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Posted by: fiftynine 10 months, 4 weeks ago
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fiftynine10 months, 4 weeks ago
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His "screw ups" were from humility,not arrogance like the departing sob...big difference.
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We didn't set out to elect a saint,we elected a man..something that has been sorely missed for eight long years..did he make some mistakes..yes..and as he said there will be plenty more.Any man will make mistakes when put in the position that he is now in.That should be expected.The difference will be that he will listen to people that tell him that he is making him and unlike the arrogant sob that is leaving,he will no doubt try to change them...
Goodbye bushboy,darth cheney and the rest of the rove gang...if only it had come sooner !!!-
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Lincoln8510 months, 4 weeks ago
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59, I agree, he will make mistakes especially with the position he is put in now. Like Bush was after Clinton left, aka, Osama still walking the earth a free man.
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I am sure Obama's future failures for the next 4 years will be blamed on Bush. How intellectually intelligent will those arguments be? Can't wait for Gitmo prisoners to be released. That will be a day of celebration....not.-
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alakazam10 months, 4 weeks ago
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tanglang10 months, 4 weeks ago
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fiftynine10 months, 4 weeks ago
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tanglang10 months, 4 weeks ago
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fiftynine10 months, 4 weeks ago
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crespi10 months, 4 weeks ago
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slate10 months, 4 weeks ago
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And Clinton did what? Let him go,,,,,,,
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The question here is,,,,,,, would 9/11 have happened if OBL had been killed by Clinton? No way to know, but maybe it could have reduced that chance.
No 9/11 would mean no Afghan or Iraq wars, less deficit, no added time being screened at airports and the like,,,,, no Home Land Security, Gitmo wire tapping ,,TORTURE, Hussein would still be alive the list goes on,,,,
If you say no, then it won't matter one way or another if OBL is killed now would it?
You do need to honestly look at how it played out and lay some of the blame of 9/11 at Clinton's feet if you want to be honest in the debate/-
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crespi10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Problem is, slate, Bush made it a BIG DEAL that he would capture Bin Laden, Appearing on TV more than once, defiantly PROCLAIMING he WOULD CAPTURE him.
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He made a huge PUBLIC DELARATION over it and THEN failed.
It just made him look stupider in the eyes of the public. -
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fiftynine10 months, 4 weeks ago
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"lay some of the blame of 9/11 at Clinton's feet if you want to be honest in the debate/".....You see slate i don't buy that argument.Every time Clinton tried to do anything concerning OBL,including trying to take him out with our missiles,the right would get all huff7y and start screaming wag the dog...you know that is true...It was never about national security with the right,it was alaways about how Clinton was trying to divert attention away from his personal problems.
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Was there any support in the reublican congress when he tried to go after OBL...no.Was there any concern from the republican congress over national security..no.
When Clinton and his team tried to get bushboy to take seriously the threat of OBL and islamic radicals did he listen..no..he went on vacation.Did he listen to the FBI,the CIA,OR ANY OF THE OTHER INTEL ORGANIZATIONS IN THE WORLD WHEN TOLD OF THE THREAT ..no,no,no..i lay the blame squally at the feet of the person i hold responsible..bush.
I still have questions over why he was meeting with the saudis while on vacation prior to 9/11 and why he was meeting with them again right after 9/11...to many questions left even though he is gone.-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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?????????? Clinton didn't call and ask the right for permission to take the shot, he decided not to take the shot.
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Clinton to his 'credit' did bomb Iraq's WMD infrastucture and then gave a speech of why he did so and why he thought Iraq had WMDs. You've either didn't know this ordecided to overlook it.
Just because YOU PERSONALLY hold Bush responsible in your own mind doesn't mean much and it simply clear that you can't get beyond your abject partisan hatred of Bush.-
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Slate,you and i both lived in those times.You know that the right was hounding him unmercifully about wag the dog and you also know that their priority was not national security.You also know of the briefings and threat analysis that was given to bush,which he discarded.
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My hatred of bush is founded entirely in his actions,his policys,and in some cases such as 9/11 his in action.
If i met him in a bar,who knows..he'd probably be the goofy loudmouth making passes at all the women,and be tolerable at that level..but as the president i think his record speaks for itself.-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Yeah I've been around much longer than that.
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I've said many times that Republicans opened the can of nasty worms of personal destruction we have now between the parties because of going after Clinton on his sexual things. THey should have found better ways to spend their time......
I've also laughed when I found out Newt and all the others were having a lil 'play' time of their own when being so indignant about it all. They all deserved to lose the power they did and should have left ‘personal’ stuff alone.
I think the Wag the Dawg thing was more with the timing of the missile attacks, since it was on the eve of a very important event concerning those investigations, not the validity of whether they thought Clinton indeed thought Iraq had WMDs. Look up the 1998 speech for yourself and read Clinton’s own words.
But as far as Bush blowing off the ‘memo’? I think that’s over blown and I think the ‘memo’ was only a general memo that OBL plans to attack. I mean what do you do with that, other than be more watchful?
This is a very large target rich country and the ‘attack’ could have come from many directions, in many locations and by many means other than airlines (which have never been done).
Clinton had no idea what happened when the WTC was first attacked during his watch. Will you say he was inept for letting that happen? NO you wouldn’t because you know not all attacks can be prevented in any society, ‘especially’ in an ‘OPEN FREE’ one like here in the US.-
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"But as far as Bush blowing off the ‘memo’? I think that’s over blown"...Not according to Clarke and some others that tried to warn of attacks and yes.. he should have been more watchful,but he wasn't...To many unanswered questions.
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You are absolutely right aboput Clinton not seeing the first one coming..bit again the difference in how it was handled speaks volumes.Those perpetrators are locked up..where is OBL ?
You are correct also in saying that this is a target rich country...I fear the next attacks,and there will be more attacks,will be far more destructive than 9/11.My hope is that Obama when given the reports and threats will not be asleep at the wheel and at this point there would be no excuse...But to assume there will be no more attacks would be wishful thinking.-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Besides attacking the wrong country..what ?
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The funding that was promised to homeland security has only been partially given.THe borders are as open as ever.Our ports aren't secure and our military is stretched way to thin.All of those things that have been ignored will come back to haunt us eventually.
The positive things that have been done,what there are i would only give credit to those whose job it is to do those things.-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Wow how interesting of you,,, on one hand you want to give Bush all the credit for all the bad in the world that you think his administration committed but "The positive things that have been done,what there are i would only give credit to those whose job it is to do those things."?
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Absolutely incredible.
All the wasted time i've spent with you only to find out just how far down Hate Avenue you are willing to travel.
Have a nice live 59 and ENJOY the new administration for as long as you can. Somehow I have a feeling Obama will end up just changing shoes with Bush with people that can hate with that sort of zeal. That sort of monster can never be placed in only one spot or one person, eventually it will need new victims to feed on.-
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Do you not see the damage that bush has done ?
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When old ladys were arrested ,jailed and strip searched for wearing Kerry t - shirts at one of his political rally's it just highlighted the writing on the wall(by the way,they won almost a half a million in their suit against the Gov. and the sheriffs office).To defend his actions is absolutely astonishing to me...what has he done that is good for this country..the debt,the unjustified war,our diminished stature in the world,torture,wiretaps,etc,etc,etc.How can these things be defended ?
His arrogance was only equaled by cheney's.
Yes,when anyone,republican or democrat does the damage to this country that bush has that is reason for hate,whether against him or his policy's.-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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According to Clinton the war was justified,,,,,, Even Clinton thought they had WMDs,,,,,, but yet you still give your good ol boy a pass on that one. He also had elevated interrogation techniques, wire taps and such. Where is your abject hate for him?
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Heck he even sent our troops to Bosnia to fight in a truly unjust war that we had no reason to be in. In fact Bosnia posed a far less threat to us than Iraq with the WMD programs that Clinton bombed and should have actually taken to the next level, instead of leaving it to the next administration, in order to not hurt his ‘valuable’ poll numbers.
There is no higher arrogance than putting personal polling numbers ahead of the country.-
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"According to Clinton the war was justified,,,"..So? Does that mean i'm supposed to?
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Just because the republicans believe that they have to lock step with their leaders that doesn't mean that the democrats do the same.
"Heck he even sent our troops to Bosnia to fight in a truly unjust war....."..lolol...What republicans call unjust the rest of the world was calling genocide...and by the way,,,it has been an incredible success..It was far more of a threat to us than Iraq or Iran because of the potential to involve most,if not all of Europe...BTW,how many troops lost their lives there ??
"There is no higher arrogance than putting personal polling numbers ahead of the country.."...You mean like..."Mission accomplished"..."Good job Brownie"...lol...
Still waiting for a reply on the good he did for this country? In my eye's and the majority of the country and the world bushboys two terms have been nothing less than a complete failure at all levels.-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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What republicans call unjust the rest of the world was calling genocide.
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Ahhhhhhhh finally seeing the light?
Word play on war always works...... you agree with all that death as long as it was packaged in a way to make you feeeeel good about it
What's Brownie have to do with Clinton caring more about his polls than anything else? Stay on topic......
Why take the time to list anything for someone that wouldn't agree no matter the topic.....
Bush hatred is tough to over come I wish you well on that.-
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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".. you agree with all that death as long as it was packaged in a way to make you feeeeel good about it"...
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Did i say that Slate ? No I didn't..I don't agree with going to war for oil and revenge and that is what Iraq was about for bush...big difference..I would be for going to war in Africa to stop the genocide there also.
"What's Brownie have to do with Clinton caring more about his polls than anything else? Stay on topic......"....
It was on topic Slate...you just choose not to answer because it was aimed at bush and how he chose to try to manipulate public opinion.
"Why take the time to list anything for someone that wouldn't agree no matter the topic..."
As many times and as many people that i have asked to provide some defense of bush in the form of what he has done that has helped this country is glaringly empty.
bush hatred,bush hatred,...and you refuse to see the facts and see the reasons for that hate...Again ...I am an American,this is my country,and i would hate anyone that has done the damage to it that bush and his policy's have...republican or democrat.-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Did i say that Slate ?
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Well yeah you did. You assumed it away becuse of genocide = your just reason for death and destruction.
Ok just to prove the point.
No attack since 9/11, a fairly good thing I'd say.
Billions of dollars of aide to Africa, the largest ever.
Two decent Supreme Justices.
The first Black man to lead the US forces
The first black female Sec. of State
He elevated each English speakers own self worth in their abilities.
There's a few for you to now do you dance on and prove my point.
I'll wait with baited breath-
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Well yeah you did. You assumed it away becuse of genocide = your just reason for death and destruction.".....No Slate,i didn't assume anything.In war there is death and destruction...we are the United States of America and to watch the genocide that was going on in Bosnia was not us,no more than watching it happen under hitler or to watch it in Africa...There was a cause in Bosnia,in Iraq it was(is) a war based on lies..there is no way to candy coat that.
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"No attack since 9/11, a fairly good thing I'd say."...Spain,England,India,the washington sniper,anthrax,etc,ect, Oh,i'm sorry you meant just attacks here,the one attack here..i see..yes that is a good thing..But why doesn't Clinton get the same credit...same length of time between attacks correct?
"Billions of dollars of aide to Africa, the largest ever."...
Yes,very good,billions to Africa while New Orleans was drowning and the largest debt ever in this country.
Two decent justices...yes if you adhere to right wing ideology..i don't.But i'll give you that they could be worse.
First black woman as S.O.S...good if she wasn't such a war mongering mouth piece...an dthe first woman was who?
First black man to lead American forces...only half true.
The most valid point you made was "He elevated each English speakers own self worth in their abilities."...That can not be argued "...Now would you like his list of failures and lies ?Didn't think so....you've seen it all before...The one or two decent appointments put against the bad ones looks very small...Policy's that worked against the ones that didn't...well you get the picture...In bushs case,just to be kind,if i conceded that he did make one or two decent decisions it is still a case of everything he didn't do and those things that he failed at that tell the true story.-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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You are soooooooo easy....... just as I stated previously,,,,, you go down each one with the usual liberal talking lies,,,,
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I threw in that lil speech tib bit cuz I knew you 'd swallow that lure all the way to the colon,,, thanks for joining in in the debate a bolstering the Bush Derangement Syndrome theory that's talked about.
You know, it's kinda fun being on the other side of winning an election, and being able to show youse guys what it's like,,,,,, I hope you enjoy it as much as we did and do.-
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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You actually believe that it's hate only for bush and the ideology when in fact it's about the totally incompetent way him and his administration handled EVERYTHING..9/11,the wars,the economy,Katrina,everything...total incompetence at every level.
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You all were so busy being on your knee's kissing his azz that you didn't come up long enough to see what was really going on..when you did come up for air all you say is how the left is lying...what lie's slate ? I'm waiting for you to explain..what lie's..the economy?Torture?
Slate..
"You know, it's kinda fun being on the other side of winning an election, and being able to show youse guys what it's like,,,,,, I hope you enjoy it as much as we did and do."... That comment in itself says all there needs to be said about the childishness of the right.Backing such a loser must hurt..How partisan you all really are..and how the destruction of America doesn't matter to you..just rove and limpball politics at its finest !!-
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Talking points again....
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Katrina,,,, Ike (here) FEMA is always inept. Local Governments failed but you never mention them, only BUSH. Why because you do hate him.
On 9/11, we were attacked, just like we were attacked at Pearl Harbor; which FDR had clues may happen, in fact his actions of oil embargoes made that likely. But the Ds get your usual pass.
The economy was doom from the inception of Freddie and Fannie, especially once the Dems forced the banks to give loans to those that they knew wouldn't be able to pay them, simply because they wanted the poor Americans to have the dream. A good concept when you want to feel good about yourself, but we now see that the analogy of paths and good intentions.
Lie's? The same lies that Clinton used to bomb WMD facilities? Once again, to you truths said by Dems are lies when the Rs say them or use them.
Torture? everything is 'torture' to you guys. A total of what 3 out of thousands were 'water boarded', and there was much information gleaned. Now if it makes you feel 'good' because we are supposed to be 'above' it, when the othe rguys pull finger nails, have rape rooms, acid rooms, cut off fingers, arms, legs and ultimately heads, good for you.
Ass kissing? Apparently, you haven't seen the posts I've made when I didn't like what Bush has done on Issues. I won't list them, you can find them yourself.
YOU Democrats really want to talk about childishness with all the pet names made up for every person in the Bush administration and the crass sexual comments on this thread, such as 'Circle Jerk", saying people from the south have incestuous relations with their children and even ********** as a way of conversation during 'debates'?
And as usual, you libs ALWAYS close with "How partisan you all really are..and how the destruction of America doesn't matter to you..just rove and limpball politics at its finest !!"
NOTE THE CHILDISH 'LIMPBALL' STATEMENT? Now that is what I call a mature tactic of debate by a supposed adult.
enjoy your smug childish ways, the more people like you posting your tripe will ensure a short term for the Dems.
In closing,,,,, UNLIKE YOU"D do, I wish Obama well and that he does things better than Bush in many aspects (see I don't like everything Bush does). I hope the change comes (in a good way), because despite popular belief (lies), I and other conservatives love this country.
I wonder, can he reply to this one post without a childish name about a conservative flying off his finger tips.
Thanks 59,-
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fiftynine10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I have had to respond to each one of your post about three times each..i respond..i hit reply..it goes somewhere..don't know where,but not where it's supposed to,so this is the l;ast attempt.
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Bottom line to this conversation is that we disagree.
With all of the facts that we know of the bush admin. We know we are in two wars...one based entirely on lies and conjecture..We know that little has been done about about immigration..WE know we have amassed a staggering debt mostly to a communist country,in fact you could say we have financed the war in Iraq on credit obtained from communist China..WE know that we have lost standing in the world...We know that oil prices,and oil profits reached historic levels...WE know that we had a major disaster that we did not respond to in a manner that should have..been quicker and more thorough...we know that energy policy for this country was set behind closed doors with oil execs that cheney had ties to ..we know that major corporations have failed and we are in a major recession...we know we had a president that would not allow dissent..we know we had a president that wanted to cut our soldiers pay with in a couple of weeks of invading Iraq...These things(and the list is much larger) we know..It is not lies or conjecture..it is fact.These things happened on bushes watch,but yet you and the right still scramble to make excuses and to deny that these things had anything to do with bush. Even though 80% of the country view bush as a failure and see the damage done there are still a few that continue to say that is just liberal lies..that is such crap and you know it.
And btw.."On 9/11, we were attacked, just like we were attacked at Pearl Harbor; which FDR had clues may happen..."..LOl..Was FDR holding hands and kissing the Japanese royalty before and after the attacks like bush was with the Saudi's?No ! -
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slate10 months, 4 weeks ago
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He should have been taken out way back in the 90s when we had two chances to do so. Once, we actually had him in our sights and another he was presented to us on a platter. Let's not stop with the Bush administration and be partisan.
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If Clinton would have done what needed to be done as CIC the world may be in a different place than it is today only many levels, so let's consider not placing all the blame on Bush for a change if you won't look at the things he inherited from his previous president. -
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tanglang10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Clinton was worried that assassinating Bin Laden would violate the Geneva treaty as he thought Bin laden was technically a world leader. Which is why he let him go. Bush didnt have the best leadership throughout the first few years of the wars. Which is why Bin Laden got away.
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Again though, there is nothing that can be done about that now. So who cares?-
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sinophil4910 months, 3 weeks ago
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tang - Actually, there was early, credible evidence that Osama bin Laden was the mastermind w/ help or acquiescence of the Sudanese government for the USS Cole attack. Clinton wanted to strike at OBL in Afghanistan, but the CIA refused to certify that OBL was the mastermind; so Clinton stayed his hand.
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Clinton did organize the Counterterrorism Security Group under the chairmanship of Richard Clarke. On 12/4/98, the group did specifically warn Clinton that al Qaida was planning to hijack US aircraft.
All the evidence and information was passed on to Bush. Condi Rice testified to the 9-11 Commission that the evidence about the USS Cole then in January, 2001 was
"preliminary," "circumstantial," and "It was not clear." After several months, Bush made the decision to not respond militarily to the Cole incident. Instead, he directed the State Department to develop a more comprehensive strategy to eliminate the al Qaida.
Bush held exactly 2 cabinet level discussions about terrorism between 1/20/01 to 9/11/01. Nothing was done about the possibility of airplane hijackings.
Sandy Berger, Clinton's National Security Adviser, and Brian Sheridan, deputy Defense Secretary for Special Operations under Clinton, repeatedly offered to brief the new military administration on their insight on terrorism. They were never asked.
Lt. Gen Donald Kerrich, deputy NSA and manager of the National Security Council under Clinton, sent a memo to the new NSC officials warning that "We are going to be struck again." They never responded.
On 8/6/01, the CSG sent a brief to president Bush entitled "Bin Laden Determined to strike US." The 9/11 Commission reports that Bush does not recall reading the brief nor discussing with the Def Sec, the attorney general, or w/ Condi Rice. George Tenet talked with Pres Bush on 8/13/01, 8/31/01, and 9/10/01. Tenet does not recall discussing domestic threats w/ Bush on any of these 3 meetings.
So, tang, you asked rhetorically, "So who cares?" I put it to you. The families of the 2,998 victims of the 9/11 attacks care. The families of the 4,544 casualties of the Iraq invasion care. The families of the 633 casualties of the Afghanistan war care. The entire country cares when our president and his administration do not pay attention and allow terrorist into our borders.
Bush touts the lack of new attacks on our soil as a great accomplishment. He neglects to mention and wants everyone to forget his complete failure to PREVENT the 9/11 attacks when there were ample warnings beforehand.
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Lincoln8510 months, 4 weeks ago
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I am surprised...I didn't know liberal men believed in guns...well I guess that is one thing we have in common. This makes me have to take a second look at my belief that liberal men are part of the pussification of America...I will ponder it some more.
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fiftynine10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Better ponder a lot !!! Where you all get that democrats are all far left liberals is beyond me.Nam vet and N.R.A. card holder...so think again...while your at it do a google on democrat Nam and Iraqi vets in congress ..you will be sadly disappointed in the rights showing.
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slate10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Isn't it great that any and all failings will be covered with the (It's Bush's fault blankie)?
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Go for it Mr. President, no matter what the outcome all will be blamed on Bush. Man what a sweet deal,,,,,,,,
Just remember,,,,,,,,,, you need to also get on board with those on the far left's pet issues or you too will be condemed,,,,,, but on all other issues you'll have that Blankie and a pass,,,,,,
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