has usurped your rights to act like the complete fool that you have demonstrated in your childish outrage.
I am not advocating to shut anyone one up, or telling anyone to leave propeller. Are you really that mixed up that you are unable to understand that we all have rights. I have the right to denounce false stories. Do I not?
I am not a dictator. I have no power to shut anyone up or to force anyone to leave propeller. But the community has the right, if it chooses to exercise it, to prop or not prop stories. Your thinking and misguided accusations are absurd. I don't think your elevator goes to the top floor; you might want to get someone to check that out for you.-
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Klarissa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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spade - have I ever told anyone on here to shut up? Have I ever told you or anyone else to leave?
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I respect your right to be on here and say what you want to say.
I do not have to agree with what you say, and I have the RIGHT to say so and it should be without personal attacks in return.
Unfortunately some on here have limited vocabularies that only contain the words hate, bu__shot, anger, low life, trash, as usual, etc.
Furthermore, you have made a lot of assumptions about those that comment negatively to what you have to say. Just perhaps, you are the radical one, and others are for the American freedoms guaranteed by the constitution.-
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CaptainLucid10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"I do not have to agree with what you say, and I have the RIGHT to say so and it should be without personal attacks in return."
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Oops we almost had it right until you mentioned that you thought that you were entitled to post without criticism, I am not here to rip you only to offer a but of advice. If you want talk politics here you better know your facts by heart, pick fights carefully, and know even if you are completely correct you will probably get ripped anyway so don't take it too personally. -
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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KLARISSA :
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"The first amendment applies to those you don't like, don't like what they say, or represent. Telling people to shut up, or leave propeller, would be the epitomy of a dictatorship."
Did you bother to listen to the entire link in full?
The speech was NOT directed at PC25 at all. The speech was addressed to "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller." SPADECALLER is not calling for censorship. In fact, I'm sure he is fully aware that as a regular member, he doesn't have the permissions necessary to remove offending posts and threads.
No, SPADECALLER's speech was addressed to "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller" because it is calling for such like-minded members to exercise restraint when encountering an article filled with apparent falsehoods. In other words, don't just Prop every story that is sent to your mailbox. Read the article, evaluate its veracity and value, and then make the decision to Prop and/or comment.
SPADECALLER is not censoring.
SPADECALLER is not removing offending threads, deleting posts, or banning members.
SPADECALLER is not threatening members to Prop only his approved stories.
Spadecaller is simply asking members to exercise some discretion.
You claim the 1st Amendment gives PC25 the freedom of speech to post his stories, but you conveniently forget that the 1st Amendment also gives SPADECALLER the right to peaceably assemble in order to ensure worthy stories reach Propeller's Front Page. It works both ways -- you can't use the 1st Amendment to defend PC25 without also vindicating SPADECALLER.
In actuality, however, your futile appeal to PC25's 1st Amendment rights are bogus as this is a private forum, not a public space. And therefore, the moderators are permitted to remove threads, delete posts, and ban members as they wish.-
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GehlLady10 months, 2 weeks ago
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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GELLADY:
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"Then why is this the first line of the commentary posted by spade?"
1) In the quote you cited, the first words are "In their quest...." If SPADECALLER had directed his speech toward PC25, he would have used the words "In your quest..."
2) Why would SPADECALLER need to remind PC25 of what PC25 was doing?
Use your head.
Clearly, SPADECALLER was not talking to PC25, but describing to the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller" the political tactics PC25 was employing.
SPADECALLER addressed his speech to the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller" telling them about some articles posted by "PC25 and a few others" which he felt were not newsworthy. As such, SPADECALLER is encouraging members to use discretion before Propping and/or commenting on stories that reach their mailboxes.
If you can't even comprehend this much, then it's apparent your literacy skills require remediation.-
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GehlLady10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"If you can't even comprehend this much, then it's apparent your literacy skills require remediation."
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Perhaps you should check your own.........
".In their quest"
I read" their" to be pc25 AND A FEW OTHERS..........
He was directing his 'speech' TO other members about "pc25 and a few others.
I understood him, and you as well. Parse words, nuance all you want, the meaning was very clear. He urged other people not to read, comment, or prop PC25, and a few others, submissions, in the most public way possible. He knew pc25 would see it, he deliberately called him out publicly, instead of going to his (SC) groups, or sending messages to his(SC) friends. In that sense, yes, it was directed at him, pc25, and a few others.-
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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GEHLLADY :
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"I read" their" to be pc25 AND A FEW OTHERS.........."
1) Of course, that's who the word "their" referred to. However, Spadecaller was NOT describing the actions of "PC25 and a few others" to PC25; Spadecaller was describing the actions of "PC25 and a few others" to the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller."
Why would he have to tell PC25 what PC25 was doing? There's no logic in your statement at all.
2) If Spadecaller was to PC25, then he would have used 2nd person pronouns like "In your quest." But Spadecaller wasn't talking to PC25; he was talking to the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller" about PC25 and therefore used 3rd person pronouns like "in their quest."
I don't know why basic English is so difficult for you to understand. Is English not your native language? Or does your inability to comprehend the difference between 2nd person and 3rd person language stem from a lack of formal education?
GEHLlADY :
"He urged other people not to read, comment, or prop PC25, and a few others, submissions, in the most public way possible."
And that's certainly with Spadecaller's right to do that. Just as its within PC25's right to post whatever tabloid blogs he chooses, so is it within Spadecaller's right to organize like-minded individuals to exercise discretion in their Propping and Commenting habits. The 1st amendment protects not only PC25's right to free speech, but Spadecaller's right to peaceably assemble the "mainstream centrist and liberal members of Propeller" to exercise discretion in their Propping and Commenting habits.
Although in truth this is a private forum, not a public space so the 1st Amendment doesn't apply. However, there's certainly nothing in the TOU that prohibits organization and mobilization among Propeller members. In fact, the entire concept of having Groups, Friends, Fans, and Idols seems to promote such organization within a social news site like Propeller.
GEHLLADY :
"He knew pc25 would see it, he deliberately called him out publicly, instead of going to his (SC) groups, or sending messages to his(SC) friends. In that sense, yes, it was directed at him, pc25, and a few others."
Am I supposed to believe that despite your incredible deficiency in basic reading comprehension, that you are some sort of clairvoyant expert who can see into Spadecaller's mind and interpret his motivations?
LOL.
FYI, not everyone is as passive-aggressive as you are. There are other reasons why Spadecaller may have decided to post this as a thread instead of privately messaging his Friends.
1) Posting this as a thread was the quickest way to reach as many people as possible. It would have been incredibly tedious for Spadecaller to privately message each individual on Spadecaller's Friends List.
2) Posting this as a thread enables it to reach the silent Propeller members whose activity is limited to reading and Propping, but are otherwise not a member of any Group, Friend List, Fan List, or Idol List. Many times it is the votes of these Silent Members which enable a story to receive enough Props to reach the Front Page, so this demographic is an important one to reach for Spadecaller's message to be most effective.
In the end, you have NOTHING to prove your interpretation of Spadecaller's post and motivations. In fact, there are certain elements which I pointed above that seem to directly contradict your interpretation that Spadecaller was directing his speech at PC25.-
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GehlLady10 months, 2 weeks ago
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You appear to be a reasonably educated idiot.
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1. I didn't attack Spadecaller.
2. I didn't say he had no right to post this submission.
3. I don't have to be clairvoyant to know that SC knew this would hit the front page, and that pc25, and a few others would see it, therefore directed at him by way of using other "likeminded' members. To claim otherwise is disingenuous.
4. By posting this as he did, he opened himself to all comments, supportive or not. By your behavior, you have only proven the worst accusations from the other members here that didn't agree with Spadecaller.
Save your insults, they do not serve you well.-
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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GEHLLADY :
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"I don't have to be clairvoyant to know that SC knew this would hit the front page, and that pc25, and a few others would see it, therefore directed at him by way of using other "likeminded' members. To claim otherwise is disingenuous."
How? How would he have known that? I've submitted 82 articles myself and less than half of them have made Propeller's front page.
Once again your post lacks PROOF .
GEHLLADEY: :
"By posting this as he did, he opened himself to all comments, supportive or not. By your behavior, you have only proven the worst accusations from the other members here that didn't agree with Spadecaller."
Yes, Spadecaller did open himself to both positive and negative comments, but I never denied members the right to post negative comments at all. In fact, in my first post on this thread topic, I DEFENDED PC25 and claimed that PC25 had the right to post any article he wanted, just as Spadecaller has the right to organize "Friends" on his "Friends List" into exercising discretion when encountering one of PC25's stories. Here is the quote from my first post on this thread again in case you missed it the first time.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/08/stories-...
YBDOGSCT : "As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, I believe everyone, including PC25, should be able to post their own articles. However, I also believe that like-minded users, like Spadecaller, also have the right to organize and boycott threads that peddle falsehoods."
GEHLLADY :
"Save your insults, they do not serve you well."
It's not an insult. It's a helpful suggestion.
After all if you can't distinguish between 2nd person and 3rd person language, if you can't determine the target audience of a piece prose, then perhaps you do need to take a class or three in English literature.
Who knows? You might actually learn something.
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PatrioticAmerican10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Bullsheet Spade you can not say you where not attacking Pc25 or myself for that matter , you seem to think that the only stories that should be propped are yours and your moronic friends here on prop. You seem to think that their is only 1 side to a story and dont want the other side aired because it may contradict your BS . you and your kind (left loons) are whats bad for this site and America you want everyone to wear blinders and listen to just your side, well there are 2 sides to every story and we will continue to post our side with out censorship
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GehlLady10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Thank you ybdogsct!"
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Spade,
You are thanking him for a comment that included personal attacks on me.
I did not call you names, or attack you, or him/her. I tried to give my reaction and opinion respectfully, even though it wasn't supportive of your views. Now that I see you don't value those qualities, my former high opinion of you has changed. I do understand you most likely don't care, you obviously have more than enough friends here you don't need me, however, how sad that you would support personal attacks simply because someone disagreed with you.
Nuance however you want, this posting of yours was intended for pc25 et al to see, therefore, directed at them.-
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Sabretooth10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"You appear to be a reasonably educated idiot."
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"I did not call you names, or attack you, or him/her."
"Save your insults, they do not serve you well."
An honest question, are you bipolar? In each post you seem to contradict yourself, you may want to ease off on the insults as you are making yourself an easy target.-
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GehlLady10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I had to laugh when I read your question, with my 3 quotes. Put together like that it does look contradictory, but no, I'm not bipolar.
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In the first quote to ybdog, I was a little cranky at his/her post to me on my reading comprehension, and it went from there.
For the most part I do try to have, and enjoy, a respectful debate. I don't always succeed. I will take your advice, and try harder.
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Wrong again, SLATE.
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My thread was not about PC25. It was about the Judicial Watch letter that PC25 posted as "evidence." In that thread, I spent the majority of my time laying out a well-supported argument for why Judicial Watch's conclusions should be discredited.
I realize your literacy skills are deficient from a lack of formal education, so here once again are the bits of evidence I used to discredit Judicial Watch.
Spin this.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/06/blagorahma-d...
"The letter acknowledges a discussion between Blagojevich, Obama, and Joe Biden, but the full context of the letter suggests that the conversation involved economic policy and not Obama’s Senate seat. In fact, the letter appears to be nothing more than a pro-forma, polite acknowledgment of a meeting, and has no real inculpatory value. Allahpundit e-mails me to say he’s 99.9% sure that the meeting referenced was at the governors conference in Philadelphia — and that Sarah Palin probably got the same letter as Blagojevich.
Barack Obama did say that he had 'no contact' with Blagojevich, and the letter obviously negates that in a literal sense. However, the context for 'no contact' was in regards to specific discussions about replacing Obama in the Senate, not 'no contact' ever, at least between Obama himself and Blagojevich."
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803170002
"Limbaugh repeated false Judicial Watch attacks linking Obama to FARC."
http://www.domainnamenews.com/legal-issues/judicia...
"Government watchdog JudicialWatch posted an article today declaring the domain name Change.gov, the location of U.S. President-elect Barack Obama’s newest website may have been illegally granted. It seemed to us that Judicial Watch was making a mountain of a mole hill here, so we looked a little harder at what was presented.
The letter from Obama requesting the domain shows no sign of 'demands' or 'pressuring,' but merely states that they are requesting a waiver for the use. Judicial Watch is headed by Conservatives. No real surprise here."
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16680.ht...
"For the folks at the conservative activist group, the Clintons have served as the most splendid political rawhide. The gnawing has gone on now for the last 15 years, and seems set to pick up anew with a Clinton return to the executive branch.
Indeed, the very word 'Clinton' once had an almost Pavlovian ring to Judicial Watch, which nearly pushed itself to fringe status with its relentless investigations of Bill Clinton’s presidency."
http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2008/12/judicial...
"While U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald has stated that Obama is not a target of his investigation, Judicial Watch has tried to link the president-elect with the scandal."-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"I realize your literacy skills are deficient from a lack of formal education, so here once again are the bits of evidence I used to discredit Judicial Watch."
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LOL you are a Putz of the highest order aren't yas?
Act innocent all you want Dawgs even we unedumacted folks without the 'formal indoctrination' you went through can see the thread for what it was.-
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Is that really the best response you can muster?
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It's interesting that you once again failed to make a single constructive, evidence-support comment about the SUBSTANCE of the thread -- the validity of the conclusions reached by Judicial Watch.
How expected.
LOL.-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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ybdogsct10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I have nothing personal against PC25 or any other member on Propeller, as I don't know any of you personally. My "personal axe to grind" is SOLELY the distribution of false information, which is precisely why I always take care to support my arguments with evidence -- a practice you fail to do every time you post.
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In fact, I've already stated several times, even on this very thread, that PC25 has the right to post any article he wants.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/08/stories-...
YBDOGSCT : "As far as the topic of this thread is concerned, I believe everyone, including PC25, should be able to post their own articles. However, I also believe that like-minded users, like Spadecaller, have the right to organize and boycott threads that peddle falsehoods."
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/08/stories-...
YBDOGSCT : "You claim the 1st Amendment gives PC25 the freedom of speech to post his stories, but you conveniently forget that the 1st Amendment also gives SPADECALLER the right to peaceably assemble in order to ensure worthy stories reach Propeller's Front Page. It works both ways -- you can't use the 1st Amendment to defend PC25 without also vindicating SPADECALLER."
However, if PC25 Is going to open a thread for comments, he shouldn't expect all the comments to be positive. Likewise, if its within PC25's right to post any article he wants, then it's also within Spadecaller's right to organize "Friends" on his "Friends List" into exercising discretion when they come across one of PC25's articles.
Now, are YOU going to man up and stop avoiding the SUBSTANCE of my thread (the validity of the conclusions reached by Judicial Watch)? Don't forget to include direct links to your pieces of supporting documentation .
LOL.
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fiftynine10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Every time i think you have something worthwhile to say all i have to do is read farther down the thread..You always start falling back on the same old.. "Perhaps some anger management might be in order."..Stuff.
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You and your articles would be a lot more noteworthy if you would stop yourself before you fall back into this type of behavior. -
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Come on Spade you and I have stood side by side on a few issues, especially when it pertains to Israel, but you have to step back.
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You used the terms, (slither. Trashy,I don't think your elevator goes to the top floor; you might want to get someone to check that out for you.) and you were ‘angry’ enough to post this thread knowing what the outcome would be (a vicious fight between members). Then you say someone else needs anger management for calling you out and saying you're full out hot air?-
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Sabretooth10 months, 2 weeks ago
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So far i am not seeing this vicious fight between members that you speak of. I fully agree with Spade that maybe those of us that feel pc25 posts only lies should indeed just boycott his articles. I already have made it known that i refuse to read them anyways. I basically comment because i am by nature, combative and arguementative, in case nobody has noticed.
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RRconComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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wtagg10 months, 2 weeks ago
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wtagg10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I agree that comparing one blog entry/op-ed to another is really somewhat futile, though I don't see how the comparison helps hotair. You are stating that it is just as bad as the others and therefore the only conclusion I can reach is that you agree with the premise of the original poster.
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I do find it interesting that Huffington was founded by a life long republican that has become pretty dissatisfied with the direction of the party.-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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What I've seen is two threads today doing this sort of thing pointed at one member, with a few added to the list (since they were at it).
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These sorts of things can be done all you want but do it privately.
i still think the best solution is being able to block comments members that you don't want to read and has asked Marcus to reinstate that function.
The one thing that amuses me here is all the nasty lies promoted by the left in the attempt to destroy Palin and they all fell in line in those threads but now they can't handle seeing it done to their guy or gal.-
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wtagg10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Are you suggesting that the stories directed at Blag, Obama, etc... are lies?
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As far as I am concerned, pc and that crew can post all the stories they want, whether they are considered lies, faux, or not. They must be able to bear up to the logic behind the stories and be associated with the outcome. They must also be willing to be judged by the same yardstick they use. My view is that they are very good at rattling the sabre, not so good when it comes to the logic and the yardstick.-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Are you suggesting that the stories directed at Blag, Obama, etc... are lies?
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No not at all nor do I claim they are all true either.
My view is that they are very good at rattling the sabre, not so good when it comes to the logic and the yardstick.
The same logic holds true fro those on the left on this site I'd say.
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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wtagg,
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Good catch!
The first time I saw someone use "hotair.com" as a source of a story it was either pc25 or RedRiverJ. I thought the irony was apropos for the negative content and the person posting. What got me was no one even attempted to make the connection between the name "Hot Air' and the story line. Incredible! -
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hyperbola10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Well, almost all of PC25's stories get a thorough debunking here on propeller, so it is good to have them. Better to expose them to deserved death in public lthan to let them fester in dark corners.
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Of course, one almost has to keep a library of old "refutation" stories on hand since PC comes back to the same old, disproven lies over and over and over. -
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Klarissa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spade, is this one of the trashy stories???
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ABC News
Funds Tie Obama to Richardson Probe Figure
Embattled Executive David Rubin Gave Thousands to Campaign
By JUSTIN ROOD
Jan. 6, 2009—
President-elect Barack Obama took big money from a man at the center of a federal probe that has forced one of Obama's top Cabinet picks to withdraw.
Financial records show the Obama campaign got more than $30,000 from California financier David Rubin, the target of an investigation into donations and possible "pay-to-play" deals involving New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson, Obama's pick for commerce secretary.
Richardson removed himself from consideration for the post Sunday, saying the ongoing grand jury investigation threatened to hold up his confirmation. Richardson and Rubin have both denied any wrongdoing in the matter, which involved contributions and state business in 2003 and 2004.-
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mesodude10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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gwhiddon
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You obvioulsy are unable to read and hear...
Show me one place on this thread that I advocate cenosrhip. Tell me where in my commentary I suggest censorship of any kind.
Boycotting stores is not censorship. Or would you like to deny me the right of calling an assembly of members to excercise their free will?
I do not expect you are able to anwer these questions with any logic; so I am sure you will avoid attempting to answer them. I will not hold my breath.
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TimALoftis10 months, 2 weeks ago
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While I may not agree with all of PC25 submissions, he has a right to submit them. Each day we get fringe pieces from both sides of the political scale....some liberal and some conservative. A few I personally agree with, many I do not. Censorship is a slippery slope and one I care not to go down. Often I will disagree with a submission but I will prop it because I think the article has the ability to bring forward a good discussion here on Propeller.
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With that being said I should emphasize that I don't like seeing submissions were the title/header is drastically changed to fit ones political agenda. This happens far to often here in the community and it should stop. Both sides are guilty. -
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Let me be the first to admit that I have done my part in enabling these kinds of stories by adding several comments. I have not propped them for quite a long time - over a year or more, but I have been sucked into their "I'm-right-you-idiot- you-are-wrong free for alls." However, in evaluating my part and reviewing the results, I have concluded that is best for me to leave these threads. I guess some go in for the wet t-shirt mud wrestling ego-feeding brawls that these threads generate.
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I would like to believe we could do better as a community. Am I wrong?-
libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned12 Replies
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Candida10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller: "I would like to believe we could do better as a community. Am I wrong?"
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Our community is really a whole bunch of communities as evidenced by all the groups. I have no idea what the sports enthusiasts do, whether they bash each other or live in harmony, and I rarely read articles in Arts or Family. Are you including all those threads in our "community"? Or can those whose topics you are not interested in mud-wrestle as they please?
I'm not a great fan of pc25 and generally ignore all his submissions; I don't prop them and I don't comment on them, but if he ever decides to post something that catches my eye, I may do so in the future. He certainly has the right to post anything he likes, and those of us who are interested in it have the right to read it, prop it and comment on it, even if I judge it to be pure garbage.
I would also like to make a suggestion: review this story and all your comments for the emotionally laden words and expressions, such as, slither, trashy lowlife, crap, moron. Is this the level of discourse you expect of others?
If everybody just focused on the topics of the articles (whether they are gems or thrash) instead of each other, all the discussions would be much more civilized.-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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You are right Candida. I will try to abide by that suggestion. Sometimes, I fall short of the perfection others may seek for me. As always, it is a lot easier to point the finger at me and others than to look at yourself. But, there are certainly more rewards from looking at myself, and for that reason I consider some of the comments directed towards me -- even from those who never had a very high opinion of me anyway.
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However, I have not suggested that PC or anyone be censored or banned; I have recommended greater discretion though in what our community props.
To be fair, I have also posted stories that respectfully challenge our diverse community before and they have turned out to be constructive.
Nevertheless, despite the times when I have been completely polite and avoided the negatvie adjectives, I still received the same poor conduct from pretty much the same ones represented on this thread minus the ones that were eventually banned.
It has been my practice for the most part to just post my videos and to stay away from most of the poltical controversey, becaue the level of debate on Propeller has pllummeted as many of our most reputable commenters have decreased their participation or have left the site entirely. I think Mesodude described on this thread the kind of dialogue that dominates most of these controversial threads.
It is obvious why they leave and/or reduce their participation.
As for myself, when I begin to resort to the name calling as I have done here, it is obvious that the influence of Propeller is affecting me in a negative fashion and I need to alter my participation. I have seen too much racism, anti-Semitism, sexism, gay-bashing, anti-Muslim sentiment, and bigotry to enjoy Propeller as I had earlier on.
Calling upon the community to consider llifting the quality of debate is probably a foolish endeavor, but this was my intention - imperfect as it is.
Adverse selection has been happening here. I could fill a page of commenters who could intelliginetly debate and exchange ideas showing respect for others regardless of their political bias; but most of them are gone now. I probably should have done the same a while ago.
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corl6410 months, 2 weeks ago
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Then why would you try to call a boycott to stories that you can just as easily not read or participate in? You went beyond that and and actually tried to blackball someone, something you disagree with.
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In the description of your article, you claim that people "post bogus stories to provide cheap and worthless entertainment on Propeller". Who are you to judge that this is a bogus story? And I'm not saying that the article is true, that has yet to be seen. The big story yesterday was the connection between Obama and the "pay to play" deal. It's still in the beginning stages of an investigation, if it's that far at all. The entire scope of the investigation may take years. Yet, you have already qualified it to be bogus. I'm sure there were stories about Bush in the beginning days of his tenure that the left was salvating over, waiting for something to happen. Was there a call then to boycott any of those articles? I was not here then, so I may or may not be wrong on that, but in all fairness, can a series of stories be boycotted just because someone believes them to be untrue while others are waiting, watching for the truth to unfold. The point I'm trying to make is if calling a boycott to any article(s) on an open forum such as propeller is projecting the image that the site itself wants, or does it hurt it more then the infighting between members that the boycott is suppose to eliminate? -
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corl6410 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Let me be the first to admit that I have done my part in enabling these kinds of stories by adding several comments. I have not propped them for quite a long time - over a year or more, but I have been sucked into their "I'm-right-you-idiot- you-are-wrong free for alls." However, in evaluating my part and reviewing the results, I have concluded that is best for me to leave these threads. I guess some go in for the wet t-shirt mud wrestling ego-feeding brawls that these threads generate.
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I would like to believe we could do better as a community. Am I wrong?"
Yes, you are wrong. It would be nice to believe in such a thing, but just by posting this article you have become what you are fighting against. If you would have submitted something that you knew would not cause as hot a debate as this, and put your point of view across without calling out other members, either by name or thru recognition of particular stories, this post would not have ended up at the top of the list. I have seen you do this before, one time in particular when I first joined. You posted a blog about AlphaG; although you did not directly attack her in the blog. That made the top story too. Alpha ended up leaving on that one, along with a few others. This time it's pc's stories that you don't agree with. Now, you call on your minnions to boycott any article that is not to your liking. Does one person have that kind of power on propeller to blackball someone's submissions? Maybe your writings are the ones that should be boycotted, seeing that these are the articles that cause the most division between members. Sure, there is name calling, insults and even personal attacks taking place daily here, but when a long time member uses this media to single out a group as this posting does, it does nothing more than lower the value of the site itself.-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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corl
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You may want to blame me for your reaction to my story. That shows that you take no responsibility for your own conduct or for the individual responsibility that we each have in the manner in which we respond to stories, which we do not agree with.
Blaming me for the entire community and its reaction to an article is absurd and unfair. I am not that powerful.-
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corl6410 months, 2 weeks ago
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The same constitutional right that someone has to post a story they believe to be true.
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I think it's objectionable that you, of all people should post an article like this. It would be easy for me to say that your stories need to be boycotted. By your description, that is my constitutional right, but my idea is rather than fan the flames, try coming to a reasonable accord that would allow any article to get posted here without having to fear it being boycotted because it goes against someone elses ideals. As long as it fits into theTOU, there is no reason anybody should get blackballed because of their opinion. And you should know this because of your tenure and status on this site.-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Articles that PC has posted have even stated on the website source that the information is not substantiated. So he knew beforehand that he was, in fact, posting slurs against Obama that were nothing more than fabricated rumors.
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But, he has the right to post even crap like that. WE also have the right to boycott his articles. And, I have the right to defer to the community conscience, if there is one...
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Klarissa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spade, why did you put up the story???
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To get a reaction of divisiveness?
To set people against each other?
To satisfy your ego?
And how about that inflammatory title, a sure way to suggest some sort of censorship?????
Aha, I know, you want to be appointed as the person who decides what should or should not appear on propellor.-
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y_soitenly10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Klarissa,
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re: "Spade, why did you put up the story???
To get a reaction of divisiveness?
To set people against each other?
To satisfy your ego?
And how about that inflammatory title, a sure way to suggest some sort of censorship?????
Aha, I know, you want to be appointed as the person who decides what should or should not appear on propeller."
With that said... Spade's story definitely deserves to be put in the Cyberspace Wastebasket!
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Pecossam10 months, 2 weeks ago
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not2needy,
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You state, "I never click on pc25's submissions, read the stories or even act like i see them on Propeller."
Tell us, not2needy, is this an example of the much-touted "OPEN-MINDEDNESS" liberals (oops, sorry, PROGRESSIVES) are always crowing about?
What a hypocrite! -
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I never click on pc25's submissions, read the stories or even act like i see them on Propeller. After Obama won the presidential election, i knew this was the path that many of the neocons on Prop would take, and i made up my mind to NOT buy into it anymore. Many of them disappeared, Karlyc, Nixie, etc, but there's a few left who stay in attack mode.
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PLUS, pc25 uses hotair.com as his source for most of the articles he submits!! Who takes that seriously? Only that bunch, no one who wants real news.
Thanks SC.. I hope people pay attention.-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Thanks n2n for checking in on this one. I also hope people pay attention. I remember we had a similar conversation about this sort of thing a while back. There are those who care nothing about honest reporting and are willing to sacrifice their integrity to promote their agendas. And, there are many of us who care more about cheap entertainment than they do about trustworthy news.
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I hope our community can do better than this. I may be wrong... but at least I am being straightforward about what I believe. -
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Pecossam10 months, 2 weeks ago
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not2needy,
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Now you're being "JUDGEMENTAL", another liberal/progressive no-no, That's two liberal commandments you've broken in such a short span. But then again, that's the beauty of being a moral-relativist, you can change the rules as you go along. You merely reinforced my statement---What a hypocrite!
As to your comment, "You talk like a nut!", I can only ascribe such a sentiment to your not communicating with down-to-Earth, sane people. Therefore it would sound nutty to you. Only further proof that, "Liberalism is a mental disorder." -
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bruhaha10 months, 2 weeks ago
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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bruhaha,
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I've actually read some of the stories posted by the "Democratically challenged" and have come away with tears of laughter in my eyes at the content of those conversations.
I believe in freedom of speech and if people want to post articles that tell half-truths and outright lies then they should expect to be called on it. I think they damage their credibility more than sway the opinions of others. Like I said, "they are a good laugh."
The only ones buying into these stories are the same people that are waiting for their political "savoir" Sarah (I wish I had a brain) Palin. Which is more telling about the Republican Party's future and the people that support it than any smear campaign Democrats could come up with.-
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate,
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I do have the same standards for everyone, but I identify with one group more than the other. Therefore, it will always appear that I am biased.
I argue with my own family about these same issues and call them on the rhetoric they repeat from FOX News and other biased sources. I am an Independent, but definitely lean left. So, lets not pretend that I am going to be Jesus and call every argument down the middle.
I try to take each comment for its own content and try not to judge by who the poster is. But, sometimes the content of a comment is merely a ploy to bait others and must be seen for what it is. However, I only give out positives for comments I agree with and not negatives for those I disagree with. A habit I picked up from mntnman444.
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Klarissa,
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I didn't have to, but I did. It is really a response to those who keep calling Obama the "Messiah" and saying how liberals will be getting a wake-up call when he fails. I don't recall if I saw anyone say that in this thread, but it has been a continuing theme from the right.
As for Palin not being a part of this discussion...well, now she is. I didn't know that there were any limits on what we could bring into a conversation. I mean this article is about articles that belong in the cyberspace wastebasket and yet comments about Obama are in here too. For instance - "Obama was a mediocre student - but you all won't acknowledge it.." I don't know what that had to do with anything, but there it is. Bush was probably a mediocre student too, but I haven't seen his report card or Obama's. So, it's just a guess.-
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I know. Although, I've seen both sides use this random tactic as a red herring to deflect from the real issue(s).
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But, that is why I included an example of the said offense, by the accuser, back to the accuser, to show the irony of their accusation. (Almost got vertigo rereading that!)
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Pecossam10 months, 2 weeks ago
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bruhaha,
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"Know thy enemy." How is one to do that if one doesn't see what "the enemy" is posting? On the other hand, your attitude may be just what Obama's "Citizen Army" will be looking for when they begin burning books. Send Obama's Transition Team your resume at once! You've a HOT career ahead of you! My, but you do look thirsty. How about another big gulp of Lib-Ade?-
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alakazam10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I gotta say that there have been several people over the years who have struck me as the sort that were just interested in stirring up poodoo and I am under no obligation to read or prop a damned thing they post....none.
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Most people here really make an effort to be as congenial and reasonable as possible.
I try to be...but I freely admit that if I get irritated enough I will get into it with someone...but that's not the reason I am here. Some folks get off on strife and they do their very best to create it wherever they are and whatever they are doing...it's just the way they are.
I avoid threads like that...why waste time exchanging base insults with people you really have no interest in talking to and whose behavior and opinions you despise.
It's isn't like you are going to change the point of view of a person who isn't listening to you...is it? -
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Radiofreeeuropa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I never read anything from Rush Libaugh, Coulter, or anyone else I have observed to be intellectually dishonest, rabid, or generally unworthy of consideration due to mental deficiency.
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Not because they claim they speak for conservatives,-- Bill Buckley, Barry Goldwater even Gerry Ford had plenty to offer...these other clowns do not. They still would not if they were leftists.
I don't think it's really appropriate to single out a poster like this, but there are those who constantly post nothing but stuff that belongs not in a dumpster but in the sewer... so I don't bother with their submissions, I have no affection for the flame wars they try to create, and their "rants and slanders" are only believed by those who wish to believe such things to reinforce their delusions. Reasonably honest thinkers know president Obama didn't have gay sex with donkeys while blowing up the pentagon and shooting Santa in the eyeball while in terrorist school. (Ironically the same poster who says they believe that, denies the administration tortured, undermined "that GD peice o paper" the constitution, or did anything to precipitate the financial downfall we're suffering from....what a strange world. -
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Pecossam10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Sabretooth,
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Just where did I state I support or do not support the story in question? This is about pc25's right, AND EVERYBODY ELSE'S, to post what they deem newsworthy. I'll determine if an article is a lie or not by reading it and then comparing it with other sources. From what I gleaned from the article, it mentioned some letters from Obama to the Illinois Governor. And THAT is a FACT, like it or not. Judicial Watch was allowed to view these after citing the Freedom of Information Act. It may seem small potatoes, but so did something called "Watergate" when it first appeared, remember? Who is to say where all this will lead? Just where is the "lie" in this story?
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Will131310 months, 2 weeks ago
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geeeeeeeeez ... don't call them out.. or they might come back...
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hot air is very appropriately named.... maybe the joke is on people that believe the stuff they print.....
the name says it all.. want to lie to someone and have them believe it.. set the premise as an obvious lie.. tell them it's a lie.. and then SOME just won't believe the obvious .. IT IS A LIE...
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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This is the kind of stuff
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PC25 posts:
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/06/blagorahma-d... -
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Newperson10 months, 2 weeks ago
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CRYMTYPHON10 months, 2 weeks ago
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THAT IS NOT TRUE NEWPERSON WE DO NOT GET MAD EASILY!
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You calling me touchy ?
You want a piece of me, huh?
Huh?
Uhm, err, well, Actualy I drink a lot of coffee so I should be totaly excused.
It's a kind of disability.
And I wasn't shouting you were and you started it first.-
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JamesMarcus10 months, 2 weeks ago
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DeadXXXManXXXTalkin10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Great googly-moogly...
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It's likely most people heard it in Zappa's yellow snow song, but Zap probably heard it from Howlin' Wolf's recording of St. Louis Jimmy Oden's Going Down Slow (1962).
origin probably unknown, but the phrase seems to come from musicians
I don't think it appears in literature, I can't imagine it came from Chaucer or Shakes or Faulkner, tho I like the idea
Anthony Burgess...maybe
It is a barzoomy phrase, but I couldn't find much about it when I googly-moogled it
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stalemateComment removed: Retracted by user14 Replies
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ameliog10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Just say no? Whatever this member is submitting, people are responding to it. One of those stories might get read 10X more than the articles below it. Why people read those stories and comment on them rather than other articles is one of those things I don't understand, like why certain TV shows get watched so much when the content doesn't interest me. I'm sure many people think the same of my stuff, and some have taken the extra step of letting me know their displeasure with my selection(s) and me as a person. It's up to each person to decide what they want to feed their heads with.
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Some people like a good argument, either to start one or to join into one. I prefer neither, although I've read some excellent comments within the most outrageous story discussions. -
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crespi10 months, 2 weeks ago
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If I comment on a story I have a (misguided?) sense that I should prop it.
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Maybe that is not a correct procedure, as you pont out, Spadecaller.
I actually have been doing that less on stories I really feel are one-sided propaganda that are not serving justice or the truth.
PC25's "We hate Obama" stories should probably fall into that category since at least 90% of them are empty, hateful Neocon smears. I mean President-Elect Obama isn't even in office yet (and the Cons have falsely called him an Arab and a terrorist, and are blocking him and his family from staying in the Blair house, plus a dozen other unfair attacks.)
On the other hand, the results of the previous administration's blunders and intentional malfeasance are evident for all to see.-
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Maybe Propeller staff should give the neocons their own catagory, the "We Hate Obama, and Won't Give Him a Chance" catagory. It's evident that they won't give him a chance, that's the difference in us and them, we stood behind Bush after 9/11, and i only stopped supporting him after he attacked Iraq illegally. NOTHING will ever get them to support Obama, or any other Liberal president, they never have and never will.
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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stalemateComment removed: Retracted by user
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate, thanks to Bush the United States has been a laughing stock around the world for the last 8 years. Aren't you tired of being a laughing stock? Would you want Sarah Palin going all over the world with her winks, you betcha's and dog gone it's to further convince the rest of the world that we are all a bunch of blabbering idiots?? When is it ever enough for you all? Is anything ok as long as there's an (R) after the person's name? That's the way most of you come across! You have constantly demanded a free pass for Sarah, who couldn't even name a magazine she reads.. The question was too hard! Get a clue.
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crespi10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Slate-
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Be sure to check out Palin's latest interview making a fool of herself.
She says she would have been treated differently if she had run as a DEMOCRAT!
Well then she wouldn't have been a secessionist, an armageddonist, pushed "abstinence" with an out-of-wedlock teenage daughter, and wouldn't have crapped on community organizers.
Make sure to see it. Recommended viewing.
The crazy woman just won't quit...-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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You guys proved my point, it's always different if someone with a D does these things.
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We could talk for days about stupid things Biden (the vice president elect) has said.
But we only get silence from you guys on that issue. That's called hypocrisy.-
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cushi10 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Really? How many wheelchaired bound people has she asked to stand up?
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How many racists comments has she made?
The list goes on and on.
You just don't like Palin and like Biden, thus your biased view of which one you personally give a pass.-
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crespi10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I said see the interview for yourself.
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If you really don't think she is doing the Neocon thing of blaming here own handlers, Katie Couric, the McCain campaign, and everybody else, while NOT TAKING ONE TINY BIT OF PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY FOR HER OWN MISTAKES, the you can come back and call me names.
This is why the Cons lost. They are like the kid who got into the freshly baked cake. There are crumbs all over, the kid's face is covered in chocolate, and when Mom asks 'who ruined the cake?", the kid tries to claim "Not me."
That doesn't fly with grown men doing it. Cheney isn't cute enough...
See her interview for yourself.-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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LOL, you're a laugh a minute.. Turn the tables, never take responsibility republicons... When backed in the corner about one of your own, always deflect, never accept responsibility.
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You say incorrigible, i say your ilk is sickening!-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Let me say this, Plain was lied about from day one.
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About her having an affair
To being the one pregnant
To her NOT knowing Africa wasn't a 'country'
Oh my! She couldn't name what magazine she reads, like what, Vanity Fair or maybe a 'real' one like (cough) Time? There are enough places to get information a magazine is low on the list now that we live in the electronic age without going to the old dead horse that the print media has become. Get with the 21th century. ;-)
You don’t like her because she winks and smiles her smile when she says something that will get you going (as is very evident! Heck you guys even make fun of her accent? How utterly childish is that?
Besides people that do that aren’t even smart enough to realize that they sound as funny to those they think they are making fun of. That’s about as sharp as a pound of wet leather as they say in the ‘sticks’.
Or oh yeah she talked values and her All Too Human Daughter fell short of the mark. Niiiiiiiiice.
Now Biden asking the crippled to walk, made racist remarks about Indians and others, Gaff after gaff and you say he’s light years above.
My Ilk? MMMMMMMM ilk back-strap!!! Tasty stuff, hehehe.
I'm glad I'm sickening to you; I hope you have your vomit bucket handy sweetie, because I can outlast you.-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I mean really,,,,,,Africa being a Country? You believe a woman that is the gov of Alaska doesn't know this? It takes a certain type to want to believe such tripe.
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The funny part is, you have no problem believing such tripe but you can't comprehend the concept that someone else may believe some of the things said about Obama?
Being a Muslim (more plausible than Palin not knowing Africa isn't a country) 'though I personally don't believe the premise about Obama'.
Obama thinking we have 57 states (more plausible than Palin not knowing Africa isn't a country) 'though I personally don't believe the premise about Obama'.
Obama spending 20 years in a racist church (more plausible than Palin not knowing Africa isn't a country) This one is fairly factually backed up.
Obama isn’t a Citizen of the US (more plausible than Palin not knowing Africa isn't a country) 'though I personally don't believe the premise about Obama'.
Are you starting to see the difference?
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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First.. i would like to just give you a little lesson in geography! Africa isn't a COUNTRY, Africa is a CONTINENT!! I am very disappointed that you continually made that statement, i would have given you a lot more credit than that.
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Kenya is a COUNTRY, on the CONTINENT of Africa, just like Brazil is a COUNTRY on the CONTINENT of South America, etc!
Second.. Sarah Palin could have said she reads Guideposts, Ladies Home Journal, Better Homes and Gardens, Rachael Ray Today, TV Guide, or Readers Digest.. The possibilities are pretty endless, she is a woman and i don't think Katie would have found anything wrong with her reading a woman's magazine. There's no law that says she HAS to read Newsweek or Time, it was a simple question and Sarah looked like a deer caught in the headlights, but it's the media's fault for asking questions that were too hard for her.. PLEASE!!
Third.. Liberals on Propeller didn't make up the stories about Sarah being Trigg's grandmother rather than his mother, those stories came from sources off the internet, just the same as pc's does. Yet you defend pc's right to post slander on Obama, but attempt to shame us for doing the same thing!! Sarah Palin wasn't the only candidate in that election with a family, Barack Obama had a family too, but was his family given the respect that you demanded for Sarah? NO.. In fact everything in the world was said about Michelle Obama, and Barack was accused of having illicit sex with some deviant in the back seat of a limo while they did coke, but we're supposed to just forget all about that!
Forth.. Sarah Palin opened herself up for criticism when she said that birth control was murder, stating that abstinence was the only acceptable form of birth control, all the while knowing that her 17 year old daughter was pregnant. Then having a witch doctor come to her church to exorcise the evils that would hold her back in her political career.. Taking the city of Wasilla from a huge surplus to a HUGE deficit. Getting the same people she gave a multi million dollar contract to build the sports center in Wasilla, to "help" build her 500,000$$ home.
She's not the innocent little girl next door that was slanderized by the mean old Liberals. She is a woman driven by greed and power. She even got mad at McCain because she wasn't allowed to give a speech when they lost the election.. Even McCain says he won't support her in 2012..
Now you need to get over it and support the man that was elected, like we had to do when Bush stole the election in 2000 and 2004. I supported him until he started his illegal war, until nearly 12 billion dollars came up missing without so much as an investigation, until our country started crumbling down around us while he was saying our economy is fundamentally sound..
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Second.. Sarah Palin could have said she reads Guideposts, Ladies Home Journal, Better Homes and Gardens, Rachael Ray Today, TV Guide, or Readers Digest.. The possibilities are pretty endless, she is a woman and i don't think Katie would have found anything wrong with her reading a woman's magazine. There's no law that says she HAS to read Newsweek or Time, it was a simple question and Sarah looked like a deer caught in the headlights, but it's the media's fault for asking questions that were too hard for her.. PLEASE!!
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Do you really give a crap if Palin doesn't read magazines?
Third.. Liberals on Propeller didn't make up the stories about Sarah being Trigg's grandmother rather than his mother, those stories came from sources off the internet, just the same as pc's does. Yet you defend pc's right to post slander on Obama, but attempt to shame us for doing the same thing!! Sarah Palin wasn't the only candidate in that election with a family, Barack Obama had a family too, but was his family given the respect that you demanded for Sarah? NO.. In fact everything in the world was said about Michelle Obama, and Barack was accused of having illicit sex with some deviant in the back seat of a limo while they did coke, but we're supposed to just forget all about that!
Well that's true the source came from outside of Prop as do nearly all stories, but YOU and others came in and danced a jig and made your snarky remarks because she had dared to be a Republican that had the audacity to talk about values.
Forth.. Sarah Palin opened herself up for criticism when she said that birth control was murder, stating that abstinence was the only acceptable form of birth control, all the while knowing that her 17 year old daughter was pregnant. Then having a witch doctor come to her church to exorcise the evils that would hold her back in her political career.. Taking the city of Wasilla from a huge surplus to a HUGE deficit. Getting the same people she gave a multi million dollar contract to build the sports center in Wasilla, to "help" build her 500,000$$ home.
Well there ya go she has an opinion but her all too human daughter fell short of the mark so that give you cause to slander her for her opinion?
PSSSSSTTTTT I support Obama a couple of hundred times more than you even thought of supporting Bush or any Republican sweetheart.
Now, are you starting to see the difference?? I know for a fact you don't!
Shall we keep Dancing? It's Friday night and the night is young, who knows love may be in the air.-
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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NO, frankly i don't care if Sarah never reads so much as her local news paper.. I don't think it should have been too hard for her to answer such a simplistic question though, and if she can't answer something that simple, what would she have done had she been elected VP and had some of the REALLY hard questions thrown at her? Again, i'm tired of our leaders being a laughing stock, whether you all are or not.
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Yes, i made my snarky remarks about the possibility that Sarah may not have been Triggs mother based on a lot of facts.
1. She knowingly chose to have him in a hospital that wasn't equiped to care for the needs of a Downs baby, and drove an extra 45 minutes to get to that hospital, passing up other, better equiped hospitals.
2. There were pictures of her during her first pregnancy and she was as big as the house, and there were pictures of her during her pregnancy with Trigg and she was as flat as a board.. Being a woman, having had a child, i know the likelihood of that happening is slim to none.
3. In a family picture, Bristol actually looked more pregnant than Sarah did, and Bristol had dropped out of school five months prior to Trigg being born!! There was a lot of reasons to be skeptical, and had she been a Libbie, cons would have had a field day with all that information and would still be looking for things to post about it to this day.
Yes, her all too human daughter fell short, but sometimes you have to know how to pick your fights. In other words, don't let your alligator mouth overload your tweety bird ass! Birth control really wasn't an election issue, maybe abortion, but not birth control, she should have kept her mouth shut about it, and just gracefully announced her daughter's pregnancy rather than to act HOLIER THAN THOU, then have to slink around and act like it was so glorious that her 17 year old was pregnant, and that the babies daddy was dropping out of High School to go to work on the oil rigs.
PSSSST, you don't know whether i supported Bush or any republican president, you don't really know me. IN FACT, i have voted for republicans for president.. BUT i doubt that you have ever cast a Democratic vote in your life. My sister is a republican, she literally hated McCain, and she liked Obama, but she COULD NOT and WOULD NOT cross a party line, hence, she voted for McCain. It's very hard for a republican to cross a party line, and it's even harder for a republican to support a Democratic administration, plus there's the fact that you participate on the trash Obama threads, and he's not even in office yet! HAHAHAHAHA!! So much for your support!
Do you see the difference yet! NAH!! Ain't gonna happen is it?
So do you like to fast dance or slow dance??-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Yes, i made my snarky remarks about the possibility that Sarah may not have been Triggs mother based on a lot of facts.
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Facts?
We have a young lady at work that just had a baby and she still a size one. Fit people like this girl and Palin make great comebacks,,,,, we also see this is true when you look at many female stars.
Ive told my kids not to steal, yet if they did so I wouldn't be a failure and the truths of not stealing is still a valid point. Your wrong in the assumption that Palin is guilty of something for taking a stand on an issue she sees as the truth, regardless of what her kids do, That's not being Holier Than Though you only use that argument as a tool to attack,,,,, it's saying a truth even though being true to that is difficult for humans as you should understand.
Wrong again I have voted for Democrats and once was one
I love to dance,,,,,,, not the best fast dancer but I can do a passable 'white Boy' dance,,,,, but Slowwwwww dance! The ultimate cuddle!!! Yeah baby
So ya wanna or not?-
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Slate, don't be coy! Sarah Palin didn't have to lie and say she read something she didn't, all she had to do was say she hadn't read anything for a while.. Hells Bells man, she had just had a baby, anyone would have understood if she had said, "Hey, dog gone it, (wink) i just had a baby, i went straight back to work and haven't had time to even pick up a magazine with work and family"!
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Like i said, she's a woman, and people would have understood that. INSTEAD, she stood there like she had gone mute! What's so hard to understand about that, or will you NEVER understand how simple it would have been to give a simple answer to a really simple question??????
Hey don't kill the messenger, i am just telling you what i read, on several different websites about the Palin pregnancy. AND they were facts! AND as far as as snapping back, yes, many women do, i did, but you could tell i WAS PREGNANT before i had my son, you couldn't even tell that Palin was pregnant.. That was my point, not how fast she snapped back afterward. Celebs snap back, but you can tell that they WERE pregnant before they delivered, but why do i think you already knew what i was talking about and, yet again, diverted the topic to recovery and went completely past the pregnancy! lol.. Oh My!
What did i say Palin was guilty of? I said she had acted Holier Than Thou, which she did!!.. Her convictions are just that, hers, but they were not election issues.. Maybe if more people understood that, they would also understand WHY the McCain/Palin ticket lost so miserably.. I can't force the way i think or feel on anyone, and neither can she.. However, immediately she started in with the "birth control is murder" crap.. If i tried to shove that down your throat you would call me intolerant and judgemental, OH WAIT, you already have, LOLOLOL!!
Been a long time since i did a good cuddly slow dance slate.. Get comfy!-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I still don't see why anyone would make a big deal out of not reading magazines like whoa, how can we allow this woman to lead us why she doesn't even read magazines! She went mute because she knew it was posed as a gotcha question in the hope to have this reaction by folks like you.
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The way i see it is you guys are making a mountain out of a mole hill but hey I know how it is in politics, rail against the right but not even mention ole Joe;s stand up comment.
Once again, she winks and says dog gone,,,, wow there ya go,,, why she doesn't even say Yous Guys to women like we real English spealers do in the east.
Remember, everyone in the country talks differently and everyone thinks everybody else sounds funny.
Boston accents make me cringe,,, so do those around the great lakes but I don't go on a they can't even talk campaign
Holier Than Thou?
OMG Needy,,,,, have you seen the way the Obama Campaign was covered?
We had folks on the streets of Houston selling those velvet wall hangings on the day after the election. Pictures of Obama with Haloed head, the light of God shining down and doves flying aloft. Commemorative Plates and Coins. Large crowds singing OOOOOOBBBBBBAAAAAMMMMMAAAA Elohim. It was like a baptist revival they even said Obama would pay for their gas and homes.
Maybe she thinks birth control is murder, she has the right as a citizen to voice her opinion, even if she does so as a politician she stands the chance that others will not agree and not vote for her. There is no 'guilt' in that.
There are also those that think destroying a baby in the womb even up to the 11th hour isn't murder.and those that push for that to stand the chance that they will lose votes for their stance. The same holds true with gay marriage or any number of issues that any politician push because of personal beliefs or party platform.
PSSSSSTTTTT they lost by 7% that's not 'miserably' a sound defeat yes and I congratulate Obama but don't over blow the win into something it's not.
You're in good hands, I'm actually a fun guy to hang out with and I have the cuddle dance thing down to a science.
I'm very diverse and can talk about many topics, well just not discuss politics. -
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Abortion:
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I have never had one, don't think i could have ever had one, and wonder how women who had them live with it, but it's not my place to judge. Just like everything else, if abortion were made illegal, women who are hell bent on having one would find a way, i just hate to think that we would end up back in the dark ages, killing women and babies in back allies, because there are justifiable reasons that abortion should be made available.
Actually i enjoy hearing the different accents etc of people all over the country, except Ga.. I can't stand the Ga accent. I have family that lives there and talking to them grates on my nerves.
I haven't heard the things you refer to where Joe is concerned. He was one of Ronnie Reagan's right hand men, back in the day, i would have thought he would have been a welcome candidate for most conservatives.
Thanks for the dance, it was fun. Maybe in the future we will be more tolerant and less judgemental of each other.
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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First.. i would like to just give you a little lesson in geography! Africa isn't a COUNTRY, Africa is a CONTINENT!! I am very disappointed that you continually made that statement, i would have given you a lot more credit than that.
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Kenya is a COUNTRY, on the CONTINENT of Africa, just like Brazil is a COUNTRY on the CONTINENT of South America, etc!
Oh shadup needy,,,,,, you know I was talking about the claim that Palin was reported to think Africa was a country,,,,,, something that most 3rd graders and even you seem to know.
My statement was (mean really,,,,,,Africa being a Country? You believe a woman that is the gov of Alaska doesn't know this? It takes a certain type to want to believe such tripe.)
Gov of Alaska ring a bell? Funny that you wanted to be smug and 'skool lil ole Slate'yet you didn't even comprehend what I wrote. Classic I tells yas.
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mesodude10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Really? How many wheelchaired bound people has she asked to stand up?"
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--Why do you see this as something over which Biden should be pilloried? It's really very petty of you, slate. This is an error that you or I could easily make. We don't "accidentally" accuse others of being terrorists.-
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mesodude10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Really? How many wheelchaired bound people has she asked to stand up?"
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--Why do you see this as something over which Biden should be pilloried? It's really very petty of you, slate. This is an error that you or I could easily make. We don't "accidentally" accuse others of being terrorists. -
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate has spread this garbage from thread to thread, and to date has never provided a link or one shread of proof of anything he has said, just tried to make us feel bad or guilty for not wanting the likes of Sarah you betcha Palin as our VP. So what does slate do, he deflects, and tries to turn the tables.. NOTHING and i mean NOTHING Biden could have ever said or done would be as idiotic as her being angry over not being able to give a speech after McCain and she lost. Even McCain can't stand her, and said he wouldn't support her in 2012, but slate, true to form, continues to shove her down our throats, like that's going to convince us that she would have been a better VP than a man who has 30+ years experience.. What a joke.
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate, the difference here is... we can admit that Biden has said or done stupid things, although i don't think any of them were as blatantly ignorant as the "I can see Russia from my house", and "Living in Alaska makes the an expert in foreign affairs"... BUT you all can't even admit that Palin is mentally challenged, rather just continually claim that we ignore the stupid things that Biden has done... None of which you have given any example or proof of!
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alakazam10 months, 2 weeks ago
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There are a couple of actions I would like to see some people stand a fair trial for...You Betcha!
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A Knife in the Dark is not Justice.
I would like to hear the charges...the accused should have fair counsel in a fair trial...and if guilty...appropriately condemned.
No One and I mean No One should be held above the Law.
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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ameliog
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I think stories that attempt to assassinate the character of another person or of a public figure should be based on documented and factual material. Unsubstantiated stories that attack the reputation of another person should be dealt with responsibly.
Our country is in serious trouble; we need a nation that is willing to cooperate in an effort to to stop war, find alternative energy, improve education, and to fix an economy that is sinking further into what appears to be a depression. Thousands of Americans are losing their homes and thousands are facing protracted unemployment. Keeping food on the table and surviving this period in our history will not be easy for some.
In this sense, I think it is good to remind ourselves of what we are promoting to the front page. If it's listed as news or politics, is it something that deserves wide exposure? Sometimes, if we think about this, we may choose to prop different stories and to help them make the front page.
As n2n explained, she has decided not to participate on these kind of articles that trash our President elect by posting information that is completely false. However I welcome responsible criticism and I believe it is healthy for us as a nation to carefully scrutinize our government and its "trusted" servants.
If it were simply a matter of taste, I would agree with you; but there is an integral difference between offering one a piece of Hersey's chocolate or offering chocolate flavored X-Lax covered in a Hersey's wrapper and presenting it as candy.
A dare not describe the metaphorical results, although I recently read a post by a member named "BurningHotDiahrea."-
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ameliog10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I don't mind the discussion. It's still sort of a matter of preference. Some people like information, some like entertainment, some like facts or analysis, some some like smearmongering. Every 4 years in this country I get to witness numerous examples of people who really enjoy being lied to. How nice it would be if we all used the same criteria.
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It's been suggested many times that spending time on stories that are flimsy accusations at best is non-productive. One more time won't hurt.
This story will probably make the front page, and in all likelihood reach the top, so it should have visibility and be quite a debate that will exercise many keyboards over the next day...Katie, bar the door!
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cushi10 months, 2 weeks ago
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While I am opposed to censorship in general, for every thing there is a time and place, even censorship. Freedom is a wonderful thing, but it does not mean a free-for-all! For some people, anything goes!! There has to be some form policing for those who refuse to police themselves. The tricky, complicated part is knowing where to draw the line.
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GehlLady10 months, 2 weeks ago
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That line is only in some pretty extreme circumstances, yes? If pc25s submissions fell into that catagory, wouldn't the line have been drawn on his sources? Not him?
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Does Spade not have confidence and respect for his 'like minded' friends to decide on their own what articles they choose to comment on or prop, for their own reasons?
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BronxBomber10 months, 2 weeks ago
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People with any good common sense should avoid conservative right wing propaganda post's that reek of bovine excrement. I don't bother with PC25's post's because I always' consider the source. Btw SC, very eloquently said. (Nice voice too I might add.)
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wtagg10 months, 2 weeks ago
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One thing I would like to put forth here is that what pc and most of his friends champion has nothing to do with conservatism, as the word is defined. They have hijack the word to brand their particular style of politics.
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Conservatism is about common sense, citizens rights, conservation in all things, and a practical and pragmatic point of view. I have seen no evidence of conservatism in what they do in action.
If pc or anyone in general would like to debate me on this, feel free to take a shot.-
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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wtagg,
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Once again you have hit the nail on the head. These are not true conservatives posting their right-wing propaganda here. Most are of the NeoCon faction that has indeed hijacked the Republican Party. Unfortunately, I've seen very few true conservatives join these discussions to protest the extreme views of this aberration.-
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protoham10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The term neoconservative was originally used as a criticism against liberals who had "moved to the right".[2][3] Michael Harrington, a democratic socialist, coined the usage of neoconservative in a 1973.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism
Hmmmm, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Using this phrase I would have to assume you are a democratic socialist. You know what they say, if the shoe fits, wear it.-
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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protoham,
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"...a democratic socialist coined the usage of neoconservative...Using this phrase I would have to assume you are a democratic socialist."
Jessie Jackson coined the term African-American. Have you ever used that term protoham? Hmmmm...are you an African-American if you use that term?
Hmmmm, do you have any idea what you are talking about protoham? Obviously not, but you know what they say, if the shoe fits, wear it.-
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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protoham,
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"I don't recognize the term neoconservative, because to me it does not make sense."
I think we've found the root of the problem. In general, those that think as you do, don't recognize those things which don't make sense to you. This is a very essential point that cannot be overlooked. It is the best explanation of why mutual understandings cannot be found on certain issues.
The lack of recognition, whether intentional or by default, is a form of denial and allows for shirking responsibility for one's own actions. In other words, an intelligent being cannot be honest in self-examination or in nuances beyond the scope of what one's mind accepts.
Therefore, you do not recognize the terminology that categorizes you because you don't and won't recognize views foreign to your self-image or superego.
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willottica10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I'm of 2 minds, Spade.
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I don't like the fact that pc25 posts the things he does. There's desperation and deceit in it. I know that by responding to them, those same stories move up the ladder to the front page.
On the other hand, I think it's important to speak out against them. Shine the light on the darkness, and the darkness loses its strength. I don't want his posts sitting around without counter-opinions, or there are those who (not being presented by an opposing opinion) will be swayed by their propaganda.
On the third hand (which might be the second hand, if the first 2 are hour and minute :), I have never read one of pc25's stories BEFORE it reaches the front page, nor would I prop such a story. In fact, in the old days, I would comment on and vote down the story.
I think that the propeller rating system still leaves much to be desired. I think 'props' should carry far more weight than comments, since comments on a story can have little to do with the stories merit, and with the loss of the 'neg' on stories, there is no way to combat the hateful stories that are sometimes posted (short of commenting, which actually increases their rating!).-
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Ciera-Marie10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I agree with you Will. Since the new propeller has gotten rid of the sink button, and you can't retract a vote for a story I've propped some things I had no intention of propping.
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Here's the positive part of submitting stories. No matter who it is, no matter how many submissions you have submitted only one can be on the front page at a time. I like that. It gives more members a chance of getting on the Homepage, somedays less spam, and not as many attack or crap articles.
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greenmac10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I am all over the map when it comes to posting or propping stories. I usually know what to expect from different members. If it is trash I don't prop..but I may give my input. Even on some of the stories I learn a few things from other members comments or from my searching for material to counter what has been submitted.
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What I have learned is... there are members that post for controversy...there are those who wish to share...there are those that wish to debate. Then there are the spectators that enjoy the party and once in a while give a bit of input or support.
I understand what SC is saying .... lies sometime become truths in the minds of others .... that is unfortunate. It is up to us to determine what is false and squash it before it becomes a truth. I can't believe some of the submissions I have witnessed over the years... I don't believe those that put some of this up really believe them themselves...they are seeking the "numbers and the fight". We can fight or flee..it is up to each of us to decide.-
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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greenmac,
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Very well stated!
It would be boring if Propeller became a homogeneous community that only expressed a limited amount of views. Of course, I've seen some real trash posted and wondered how even one person had propped it! And, I'm not just talking about political trash talk articles.-
greenmacComment removed: Spam
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buckncindykill10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hey Spade. Weird idea, but I guess you need a "cause" to wrap yourself around. Find a negative story about Obama, and stamp it out. That way, you've got a liberal circle jerk here on Propeller. Fine, you want it to be another Huffington Post, have at it. You want dissenting voices gone or at least never allowed on the front page? Again, I guess most everyone on Propeller is liberal so to do that would engender a liberal love fest. Again, it's your prerogative. Hey, this anti-first ammendment posting of yours is front page. Congratulations!
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fiftynine10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I gave you a pos.,not because i agree with everything you said..but because without dissent there is nothing.I fight for dissent against bush so to not except it from the right would make me a hypocrite.That doesn't mean i have to agree.
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buckncindykill10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Exactly! Dissent we're told, is the engine of change, or at least the catalyst. That goes for everyone on the left and right. Spade whines when the stories dissent, drapes the dissent as lies, then stirs the leftists on the site to boycott PC's stories. Hey why stop there. Spade should go to his local library and burn all the books he thinks are telling lies.
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Sabretooth10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"You want dissenting voices gone or at least never allowed on the front page? "
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Just curious, do you have a comprehension problem? I am not exactly a rocket scientist and yet i had no problem understanding Spade. Do you make up your own version of what people say? Spade said nothing about dissenting voices, he was referring to outright lies and smear time after time? I am left to guess that you are a firm supporter of lying and smears, a republican perhaps? -
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buckncindykill10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Definitely not a rocket scientist. The truth is Sabre, there is so much lying and smearing going on, on both sides, that to claim a corner market on truth fettering is ridiculous. Even partial truths or elaborations tend to weed out stories that journalists refuse to cover. Just by your statement about me supporting lies and smears, which means I must be a republican, proves that you fit right in with what Spade is talking about. If Pc25 tells lies and posts them, then you are guilty as well, because you made gross assumptions about me. Talk about making up your own version of what people say. But hey, I'm certainly not calling for a boycott of you. With all your whining, you must be a democrat perhaps?
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guppythefishComment removed: Retracted by user2 Replies
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lovemylibs10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I think it is wrong to castigate a Propeller member when there has been at least one Scout who has posted stories before the election that were just as, if not more vile, in regards to Sarah Palin. Here's an example:
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2008/08/31/is-sarah...
Now this same Scout posted stories about Palin's son "possibly" being a drug addict and Sarah Palin "possibly" having had an affair. Baseless accusations.
On the story I linked, above there are some vile comments from people who have commented on Spadecaller's story here with a preacher's righteousness. Makes you start to think a little, huh?
I will give special Propeller props to jordan11, who defended Palin several times on that thread and called those rumors what they were.
Anyway, my advice is to not vote on or comment on the stories you don't like. It's not like those types of stories on Propeller are really going to change the mind of someone.-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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lovemylibs
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You may not recall this, but I denounced bogus stories that were directed against John McCain's wife, Cindy - - just as the kind of attacks that were being leveled against Obama's wife, many of them were beyond the scope of decency and honesty, and I chose not to support them too.
However, some of the stories about Palin's views on conservation and her qualifications to become the VP or the President were legitimate stories based on concerns voters should have in deciding which candidate to support.-
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lovemylibs10 months, 2 weeks ago
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That's all well and good Spadecaller, but the story I linked above is clearly not one of those stories. It's partisan conjecture that only a fool would believe or even be attracted to. The worst part is that it was a Scout who posted it. If you want to clean up Propeller, then why not start at the top and work your way down?
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Comment by mntnman444:
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"...it is hard sometimes to let pc's sleazy lies go unchallenged.
Another thing I've noticed is that with all the whining about Propeller leaning to the left...AOL leans to the right.I've noticed that only stories posted under "News" will make it on to AOL so pc posts all his fairy tales under "news".I've also noticed that a thread posted under "news" by others can make it to the top of the front page but will be skipped over by AOL in the "User Submitted News" catagory and threads by scum like pc and the other KarlyC clones always make it,even the most outragious lies like the completely fabricated "Shots Fired At McCains Bus"
AOL is obviously biased toward the right wing.Propeller only leans toward the majority opinion...the right wing nuts forget that they only make up 20% of the population,yet they expect Propeller to be 50/50."-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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lovemylibs
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lovemuylibs
Actually, I have openly objected to stories submitted by scouts in the past. Propeller managment knows quite well that I have not been agreement with everyting that is done here. Some may choose to condemn me for putting this story on the carpet, and pretend to use the excuse that I am advocating censorship, which I have not.
I have, however, called upon the community to think about taking responsible action when propping stories and promoting stories that are not news worthy and are, in fact, just lies and rumors. Is that not my right?-
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lovemylibs10 months, 2 weeks ago
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It's not my job to condemn anyone. I'll leave that for more righteous people than me.
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As far as you being within your rights to post this story, I wholeheartedly agree. I will not vote on it, though. Kind of like I think it's within PC25's rights to post the stories he does. I don't vote on most of his either.
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GehlLady10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spade,
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"and her qualifications "
We now know many of those 'stories' were lies and smears, and at least one hoax. Those articles exposing the lies have not hit the front pages of many publications, the lies sold more papers, and got more hits on the weg blogs.
Your outrage at poor journalism appears to be one sided. I have not followed all your comments on all articles, I base that statement on your comments on this thread, so I could be wrong, but the side-step you did in response to LMLibs looks one sided. -
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not2needy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Even though pc's articles are hardly even political, they are definitely NOT NEWS!
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We have to give the cons their props though, they immediately figure out how to play the system and do so with a vengence. In the past, other members have been banned for constantly and deliberately submitting articles under the wrong catagories in order to get them to the front page faster. Why is pc allowed to do it constantly IF Propeller is so left leaning? It almost appears that they WANT pc's slander to make it to the front page, and ultimately to AOL post haste-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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n2n
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AOL is not a liberal outfit; quite the contrary. And who do you think PC ran to for help because I dared challenge the nature of his submissions?
He ran to corporate AOL to silence me!
Pc, the one whining about censorship. Never once did I recommend that PC be censored or banned. I called upon the conscience of the community to consider what they were promoting. Amazing! That is the epioitme of hypocrisy.-
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Pecossam10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller,
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And never once did Hitler personally throw a misfortunate Jew into the gas chamber. He "called upon the conscience of the community."
If you truly were not targeting pc25, why mention him or his article(s)? "That is the epitome of hypocrisy." Your phrase is SO appropriate when applied to you.-
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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willottica10 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I think that would be an affirmative,,,,,, but it's not my post (Spade made that statement). Sorry for the confusion.
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Besides Spade, I thought the progressives were for affirmative action to protect minority views from the Majority.
BTW here’s the numbers of the popular vote last November.
Obama - 69,456,897 (CONGRATS ON THE WIN) ‘52.9%’
McCain - 59,934,786 ‘45.7%’
7.2% difference
Can’t we agree that it’s time to stop the 20% propaganda program about a non existent stance that 80% of America believes one way and minority 20% of Americans believe another way?-
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Candida10 months, 2 weeks ago
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26% of the voters (or by generalizing, population). 20% + 26% = 46%, which is close enough to 45.7%.
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Is 20% of the population right wing nuts? I don't know. Their undying support of everything the Bush administration did, invasion, torture, whatever, seems to indicate that. Some on the far right definitely are, but I don't know what percentage they represent. -
mntnman444Comment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned1 Reply
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Ratskii10 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate, I think you are pursuing a fallacy here. I don't remember the proper name for it but will call it the "confusing categories fallacy."
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Not everyone Who voted for McCain/Palin is a member of the far right. Many considered them to be the lessor evil or believed that McCain really was a maverick. Not everyone who voted for Obama is a member of the far left.
In my opinion the 7.2% difference came from the middle. -
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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lovemylibs,
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Exactly what did you find so vile about the article you linked? Was it the title? Personally, I didn't read, comment, or prop said article. But, I just want to know what was so offensive to you? And, could you point out a comment (not a sound bite, but a full comment) that shows this contempt of Palin? I'm just curious as I read the comments and didn't see anyone really buying into the premise of the article.
Also, what does it matter if someone defends or doesn't defend Palin or Obama or even their own comments? I've seen many times where someone has been challenged and merely ignores the antagonist whether the question is fair or spiteful. I've also seen some heated exchanges, but usually no one changes their stance for all of the posturing that occurs.
So, do tell how offensive this article and the ensuing comments were. Enlighten us.
BTW - There weren't that many comments en totale. Or, that many names I recognized from other political posts. My point being that this is a red herring and isn't really comparing apples to apples.-
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lovemylibs10 months, 2 weeks ago
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DarkWizard - The root story that I linked has been taken down by The Daily Kos. Do you wonder why? Read the comments on the thread. You can clearly see that the story was unfounded rumor. As far as a valid comparison - you are right, I find this story much more vile than the one's that have you guys up in arms about PC25. Thanks for pointing out that they are not "apples to apples".
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From the scout who posted the story:
"It's all circumstantial evidence, but when it all is combined, the fact she never looked pregnant, the massive trip from Texas to a small town where she had connections in Alaska to "Give birth", and her daughter having a world record case of Mono, that just happened to coincide with the pregnancy, is just a bit much to not make one think something could be up."
Another comment by a supposedly "TrueProgressive":
"Right on. Accepting the nomination for US VP puts the nominee and her entire family under a microscope and in a fishbowl. If SP wanted to spare her daughter grief, she should have refused McBush's offer."
Also from this "TrueProgressive":
"And that's the whole point and purpose of this inquiry, to see just how low and instinctual a liar Palin is. Just what we need now, a female monkey brained degenerate."
And from intrcon1:
"I understand the daughter is now expecting her second baby! Maybe she didn't like not getting credit for child number one?
It doesn't make Palin a bad mother, it makes her a liar, we don't need another liar in the Whitehouse. She needs to tell the truth about baby number one!"
And from N2N:
"She also supposedly deliberately went to a hospital that was ill equiped to care for her premature baby, for what purpose?? Was it because this was the only hospital in the area that agreed to keep their secret? This stinks to high heaven, and if it comes out that the hospital was part of a cover up for this family, they should be closed down."
So, there's a detailed report on my "red herring". How do you like YOUR red herring served, DarkWizard? Fried or baked?-
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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lovemylibs,
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Like I said, "I didn't read, comment, or prop said article. But, I just want to know what was so offensive to you?[...and], I read the comments and didn't see anyone really buying into the premise of the article."
I don't know the facts of this pregnancy ordeal, but I recall that leading up to the elections, reputation by association was being heavily pushed by the McCain campaign. While I don't agree with the bloggers' comments you pointed out, the example you used was about bad parenting and is hardly a fair comparison to accusing someone of direct criminal activity.
So, I will give the benefit of the doubt that this is an example of smearing someone's reputation by association with family. However, it is still as much a red herring as stories posted against Obama to denounce his character. Direct smears would be like attacking the character of Biden for his gaffs or Kucinich for seeing an U.F.O.
pc25's latest articles are a direct attack on Obama being linked to the criminal activities of someone he may have had minimal contact with. Contradictory proof to pc25's stories bears this out. Yet, pc25 posts these articles to appease those who wish to see Obama fail. Much different than associating Palin with bad parenting. So, apples to apples would have been "Troopergate" and its ensuing comments.
So, you claim your prize in haste as four-fifths of you reply was copy and paste (hey! that rhymes). I appreciate your attempt to show me what you thought were "vile" comments, but in comparison to which comments made by the group YOU identify with? This will be the true proof of the pudding and show whether you can be honest or are blinded by affiliate loyalties.
Anyway, let me know if you need anymore help making valid comparisons.
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k9kssr10 months, 2 weeks ago
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THIS story won't get my prop.....smacks of censorship. Actually, I'm hoping I get my own "story".....if SC really doesn't like you, he'll write one about you. First, Hyperbola and now PC25.
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Spade, calling it like it is. You are a bully.-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I am only one member with one vote. You can call me names all you want; but deferring to the conscience of the community and its members is not bullying. We are asking that stories posted that slur a person's character be based on fact and not on lies. Is that too difficult to understand?
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willottica10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I'll go one further and ask that the stories be based on facts and not conjecture.
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Your story posted about hyperbola was full of conjecture about his character and his hatred, which wasn't supported by any facts that you could produce.
It has long been said, and I believe, that: It's not a lie if you believe it. However, that doesn't mean it's conjecture unsupported by fact. Which is why your plea for stories based on facts is most heartily seconded, but why I can't support the "not on lies" part of it. Lies are subjective.
Lies are not the same as untruths, or else 90% of the 'Religion' articles on here would be based on lies. I fully support the 'Religion' articles, so long as they do not claim to be fact-based, and do not attack anyone's character. I have no idea which ones are 'Truth' and which are 'Untruth', though I have opinions and faith which might make me lean one way or the other. As far as PCs stories go, they're mostly not based on lies, but rather on gross-misinterpretations of un-stories.-
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller and willottica,
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You both bring up valid points, but I must agree that most of the stories that are accused of "lies" are in fact subjective. This is because the perspective of the person reading it is geared toward wanting the story to be either the truth or a lie depending upon contextual slant. The argument becomes circular as word games ensue to support said perspective. Therefore, lies can indeed be subjective. However, even in the face of glaring facts, some will call them lies. Of course, this is a different matter.
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Wolfie200710 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spade
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Once again you've shown us that you sophistry knows no bounds. You self aggrandizing for you little cabal of groupies is nothing but posturing in an attempt to make you feel self important. To my knowledge nobody has put you in charge of the "conscience of the community" and you are a bully. You say you don't like stories that slur a person's character but you're such a hypocrite that you take it upon yourself to attack someones character because of your dislike. You should have been born in the USSR they had places for people like you in the KGB.
If you don't like the stories posted about Obama now then you need to leave the kitchen before the heat gets too bad because they stories are only going to get worse. That's a guarantee! If you don't like a story that is posted then you should attack the article but to attack a member is the sign of a small minded person but of course, that is what you are and a real sorry excuse for a human being.-
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Progressive (2 hours, 51 minutes ago)
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Interesting observation. Obviously, PC25 has figured out how to scam the AOL/Propeller system to his/her advantage.
"I appreciate that some Propeller members still feel compelled to call the neocons on their BS, but more often than not it's casting pearls before swine. For the most part, I have stopped reading, propping or commenting on redundant fabrications from wingnut sources posted by hatemongers.
Time to bring back the sink button!" -
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Hhussk10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller, you are basically a loser. This is the second thread today bent on attacking PC25. What's worse, you are using your own article...as if it is a real piece of journalism...to mount your attack.
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That's lame. But I guess, that's liberal. If you can't find the story, make one up.
I'm embaressed for you.-
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UnusualSuspect10 months, 2 weeks ago
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What one learns to do here on Propellor, as in life, is to avoid certain people who tend to be name-callers, aggressive, and have possibly violent attitudes towards others. Propellor certainly has its members who fall into those areas.
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So when I see an article posted, I first look at who posted it.
Having been here for over 2 years now, one gets to know which members post articles that are really worthy of reading and aren't from a scandal sheet posing as news or interesting, which member calls others names, acts like a child by telling another member he hopes he chokes on food, and has displayed a tendency towards possible violence with their screen name or avatar (like kicking people).
Those people you take with a grain of salt...there's enough of them in real time walking on the street...why interact with them here, online, when you don't have to?
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tadair91910 months, 2 weeks ago
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here's another thread that deserves the cyber waste bucket:
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/08/stories-... -
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Spadecaller10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"Spadecaller, you are basically a loser."
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Hhussk is a typical neocon thug:
These are the kind of intelligent comments that PC's supporters like to make. Personal insults and name-calling are their weapons of choice. They hate all liberals and all people they think are liberals.-
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BronxBomber10 months, 2 weeks ago
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What? So now in order to post a story, a member has to present his professional credentials now? Copy and paste his/her resume' in the first comment in a thread?
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Funny how you all in the right are moaning and groaning about SC's alleged suppressing of PC25's freedom of speech, and then turn around, and deny Spadecaller his inalienable rights to the same.-
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