Comments for Karl Rove Subpoenaed! I've NEVER Seen Olbermann John Dean Look Happier :) »
Posted By jovial 10 months, 4 weeks ago in Political NewsKarl Rove subpoenaed! What will be the Obama White House position on executive priviledge after a President leaves the White House? Does this Executive priviledge provide an umbrella over all the aides he served with.
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jovial10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Beau789010 months, 4 weeks ago
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Snubbing a Congressional subpoena under the guise of "executive privilege" for White House staffers was an absurd rationalization. Rove's strategy of asking Obama to reaffirm Bush's use of executive privilege seems a fairly transparent attempt to divide the public and show that Obama isn't nearly as bipartisan as he claims.
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With a reasonable explanation of the precedence of upholding Congressional authority to investigate members of the executive branch, Obama should be able to invalidate such an argument. And Obama has already shown a desire to restore Constitutional checks and balances between branches of government, even at the expense of some of the executive branch power Bush usurped. -
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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In addition to Cheney, I'd like to see the intellectual lightweights Miers and Gonzo (again) in front of Congress. Last I heard poor Al still can't get a job and we've seen how disgruntled Republicans become when they feel shafted (Palin, Powell, Brownie, McClellen, Hagel, Haggard...oh...that reminds me...Katherine Harris, to name a handful).
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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The process is the same. If it worked for Clinton why not Bush. There were Aids to Clinton who either had areas where they would not answer questions or not appear at all. That is a fact you are leaving out. Several aids to Bush testified as well. Always the Republican is wrong and the Democrat is right. Your bias is showing.
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BBcamaro10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Here's one right quick, on lunch don't really have time to really look some more up.
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http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-6604314.html-
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Here's a quick one for you.
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http://sitesearch.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politi... -
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djn3nunez310 months, 3 weeks ago
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BBcamaro - Come back after lunch and see what the courts did in the above case
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http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-6618400.html
Court blocks Clinton's executive privilege bid in Lewinsky case White House aides must answer grand jury questions, judge rules-
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BBcamaro10 months, 3 weeks ago
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You're right the "COURT" blocked it. Most of the aides that did answer questions had preset conditions on what questions could be asked. Even though the court ruled against him, it still proves that Clinton used "Executive Privilege" to protect his aides. Yes or No? The court has not ruled yet in the Carl Rowe's case yet.
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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You are funny. The liberal ranters never have had evidence of wrongdoing just ranting about things being unconstitutional or criminal. All that will happen in any of this will be an excuse to embarrass Bush. Silly people who rant without EVIDENCE. Guess what is required in a court of law? EVIDENCE.
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Show it.-
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dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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ROFLMAO, no I believe in your world they didnt have any evidence in the real world it seems evidence and proof abound otherwise all those REPUBLICANS wouldnt have been hiding behind executive privilege. After all if they have nothing to hide ......... See Endo this isnt teh REPUBLICAN joust against Clinton with the lets hold an investigation and find any evidence we can. (Kinda odd how it went from a land deal investigation to a bj in the oval office, still trying to see how those two are related) . There ARE documented violations and lets hope the trials begin shortly and you can then NOT READ all that too.
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Uhh...Which subpoenas did Clinton's administration ignore, Endo? I'm sure you can provide us with a list since you're so vocal on the issue. Thanks, looking forward to hearing about all the Clinton admin people who thumbed their noses at subpoenas. ;-P
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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With your vaunted memory you should just pick them out for me. 9 to 15 years ago and I am supposed to remember names. Try again. I just remember the Republican congressmen complaining like the Democrats did the last two years. Everybody they questioned had amnesia as well. "I don't remember." was the favorite answer.
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"With your vaunted memory you should just pick them out for me. 9 to 15 years ago and I am supposed to remember names."
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--Tell me about it, Endo. Until you reminded me, I forgot that during a debate I'm supposed to substantiate my arguments and the other guy's as well. This totally slipped my mind. ;-P
"I just remember the Republican congressmen complaining like the Democrats did the last two years."
--Oh...Well, why didn't you tell me that you vaguely recall such fine details earlier? When you put it that way, your opinion is way more compelling than actual facts.
"Everybody they questioned had amnesia as well. "I don't remember." was the favorite answer."
--I hate when that happens. Maybe if the Dems you mentioned had followed your approach and simply asked Republicans to provide them with a list of answers to their questions in advance of each hearing, they would've remembered more stuff and then Republicans would not have been so irritated that they couldn't remember things. No wonder there is so much gridlock in Congress. Now I'm really steamed. ;-(
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StevieGee10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Clinton aides and Clinton himself testified before Congress. That's what got him in trouble. Endo, you seem to be able to quote what he said to Congress but unable to recall that he was there. These people have completely defied Congressional subpoenas. They should be cuffed and perp walked in front of their families.
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jovial10 months, 4 weeks ago
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I agrre Beau, this is politics in it's purest form. I think that Rove is counting on the fact that Obama is asking for Republican support on this bailout package. He's thinking Obama won't want to ruffle any feathers of those in the Republican base that supported Bush and his minions. I think Obama has to decide, and rather quickly, if he's going to do something about the past administration's abuses or not. I am in heavy anticipation of that response.
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gamahuche10 months, 4 weeks ago
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I hope - and expect that Obama will decide that executive privelege for Karl Rove is way past its sell-by date.
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UNLESS KR has something on Obama that the rest of us are unaware of..
But there may be more in this than meets the eye - for example this last election was virtually free of accusations of electoral fraud AND KR was conspicuously inconspicuous.
Would it be paranoid to CONSIDER the possibility that KR might have bought his get-out-jail-free by promising to keep his head down and not interfere?
I'd like to assure you that I'm not supporting any extreme hypothesis here - just throwing them out for consideration.-
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Beau789010 months, 4 weeks ago
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If Rove had something on Obama, he'd certainly have used it months ago when he realized Obama was going to be the strongest Democratic candidate. Though that won't stop him from trying to manufacture something against him, as this situation will demonstrate.
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When Obama denies Rove's request for protection from the subpoena, watch for Rove to attempt to smear Obama with playing politics for partisan gain....or possibly even something more sinister, as was done during the election.
Fortunately, there are few outside of Fox News fans who believe anything Rove says comes from an objective standpoint. (Unfortunately, many have forgotten this about Newt Gingrich by now.)-
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Jeboba10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I'd like to see Robe ride off to crawford and shovel $hit in Bush's corral. After all, that's what he's been doing for Bush forever and he's really good at it. We could all even pitch in and get him a new pair of rubber boots and a big wide shovel. He'll need it to dig his way out of this one!
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Obama! Do NOT let this snake wiggle free! -
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jordan1110 months, 3 weeks ago
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When Obama denies Rove's request for protection from the subpoena, watch for Rove to attempt to smear Obama with playing politics for partisan gain....or possibly even something more sinister, as was done during the election.>>>>>
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Why would Obama be the one deciding? Would this not be for the courts to decide?
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Ok...I just did a search on Clinton's administration and I couldn't find any so I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help substantiating your argument for you. I'll try again next time I see one of your 100% opinion-based counter-arguments. Have faith. ;-P
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judah-hertzComment removed: Hard Banned8 Replies
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Regardless of those being investigated or the circumstances involved, we can look forward to lots of wailing from the GOP and much accountability-shirking, rationalizing and denial from the usual Propeller cons suspects. We'll be told this investigation or that hearing is a "witch hunt" and we'll hear my favorite line of GOP BS--"our country has much more important things to focus on, let's not waste our taxpayers' money on this, let's not look backward, blah blah blah..."
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That is, as long as the matter does not involve the least significant of stumbles that will be made by Obama or Biden (lipstick, anyone?) or a Democrat. In that case, all bets are off. Revenge for the sake of revenge will be the rule of the day and suddenly right wingers will be concerned with the letter of the law.
What we won't hear is accountability or contrition when Bush administration lies, corruption, coverups, and criminality are exposed. No. We can't have that. So look forward to more Alaska politician inspired responses. After all, everyone knows that when you're convicted of seven felonies, you're not *really* officially a convicted felon until all of your appeals are exhausted. Oh well, at least that put a temporary sock in the steady chorus of cons bleating about William "Cold Cash" Jefferson. ;-P-
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Hhussk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Not surprisingly, you're more concerned about the GOP when clearly the liberals are in the majority. You have the White House, the House of Representatives, and the Senate. And yet, here you are whining about what the GOP is going to say when all your policies fail.
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You, and liberals like you, need to spend more time trying to come up with solutions. If you were ever to succeed, more people would come on board with your agenda.
You won't be able to blame someone else this time...-
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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How about coming up with solutions to the financial mess that the Democrats created with Barry's help. He taught ACORN. ACORN lobbied congress for changes to CRA etc. after Fannie and Freddy refused to accept loans with less than 10% down. They succeded in 1992 and it took effect in 1995. Housing boom. Oops Fannjie and Freddy seem to be getting in trouble. Look at the youtube on those hearings.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs
Thank you Democrats for the housing bust in 2006. That caused the financial melt down because of all the mortgaged backed papers held by those institutions lost over 30% of their value. Poof, money gone. Bankruptcies galore. Thank you Democrats. Are you going to fix your compassion it the mortgage industry that brought this on? -
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dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"You, and liberals like you, need to spend more time trying to come up with solutions. If you were ever to succeed, more people would come on board with your agenda."
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ROFLMAO, maybe you missed it. It seems quite a few people came on board with the agenda. After all we just had an election where the agenda YOU supported was kicked to the curb. When you sepnmd 8 years developing all kinds of problems its always intersting to listen tot he right demand instant solutions for the problems THEY created.-
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Poor jovial can't read.
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I was responding to the inane comment "Basically, the only thing that can be blame is not coming up with a solution for a problem(s) created by the previous admin."
The financial meltdown was a creation of the compassion of the Democrats in banking and especially mortgages.
As far as Rove goes. Does Obama really want for Rove to testify with what he really knows? A lot of that is very sensitive issues that will create a problem for Obama if they should ever see the light of day. There is a reason for executive privilege. Look at what Obama has done himself. Glib generalities and very little details. It makes a difference when you sit in that office.
Part of Obama's early career he worked for and taught ACORN people. He sued Citibank to try and force them to give out more CRA loans. Goggle it.-
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dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Does Obama really want for Rove to testify with what he really knows? A lot of that is very sensitive issues that will create a problem for Obama if they should ever see the light of day."
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Seems you know all about it. ROFLMAO.
"There is a reason for executive privilege. Look at what Obama has done himself. Glib generalities and very little details. It makes a difference when you sit in that office."
Maybe you should have your posts read before you post. This makes pretty much no sense. Only to you does Obama speak in generalities, The article has nothing to do with Obamas agenda it has to do with violations of the law which the REPUBLICANS seemed to do on a regular basis. -
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Tangent00110 months, 3 weeks ago
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Bottom line: Only 1/6 of the sub-prime loans issued had anything whatsoever to do with the CRA. While it may have contributed to the housing bubble, it was hardly solely responsible.
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Borrowers were steered toward sub-prime loans even when they qualified for conforming loans. Sub-prime loans were simply more lucrative for the lender in the short term. After the gutting of the Glass-Steagal Act, banks could pretty much do whatever the heII they wanted. They got greedy, lost their shirts, and then hollered to Mommy for a bailout.
The weakening of the GSA occurred under Reagan, Bush41 and Clinton, with the Clinton Congress finally putting the last nail in the coffin. -
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Will131310 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Freddie Mac recently began 25 initiatives around the country to dismantle barriers and create greater opportunities for homeownership. One of the programs is designed to help deserving families who have bad credit histories to qualify for homeownership loans."
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from a Bush press conference in 2002... BUSH deregulated the mortgage industry..
YOU are either uninformed or a LIAR.... -
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beavith110 months, 3 weeks ago
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short answer? no, he shouldn't. clearly he holds congress in contempt. ;-) as i do.
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seriously. this subpoena supports my fear of the democratic style of leadership. they had no plan in 2006 except to run "investigations."
this is just more of the same.
its not a terrible strategy. they won elections.
problem is, after the finger pointing is done, they DO have the driver's seat. even if you accept (and i don't) that the democrats have no culpability in this mess, they ARE now the leadership. they can't hide. passing judgement might feel good, but it accomplishes nothing except extracting their political pound of flesh.
i don't know what its going to take to keep them focused on the problems in front of them.-
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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It's not about extracting a pound of flesh. It's about "no man in this country being above the law" If they did nothing illegal, then they have nothing to worry about then, do they? It always brings out indignation, and understandably so, when someone tries to thwart our laws in this country. Could you or I, ignore a subpoena without consequence? NO. Why would you want your elected officials and aides to have that right? And if he needs to discuss classified information, I'm sure they can find the appropiate members of Congress that have the right security clearances. So that's a non-issue.
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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If we went over everyone's taxes in Washington and jailed everyone, we wouldn't have a Congress or Senate. Why have you jumped on the bandwagon with those that have a separate agenda and don't want to talk about the subject of the story? He paid the fines and penalties. Move on. We need to find out if a crime has been committed here. Why are you trying to change the subject?
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I'll go out on a limb and say it's because there is no evidence suggesting that he committed a fraud. I realize that you're easily befuddled by the nuances of our legal system Klarissa but it might help if you keep in mind that just because you don't like Democrats doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try to understand the concept of logic and reasoning. I'm here for you, if you ever want to talk, though.
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Hhussk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"short answer? no, he shouldn't. clearly he holds congress in contempt. ;-) as i do."
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--No, the short answer is that you're not focusing on the topic--KARL ROVE--because you know you can't defend his actions.
"seriously. this subpoena supports my fear of the democratic style of leadership. they had no plan in 2006 except to run "investigations."
--And all of your posts support my belief that Republicans lose more power with every election because, like you, they arrogantly believe our laws don't apply to them and that if they can simply change the subject (by point to something a Democrat has gotten nabbed for) they won't have to explain how they're justified in being corrupt as well.
Your attitude is typical of the average neocon. Like your new heroine Sarah Palin, you cons don't want to address the subject at hand so you think it's acceptable to just talk about whatever you damn well please.
Worse, you either deny or you don't know or even care why the GOP no longer has subpoena power--the fact that you did NO oversight for six years. No That would mean taking an honest look at yourself and those you support. It's better to keep telling yourself that you're ok, it's the rest of the world that has the problem. You have no clue that it's that very sociopathic belief system that is the reason the con movement is dying a sad, slow, disgraceful death. Sad. -
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Beau789010 months, 3 weeks ago
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Yes beavith, Rove does hold Congress in contempt. And contempt of Congress is a crime in itself. If you're subpoenaed, you must go, regardless of whether you respect that subpoena.
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Meanwhile, let me ask you this: Did you support the four-year-long fishing expedition conducted by the Republican-led Congress against Bill Clinton?
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Okay, the above was supposed to post under beavith1's above.
Now, Hhussk:
You can't possibly be serious about the "Democratic solution to those who voice disagreement being to try to put them in jail.
Where do you think they might have learned that? Were you born yesterday?
Where were you when Republicans were launching investigation after investigation into everything ever done by the Clintons, eventually leading to impeachment over something that would never even have taken place if it hadn't been for those investigations? -
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Charlson10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Clearly, members of this government (and its supporters) are trying to target specific people...Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Karl Rove, The Bush Administration et. al., in an attempt to remove free speech."
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Quote from the hysterical right. Free speech my ass! No one wants to deny freedom of speech, only want to prosecute those guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors.-
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Not surprisingly, you're more concerned about the GOP when clearly the liberals are in the majority."
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--Oops. Sorry about that. For some strange reason (maybe the story title...who knows?) I was under the impression that the subject was Karl Rove and the Bush administration. But I might've totally misread that.
"And yet, here you are whining about what the GOP is going to say when all your policies fail."
--I didn't mean to whine. I've just been concerned that Republicans who were very much in favor of enforcing the letter of the law during Clinton's administration haven't been nearly as enthusiastic (particularly after they lost subpoena power) when they're the ones being investigated. During the Justice Department hearings, right wingers insisted the investigations would go nowhere and that there was no evidence corruption. After several people resigned their positions there--what did I hear from right wingers? Dead silence...
"You, and liberals like you, need to spend more time trying to come up with solutions. If you were ever to succeed, more people would come on board with your agenda."
--Thanks for the friendly advice but I fear we've drifted off topic again. Shall I take this to mean you don't want to talk about Republicans who believe they are above the law and can ignore subpoenas? -
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Tangent00110 months, 3 weeks ago
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"You, and liberals like you, need to spend more time trying to come up with solutions. If you were ever to succeed, more people would come on board with your agenda."
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That's BS! People like Limbaugh want liberal policies to fail. And rightly so. If liberals succeed, there goes any hope for conservatives regaining Congress or the White House. Neo-con 'voodoo' economics, international interventionism, and government intrusion have stained rational Republicanism.
Liberals ARE proposing solutions: strengthen the middle class by priming the economy at the bottom, rather than the top. That sort of philosophy sticks in the craw of Neo-conservatives.-
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beavith110 months, 3 weeks ago
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see Limbaugh's editorial in today's WSJ.
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its not a 'hope to fail' policy. its an idea. that's right, tho, the dems won. their ideas are the only ones that matter.
then you say:
"Liberals ARE proposing solutions: strengthen the middle class by priming the economy at the bottom, rather than the top. That sort of philosophy sticks in the craw of Neo-conservatives."
what does priming the economy at the bottom mean? hint: that's nonsense. the economy is the WHOLE economy, not some version of classwarfarespeak.-
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Beau789010 months, 3 weeks ago
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"the economy is the WHOLE economy, not some version of classwarfarespeak."
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The WHOLE economy can't be primed from the top either. We've seen over the past 30 years that "supply-side economics" doesn't work. You may want to take a look at this excellent article about that very subject:
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/01/28/how-the-... -
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"its not a 'hope to fail' policy. its an idea. that's right, tho, the dems won. their ideas are the only ones that matter."
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--Here is one of many areas in which right wingers are in serious denial or have severely flawed logic and reasoning. Yes, Obama won. In fact, he won by a significant margin. What you seem to forget is that you LOST. America REJECTED McCain and Palin (and anything else that reminded them of Bush) and Republicans LOST even more representation in Congress than you did in '06. Tom Davis and Chuck Hagel have the guts to tell you that America hates you because you suck and that's not the response you want to hear so you turn on FOX and let them tell you that you lost "because of the economy." Newsflash--America thought you sucked LONG before the economy tanked. In fact one of the reasons we think you suck even more now is because you sat back and repeatedly lied that all was going great when we were headed towards a cliff.
Cons also forget that Obama didn't get elected by appealing only to MoveOn.org and ACORN. Do I have to remind you people that Bush left office with a 22% approval rating? Exactly, a lot of Republicans and Independents thought the GOP sucked over the last 8 years as well. You SUCK. That's the reality. Pretend you're infallible and everyone else is flawed all you want but don't expect Americans to embrace lying, bigoted, blockheads who have tax cuts perpetually on their unbelievably tiny brains. Take responsibility for your failure and poor judgement.
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fiftynineComment removed: Hard Banned
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Charlson10 months, 3 weeks ago
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"It more ironic that the Democrat and liberal solution to people who voice disagreement is to try and throw them in jail..."
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--Well, you seemed to be more than happy supporting an administration that was more than willing to imprison indefinitely and even torture people who voiced "disagreement" with them--for the last 8 years. So I guess you're not always opposed to throwing people in jail.
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Beau789010 months, 3 weeks ago
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Hhussk:
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You're falling prey to the same fallacy voiced by Endoscopy above.
The point of an investigation is to find out whether laws have been broken, and to gather evidence if they have.
Refusing to comply with an investigation is commonly known as obstruction of justice.
By the way, the reason given for asserting executive privilege in the first place was that having members of the White House staff testify would interfere with their ability to do their White House jobs effectively. In case you haven't kept up: Rove no longer HAS that job.
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Hhussk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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And they say there is no left-wing bias...
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It is no coincidence that there has been very little attention on the Secretary of Treasury confirmation and the 800 billion+ bailout bill vote last night in the House. Clearly, the majority of people here on propeller.com are more concerned about arresting Karl Rove than the pork-infested bill about to hit our economy.
Karl Rove will ignore this subpoena. It's a simple as that. He's done it before and the challenge is still in the courts.
Clearly, members of this government (and its supporters) are trying to target specific people...Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Karl Rove, The Bush Administration et. al., in an attempt to remove free speech.
According to classical communism, the first method of doctrine insertion is to remove the free thinkers from society. Once they are gone, freedom of speech is gone as well.
You accused the Bush administration of removing liberty, but yet, here is the government you support doing that very thing.-
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Let's get the testifying going and we will see. Both the former President and Vice president admitted using torture. Is that specific enough for you? The World court already feels they have enough evidence to charge Rumsfeld with war crimes.
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Thank God for the world court, or many world criminals would still be on the loose. We are part of this world, believe it or not. When we make precedents by breaking international laws, then what's to stop other countries from doing it?
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Tangent00110 months, 3 weeks ago
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There is evidence the firings in the Justice Department were inappropriate and politically motivated. White House staffers, including Rove exchanged documents using RNC and other private email servers, in violation of the Presidential Records Act. There is evidence Rove exerted inappropriate influence during the prosecution of Don Siegelman.
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"i couldn't give a fig what the world court says, until/unless they protect our constittutional rights."
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--We get that you feel you shouldn't be inconvenienced by laws and rules like everyone else. We already know that. That's why Republicans aren't running our country anymore. You're only for following the law when it serves your interest and it's important to punish people like Karl Rove who thinks he can get away with behavior born of that mindset.
Anyway, even though there are still delusional cons who will insist that Rove is being treated unfairly, perhaps some will think twice about engaging in illegal activity and then hiding under the President's desk to do who knows what to escape prosecution. That's *if* Republicans ever see the inside of the Oval Office again. -
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capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user15 Replies
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Red Herrings and strawmen. Stick to the subject. This guy Rove snubbed a subpoena from the House Judiciary committee and Congress. I think that he should stand there and take his medicine now. Enough of the deflection tactics, they aren't working. People want to know what he knew about these attorney firings and when he knew it.
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djn3nunez310 months, 3 weeks ago
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Of course it was political that is why the President gets to pick who he wants to serve in these positions
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And who was it who appointed these attorneys in the first place?
Furthermore, the allegations were that some of the attorneys were targeted for dismissal to impede investigations of Republican politicians or that some were targeted for their failure to initiate investigations that would damage Democratic politicians or hamper Democratic-leaning voters. -
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Not one story on the front page about the MASSIVE spending bill disguised as "stimulus" A MASSIVE fraud is taking place right in front of all Americans and the big story on propeller is President Bush fired 9 attorneys that were serving at the pleasure of the President."
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--Hehehe...You funny, cape. It's as simple as that, huh? The Attorney General and several of his subordinates resigned their government jobs which paid reeeeeeeeally well--this despite the fact that, according to you, everything they did was 100% above board. That's usually what people do when they have done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide, right, cape? Where does Gonzo work now, cape? How's he paying his bills since he resigned (even though he did nothing wrong...yep)? He's STILL looking for work, cape? He quit TWO years ago and he still hasn't found a job. And why's that, cape? Because unlike Condi, he and Scooter pie totally sucked at lying convingly. Condi had her cushy new gig at Phillip Morris set up right after she finished lying through her teeth for Bush during the 9/11 hearings. You don't know what you're talking about, cape but I refuse to believe you're that poorly educated that you don't know the story is way more complicated than that. Get serious.
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Skeptic10 months, 3 weeks ago
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This is an issue that should be settled by the Court. And if it does not cover extending privilege beyond the term of office, persons being subpoenaed can always cite fifth amendment rights.
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For that matter, I would like to see an investigation of congressional advisors, particularly those of Frank, Dodd and Leahy, by the Executive branch. Then listen to the screams from the left.-
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djn3nunez310 months, 3 weeks ago
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Executive privilage is going to be hard to argue when the current executive denies the privilage to you. Yes it will be decied in court.
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Of course the court of public opinion was determinied on Nov. 4th and I think we all know how well that turned out for the Bush Administration and the Republcans. -
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"That's the point, Karl Rove's first subpoena challenge is still in court and hasn't gone through the legal process. Conyers is doing this for his own reasons."
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Bush is no longer in office so what's not to get about issuing another subpoena based on the change in circumstances? Or are your panties just twisted because you didn't realize Democrats wouldn't just sit back and let Bush criminals try to run out the clock while they spent all the loot they stole from taxpayers?
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obama-watchComment removed: Hard Banned15 Replies
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obama-watchComment removed: Hard Banned17 Replies
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antibrainwasher10 months, 3 weeks ago
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listen to jd, a rovian lamebaughian lemming spinless repug incapable of any thought outside of blind loyality to the racist neocon fascism party of ignorance and religious supersitition.
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Caribu Barbie, Rove, and jd, all the same, bunch of self centered unscrupulous hyenas out for themselves and to hell with the country.
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dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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ANd we have a new theme for the Bush Administration....Men Working on the Chain Gang. I do find it humorous that the right wing wacks are out shouting freedom of speech when this has absolutely nothing to do with freedom of speech. Slander and distortion come to mind but then when its time for accountability the right always seems to whine and cry about being picked on.
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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With the Reichstag burning the the allied forces circling for the kill, the SS still held the trials of those accused of trying to kill Hitler. It's good to see our Congress wasting time doing almost the same thing. They're planning to put over a trillion dollars on credit cards yet they're worried about Rove? This is a total waste of time and should be dumped, he and Bush are history. Is the hate for Bush so great or the fact that they still don't know what to do when they have all of the power. Senate, House and the Presidency is their hands. Don't they know what or how to do anything?
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I don't want to upset you but in case you weren't aware, she claims to be or to have once been an "educator." Since I learned that, a chill runs through me every time I read one of her posts. I used to only get that feeling when I had food poisoning and would feel overwhelmed by nausea or when reading horror novels. I just wish she hadn't told me that... ;-(
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Not quite sure how that's comparable to anything Obama has done (though I appreciate that you'd love for the situation to be as simple as that). If as was true for Bush, Obama is believed to have lied and deceived his way into a war costing our country multiple trillions of dollars, then maybe we can talk. Until then, get serious, lay off the koolaid and learn how to think beyond the level of a 2nd grader. Thanks.
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Tangent00110 months, 3 weeks ago
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Every President builds their Justice Department from scratch. Nobody is arguing that. The mid-term firings were highly unusual, and it appears the Justice Department was being used by Rove specifically as a partisan tool to bring down Democrat politicians and organizations. Again, Rove seems to have had 'undue influence' over both personnel and prosecution decisions. That's a no-no.
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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Steve,
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The positions this whole thing deal with are politically appointed. Agree with the President and his team, you keep your job. Fail to follow through and you will be replaced. What part of "at will" do you not understand. Clinton fired everyone when he came to office. Barry has done the same, unless they resigned, which is customary. This is a whole lot smoke. I suspect it's because their bail out is nothing more than a very partisan porking of the taxpayers. Again.-
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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First, he's protected by Executive Privilege as a member of the Bush staff. Like a lawyer, which he is, he can't be made to testify. Here is another great example of what you guys could do but of course won't. Amend the Constitution and actually define what was meant by EP. But again, I suspect you won't. The Dem presidents like to be able to hide behind the loose definition as does the GOP team.
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But again, you want to change this go for it. I can't wait to hear Barry and his Czars explain why he needs Czars and cabinet members to do the same jobs. That will be a hearing in the future, if things continue so well. -
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StevieGee10 months, 3 weeks ago
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If, as you say, this is a whole lot of smoke, then your boy Rove should come out of this ok. If defending our Constitution is a waste of time to you I stand by my opinion that you are a non-patriotic, partisan, shill. Democracy is a messy business and I am ready to bask in all of it's mucky glory.
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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So Alberto Gonzales and the parade of others at Justice Department resigned their jobs because none of them did anything improper. Right, BB? They quit their jobs because that's what people do when they're innocent of wrongdoing. ;-P
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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proto, we care WAY the hell more than you cons cared about wasting money when you went after Bill Clinton so don't even *try* to get away with that line of horsesh*t. You people are delusional, lying hypocrites who live for tax cuts.
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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The laws in this country are important. Just because it's not a hot priority on your plate right now does nothing to minimize it's importance. I didn't hear a peep from Republicans when 12 billion a month was going out every month to rebuild "Democracy, freedom, and infrastructure" in foreign countries. But when justice, Democracy, and freedom are asked for in this country it falls on deaf and dumb ears with Republicans. It is never to much to ask for justice in a country ruled by laws and constitution. If this was Rahm Emmanuel being subpoenaed, I'd like to see how fast your opinion changed on this issue.
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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Well that's certainly a more tangible investment than many of the House and Senate's meetings. I don't care who took what sports enhancing drugs, that shouldn't be something they worry about, MLB should. They're holding hearings about the possibility of a college super bowl. Huh? That's a question for the Senate or House? It's time to end this crap and get to work. You guys are in charge. Find actual solutions such as lowering taxes, increasing jobs, and helping business grow. With good business, follows good jobs.
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JEBUS0810 months, 3 weeks ago
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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It was time to get to work on those things a long time ago. (Say about the year 2000) What's the hold up now? All the Republicans have made a concerted effort to block legislation. They don't want any bills passing unless it conforms to their idea. Though the American public already voted most of them out. They continue to obstruct the will of the people and hold on to their own hawkish desires and ideologies.
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jimdoze10 months, 3 weeks ago
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tsk, tsk... "lowering taxes"...????
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OMG... Bite your lip, BB64, and, may the demogods smite you into submission. This is a new world... the government helps businesses grow and the economy to increase jobs by raising taxes, you fool!!
It is written and so it must be! -
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Beau789010 months, 3 weeks ago
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BB64:
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Rove's subpoena has nothing to do with steroids. (Obviously...one only has to look at the man to see he's not taking them.) Nice try at changing the subject, though.
Rove's subpoena has to do with investigating possible criminal activity by the executive branch of government. Is there a better use of Congressional investigative power than that? -
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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If Libby did nothing, then why didn't Bush pardon him? I think Libby will one day realize what happened to him and will start singing like a canary. Then you guys will really be wishing for the good old days. You're telling us, the American people, not to even ask about what happened. That's an extremely arrogant position to take. I say again if there is no crime, there will be no punishment. And if I see this being an unjust hearing then i will speak up for Rove. It should be a fair hearing.
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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What are your actual charges. Please list them and I will personally hand them to the Attorney General of Wisconsin tonight. I'm having dinner with the GOP of Wisconsin. So list them.
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This is little more than a fishing expedition. No crimes were committed but maybe you can cross examine them for 15 hours and get them to mix things up. It worked for Mr. Libby it might work again.-
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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Wonderful if he does he can stand around the May Pole and sing Kum Bi Ya with you, I really don't care. My post was pretty clear. Where are the charges? I am having dinner with an attorney general of a state. List them here and I will personally deliver them.
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As to Scooter, I think he should have been pardoned. If you actually read the whole list of charges, it's a scam. Especially Plame. Here's another thing you can hold hearings on. Where did the CIA come up with report after report of Saddam having nukes. They first reported this to Bush 41 and the Clinton Gore team talked about it in many of their election ads. Where is all of the money the CIA used to build those reports? How could they miss this one. Better yet, how could they make so many mistake over the last 50 years. They missed the fall of the USSR, Berlin Wall and the German reunification. They missed the fall of the Shah and a bunch of other allies of the US. The CIA has been a poor excuse over the years, that's why the NSA and military have been increasing their budgets for intel. Why not ask them?-
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jovial10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I agree with you on one thing. The Plame case should be reopened. You don't have to say anything to your State attorney general. This will play out without his input.
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'Conyers has released information he believes implicates Rove in the prosecution and conviction of Siegelman on corruption charges for political reasons. Rove has been accused of hatching a plan to prosecute Siegelman because he didn't back down from contesting the 2001 gubernatorial election results that handed the office to Republican Bob Riley." -
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"It's good to see our Congress wasting time doing almost the same thing."
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--But if you hadn't wasted time raking Clinton over the coals, you wouldn't now in a position to bitch about wasting time prosecuting Bush's appointees (vs cleaning up the horrific messes he left behind. I guess that never crosses a con's tragically small mind. ;-( -
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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This is little more than a fishing trip. I'd rather learn why we haven't seen Senate hearings on the banking scandal. I'd rather see Al Gore brought before them and asked for his proof of global warming. I'd rather see hearing explaining how only 12 cent of every dollar in the bailout would be enough to cure all of the problems. I'd like to learn why they feel they should spend our money instead of us. I think this is little more than smoke and mirrors because of the banking issues. I think many powerful dems would be caught with their hands in the cash drawer. Again.
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wtagg10 months, 3 weeks ago
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The democrats are solely responsible for the banking crisis? Wow.
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One word - Denial.
You better look closely at both parties, including your beloved past president. His admin wanted the bailout with no strings attached. They got it. The congress is culpable for allowing that to happen. They turned a blind eye to a rape. -
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"I'd rather see Al Gore brought before them and asked for his proof of global warming. "
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--And I demand proof that Bushbot cons (behaving as if they know more than thousands of scientists all over the world) have more education than a 3rd grader, BB. ;-P
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Tangent00110 months, 3 weeks ago
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I tried to use that rationale on a traffic cop once: "Shouldn't you be doing something more important, like looking for murderers and such?" It wasn't very effective.
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I dunno, I think we Americans are a pretty clever bunch of folks and can handle more than one thing at a time. -
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Rove is a failure and an embarrassment just like his buddy Bush. The few sane people in the GOP know this and know he's largely responsible for helping Bush become anything but a uniter. He dragged our country into the sewer and if Bush says he believes Rove will be remembered for all of the destruction he caused our country, he's got you conned, con.
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DarkWizard10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I hope this is the beginning of an effort to bring order to a government out-of-control. I would want to see this regardless of which party was in charge the last 8 years.
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I would also like to see some congressional democrats held accountable for taking impeachment off the table (Pelosi, Conyers, and Reid). Especially, when Conyers has received enough information in investigative reports to pursue this avenue. I would like to see Schumer held accountable for pandering to Wall Street and lobbyists. Frank and Dodd need to be investigated if they indeed had a hand in the foreclosure mess. Of course, what we might find out is that these people were pressured by Bush, Cheney, Rove, Gonzalez, and others within the Republican administration. But, we have the right to know the truth.
It is time to clean house and make government accountable to We The People once again. -
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mesodude10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Exactly...I want to talk about Obama's middle name, the authenticity of his birth certificate, what his brother in Africa eats for breakfast, what some guy preached about 20 years ago, why Michelle has it in for "whitey", what that "fist bump" thing is really all about and why did Obama's plane smell bad? ;-x
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DarkWizard10 months, 3 weeks ago
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mesodude,
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That was excellent, but I'm afraid simonsez won't get the point. What really cracks me up is that he is telling someone (he's a little ambiguous) to "get a life" while he has time to post a retort on "wast[ing] more time on this hollow complaint." Now that's rich!
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THOMNH6210 months, 3 weeks ago
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wow I am really surprised not to see a war and peace long post by Hyperbola here. Oh I forgot he saves that for his anti Israel rant. The democrats should be careful what they wish for remember Charlie Tree and Johny Wong, why should this stop with Rove lets investigate every previous administration. Is the new att gen going to be able to translate the law to his needs for every new admin.
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