Obama Talks to Sept. 11, USS Cole Families About Guantanamo Prison »
Posted By ybdogsct 10 months, 1 week ago in News
President Obama assured relatives and victims of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and the bombing of the USS Cole that he is keeping an open mind about how to handle the approximately 245 detainees held at the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay.
The President made it clear that his most important responsibility is to keep the American people safe. He explained why he believes that closing Guantanamo will make our nation safer and help ensure that those who are guilty receive swift and certain justice within a legal framework that is durable, and that helps America fight terrorism more effectively around the world.
The exchange left some who were deeply skeptical of the administration's decision to suspend military commissions at Guantanamo Bay satisfied that the president has not yet decided to abolish the current system of prosecuting suspected terrorists.
Read Full Story at washingtonpost.com »
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ADAGUY10 months, 1 week ago
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Goppy10 months, 1 week ago
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Thank you ADAGUY for your intrepidness in finding and posting this.
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I sincerely hope this story makes it to the Front Page.
If there is any fairness on Propeller, this kind of 'Full Disclosure' needs to trump the 'Dis-Information' being employed to such evil intent by others on Propeller.
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Good luck, and thanks again.
You are indeed a Proud American.
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frctm510 months, 1 week ago
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The selective use of the truth is a very effective tactic. Most issues require a context for understanding. Closing Guantanamo is not the equivalent of leniency or letting prisoners go. What this amounts to is an expression of faith in our values and in our legal system which some, in the name of expedience and paranoia, have been all to ready to abandon. I like what Jon Stewart had to say about this on the Daily Show
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." What do our values mean if we can't adhere to them when they are tested? If we abandon our values at the first sign of trouble, they aren't values but hobbies. "
The true patriot is loyal to these first and to any particular party, leader, or government second. Unfortunately on the right, it seems as if the value of partisan loyalty has trumped all others. The willingness to march in lock step with the leadership despite its consequences or conflicts with our principles is deemed greater measure of esteem that the exercise of independent judgment. That is the clearest path to totalitarianism. The moment we cave into peer pressure for the sake of fitting in, we cease to be men and become pawns in a game. -
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kobzikov10 months, 1 week ago
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"The selective use of the truth is a very effective tactic."
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Yep. Presenting only selective information is one of the main pillars of propaganda.
From Wikipedia,
"Propaganda often presents facts selectively (thus lying by omission) to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
The video posted by RedRiverJ had both skewed information as well as emotional appeal in spades. It was a classic propaganda piece, which is hardly surprising seeing how that is the specialty of FOX News.
"Closing Guantanamo is not the equivalent of leniency or letting prisoners go."
The argument in a way reminds me of the warped view that some people have of death penalty debate where they consider anything short of death penalty equivalent to letting criminals go.
"The true patriot is loyal to these first and to any particular party, leader, or government second."
This is a very important point that seems lost on many. There are still millions who delude themselves into thinking that a Party is synonymous with higher ideals or values to the point that they willingly sacrifice themselves on its altar even when the Party turns on them and the values they espouse. -
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Klarissa10 months, 1 week ago
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So now he is hitting the "Pause button" lolol, Pause on the way to closing it within a year - or has he changed his mind agian.
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Obama told the group that he was only hitting the "pause button" when he sought the suspension of proceedings against 21 detainees, including Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the self-proclaimed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks. And he assured the group that he wants the swift prosecution of those responsible for the terrorist attacks and their facilitators. -
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ADAGUY10 months, 1 week ago
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This is not a result of anything done by Obama. Relax, we have created enough terrorists in the last 8 years that you will have no trouble getting to say "I TOLD YOU SO!".
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I assure you, there will always be acts of terrorism. The main question is:
1. How frequent
2. How successful
And
3. Where will they be? -
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Endoscopy10 months, 1 week ago
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The Gitmo prison did not make them terrorists because they were terrorists already. Or are you accusing our troops of just picking people up willie nillie. That is silly if you believe it. These are people that the Geneva convention allows shooting after capture.
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Klarissa10 months, 1 week ago
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11 former Gitmo inmates on Saudi wanted list
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» Most Popular on washingtonpost.com
By PAUL SCHEMM
The Associated Press
Wednesday, February 4, 2009; 3:44 PM
CAIRO -- Saudi Arabia said Wednesday that 11 men released from the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay are now on the kingdom's most-wanted list despite having attended its touted extremist rehabilitation program.
President Barack Obama has signed an executive order closing the detention center at the naval base in Cuba, leaving countries scrambling over what to do with released detainees.
Saudi Arabia and terror experts defended the program for terror suspects, saying it is largely effective. The Pentagon has said it's unlikely to change its policy on prisoner transfers to the kingdom.
Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and home to 15 of the 19 Sept. 11 hijackers, has pursued an aggressive campaign against militants but also sought to rehabilitate those it believes can abandon their violent extremist beliefs and reintegrate into society.
Among the 11 were two Saudis who have emerged as the new leaders of Yemen's branch of al-Qaida. The two appeared in a militant video last month calling for attacks against Arab governments and Western interests. -
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ybdogsct10 months, 1 week ago
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There appears to be some confusion as to why the charges against Abd al Rahim al Nashiri were dropped and whether that means Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri will be released. This thread attempts to address these misconceptions.
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1. Does dropping charges against Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri mean he and the other Guantanamo detainees will be released?
No. He will remain in custody and will be re-charged later.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/06/national...
"Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said Crawford withdrew the charges against al-Nashiri. However, new charges could be brought again later, and al-Nashiri will remain in prison for the time being."
2. Will Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri and the other Guantanamo detainees be tried in U.S. criminal courts?
Not necessarily.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
"Obama told the group that he was only hitting a 3-month 'pause button' when he sought the suspension of proceedings against 21 detainees. And he assured the group that he wants the swift prosecution of those responsible for the terrorist attacks and their facilitators.
The President made it clear that his most important responsibility is to keep the American people safe. He explained why he believes that closing Guantanamo will make our nation safer and help ensure that those who are guilty receive swift and certain justice within a legal framework that is durable, and that helps America fight terrorism more effectively around the world.
Officials have not settled on a legal strategy for prosecution, which could involve reforming the current system of military commissions or, as human rights groups advocate, shifting trials to federal courts or military courts-martial."
3. What did USS Cole and 9/11 survivors who attended the meeting say about the meeting?
Hamilton Peterson
"It was evident he was genuinely conflicted about the best approach," said Hamilton Peterson of Bethesda, who lost his father and stepmother on United Flight 93 and thinks Guantanamo Bay should be kept open. "All of us were impressed with his sincerity and the amount of time he spent with us. There was passion and emotion, but it was enormously respectful. I was extremely satisfied and impressed with his facility with the issues and his genuine commitment to take into consideration the views of family members who want to see Guantanamo rehabilitated, not dispensed with."
Lorie Van Auken
Lorie Van Auken, a leader of September 11th Advocates, a group headed by four New Jersey women who lost their husbands in the attacks, called the meeting "impressive," saying Obama gave detailed answers to their questions and allayed many of their concerns. She said the president did not rule out some form of military commissions in the future and acknowledged shortcomings in dealing with terrorism suspects in regular criminal courts.
Alan Kleinberg
"I think the point was that you have to make sure they have a system in place that can actually work," said Mindy Kleinberg, whose husband, Alan Kleinberg, also died in the World Trade Center. "I think even the people who came to the meeting who wanted to keep it open could understand his point of view."
Kirk Lippold
Kirk S. Lippold, former commanding officer of the USS Cole, which was bombed in Yemen in 2000, emerged from the White House sounding much more open to Obama's decisions than he had earlier. "The most important thing that came out of this for me and for many of the families there was the fact that the president agreed to have an open door," he said outside the White House.
4. Who is Judge Susan Crawford and why did she drop charges against Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri? Is she a liberal Obama appointee legislating from the bench again?
Judge Susan Crawford is the top judge appointed by GW Bush to oversee the trials of Guantanamo Bay appointees.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic...
"Crawford, a retired judge who served as general counsel for the Army during the Reagan administration and as Pentagon inspector general when Dick Cheney was secretary of defense, is the first senior Bush administration official responsible for reviewing practices at Guantanamo to publicly state that a detainee was tortured.
'We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani,' said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. 'His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case' for prosecution." -
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lfergie81210 months, 1 week ago
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Here's how FOX reports the news.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGqPxn7njqM
P.S. Propeller is placing comments with the shotgun procedure I guess. I don't know how this got here. It was a reply to Endo.
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Endoscopy10 months, 1 week ago
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Nobody ever said he could not think. What was said is he has absolutely no experience as an executive whose duty is to set the tone and make thought out decisions.
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An example of foolishness is this closing of Gitmo. That is pap for the superlibs. When you understand what he really said all there is that there is going to be is a study group that will decide what to do and report back in a year. That means absolutely nothing and gets a lot of people either angry or happy. Causes turmoil and no decision has been made. What he should have said is that he is looking into the matter. That gets nobody upset. He is supposed to be the president of everybody not just the superlibs.-
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lfergie81210 months, 1 week ago
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Endoscopy said
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"Nobody ever said he could not think. What was said is he has absolutely no experience as an executive whose duty is to set the tone and make thought out decisions."
Given the job that Bush did with his knowledge of executive experience, I'll take anyone that has a brain over that kind of experience. Really Endo, you should get your head out of your colon.
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Georgia5010 months, 1 week ago
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Beau789010 months, 1 week ago
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Thanks for posting this and for the invite, ybdogsct. It's always good to see the other side of the story (especially when one side omits important details).
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Everyone who wants to see this article get as much attention as the YouTube talking points video currently at the top of the front page can get the word out by inviting their friends to the story and sending it to groups...you can be sure the commenters on that other story will get here, eventually.-
PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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BBcamaro10 months, 1 week ago
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Yeah thats good thinking right off the cuff or wait as you put it "Quick Draw"
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1. Close Getmo in one year I have no idea what we are going to do but close it. No thats not quick draw is it!!!! Yea thats smart thinking.
2 Oh wait he was thinking out his cabinet thats right. whats the total so far 3 picks dropped out because of tax problems and investigations. 1 confirmed even with tax and embezzling problems, and I almost forgot a total of 3 lobbyist's now in his cabinet after he said that would not happen.
Yeah he's a thinker alright. Luckly he has help from people like Nancy Pelosi to help him.
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Spadecaller10 months, 1 week ago
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Some Americans have no idea what to do with a President that thinks. We are used to two hoodlums with six shooters. (Cheney even shot his friend.) We must remember what Quick Draw Cheney and the Great Decider have done to the world and this country. To find an effective balance between preserving constitutional law, international law, as well as protecting our nation from maniacs requires careful thought and great wisdom. It's about time that we have a President that is actually capable of sober thought.
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Georgia5010 months, 1 week ago
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Yet you remain free to explain in detail what facts Fox left out that you feel ought to have been included in their report.
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Of course if that's too burdensome for you, perhaps you can tag-team with Goppy. The other shut-ins never invite him to play Fish so he never has much to do anyway.
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fiftynine10 months, 1 week ago
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"Nobody ever said he could not think. What was said is he has absolutely no experience as an executive whose duty is to set the tone and make thought out decisions."
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Your hero "bushboy" met that criteria ? In your mind probably so and his record has been atrocious.
Maybe being in possession of a real brain (not a cheney or rove) trumps bushboys so called experience.. -
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Endoscopy10 months, 1 week ago
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ROTFLMAO
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"open honest"
This administration will be a new kind of politics.
This administration will be bipartisan.
This bill needs to be passed immediately to stimulate the economy.
All lies.
The politics is the same old style politics. Tax evaders nominated and one is now Secretary of the Treasury. Three Daly machine operators are part of his administration. New kind of politics???
The stimulus bill in the house was done by the Democrat caucus and no amendments were allowed on the floor thus locking the Republicans out of the process. Then Obama did not understand why the Republicans did not vote for the pile of pork that Pelosie and co created. Bipartisanship????
This stimulus package only has 15% at most being spent in the first year. Places in the economy that need the help are not even mentioned in the bill. Stimulus package??? Needed immediately???
OBAMA LIED. This is fun telling the truth about the Democrat president after all of the Bush bashing. Well libs you taught us how.-
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Endoscopy10 months, 1 week ago
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Demonstrate my errors or can you. Tell me where I am wrong. Did Obama say those things or nor. If he did then demonstrate where my assessment is wrong. But of course you can't can you. Live with it libs. Your Great leader lied.
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This is fun. Saying he lied and all they can do is ad hominem attacks. Fun, fun, fun. -
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mesodude10 months, 1 week ago
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"This is fun telling the truth about the Democrat president after all of the Bush bashing. Well libs you taught us how."
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--Endo, no one believes you're here for meaningful discussion so why bother telling us that all you're going to do is post the equivalent of "I hate Obama" for the next 4-8 years? We already knew not to take seriously anything you post a long time ago.. No need to remind us. ;-P -
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wtagg10 months, 1 week ago
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He did talk to the republicans when he had absolutely no need to do so.
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It would have been nice if the past president had bothered. The only time Bush did was to actually lie to them, based upon your apparent definition of the word *lie*. -
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tehranchikComment removed: Spam
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tehranchikComment removed: Spam
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CRYMTYPHON10 months, 1 week ago
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Tehranchik and coffeecake were examples.
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Unless you all wish your comments to be spam-filtered
or scrambled like frogs in a blender in the old joke*
my demands must be met.
Demand 1)
This article must be the top article of the week, since it
is the mirror to the vampire postings accusing the new administration of being soft on terrorism.
Demand 2)
Ybdogsct is the ultimate factuality-based poster and should be featured in the JamesMarcus's WIR, and get a gold star or happy face by his name at least.
Demand 3)
Amnesty for me and I am allowed to have a picture with my name like everyone else.
*what is green and goes 100 mph?-
tehranchikComment removed: Spam
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tehranchikComment removed: Spam
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CHAM10 months, 1 week ago
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Thanks for the invite Ybdog. So far I haven't seen anything on here about how many have been run through Gitmo, how many have been charged in any court or similar venue, and only one comment about whether or not any or how many of the remaining 245 are guilty of anything.
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Some of you may have seen my comments about this very thing over time. And I have posted links to the Senate Report concerning how many of the Gitmo detainees are guilty of anything. I sincerely doubt that the links have been visited and read very often.
But for the record that Senate report of earl;y 2008 or maybe it was late 2007, don't remember, did give these statistics that came from the actual Gitmo records :
93% of the detainees at Gitmo were there because they had been sold to the U S by Northern Alliance Warlords and Pakistani Tribal Leaders for the bounty money offered by the U S. No proof that they were enemy combatants was required.
I believe that 24 of the detainees at that time ( 571) had ever been on a battle field at any time. And all but a few of those 24 had been on the battlefield before 9/11.
At that time only one detainee had ever been tried for anything and his ( An Australian )was a plea bargain that if he would plead guilty he would be given a 9 month sentence and released back to Australia, he took the deal.
Hundreds, possibly over a thousand had been released after years of confinement - with no charges ever being filed.
There were two camps in Gitmo. One for Adults and one for children who had been bought as enemy combatants.
The speculated reason for not bringing charges in public was that the U S would open itself up for war crimes and civil suits since they would be totally unable to prove any complicity on all but a very few of the detainees.
Everyone in the World who wants to know the truth about Gitmo can read that Senate report. Then all this speculation wouldn't be necessary. We could just charge Bush, Cheney, and friends with war crimes and be done with it.
And what is wrong with letting T-chick speak out?-
tehranchikComment removed: Spam
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GWHayduke10 months, 1 week ago
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Mabybe the most telling thing about this meeting is that it actually happened.
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After being snubbed by Bush for eight years, this is the first time a group of survivors has been able to collectively discuss their opinions and feelings with the sitting President about the people who are suspected of destroying their lives.
The Decider, if you will.
The strategy of the decision is not as telling as the message being sent by Obama that he values the opinions of those impacted by his decisions. -
tehranchikComment removed: Spam
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Goppy10 months, 1 week ago
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I have been designated by tehranchik ... (as her intern in charge of posting her comments --- at least on this thread) ... and this is what t-chik has been trying to say...
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"What needs to be remembered is that these poor folk who have lost family members have been bombarded by the MSM for so long....what else are they to believe? I'm glad Obama took such personal time with them. He's definitely given them a whole new perspective.
Liberal biased media indeed!"
Well said, tehranchik!
LOL!!!
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Georgia5010 months, 1 week ago
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Obama: "Hello, friends. I know how much you suffered after losing loved ones, then having Bill Clinton add insult to injury by ignoring the criminals who murdered your family members. Well gee golly damn do I have good news for you! I'm gonna let every single murdering bastard Bush captured FREE! Hey...it's Afercan American History Month...say it with me, "Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty the bastards who murdered your family members are FREE AT LAST!!"
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Memo to my loved ones: Should you survive me as a terrorist victim, you are hereby forbidden to meet with any US official other than to discuss the execution of the perpetrators after summary adjudication in a military tribunal (if outside the US) or after a jury of my peers renders a guilty verdict (if inside the US).
By the way, America haters, did ALL the USS Cole survivors agree to meet with President Git Mo ???
http://terrorismpolitician.blogspot.com/2009/02/wh...
Gee...I guess not. -
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