Stimulus bill narrowly survives Senate test vote »
Posted By STONERS 9 months ago in Business & FinanceAn $838 billion economic stimulus bill backed by the White House narrowly advanced in the Senate on Monday over strong Republican opposition, and Democratic leaders vowed to deliver the emergency legislation for President Barack Obama's signature within a few days.
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STONERS9 months ago
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"The vote was 61-36, one more than the 60 needed to move the measure toward Senate passage on Tuesday. That in turn, will set the stage for possibly contentious negotiations with the House on a final compromise on legislation the president says is desperately needed to tackle the worst economic crisis in more than a generation."
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myfairlady9 months ago
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nostalgia9 months ago
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That is exactly what is amazing!
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Why the big push to sell this boondoggle - Obama had a town hall meeting in IN yesterday, a prime time news conference last evening and another town hall meeting scheduled for FL
What is making the Democrats so nervous about this - are they just looking for political cover when this doesn't work? -
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nostalgia9 months ago
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The health care provisions are even more ominous than anyone really knew
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And we need to kill of those greedy seniors who are sucking the health care system dry
Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan
Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head HHS
Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).
One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”
New Penalties
Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)
What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.
The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs.
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.
Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).
If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039=co...
So much for the US becoming a leader in health care - new technology is TOO expensive
The provisions were stuck into the Senate version late Saturday night. Senators are just now becoming aware of what is really in the bill
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Endoscopy9 months ago
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In answer to what Obama said look at some of the things in this so called stimulus package. These are from Senator Tom Coburn.
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Wasteful and Non-Stimulus Spending Provisions
* $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Dept. of Energy defunded last year because the project was inefficient
* A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film
* $650 million for the digital television (DTV) converter box coupon program
* $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship)
* $448 million for constructing the Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
* $248 million for furniture at the new Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
* $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees
* $400 million for the CDC to screen and prevent STD’s
* $1.4 billion for a rural waste disposal programs
* $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities
* $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion
* $75 million for “smoking cessation activities”
* $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges
* $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI
* $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
* $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas
* $6 billion to turn federal buildings into “green” buildings
* $500 million for state and local fire stations
* $650 million for wildland fire management on Forest Service lands
* $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities
* $1.2 billion for “youth activities,” including youth summer job programs
* $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service
* $412 million for CDC buildings and property
* $500 million for building and repairing NIH facilities in Bethesda, MD
* $160 million for “paid volunteers” at the Corporation for National and Community Service
* $5.5 million for “energy efficiency initiatives” at the
VA “National Cemetery Administration”
* $850 million for Amtrak
* $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint
* $75M to construct a new “security training” facility for State Dept Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
* $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems
* $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
* State Medicaid Bailout: $87.7 billion Through 3 different mechanisms, the bill would provide additional federal funds to state Medicaid programs over the next 3 years. This is nearly $70 billion more than the governors asked President Obama for in December, and should be a loan to be repaid by the states.-
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quackpot9 months ago
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Endo,
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Did you even read this before the cut-and-paste?
Your points are either
A) Items that both create jobs and improve our lives (e.g. N.I.H. buildings)
B) Items that are trivial compared to 800 billion (e.g. 75 million for smoking)
C) Things that you know nothing about (e.g. need for security training facilities) -
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flyonthewallzz9 months ago
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quackpot9 months ago
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Endo, did you even read this list before you copied and pasted it?
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--Repair of buildings doesn't create jobs? Construction workers?
--Funds for education doesn't create jobs? Teachers? construction workers?
--Developing new energy doesn't create jobs? Engineers?
--Weatherization doesn't create jobs? Installers? Manufacurrers?
--Dollars to the middle class doesn't create jobs? Middle class folks don't spend?
--Food stamps don't create jobs? Agribusiness (off set by a decrease in coffin sales).
--Broadband roll out doesn't create jobs? Installers? e-merchants?
--Job training programs don't create jobs? Retraining workers is not necessary?
MOST of these jobs ARE American (as opposed to the buy a foreign-made T.V. approach of a tax break)
MOST of these DO create MAJOR jobs (and the other poinrts that you mention are too trivial to argue about -
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Endoscopy9 months ago
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Questionable Policy
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* Eliminates fees on loans from the Small Business Administration, thus pushing private capital toward unproductive businesses and away from productive businesses.
* Increases the definition of “youth” for certain summer job programs from age 21 to age 24.
* $160 million to the Job Corps program at the Dept. of Labor, but not for job programs – rather, to construct, alter or repair buildings.
* Requires a government study on the impact of minimum wage laws on the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa.
* $79 billion State Fiscal Stabilization (slush) Fund to bailout the States by providing billions of dollars for “education” costs of any kind.
* $47.843 billion is appropriated for a variety of energy programs that are primarily focused on renewable energy development and energy conservation/efficiency. Not one dollar is appropriated to make fossil fuels more affordable in the near future. More than $6 billion of these funds go to environmental clean ups.
* Increases eligibility for “weatherization” assistance to households 200 percent above the poverty level.
* The “Making Work Pay” credit of $500 to every individual making less than $75,000 (or $1000 to couples making $150,000 or less) would pay people whether they are productive or not – akin to welfare.
* The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP – food stamps) would temporarily suspend the 3-month limit for non-working adults to receive SNAP benefits, thus giving incentives not to find a job.
* Installs government as the creator of broadband deployment regardless of whether the specific local/regional market can sustain it.
* Funds new “green jobs” job-training program without eliminating inefficient job-training programs or consolidating duplicative job-training programs.
* $890 million to the Social Security Administration without any provisions to reduce improper payments, or any plan to increase solvency of the trust fund.
* Nothing requires the products that are purchased with these funds be here in America. Lithium ion batteries, for instance, are primarily made in Asia.
Most of this is things that do not create any jobs.-
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BB649 months ago
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Quack,
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Building and road repair will not create new jobs but fund over bloated state agencies. They're long term and not a short term stimulus. Road builder's and the unions, special interest groups all around.
Education. For what? Grade school, high school? Again, this doesn't create anything other than a way to funnel extra money to teacher's unions. It takes years to build schools. Approvals, hearings, etc. Nothing short term here. Special interest again.
Energy? Yea right. You guys can't even build off shore without liberals like Kennedy bitching about his view being bothered. You think you will just wave your hands and you get the rights to build wind machines and solar panels? The environmentalist will never stand for any of it. Again it will take decades and require trillions. Another special interest here. Hope & change? Same old same old.
Weatherizing homes is fine. We've been doing that for years here in Wisconsin as a part of our energy plan. But it doesn't create jobs and by the time the money becomes available it's summer and the products will go to waste.
Middle class doesn't create jobs? When was the last time you saw a poor person buy a new car? When was the last time you saw a poor person buy a new house? The middle class, whats left of them do most of the buying, selling and paying taxes you want to give away. They need tax cuts far more than poor people need another tax refund check.
Food stamps creates government work, little else. You want food costs lower? Stop making ethanol.
Broadband? Besides a few installers, that's not going to solve the worlds problems. That plus 99% of what they would use is made in China.
Job training? Great train people but make sure you teach them how to speak Mexican, Chinese or some other 3rd world language. If you don't cut corporate taxes, fees, etc, the only jobs left will not be here in the USA.
The only thing that will keep and bring business back is reducing government. Taxes and regulations are too costly. It's time that private enterprise be allowed to grow. Socialism and communism fail every time. People can spend their own money far better than government. -
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Endoscopy9 months ago
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Obama says that this bill is needed for IMMEDIATE economic stimulation. OCB says only 15% 2ill be spent in the first year. That is not immediate. The following is why many jobs are years out along with other things.
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Food stamps does not create jobs. No more food will be sold. Just different foods.
Construction
Do you have any idea how long it take to create these jobs?
The money has to be allocated by congress.
The money trickles down through the bureaucracy and be given to the agency controlling that.
The agency investigates and then gets bids on the first phase of the project.
Drawings have to be created.
Permits have to be sought and received.
Lawsuits have to be settled.
Finally after 2 to 5 years the construction gets started depending on location and size of the job. Maybe less if it is repairs.
Buying big computers takes years. First specs have to be created, then the bids are sought and then one is accepted. Things overlooked details need to be ironed out. Price is adjusted. Then the Computer manufacturer can start building them. That is about 2 years later if lucky. I have been involved in these kinds of negotiations.
Forcing the broadband on locations where they do not have the support to pay for it will put companies out of business. This is also big brother in charge of this infrastructure. The last thing we need. The government one size fits all.
Requires a government study on the impact of minimum wage laws on the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa. Tell me hos this creates jobs now.
Education spending is the job of the States and local communities not the Federal Government. -
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tadair9199 months ago
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willottica9 months ago
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I really hope this works.
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Unfortunately, it looks suspiciously like they're trying to "inflate" the economy with this stimulus. What do you get when you inflate something? A bubble. With luck (for the Democrats in government) the inflation will succeed and the bubble will survive for several years. Of course, that will mean that the economy is still full of nothing.
There are two ways to get rid of a bubble. You can burst it: we just saw that happen. Or you can deflate it slowly: but everyone's deathly afraid of that too. What's the problem? Can you not recognize that the bubble exists? Or that the natural state is somewhat smaller than the previous bubble led people to believe?
I find it somewhat ironic that Bush's deficit overspending was so severely criticized by Democrats and that Obama's deficit overspending is now being lauded by them as the only solution. Conversely, the Republicans who defended Bush's deficits are now ringing warning bells about Obama's deficits. No one heeds their own warnings. No one listens to their own criticism.
When I first heard about the Amero, I wanted nothing to do with it. Damned if I would support my country's currency being merged with a country that just prints money on demand. The admin changed, but the spending hasn't.
Will Obama delay the inevitable financial revolution? Maybe. It doesn't seem like he's trying to avoid it (by instituting the kinds of changes needed, like conservative spending). -
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Leemck029 months ago
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BB64, I am just glad to see them (DNC) in place to be the blame. That "change" with President Obama is the bomb. The mess he was handed, whether you are in denial or not, is touchy. But until you (the GOP) do clean house, and find your way, stay out the way. Lose that GOP lockstep & gridlock play book, and get on-board with the democratic process. It is time for all to practice the fine art of compromise.
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BB649 months ago
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For Republican Senators who vote for this bill, make sure you have a resume handy. You will find the conservative base will no longer fund your campaigns. No money, no campaign, no job. As a life long member of the GOP and a conservative, we're retaking our party. We're using the DNC play book. We're cleaning house and removing Rinos. We'll rebuild on the grassroots. School boards, city councils and the like. We lost our way over the last few years. I live in a city that's been run into the ground by the DNC. The excuse for the last 50 years was the evil GOP. Well they have all the seats on the bus now. I wonder who they blame now?
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DropkickaLib9 months ago
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It's time for the Kleptocrats to take an economics course and see what inflationary expenditures they are unleashing. Bush was a fiscal liberal, in opposition to the Conservative views of his own base so get over that old song and dance.
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vettenut9 months ago
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All this loud and persistent crying from Dem's for Republicans to "help out in the recovery effort" and join them in passing this massive Por-- (Sorry, I mean "Stimulus Bill") is so disingenuous!
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If the Dem's are so sure all this spending will boost the recovery of the economy, they should PASS IT IMMEDIATELY-- it will make the Messi-- (sorry, I mean "the President") look good and cement their position with the American people. The Dem's have a majority in both houses of Congress, and outside of a filibuster, the Republicans cannot stop them!
But NOOOOOOO! They want the Republicans to join them, because deep down in their conspiratorial, deceiving, leftist hearts they KNOW this bill will NOT be successful, so they want the Republicans to be able to share the blame when it crashes.
I only hope that (except for Spector and the two RINO ladies from Maine, who cannot figure which side of the aisle they are actually on) the Republicans on Capitol Hill will "keep their hands clean and NOT JOIN the Dem's on their ill-conceived and unnecessary "Magical Mystery Bill."
Then, when it crashes, there will actually be some legislators with the credibility, and the leadership ability to lead the US out of its spending-induced morass, in which it will surely find itself!-
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vettenut9 months ago
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Just as the special interest groups and recipients of all the spending projects will certainly consume all the pork, beef, chicken, tax money and fish that Congress can possibly pack into the massive spending bill before Congress (that is called, falsely, by some as a "Stimulus Package"),
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so also, Propeller has apparently consumed my comment........... -
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Leemck029 months ago
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vettenut, My Friend", (I liked that when McCain would say it, from AZ not the White House), let's not blur the line between a democracy and one of those "ism's". We should expect our congress to get on board with solving the problems of the nation.
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It is fair for the Republicans to admit they only knew "Tax Cuts" and "Lock Step". One was an economic failure and the other was not how America's government was intended to work. So, to ask them and even expect them to put the nation first is reasonable. Perhaps you have gotten accustomed to the 10 years of GOP gridlock tactics that it seems like the nation is "crying" when it is insistence to put "We the People" concerns over a GOP agenda.
Republicans should join in with making a change; believe it or not, that's what is supposed to go on in congress. Joining in means offering good solutions, as a first response; doing that well before trying to play the gridlock games. Bro, we need to beat this loss of America's leadership to stay the World's economic and military leader.
Dem and GOP legislators will be fine if the economy crashes, better than most. Think about the jobless and ill here and now. Yes, the GOP is in the minority, and need to act responsibly with the majority party's agenda. Lockstep for political reasons is not cute, desired, appropriate or productive. The "Tax Cuts" crap is over, it is not an Obama administration policy, so it must go. If the people wanted more of it they had plenty of choices. The perceived "crying" is actually a referendum (Straight Talk, I like that too, from AZ) by the people who are aware that we have an economic problem that demands action.
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BB649 months ago
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Susan Collins, Olympia Snow, and Arlen Specter, please have your resumes handy. Because you will be facing the wrath of the conservative wing of the GOP. We will spend millions campaigning for anyone but you in your districts. We're starting at the grassroots. We will bounce you out of office by running real conservatives with real values. Rinos will be expelled from the party. The conservatives are mad as hell and we're not going to take it. It's Rino Hunting time!
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orndorffter9 months ago
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If we would have had a good republican in office rather then President Obama, I would have probley think the same way (endo) thinks. But no matter what, we need to set aside our differancess and think of our country and the people who live in it,instead of being bulheaded and see the writing on the wall. I'am not being rude or anything to endo, because If obama would not of got to be President I would of felt the same way. but if it means standing up for something that can pull this country and the people back were we belong, I would have to get over it and do whats right. and support the stimulus. we all seem to keep following our hearts weather we are Dem or Rep and continue to still follow our own partys, but as I said, its time now to let go and put our differntance and set them aside and do it for oue country and the people in it. Let Obama do his job, as of yet hes not stired us wrong.By the way Very Good Post.
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THOMNH629 months ago
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can you blame them, this is the worst spending bill in US history, everyone gets their hand in the cookie jar. Every single democrat has bloated this with useless left wing spending to further the cause of staying in office by placating to their wacko base, god help us
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BB649 months ago
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I've been blasted here by the loony left. Can any of you explain how this massive pork-zilla spending bill will provide any help within 20 years? I see money for schools with engineering and sciences. Who do you plan on sending to school? Most of your children can't or won't go into this, it's too difficult.
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Where are we building the new wind farms and solar plants? If you did, how do you get the power to where you need it? You have the ecconazis who will protest the clear cutting of trees for the power grids, the clearing of land for the wind towers and all of the access roads. If you go solar, you're taking thousands of miles for the mirrors and they require lot and lots of space. Of course, I'm sure the DNC will have their armies of lawyers collecting on both sides of the fight so they really don't care, it's not their money. Since most Dems forget to pay their taxes anyway.
But seriously, what part of this plan actually increases jobs within 12 months? I don't see anything here that can be done in under 5 years. I mean other than hiring more welfare and food stamps workers. -
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greenmac9 months ago
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That would definitely stimulate the economy....but...how much are you willing to pay for American made. Can a product be made as cheap in America as in ..say China. If a product needs to be price competitive, will the labor component be reduced by reducing the hourly rate? How much will you pay...how low a salary are you willing to accept.
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fsev419 months ago
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One thing I've learned from this post is that the cons are all economic experts. They seem to have all of the right answers to our current financial crisis. What I don't understand is why there sitting in Milwaukee and wherever else and not in Washington. They could have counseled GWB and Hank Paulson and had this whole mess cleared up before OBama even took office.
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HackmeistersLaw9 months ago
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WE THE PEOPLE can stimulate the economy and create jobs.
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The politicians in Washington want to spend Trillions of dollars that we don’t have and can’t afford to do something that won’t work.
There is a better way.
If you had the opportunity, and it was easy, would you be willing to help fix our nation?
Please follow this link to discover how easy it is to be a hero:
http://www.Hackmeister.com
The theory that you are about to read WILL stimulate our economy, rebuild our national manufacturing base, and create jobs.
It will also induce a sense of pride in being American that we have not seen in years.
The cost is not Trillions of dollars.
The cost is ZERO. -
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