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Posted by: Goppy 10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Goppy10 months, 4 weeks ago
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jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago
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jovial10 months, 4 weeks ago
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jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago
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I condemn torture and I rebuke all those who were involved and knew.
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In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
"The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.
Yet long before "waterboarding" entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge.
With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), as well as Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan).
Individual lawmakers' recollections of the early briefings varied dramatically, but officials present during the meetings described the reaction as mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support. "Among those being briefed, there was a pretty full understanding of what the CIA was doing," said Goss, who chaired the House intelligence committee from 1997 to 2004 and then served as CIA director from 2004 to 2006. "And the reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement."-

jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Jovial, quit trying to put words in my mouth. I never claimed to be bipartisan. I know you are trying to paint me into a corner. But, I have no reason to go into that corner. I did not condemn "every democrat I could think of". Again, you have tried to put words in my mouth. You come from a world that fervently hoped that this issue would somehow de-legitimize Bush and Cheney. Quite simply, it didn't and it doesn't.
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jovial10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Nice sidestep, but you didn't answer the question as it pertains to Bush and Cheney.You said this about 2 months ago according to jovial's wayback machine...
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"Of course, I have not "tried to tear down our Democracy with illegal torture and massive theft. Nor has the current administration." Bush was President at that time. Continue explaining.-

jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago
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I repeat, "Of course, I have not "tried to tear down our Democracy with illegal torture and massive theft. Nor has the current administration."
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If you really, in your heart, think that Bush and Cheney tried to tear down our Democracy in any way, Jovial, you are truly being silly in my estimation. Frankly, I think your sense of "moral outrage" is primarily political in its motivation.
Beyond that, I am at a loss as to what you are fishing for.-

jovial10 months, 4 weeks ago
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I don't like people claiming to be objective and bipartisan when they are saying something else when they are in a different forum. You said the administration was not guilty of torture in one forum, and now you're trying to justify it by saying Pelosi approved of it. Then you say you condemn it, but you stop short of condemning Bush and Cheney. You trot out every Democrat that you can think of and condemn only those people. It's hypocritical, but it's what i come to expect.
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jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago
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If, in 2003, you were being scared out of your wits by someone talking of "Iraqi missiles pointed at our country", Jovial, you are sillier than I thought.
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When was the last time you heard Rush Limbaugh or Fox News say anything that i have said here. You haven't. So I'd suggest you be a little more careful about the brush you paint with.-
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FrauBlucherComment removed: Retracted by user2 Replies
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Endoscopy10 months, 4 weeks ago
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Poor jovial. What was permitted is not defined as torture. If you notice Obama didn't change anything. He signed a presidential order that on the surface says it but on closer inspection only applies to Gitmo where it these things never took place. Oh Great Obama does it again.
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dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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ROFLMAO, Ill help you do something called "research", go to google, (www.google.com in case you are truly lost) enter waterboarding torture. You can have your pick of over 796,000 articles that talk about it. Be clueless is one thing continually proclaiming it for all to see is another.
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