Trials for Parents Who Chose Faith Over Medicine »
Posted By mageek 10 months, 2 weeks ago in News
Kara Neumann, 11, had grown so weak that she could not walk or speak. Her parents, who believe that God alone has the ability to heal the sick, prayed for her recovery but did not take her to a doctor.
Read Full Story at nytimes.com »
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Albmore10 months, 2 weeks ago
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God has provided man with knowledge. This is ignorance. God heals. Yes i believe this, but God has used mans hands to accomplish much of his will. Did not Jesus lay hands on the sick and they were healed? Has God not used men to move nations? If you believe in God then you should use ALL the resoures God has provided us. Then it will be Gods decission on how it goes further.
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memestryker10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hmmm, and how many people share belief in this supernatural folk character--an all-powerful male being of which you speak? The folklore justifies the subjugation of women. History really was written by the winners and reflects their bias.
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LIZ810 months, 2 weeks ago
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Thank you for setting the record straight. I'm one who believes in the power of God to heal. I was healed of this superbug that has killed so many. I know that God gave the doctors the knowledge to use the right medications to heal one of His children.
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BeachBux10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Agreed. God is so great that he has figured out a way to outsource his healing opperations down to Earth in the forms of medical professionals. Efficient system... sort of like shipping tech support off to India on a grand scale.
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and MemeStryker..... not all religions are based around the subjegation of women (blah blah blah) and as for god being fictional: the absense of evidence is not evidence of absense
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orndorffter10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I beleive that God heals, But he has made the hands of a Doctor to heal, for one second if one of my sons got sick when they were younger, off to the doctor or the hospital they went. The clinic knew my voice by heart,and would tell me to calm down. Never would I had let my faith stand in the way of taking my childs to a doctor, this is pure nuts.And what ever the Judge decides they deserve it, because that little girl did not deserve to die.
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The Neumanns believe in faith healing and that only God could have saved Kara. President Bush talks to God and sent young men and women to die in a pointless war. I am outraged at both.
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I say we put God on trial for allowing these idiots to do awful and hideous things in his name. Of course, we'll need an artist's sketch of God and an address first. But, I think God should get a fair trial and be allowed to speak on his own behalf. -
Republicrat1844Comment removed: Retracted by user
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CHAM10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Adults can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't infringe on another humans rights and well being. Children are human. They have the right to medical help. If someone turn it down simply because they feel differently, then those people are guilty of denying that other person their rights.
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Since those children are human beings, they have been wronged because of the denial by their parents.
Those parents should face the Judge.-
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CajunChamp10 months, 2 weeks ago
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First, I deeply sympathize with the situation, etc. However, this is a minor child and has no legal rights. The next of kin, in this case the parents, have guardianship over the minor child and unfortunately have the right to deny medical treatment. If this child were 18 yo or older and could not make the decision because of some impairment, then the parents still have the right to make the decision. I realize this isn't the way it should be but it is. Sometimes we just live in a rotten world.
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willottica10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I protest the nomination. The Darwin awards are for those that do the world a favor by removing their own stupid genes from the gene pool. Unless you are saying that their girl deserved to die because she would have been as stupid as her parents, I think you may also want to rethink that nomination.
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Natureboy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Once again, the conversation would be more meaningful if we leave God out of it.
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These nimwads denied their own child desperately needed medical care, and so caused her death. They are as responsible as they would be if the child died due to lack of food or water. And they should face the same legal consequences.
Saying that God told them to do it is not about sh!t. How many serial killers said they were acting under instructions from God?-
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Coatl10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I think the most important question is how those people supposedly talking to god is different for any other minister or church member saying that god told them to do certain thing. How could you determine wether someone is talking or not to god? To me, this is just a symptom of a bigger problem, the will of some people to support faith over reason. I'm not aganist faith at all, but when you put it before anything, this kind of things certainly will happen.
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Georgia5010 months, 2 weeks ago
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Natureboy,
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How many foster care case workers declared they were doing the state's bidding when they lost track of a child, only to have that child end up dead in the custody of a known crack wh-r-?
You want perfect? NASA has a launch with your name on it. You want life? Stick around.
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TheNewsseeker10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The only possibility I see to avoid such cases of criminally negligent homicide caused by religious extremism, is to install regular obligatory medical check-ups up to the age of twelve.
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Otherwise the believe in fait healing will cost the lives of another hundreds of children who are helplessly delivered to their superstitious parents! -
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Georgia5010 months, 2 weeks ago
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For another example of how "religion kills," perhaps you should visit an American missionary outpost deep in an African or Malaysian jungle, where medical attention is nonexistent in emergency situations. Go tell these missionaries that their reliance on the Living God for the well being of their children is misplaced. Might want to take a voice recorder with you. Because they will tell you that reliance on God through prayer is so critical to their survival and the health of their children, that missionaries have to be thoughtful NOT to look down on those missionaries whose children do get sick and are not healed.
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Get back to us when you return, k?
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amazed10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I don't think this as cut and dried as most of you others would like it to be.
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Personally, I think these people are wrong and that their beliefs are ridiculous. I don't even have any patience with women who decide to give birth at home because it is more intimate -- I insisted on the hospital with the top-levil NICU just in case.
HOWEVER, we are a country that has a constitution that guarantees that Congress shall make no law establishing a religion NOR prohibiting the free expression thereof. To require people to do something or submit to procedures that they are certain will condemn their souls to hell is not allowing them the free expression of their religion. In fact, in many of these faith-healing religions, to save their daughter's life would be to condemn her to hell forever. If you are truly faithful, your eternal life is far more important than your corporal life.
On the other hand, a child is not able to make his/her own decisions about what they truly believe and an argument might be made that, in that case, the state can step in to protect the child. But where do you draw the line as to what practices and religions are okay?
It's okay to teach your children and belong to a religion that doesn't accept modern medicine, but you can't allow them to practice it? That doesn't make much sense either.
The whole point of the bill of rights, in general, is to insure that individuals have the right to live their lives as they see fit with minimum interference from the government. Taking away one's children or even one's authority over one's children's care is pretty draconian and could very well be a slippery slope.
Here in CT, the state already tells me what time my minor children should be home (11 pm-- licenses are invalid under 18), how many friends they may go out with and many other things that are not only annoying, but none of the state's
business.
I'm not sure what the answer here is, but I'm pretty sure that prosecution and nanny government isn't it.-
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UpholdOurConsitution10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The moment that this young girl's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness was infringed upon is the moment that her parents abandoned all of their own rights. ALL PEOPLE HAVE THOSE THREE KEY, INALIENABLE RIGHTS, AND THAT INCLUDES THE LITTLE GIRL IN QUESTION HERE. Sweeping this matter under the cloak of religious freedom is perverse, to say the least. The God that I serve favors compassion over cruelty.. If cruelty is human, then comassion is divine!
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willottica10 months, 2 weeks ago
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To take an example from the Christian bible: If I were to sacrifice my child with a large knife on an altar, and claim that my religion required me to do it, do you think religious beliefs would be any sort of appropriate defense?
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Sorry, but freedom to religion only goes so far, it doesn't allow you to perform human sacrifice, which is exactly what these parents have done.
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lvrofwolves10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I agree with many things you said amazed, 'But where do you draw the line as to what practices and religions are okay?'
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I think pretty much where your own body begins, and own body ends,unless you are under the age of consent.
Our laws trump any religious 'laws, beliefs' is it always right? no, but when you put someone else's life at risk, you're taking that persons rights away that you put at risk. Children's rights differ from adult rights, rightfully so, children need more protections.
I have no problems with anyone believing in prayer, but it's secondary to medical care.-
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amazed10 months, 2 weeks ago
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As I replied to UpholdOurConstitution, if we only allow people to practice those religions that the majority of us deem "acceptable", that is not really freedom of religion.
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On the other hand, I can see the urge to protect this kid from these religious practices that the majority of the rest of us find ridiculous, harmful and generally untenable.
Can you really ask someone with strong religious convictions to condemn not only their own souls, but that of their child's to eternal hell because you believe that they are wrong?
Now, if you can show that they waivered and used medicine of any kind since they became members of this religion, then I would say that all bets are off, and the state is then free to step in because they, themselves, opened the door.
Of course, finding THAT out would necessarily be quite intrusive.
It's a very tough problem, if you are really going to try to grant these people the rights granted them by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
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kyramizuno10 months, 2 weeks ago
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' A small town was flooding, and the pastor was trapped in the church. A boat came by, and they said 'Pastor, get in the boat!'
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But he said 'No. God shall save me!' And so the boat went on. The water raised, he was on the second floor, another boat came by, and they said 'Pastor, get in the boat!'
Again, he said 'No. God shall spare my life!' And so the boat went on. The water rose and he found himself on the roof when a helicopter came, and they said 'Pastor! For the love of all that's good, get IN THE HELICOPTER! This is your last chance!'
But he said 'No. I have faith that the Good Lord will protect me from harm!' And so the helicopter left. The water rose, and the pastor drowned. When he arrived at the gates of heaven, he spoke to God. 'Lord, I don't get it. I worshiped you, I did all you wanted, why would you not spare my life?'
To which God responded with 'Well I sent you two boats AND a helicopter, what MORE did you want?' '
The moral of the story? Sometimes God is sending you help, but because there's no 'Crack of thunder' or any talking, burning shrubbery, we tend to not listen. -
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Georgia5010 months, 2 weeks ago
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My response is limited to fellow believers.
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One ought to distinguish between what one knows God can do vs. what--on the basis of spiritual intimacy--one knows that God fully intends to do. As the throngs of people crowded around Jesus, he knew the instant that healing power had gone from him to only one person in the crowd.
Many can crowd around him. Few fully experience him as he intended. A wise parent ought at least to see the distinction and act accordingly.-
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antibrainwasher10 months, 2 weeks ago
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If you repsonce is limited to fellow morons, why did you post it to pollute this blog?
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There is no god, and if you are a parent and poisoning the minds of children with your god delusions, like the liquid crap above, then you are no better than the freaks that let their children die for the will of the invisible charleton Heston head in the sky.
Baby jesus, the jew god/human hybrid is a myth, just like zeus or baccus or mohammad or what ever fantasy world the Teliban perpetuate. Its a freaking fairy tale. NOT applicable to science or medicine or non-insane rationality.
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antibrainwasher10 months, 2 weeks ago
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For the thousandth time, there is no freaking fracking god. Only thousands of gods invented by con men to grift gullible morons out of their money.
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for the thousandth time, hundreds of double blind statistical analysis have been done, and telepathy to an imaginary god does NOT, repeat, does NOT affect any medical out come.
Morons: say it with me, there is no god. No afterlife.
Its a good thing when children of creationist baboons die, they should be given the Darwin awards, for taking moron DNA out of the gene pool.-
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CajunChamp10 months, 2 weeks ago
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You have a right to your opinion based on fact or myth, doesn't matter. Everyone else also has the right to an opinion to agree or disagree with you. You are not a moron for stating your opinion and anybody that has a different opinion is likewise not a moron. Keep that in mind when you start flinging moron accusations.
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UpholdOurConsitution10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The existence of God cannot be proven or disproven ABW. You have your beliefs and so does everyone else, but stating your beliefs as if it were fact is just downright laughable. Of course, for all anyone on this Earth knows, you could be right in all you say... However, no one knows for sure about God or any of that stuff, and that includes you. So, I'll just sit back and laugh while reading your comments here, just like I do every other time I see one of your posts. I'm just glad they're shorter than usual on this thread. LOL.
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qantumreflection10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Even Jesus said to be like Him. Do as He does. He healed the sick. By the same reasoning, each of us have the power to heal others. But I'm sure alot of zealots will scream this down, despite it being the gospel.
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Along with the lack of HELL. Sure fire and brimstone is mentioned, taken in the context of the time it meant "destruction" not eternal suffering at the hands of fallen angels. What kind of loving God would send any soul to that HELL?
But my thoughts are just mere mental notes of the thoughts of common thinking, not what I personally believe.
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