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Posted By jovial 9 months, 3 weeks ago in ReligionRecently I was involved in a discussion about what has become known as “The Law of Attraction.” It became rather heated. It seems to me that some proponents of this “law” have a tendency to become rather fervent in its defense when its premises are questioned. As so often happens during a verbal interaction, the discussion took directions I never wanted it to go in and logical arguments gave way to emotional examples and anecdotal evidence. Of course, anecdotal evidence presented contrary to “The Law of Attraction” was quickly spun about to fit into the paradigm created by those who worship at the altar of this would be “law.”
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memestryker9 months, 3 weeks ago
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Sounds like prayer and the power of belief ("it is done unto you as you believe"). Part of it is magical thinking, but it can have a positive effect on one's brain: if you can imagine it and believe it, you create certain emotions that cause certain hormones to flow.
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Just a different spin on religion. -
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Radiofreeeuropa9 months, 3 weeks ago
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I believe this is fairly accurate in it's assessment. Basically that often thinking positive thoughts yield positive outcomes etc. but we know from quantum physics that dice indeed are rolled through the universe. This is the true "law", the law of chance and probabilities. The idea of positive thinking is nothing new, it's not a law though. And it has no basis in the physics of reality, not in the sense it is presented philosophically. Yes if you think negative thoughts it has an effect on your health and indeed likely sabotages your efforts. This is not unlike many of the techniques mediocre Sci Fi writer L. Ron Hubbard puts forth in his books (Scientology is based on this). Again though, chance and random are the factors in most philosophic equations that are seldom addressed.
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memestryker9 months, 3 weeks ago
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rfe, and it's also not unlike some of the teachings of Jesus and Buddha. If you think positive thoughts, it sets triggers so you recognize things that will enable you to achieve some goal. You are thus "attracted" to them. In that sense, it's not magical thinking. If I have no way to get to work, if I use what they are calling a "law", I can "program" myself to notice sources of transportation--more like brainstorming than magic.
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The great thing about conversations like this one are that we are finally looking at the nature of belief. Of course, we don't want to leave a vacuum, because it just provides an opening for a different powerful group of elites to seize power. Most of us agree that Maoism is not an improvement over Catholicism or Islam, for example. It's just another ideology created by the powerful to retain the power by the clergy or ideological leaders and ruling class. -
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Radiofreeeuropa9 months, 3 weeks ago
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This is a good assessment. Quantum physics reveals the nature of the universe to be largely inclusive of chance. This is no Law.
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It's merely another way of suggesting that positive thinking can perhaps improve your odds. Frankly this whole thing smacks of L. Ron Hubbard...which is amateur psychology at best.-
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memestryker9 months, 3 weeks ago
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It smacks of religious practice. You just singled out Hubbard because of your own bias. Most Westerners share your bias, and possibly think religious doctrine is more OK if it's ancient and uses tithing instead of the cost model used by Hubbard's followers.
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They all are organized religion to me.
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Spadecaller9 months, 3 weeks ago
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On more than one occasion I have had someone "cite" me the law of attraction. For me, these experiences are not ones that would attract me to the concept, which in my opinion, manipulates the truth by blaming all things on individual thought. It smarts of an arrogance that is void of the complexities of living in a world of both finite and infinite influences. Usually frightened people seeking control of their lives cling to this belief like a baby to its favorite blanket.
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And, on more times than I care to mention, I have been told by devotees to this occultist belief that those of us who have inherited or contracted illnesses such as diabetes, cancer, heart disease, hypercholesterolemia, multiple sclerosis, and a myriad of other diseases and conditions, are in fact responsible for "attracting" their occurrences and are "unconsciously" accountable for their recovery or lack of recovery, as well.
For that matter, I could than blame several generations of men in my family for failing to recover from their heart attacks and I should advise my doctors to stop asking me questions about my family history, because I am the sole maker of my fate and for the trouble that I have caused my dear loved ones, I should not deserve the excuse of inheriting a gene that would absolve me of the guilt that I need to add to my infirmity. (End of Sarcasm.)
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memestryker9 months, 3 weeks ago
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SC, you are so right on. So many people have been told they created their hereditary and congenital diseases through their thinking.
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I notice this among the new breed who are turning to another ancient doctrine--that of reincarnation. They believe their action in a previous life resulted in their having conditions in this life that present so-called "lessons" they must learn. I've heard them say "you get to do it over until you get it right."
I notice the medical community has always taken the approach that anything they don't understand is "in your head" or the result of "stress." Or whatever was the magic of the day, bit it cutting or leeches.
I think there is something to learn and glean from what is being called the law of attraction, but I also think that people then go out on a limb that leads them to magical thinking. -
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jovial9 months, 3 weeks ago
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It's such a "fit all" theory this Law of attraction, that it's unprovable. What comes to mind is the conservative position that Bush kept us safe and we haven't been attacked again on U.S. soil. Is that a fact in the conservative mind set, because they wanted that to be the official outcome? If a man stood in the middle of a coliseum with 80000 people concentrating on only one thing and that thing was for that man to have a heart attack and die. Would he eventually have a heart attack and die? Or could his own positive outlook on life supercede the will of the majority and allow him to life a full life? Religion can reinforce this law. Let's take for example a drug addict, thief, and a gambler, one day has a revelation to join a particular Religion. Through the scriptures of his newfound religion, it teaches him to live a more postiive life. He eventually becomes the pastor of his own church and becomes a very successful person. Could that person say by accepting this new way of life he attracted these benefits, or could he still have done the same thing by disassociating himself with nefarious life he had on his own and still achieved the same successes. Is it one's fate, or is it just some random set of details that determine these outcomes? I see how this could be a difficult problem to solve.
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jimdoze9 months, 3 weeks ago
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"What comes to mind is the conservative position that Bush kept us safe and we haven't been attacked again on U.S. soil. Is that a fact in the conservative mind set...?
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This statement and question smacks of the mindset that so readily comes to the conclusion that because a plane didn't crash, it had nothing to do with the original design, engineering, construction and particularly the ongoing maintenance of the plane... and that all that zealous attention to detail was a mis-directed waste of time and effort. This is an all too common human trait... that, when it comes to issues of national security, is more prevalently found amongst the pacifist left in in this country. -
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jovial9 months, 3 weeks ago
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Hi Jimmy,
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Exactly, my point. Twist it any way you want. Liberals are also blamed for wanting Bush to fail in Iraq and that's why it became a reality. I believe it was the actions of the administration itself that brought the failure, even though they always put a positive spin on it.-
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jimdoze9 months, 3 weeks ago
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Your a priori assumption that Iraq has been a failure is further evidence of how far out of touch with reality you are. That Iraq has not become the catalytic cauldron that would have touched off world war is evidence enough of major success. That it might yet become a voluntarily integrated state entity that works through recognizable mechanisms of democratic participation rather than under a despotic strongman would be a resounding success... and a sharp stick in the eye of most of the blatherers gathered on this site. It is going to take some time before this will become fully and safely evident. It took nearly a half a century before we could breathe easily about our similar efforts at calming and integrating fratricidal Europe. Of course, our good efforts can yet be short-circuited by withdrawing all combat forces from Iraq within 16 months.
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wtagg9 months, 3 weeks ago
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"That Iraq has not become the catalytic cauldron that would have touched off world war is evidence enough of major success."
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Oddly enough, this could have been accomplished by doing nothing in Iraq in 2003.
"Of course, our good efforts can yet be short-circuited by withdrawing all combat forces from Iraq within 16 months."
You are stating that it is not yet a success. So, 6 years and a estimated cost of 4000 + dead, tens of thousands of casualties, and 1 trillion dollars, if conservative is efficient and liberal is excess, please describe which approach this was to the problem.
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Ciera-Marie9 months, 3 weeks ago
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Jovial I respectfully disagree with you. I can't explain how it's happened, but it has in my life. I also know it's happened for a friend and her husband. I know it's powerful and I also know I've experienced at times in my life not just the positives of law of attraction but the negative. I know for me and my friends it works. I know it's not for everyone.
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jovial9 months, 3 weeks ago
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I respect your beliefs. It just seems really convenient to be able to attribute events to things that so generally fit so many different situations. Especially when one can't really prove or disprove that whatever happened was a direct result of what one did. ie. A person wins the lottery, but that person is the most negative, grumpy, person that anyone could ever know.People that have religious revelations and admit that their life has changed, could they have attained the same positive changes without it? Maybe, maybe not. It's important that people change their attitude and their way of looking at things. A positive attitude does create positive results in some cases, but it changes our perspective a swell. That plays into adjusting our outlook and our expectations.
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memestryker9 months, 3 weeks ago
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Jovial,
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I agree that changing perspective is an outcome. This is what Lifespring, Insight, est, and similar trainings allowed people to experience. They put people in a situation where they were able to see different realities instead of just accepting their defaults and responding to the world in the same way.
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memestryker9 months, 3 weeks ago
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CM, the fact is, it works as long as one doesn't build in magical thinking. If it didn't work, everyone from Jesus to Buddha to Hubbard to Matthew Fox wouldn't have built it into their teaching and people wouldn't swear by it.
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I see it in part as programming the mind to recognize opportunity. There may be something else to it as well--we don't know about what happens to brain waves, etc. I keep an open mind, so maybe there is something else going on. I suspect a lot of the resurfacing interest in reincarnation doctrine is based on something, but that something is not reincarnation. It's just being explained as reincarnation because, like most other religious beliefs, people really want to believe it, and there are some unanswered questions that match up with that desire.-
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wtagg9 months, 3 weeks ago
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I see it as simply success breeds success. More often than not, if you believe you will fail in a task or problem, you will not really actively pursue a solution. You will not attempt to open new doors or work hard to obtain the results because there is no rationale to do so because you believe you are destined to fail.
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When I run into a roadblock, I change direction and focus. Sometimes this means doing a separate task altogether to find some success. Once I find some success (and it could be completely unrelated to the primary task at hand), I then take a look at the original problem. I often find that this leads to finding a solution.
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rakeshshama9 months, 3 weeks ago
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http://tutorialfeed.blogspot.com
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ELISHEVA19 months, 3 weeks ago
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'I' think none of us actually know anything at this low level and that our opinions are just that - opinions. What I know is that I know nothing. Anything that appears magical or unexplainable is merely ignorance regarding a truth that can only be attained from a higher level.
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Unfortunately, with the massive ego and fear mongering that our collective existence is steeped in we cannot progress in the same manner as we have been for the last 2000 years. We have become like a bunch of 2 year olds yelling 'we are right!' at each other in different languages.
Hopefully we'll realize that we need each other to co-operate, together before we can address the global mess we are in. It's so funny, I read the article and all these posts and collectively they add up to a version of 'the law of attraction...'
Let's get over ourselves before we go extinct and have to do it all again... If we know we don't have all the pieces how can we prove anything 'true?' I think our best bet is to put all our effort and brain power into the biggest structure that we have - Nature. It is the only thing we have not tried to study seriously, and it likely is the only teacher that can help us. -
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rimbaud9 months, 3 weeks ago
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How about we let our economy fail and bring up from those ashes, with positive thinking, a new economy that does not reward failure? How about we let the forests back into the areas they were pushed out of and let Nature, not technology, solve our global devastation?
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CRYMTYPHON9 months, 3 weeks ago
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Early in WWII, Princeton Theological Seminary
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wanted to join the war effort; they produced a study showing prayer led to more accurate firing and fewer casualties.
The study attracted the attention of the Army, who conducted an experiment April 31, 1942 which became known as the P-Cubed Test.
Scientists lined up 100 volunteers who were firm believers in Prayer, Positive thinking, or Pyramids.
They then took 1 machine gun loaded with 99 rounds and applied it liberaly across the field.
The recording (classified but on the web) shows the survivor gazing at the bodies to his left and right; then shouting out the classic conclusion: 'See? it works!'. -
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thoughtforsale9 months, 3 weeks ago
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One aspect I find problematic about the "law of attraction" is that it might make you feel guilty for everything that doesn´t work in your life. I am very much of the opinion that everyone is responsible for his or her life, but there are things which are out of our reach and which we have to hand on to a higher power. I think, sometimes, what we call "law of attraction", is in fact a mixture of psychological and physical aspects that cause a higher likeliness of some events to happen.
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tadair9199 months, 3 weeks ago
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damn propeller fpr propping this story. i guess there is a lot of frustration from people who can't accept that they make their reality and can actually influence the future.
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that's too powerful.
oh well, better leave it up to christ or whatever.... -
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RickyDawkins9 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Why people believe strange things"
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T_jwq9ph8k -
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