Bush defends interrogation record - Yahoo! News »
Posted By bizexpert 5 months, 4 weeks ago in Political News
President Bush on Sunday defended controversial interrogation measures established by his administration, arguing that techniques like water-boarding helped save American lives.
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birdsabound5 months, 4 weeks ago
Clearly, this bird has long been, and remains, an ideologue, operating off in his own little FANTASY domain. He gives every indication of actually BELIEVING a lot of the MORAL RELATIVISM that he spouts, and has foisted off on others (especially all of those military people who, incredibly, have evidently actually bought into his orchestrated GROUPTHINK).
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Sorry, people but there is SIMPLY NO WAY you can get away with passing off murder, butchery, and torture as some kind of "virtue". The guy should be ASHAMED of himself, and WE all should be ashamed of HIM --- and the Iraqi journalist who threw shoes at his head should be applauded.-
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Goppy5 months, 4 weeks ago
All who claim there is a Liberal Bias in Media should be embarrassed.
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Media has been inundating the nation with the George W. Bush, Sarah Palin, and Dick Cheney Media blitz ... promoting their "It's About Relativism, Stupid!" Tour.
Dick Cheney admits he had a hand in changing the American Moral Landscape by authorizing Torture.
Sarah Palin's leg of the Tour is an all out offensive attack on "Liberal Media". Funny how she's all over Media ... claiming Media is unfair to her.
And George W. Bush ... the Worst President in History ... a President who ... even hardline Republicans are now disowning ... ludicrously calling him a Liberal ... his leg of this media blitz is one unending effort of pretzel logic to support ... as FrauBlucher says below ... the indefensible.
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hyperbola5 months, 4 weeks ago
Bush and his NeoCons simply show how much American democracy has degenerated.
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Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime
As a JAG in the Nevada National Guard, I used to lecture the soldiers of the 72nd Military Police Company every year about their legal obligations when they guarded prisoners. I'd always conclude by saying, "I know you won't remember everything I told you today, but just remember what your mom told you: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." That's a pretty good standard for life and for the law, and even though I left the unit in 1995, I like to think that some of my teaching had carried over when the 72nd refused to participate in misconduct at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison. ...
The United States knows quite a bit about waterboarding. The U.S. government -- whether acting alone before domestic courts, commissions and courts-martial or as part of the world community -- has not only condemned the use of water torture but has severely punished those who applied it.
After World War II, we convicted several Japanese soldiers for waterboarding American and Allied prisoners of war....
The United States (like Britain, Australia and other Allies) pursued lower-ranking Japanese war criminals in trials before their own tribunals....
More recently, waterboarding cases have appeared in U.S. district courts. One was a civil action brought by several Filipinos seeking damages against the estate of former Philippine president Ferdinand Marcos....
In 1983, federal prosecutors charged a Texas sheriff and three of his deputies with violating prisoners' civil rights by forcing confessions. The complaint alleged that the officers conspired to "subject prisoners to a suffocating water torture ordeal in order to coerce confessions. This generally included the placement of a towel over the nose and mouth of the prisoner and the pouring of water in the towel until the prisoner began to move, jerk, or otherwise indicate that he was suffocating and/or drowning."
The four defendants were convicted, and the sheriff was sentenced to 10 years in prison.
We know that U.S. military tribunals and U.S. judges have examined certain types of water-based interrogation and found that they constituted torture. That's a lesson worth learning. The study of law is, after all, largely the study of history. The law of war is no different. This history should be of value to those who seek to understand what the law is -- as well as what it ought to be.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...-
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hyperbola5 months, 4 weeks ago
Now it is time to try them for war crimes.
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Senate torture report confirms Bush, top officials guilty of war crimes
A report issued Thursday by the Senate Armed Services Committee has provided official and bipartisan confirmation that the infamous acts of torture carried out by US personnel at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo were planned, ordered and orchestrated by the highest-ranking officials in the US government. Based on the Senate's own conclusions, those named in the document, including President George W. Bush, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, are guilty of war crimes.
The key findings of the Senate panel's report on "Treatment of Detainees in US Custody" [PDF] are summed up in the introduction to its 29-page executive summary:
"The abuse of detainees in US custody cannot simply be attributed to the actions of ‘a few bad apples' acting on their own. The fact is that senior US officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality, and authorized their use against detainees."
The product of multiple hearings and interviews carried out by committee staff members with more than 70 people over the course of 18 months, the final report was approved late last month. While the panel has not identified the 17 (out of 25) members present for the vote, given the committee's composition, at least four Republicans voted to endorse the findings, while none sought to register opposition.....
...The report goes on to establish that these torture methods were discussed and approved by Bush's cabinet members and other senior officials during White House meetings of the National Security Council's "principals" in the spring of 2002. Leading these sessions was Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, then Bush's national security adviser. Also participating were Rumsfeld, CIA Director George Tenet, Attorney General John Ashcroft, and others. -
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Hhussk5 months, 4 weeks ago
I disagree. I believe society, as a whole, with many Democrats and Republicans joined together, is moving towards a socialistic nation. For example, Social Security is social program. It takes from one group, gives to the another.
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The country, as a whole, has been moving towards a left-leaning, socialist ideology of believing that government should provide health care and should bail you out of your bad financial dealings.
In truth, a democratic republic should have little or no business in your life, other than defending the borders. Your money is yours to win or lose. Regulations should stay low.
But, as I've stated, we are already very socialistic and we will move towards more socialism as time goes by. I believe this is the nature of governments, to slowly change the mentality of its people and to eventually take away their rights. -
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GLee5 months, 4 weeks ago
WHAT A HOOT!!
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Anyhows........ I kinda like President Bush and the strength he has shown. Not always right, not always wrong, but not 'SKEEERED' to make the tough decisions. A man amoungst youngsters.
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FrauBlucherComment removed: User banned.10 Replies
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djn3nunez35 months, 4 weeks ago
Here again the so called liberal media is sweeping up(advancing our mass social cognative dissonance). By failing to address the other aspects of the Bush Administrations torture policies, such as Abu Ghraib and other detention facilities, and focusing on the alleged mastermind of 9-11(someone who the West has little sympathy for).
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crespi5 months, 4 weeks ago
I think there is room to examine all of it.
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That's what we have computers and investigative journalists for...
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Tcaros5 months, 4 weeks ago
Bush is a criminal.
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His family has ties in the intelligence community.
The 9/11 attacks were masterminded by Bin Laden. Where's Bin Laden? Was he a double-agent?
How else could they try to legalize domestic surveillance?
How else coud they rob the treasury with the war in Iraq?
KBR, Halliburton, Blackwater.
The new administration needs to convict them. That is the most important problem.-
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Hhussk5 months, 4 weeks ago
Bush is currently not a criminal. He has not been charged with a crime. And I'm in curious, specifically, what crime he would be charged with when every decision he has made has been conducted under the scrutiny of his own legal advisors.
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President-elect Obama has also stated unofficially that he is not seeking to investigate President Bush.
The most important charge was that President Bush make an illegal case for war. That is incorrect. Congress was given the exact intelligence President Bush was. In their Democratic Primaries, many of the candidates admitted they did not read the intelligence.
That would mean, in the case for charging illegal conduct in the Iraq War, your charges would not only be against the President, but against Congress.
And yes, there will always be conspiracy theorists who look for a crime. -
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Goppy5 months, 4 weeks ago
You are an effective apologist for Bush. You speak well ... you are not too prone to hyperbole.
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But I'm afraid this masks a naivete of International Law.
There is growing appreciation of international law throughout the world. Perhaps you've heard of the Geneva Convention. The Geneva Convention is the framework ... or foundation, the beginning point of this growing international contract.
It was this framework that was relied upon to bring Augusto Pinochet to trial ... not in his native Chile ... but rather when he visited Spain.
Just so, there are many nations who are now debating if this could happen to various people associated with the Bush Administration.
So for instance, if George W went to Italy ... it's conceivable that they could arrest him and charge him with violations of human rights ... specifically ... torture.
Now, I sincerely doubt this would happen ... he's too much of a national symbol. Just as I doubt that Mainstream Media would ever permit GW being held accountable in THIS nation.
But it IS conceivable that other people within the Bush administration could be apprehended while traveling abroad.
Donald Rumsfeld ... his lawyer, Jim Haynes ... and possibly, the Guantanamo, Diane Beaver ... a person who is being held up as a scapegoat for those within the administration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_E._Beaver
The fact you must at some point recognize is that the Bush Administration is a rogue bunch of Neo-Conservative ideologues .. a rogue bunch who turned their back on traditional American Values.
America spent the better part of the past century promoting these values ... values such as fair treatment of prisoners ... NO to torture. Over time ... other nations have embraced these values.
Now .. they look at America renouncing that Moral High Ground .. to become ... essentially ... Morally Vacant.
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mmrhe5 months, 4 weeks ago
Bush's last press conference
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Oh my God...How did we let this bumbling idiot into the White House!
He's nothing but a backslapping, silver-spoon-in-mouth frat boy. -
FrauBlucherComment removed: User banned.8 Replies
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Goppy5 months, 4 weeks ago
There's a reason America has come to know y'all as EXTREMISTS.
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You see the world as extremes.
Republicanism is ALWAYS right.
Liberals are ALWAYS Socialists.
Government is ALWAYS wrong.
Business is ALWAYS right.
The only problem with this mindset is that ...
Truth ALWAYS get screwed.
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BravoSierra5 months, 4 weeks ago
The cool thing about reverse-logic, negative-unprovable hypotheses, magical thinking and superstitious thinking is that we can all take credit for all the bad things that don't happen. Obsessive-compulsives believe they prevented a global catastrophe each time they avoided stepping on a crack. I cross myself daily to ensure an asteroid doesn't destroy the earth, I rattle prayer drums to prevent the moon from disintegrating, I scratch my ass to prevent famine...
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No one can ever prove that my scratching my ass didn't have a 'butterfly effect' and save mankind from extinction....:) And one day, history will come to revere me for the dilligence I gave to scratching my ass.
Now, I know some evangelicals will say it was their prayer, and Bush will say it was the torture he so bravely authorized, and I know a nun or two who will say it was their daily prayer, and there are some skin heads who will say it was keeping to the true white supremacy that made this nation great...but I know that when you are all in heaven and see me sitting, not at the right hand of God, but close to it...you'll realize it was my crossing myself, not stepping on cracks, knocking on wood and scratching my ass that did the trick.-
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crespi5 months, 4 weeks ago
Sorry to get ahead of your well thought out "prove a negative explanation," BravoSierra.
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: User banned.2 Replies
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SandmonsterComment removed: User banned.9 Replies
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mesodude5 months, 4 weeks ago
Except he bankrupted our country morally and financially. Lots of people died because he gutted certain government agencies and bloated others and who knows how many people will die sooner or have their quality of life destroyed because his incompetence led to their financial ruin? Exactly... Keeping us "safe" is great as long as *you* get to define what that means.
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SandmonsterComment removed: User banned.17 Replies
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Goppy5 months, 4 weeks ago
Did you see Jon Stewart interview Dana Perrino?
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Can you imagine Bill O'Reilly interviewing a Liberal with the same good nature?
No ... of course not.
When your mind is a cesspool of cynicism and pandering to the audience ... all you get is gratuitous insults.
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tchef5 months, 4 weeks ago
We are going to be paying for the actions of this administration for many years to come. And I'm not just talking about our deficit.
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Republicrat1844Comment removed: User banned.1 Reply
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
"Employing interrogation methods that violate the Field Manual is not only
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unnecessary, but poses enormous risks. These methods generate information of
dubious value, reliance upon which can lead to disastrous consequences.
Moreover, revelation of the use of such techniques does immense damage to the
reputation and moral authority of the United States essential to our efforts
to combat terrorism."
General Joseph Hoar, USMC (Ret.)
General Paul J. Kern, USA (Ret.)
General Charles Krulak, USMC (Ret.)
General David M. Maddox, USA (Ret.)
General Barry McCaffrey, USA (Ret.)
General Merrill A. McPeak, USAF (Ret.)
Admiral Stansfield Turner, USN (Ret.)
General William G. T. Tuttle Jr., USA (Ret.)
General Charles E. Wilhelm, USMC (Ret.)
General Anthony Zinni (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Robert G. Gard Jr., USA (Ret.)
Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn, USN (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Henry J. Hatch, USA (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Claudia J. Kennedy, USA (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Donald L. Kerrick, USA (Ret.)
Vice Admiral Albert H. Konetzni Jr., USN (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Charles Otstott, USA (Ret.)
Lieutenant General Harry E. Soyster, USA (Ret.)
Major General Leo M. Childs, USA (Ret.)
Major General James P. Collins, USA (Ret.)
Major General Paul Eaton, USA (Ret.)
Major General Eugene Fox, USA (Ret.)
Major General John L. Fugh, USA (Ret.)
Rear Admiral Don Guter, USN (Ret.)
Major General Fred E. Haynes, USMC (Ret.)
Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, USN (Ret.)
Major General Melvyn Montano, ANG (Ret.)
Major General Eric Olson, USA (Ret.)
Major General Thomas J. Romig, USA (Ret.)
Major General Gerald T. Sajer, USA (Ret.)
Major General Antonio 'Tony' M. Taguba, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Dorian Anderson, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General David M. Brahms, USMC (Ret.)
Brigadier General Clarke M. Brintnall, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General James P. Cullen, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Evelyn P. Foote, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Gerald E. Galloway, USA (Ret)
Brigadier General David R. Irvine, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General John H. Johns, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Richard O'Meara, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Murray G. Sagsveen, USA (Ret.)
Brigadier General Anthony Verrengia, USAF (Ret.)
Brigadier General Stephen N. Xenakis, USA (Ret.)-
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cushi5 months, 4 weeks ago
Somebody needs to send this information to Joe Scarborough! I am sick to death of hearing him defend what Bush and Cheney have done and his brow beating his co-host and guests who disagree with him.
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He needs to go to Fox News where his bullying big brother, Bill O'Reilly hangs out.
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
"No good intelligence is going to come from abusive practice. I think history tells us that. I think the empirical evidence of the last five years, hard years,tell us that. And moreover, any piece of intelligence which is obtained under duress . . . through the use of abusive techniques would be of questionable credibility."
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The Army Deputy Chief of Staff for Intelligence
LTG John Kimmons-
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
"And additionally, it would do more harm than good when it inevitably became known that abusive practices were used. And we can't afford to go there."
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Poulenc5 months, 4 weeks ago
The gorge rises--to put it mildly. Bush's moral obtuseness, let's call it to be extremely generous, is never-ending. Trying to rescue that which cannot be saved!
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Fortunately, we'll be rid of him (though, tragically, not the effects of his presidency) soon.
What a sad, infuriating, benighted, arrogantly self-satisfied bag of...let's-hope-forevermore defeated ambition!
PS, I just heard on the radio that, when asked today what regrets he had about the way his administration conducted itself, Bush said that he thought the "Mission Accomplished" banner was a misstep. Full stop.
Not that a pol would wring is hands in public over past errors--or even mention them--but... -
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
Abuse of detained persons is immoral, illegal, and unprofessional. Those who engage in cruel or inhuman treatment of prisoners betray the standards of the profession of arms and U.S. laws. They are subject to punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The Geneva Conventions, as well as the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, agree on unacceptable interrogating techniques. Torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment is never a morally permissible option, even if lives depend on gaining information. No exceptional circumstances permit the use of torture and other cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment.
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DAVID H. PETRAEUS -
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flyonthewallzz5 months, 4 weeks ago
http://www.aspenpost.net/2008/12/02/an-interrogato...
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"I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It's no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me -- unless you don't count American soldiers as Americans."
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