« Back to story "Petraeus versus the President?"

Story Comments

Posted by: Goppy 10 months, 4 weeks ago

This page is a permanent archive of the comment below and its replies.
To view this comment in the context of the full discussion for the story, use this link.

All Comments Share Story Report

  • 94%
    Goppy10 months, 4 weeks ago

    This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

    When you start condemning TORTURE, jimdoze ... THEN you can pretend to understand "Moral Vacancy."

    Okay?

    (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 5) (recursion depth : 1) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
    Reply

    27 Replies

    loading loading ...
    • 23%
      jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago

      This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

      I condemn torture, Goppy.
      Do you have any more gotchas for me?

      (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 6) (recursion depth : 2) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
      Reply

      26 Replies

      loading loading ...
      • 94%
        jovial10 months, 4 weeks ago

        This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

        I got one for ya, Jimmy. Did Bush and Cheney condone torture? Yes or No? If you answer yes, doesn't that mean you also have to condemn them for it. If you answer no, then why did they both admit to it?

        (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 7) (recursion depth : 3) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
        Reply

        25 Replies

        loading loading ...
        • 90%
          crespi10 months, 4 weeks ago

          This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

          How about the separation of Church and State or invading countries not attacking us?

          (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 10) (recursion depth : 4) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
          Reply

          7 Replies

          loading loading ...
          • 0%
            jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago

            This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

            I condemn torture and I rebuke all those who were involved and knew.

            In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody. For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk.
            Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill. But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said.
            "The briefer was specifically asked if the methods were tough enough," said a U.S. official who witnessed the exchange.
            Yet long before "waterboarding" entered the public discourse, the CIA gave key legislative overseers about 30 private briefings, some of which included descriptions of that technique and other harsh interrogation methods, according to interviews with multiple U.S. officials with firsthand knowledge.
            With one known exception, no formal objections were raised by the lawmakers briefed about the harsh methods during the two years in which waterboarding was employed, from 2002 to 2003, said Democrats and Republicans with direct knowledge of the matter. The lawmakers who held oversight roles during the period included Pelosi and Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) and Sens. Bob Graham (D-Fla.) and John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), as well as Rep. Porter J. Goss (R-Fla.) and Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan).
            Individual lawmakers' recollections of the early briefings varied dramatically, but officials present during the meetings described the reaction as mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support. "Among those being briefed, there was a pretty full understanding of what the CIA was doing," said Goss, who chaired the House intelligence committee from 1997 to 2004 and then served as CIA director from 2004 to 2006. "And the reaction in the room was not just approval, but encouragement."

            (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 8) (recursion depth : 4) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
            Reply

            10 Replies

            loading loading ...
            • 17%
              jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago

              This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

              Jovial, quit trying to put words in my mouth. I never claimed to be bipartisan. I know you are trying to paint me into a corner. But, I have no reason to go into that corner. I did not condemn "every democrat I could think of". Again, you have tried to put words in my mouth. You come from a world that fervently hoped that this issue would somehow de-legitimize Bush and Cheney. Quite simply, it didn't and it doesn't.

              (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 12) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
              Reply
              loading loading ...
              • 89%
                jovial10 months, 4 weeks ago

                This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                Nice sidestep, but you didn't answer the question as it pertains to Bush and Cheney.You said this about 2 months ago according to jovial's wayback machine...
                "Of course, I have not "tried to tear down our Democracy with illegal torture and massive theft. Nor has the current administration." Bush was President at that time. Continue explaining.

                (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                Reply

                8 Replies

                loading loading ...
                • 17%
                  jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago

                  This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                  I repeat, "Of course, I have not "tried to tear down our Democracy with illegal torture and massive theft. Nor has the current administration."
                  If you really, in your heart, think that Bush and Cheney tried to tear down our Democracy in any way, Jovial, you are truly being silly in my estimation. Frankly, I think your sense of "moral outrage" is primarily political in its motivation.
                  Beyond that, I am at a loss as to what you are fishing for.

                  (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 10) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                  Reply

                  7 Replies

                  loading loading ...
                  • 90%
                    jovial10 months, 4 weeks ago

                    This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                    I don't like people claiming to be objective and bipartisan when they are saying something else when they are in a different forum. You said the administration was not guilty of torture in one forum, and now you're trying to justify it by saying Pelosi approved of it. Then you say you condemn it, but you stop short of condemning Bush and Cheney. You trot out every Democrat that you can think of and condemn only those people. It's hypocritical, but it's what i come to expect.

                    (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 11) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                    Reply

                    6 Replies

                    loading loading ...
                • 25%
                  jimdoze10 months, 4 weeks ago

                  This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                  If, in 2003, you were being scared out of your wits by someone talking of "Iraqi missiles pointed at our country", Jovial, you are sillier than I thought.
                  When was the last time you heard Rush Limbaugh or Fox News say anything that i have said here. You haven't. So I'd suggest you be a little more careful about the brush you paint with.

                  (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 8) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                  Reply

                  8 Replies

                  loading loading ...
                  • 0%
                    Endoscopy10 months, 4 weeks ago

                    This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                    Jovial
                    You are very partisan and not objective. You refuse to allow the fact that the different techniques were not torture as defined by the law of the US. It is torture by far left wing people like you.

                    (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 12) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                    Reply

                    4 Replies

                    loading loading ...
                  • Neutral
                    ADAGUY10 months, 3 weeks ago

                    This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                    "When was the last time you heard Rush Limbaugh or Fox News say anything that i have said here."

                    Who pays any attention to Limbaugh?

                    (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                    Reply
                    loading loading ...
                • 0%
                  Endoscopy10 months, 4 weeks ago

                  This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                  Poor jovial. What was permitted is not defined as torture. If you notice Obama didn't change anything. He signed a presidential order that on the surface says it but on closer inspection only applies to Gitmo where it these things never took place. Oh Great Obama does it again.

                  (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 8) (recursion depth : 4) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                  Reply

                  3 Replies

                  loading loading ...
                  • 100%
                    dunkirk10 months, 4 weeks ago

                    This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                    Pssst waterboarding is defined as torture.

                    (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                    Reply

                    2 Replies

                    loading loading ...
                    • Neutral
                      Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago

                      This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                      Cite the law making it so.

                      (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 10) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                      Reply

                      1 Reply

                      loading loading ...
                      • Neutral
                        dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago

                        This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »

                        ROFLMAO, Ill help you do something called "research", go to google, (www.google.com in case you are truly lost) enter waterboarding torture. You can have your pick of over 796,000 articles that talk about it. Be clueless is one thing continually proclaiming it for all to see is another.

                        (comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 11) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)
                        Reply
                        loading loading ...

            Post Reply

            You are not signed in to Propeller.com. Please sign in to post a reply.

            People Who Liked This Comment (16)

            People Who Didn't Like This Comment (1)