Bad Faith Economics »
Posted By Beau7890 9 months, 2 weeks ago in Business & FinanceAs the debate over President Obama's economic stimulus plan gets under way, one thing is certain: many of the plan's opponents aren't arguing in good faith. Conservatives really, really don't want to see a second New Deal, and they certainly don't want to see government activism vindicated. So they are reaching for any stick they can find with which to beat proposals for increased government spending.
Read Full Story at nytimes.com »
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Beau7890
Truth rests on the mathematical reeds of the infinite and everything moves forward by order of the eagle riding pillion, while the genius of vegetable ...
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buckncindykill9 months, 2 weeks ago
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It's a fraud. If what Obama, Pelosi and Reid want is defined as success and economic stimulus:
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* Swimming Pools
* Arts funding
* Contraception programs
* Sports stadiums
* Parking garages
Then I hope they fail too.
The quickest way to stimulate our economy right now would be to allow the people who earn the money to keep it and spend it on what they want, not what politicians want. That means tax cuts.
Democrats want nothing but spending ... no tax cuts. Pelosi says she'll judge ideas by ability to create jobs. Bull-cocky! She'll judge the ideas based on their ability to grow government
Let's take the birth control bit. There's about hundreds of millions in the "stimulus bill" for birth control funding. The aging hollow-eyed hippie has an explanation. We are supposed to stop having children in order to reduce costs. Stopping women from having children will "help states meet their financial needs." Yeah .. they have all those expenses from health care and education. New human beings are bad for the economy.-
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GWHayduke9 months, 2 weeks ago
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Yeah, those Bush tax cuts had a wildly positive affect on the economy.......assuming you're among the top 2% wealthiest Americans.
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Democrats want nothing but spending.........HAHAHA!
Take a look at the budget from the past 8 years bucky.
The greatest spending spree in history; all at the hands of the "fiscal conservatives".
Right into an unaccountable trillion dollar deficit, and the largest increase in the size of governmental bureaucracy ever!!!
Saying it doesnt make it so, but apparently it DOES make you believe the crap you parrot.
Funny stuff. -
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Beau78909 months, 2 weeks ago
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Okay, look, buck: you have no reason to believe that Obama's plan is the same as Pelosi's and Reid's, other than that they're members of the same political party. I will agree in that I'm not happy with the way this legislation appears to be shaping up so far. (The process is not finished, however.)
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Spending on those bulleted projects you enumerate accounts for a tiny portion of the entire bill.
Tax cuts in fact made up a significant portion of the package as introduced in Congress, --more than I'd recommend, in fact, as they really don't do anything to stimulate the economy or job creation. (We've already had tax cuts for the top income brackets and for employers over the past eight years, and it didn't prevent the current crisis, nor did it create many jobs.)
As I've said all over Propeller in the past few days, Congress is a huge obstacle that Obama cannot surmount on his own--yes, that's both parties. Members on both sides load up important legislation with favored projects, so less important spending and other proposals (like electronic health-record databases) can be buried in it and voted on at once, with little public scrutiny, in massive packages like this stimulus.
You may have reason to complain about Pelosi and Reid. The fact is, the same thing was done when Republicans controlled Congress and the White House. But don't lump Obama into your complaint unless you can show he supports this ridiculous legislative process. And don't pretend it's something only one party does, either. -
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ForrestPhelps9 months, 2 weeks ago
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To buckncindykill:
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RTDA!
(Read the dang article)
Every thing you mention is addressed in the article.
And refuted as being wrong.
Write something about why Krugman is wrong - takes some quotes (heck, just one quote) from his article and research it and refute his point.
Otherwise, you're nothing but a shill.
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flyonthewallzzComment removed: Spam
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flyonthewallzz9 months, 2 weeks ago
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http://pndblog.typepad.com/.a/6a00e0099631d0883301...
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Here is a decent chart.
I think the Obama team made a tactical error by offering such a huge tax cut in the beginning.
I tend to read the .pdfs and the one put out by the previous administration said they could balance the budget by 2010, and even a dumb carpenter like me could see huge holes in it.-
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flyonthewallzz9 months, 2 weeks ago
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I was just looking at this one.
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http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1t...
No "pie in the Sky"!
I know many folks here will disagree, but I think we are dealing with a straight shooter here.
Death to the SPAM monster! -
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Beau78909 months, 2 weeks ago
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I agree that the tax cuts will not be effective. I believe they were added to make the plan more palatable to the opposition, though oddly enough Republicans are now complaining about them.
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But in the chart you found (great chart, btw), if you look at all those tiny wedges at the bottom right of the circle, those would all create new industries (and jobs along with them). And there's a case to be made that all those other expenditures (except for the tax cuts) would either prevent job losses or create new jobs in existing sectors...although it's hard to tell from the chart exactly how that money would be spent--the intention is kind of nebulous.
I'll have to read the 14-page PDF you linked to in the other comment to learn more about the plan.
Doesn't it say on this (and every other) page in Propeller that we're allowed to post up to three links per comment? Any time I post more than one, my comments get removed as spam, too.
Incidentally, I seem to have trouble with ampersands in comments...in the reply I gave above to your comment about stimulating new, smaller companies to replace those that are "too big to fail," I now notice that where I intended to write "R and D" using an ampersand, the "and D" was truncated.
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DenCuddy9 months, 2 weeks ago
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Great story Beau and a better link fly. Just wait though, The poor republicans world is crashing down around them and they don't have a delusional president to reassure them everything is OK.
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Guess what guys republicans screwed the economy and concentrated on the wrong war. Now reality shines in and they start screaming obscenities and convulsing, LMAO! -
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nostalgia9 months, 2 weeks ago
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The only thing I ask is focus in the bill
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If the money/project does not create or save a job remove it
There is just too much we need in the way of infrastructure to be wasting money on anything else right now
Obama promised to go through spending bills line by line. This will be the first test of that promise
The St Petersburg Times has an interesting article - Politifact.com
They have listed over 500 promises Obama made during the campaign and are tracking the progress of each promise
Here is the section on the economy:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/s...
No. 457: Invest $150 billion to encourage "green" business sector - No action
No. 505: Create a $3,000 tax credit for companies that add jobs
Stalled - apparently Copngress didn't like that one
No. 507: Extend unemployment insurance benefits and temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits
Most are listed as "no action" so apparently Congress hasn't included them in the stimulus bill-
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nostalgia9 months, 2 weeks ago
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If you are interested the St Pete article starts here:
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PolitiFact has compiled about 500 promises that Barack Obama made during the campaign and is tracking their progress on our Obameter. We rate their status as No Action, In the Works or Stalled. Once we find action is completed, we rate them Promise Kept, Compromise or Promise Broken
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/ -
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Beau78909 months, 2 weeks ago
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Obama can go through each bill sent to him by Congress line by line--and should, as members of Congress should before they vote, but he doesn't have line-item veto power, which means he has to either sign a bill or reject it as a whole. And as I'm sure you know, he can't add lines either. All he can do is keep working with Congress to get particular items added or removed. How long will that take, and do you think it's possible, even after months of negotiating, for him to get the exact bill he'd like sent to him?
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thoughtforsale9 months, 2 weeks ago
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If everybody agreed with Obama´s plans to save the economy, there was something wrong with them! It is quite normal that this discussion is abused for political struggles. There might be, with good reasons I think, fears arising, when so much money is spent. It seems to be contradictive to invest, when everyone is talking about liquidity problems, but remembering that recession is basicly caused by a decline of demand and consumation, it becomes easier to understand that the government must support banks and enterprises by investments and financial bails.
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