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Posted by: Charlson 11 months, 1 week ago
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Charlson11 months, 1 week ago
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stalemateComment removed: Retracted by user22 Replies
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Charlson11 months, 1 week ago
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The first bailout would have worked a lot better if there had been accountability and transparency. And you have a habit of always blaming the Democrats for pork. Duiring the first six years of Bush's administration and Republican control, pork ran rampant. Did you forget that part? And before you accuse me of being a Democrat, let me assure you I'm not. I'm an Independent.
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beavith111 months, 1 week ago
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pork in the first 6 years? of Bush's reign? as McCain was derided for making it a point that he campaigned on, it amounted to $18B a year.
BFD.
i DREAM of only $18B in these upcoming years.
i do detect a certan amount of biterness in Stalemate's post. he can see it coming. so can i.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 6) (recursion depth : 4) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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Charlson11 months, 1 week ago
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Look up the Congressional record beavith1, making up crap doesn't make it right. Sort of like saying how Obama's inauguaration cost $170 billion and Bush's only $40 plus billion while not counting the costs of security and logistics but was included in the figures for Obamas.
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beavith111 months, 1 week ago
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whoa. don't get upset.
last i saw Obama's inauguaration parties totalled $150M, when Bush 2004 was $35M
but i'm not talking about that.
so. McCain was right? $18B is now a big deal? in the face of $1 or 2Trillion?
i'm not picking on Obama, if that's what's making you mad. Congress gets the brunt of my anger.
those morons are in the process of sacrewing the pooch.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 8) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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willottica11 months, 1 week ago
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Okay, so that you can no longer say "last I saw".
Obama's inauguration, with security, came to just under $160M, Bush's inauguration, with security, came to just under $160M.
Previous values for the Bush inauguration did not include the $115M security tab.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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willotticaComment removed: Spam
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willotticaComment removed: Spam
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willotticaComment removed: Spam
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willottica11 months, 1 week ago
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it's not spam!
I hate this bloody spam filter.
What is not the case? And if it is not the case, what is? And can you provide backups for your assertions.
Here's mine. An article that was posted and discussed yesterday...
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/20/the-medi...
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willottica11 months, 1 week ago
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...discusses it in detail, and also provides references to other articles:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A224...
(Bush's tally doesn't include security costs)(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 10) (recursion depth : 8) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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willottica11 months, 1 week ago
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and
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/06/us/politics/06do...
(Money spent by private donors and money spent on security in '05.)
Btw, don't think we're dating after all that handholding, it just seemed like you needed help doing follow-up on facts. Next time do some research on your own.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 10) (recursion depth : 8) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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wtagg11 months, 1 week ago
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So, Iraq wasn't pork? Please define what it was and what it accomplished and brought back in equity to the taxpayer.
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wtagg11 months, 1 week ago
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Hopefully the president , presidential candidate, and your representatives that you voted for did not propose or vote for it.
My guess is that you fail on almost all these points.
If they voted against your wishes, what have you done to change that?(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 7) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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willottica11 months, 1 week ago
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What can he do before the next election? Not a whole lot. And there's not a whole lot he can do at the next election, because politicians nowadays are so far removed from the people they are supposed to represent.
With a population the size that it is, government needs many more layers. I don't think a representative can successfully communicate with many more than 1,000 constituents, yet Senators represent, on average, 3,000,000. (Actually, 2 of them share the representation of 6,000,000 -- which is NOT the same thing.)
1 voice, 10 voices, 1,000 voices crying for change means nothing to a Senator. 100,000 voices crying for change mean nothing, because there's 5,900,000 other voices that are silent. Yet one lobbyist has more influence than that entire group, because they have the ear of the representative.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 8) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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willottica11 months, 1 week ago
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That's not quite what I meant. The issue is not that there aren't enough people in government, but that the layers of representation are not there.
The vast number of people in government includes all the support staff and those running government-sponsored programs. I'm talking simply about the elected representatives being insufficient to represent the people.
A concerned citizen with a valid point will likely be ignored by a representative who has 6,000,000 constituents.
That same citizen, in a constituency of 1000 would likely be listened to. And if that representative listens and agrees, then as one of 1000 low-reps reporting to a mid-rep, they could bring it to the next level, and if that mid-rep agrees, they could bring it to a high-rep. That valid message from a single citizen could make its way up to the Senator making decisions, and be one of a thousand, rather than one of 6,000,000.
I did think about this quite seriously while running for office in Canada. If elected, I would have represented 100,000 people, and there is no way that I could hear all of their concerns. Especially since many would be the same and hearing them over and over would waste an incredible amount of time. If elected, I planned to listen through the heads of the community organizations, get them to filter the thousands of identical requests into a single request (maybe telling me how many times they heard it). In that way, I could hear ALL requests in a manageable fashion, and every citizen would have a voice.
But it relies on a lot of work from the community organization leaders. Work which they may not want to do.
A layered government, where no-one represents more than 1,000 people (much like a business, where no manager would have anywhere near that many subordinates) is the only way of organizing and hearing everyone. True, it takes away direct contact from citizen to Senator, but for the average citizen, that direct contact is nothing but an illusion.
What I've just described is the theory behind the Electoral College. A group elected by the citizenry to choose the lawmakers. The citizenry, according to the founding fathers, should not directly elect the President. Because they do, the President elected is the one who can advertise the best. And that means he is a member of one of the 2 major parties. That means he is the one who panders the most to lobbyists and special interests (because they in turn give him those advertising dollars).
If citizens were to vote for an elector for their values, and that elector were free to vote for ANYONE for President, then the electors would be responsible to the citizens, and the President would be responsible to the electors. As it is, there is very little responsibility, because of the huge numbers involved. The electoral college is only an obfuscation of the popular vote, because people don't even know who the electors are, just who they have pledged to vote for.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 10) (recursion depth : 8) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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RRconComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned
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Tangent00111 months, 1 week ago
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"Yes sir ree those Democrats added enough pork to the first one it was bound to fail."
Source please. None of the TARP money was earmarked, it was a blanket fund to be used largely at the discretion of the Treasury Secretary.
Here's where the money went:
* sent checks totaling $168 billion in varying amounts to 116 banks;
* committed another $82 billion to capitalize more banks;
* bought $40 billion in preferred shares of American International Group (AIG, Fortune 500) so the troubled insurer could pay off an earlier loan from the Federal Reserve;
* committed $20 billion to back any losses that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York might incur under the Term Asset-Backed Securities Loan Facility;
* committed to invest $20 billion in Citigroup on top of $25 billion the bank had already received;
* committed $5 billion as a loan loss backstop to Citigroup;
* agreed to loan $13.4 billion to GM and Chrysler to get them through the next few months.
Now, which of those was 'Democrat pork'?
Of course, nobody has a clue what all these companies actually DID with these funds. Sec. Paulson was too busy distributing the money to be 'bothered' about how (or even IF) the money was being used.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 5) (recursion depth : 3) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
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