Comments for Stimulus bill narrowly survives Senate test vote »
Posted By STONERS 10 months, 3 weeks ago in Business & FinanceAn $838 billion economic stimulus bill backed by the White House narrowly advanced in the Senate on Monday over strong Republican opposition, and Democratic leaders vowed to deliver the emergency legislation for President Barack Obama's signature within a few days.
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STONERS10 months, 3 weeks ago
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"The vote was 61-36, one more than the 60 needed to move the measure toward Senate passage on Tuesday. That in turn, will set the stage for possibly contentious negotiations with the House on a final compromise on legislation the president says is desperately needed to tackle the worst economic crisis in more than a generation."
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cushi10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Bull! The repugs are STILL being the stumbling blocks and I hope every single one of them gets put out the next go-round! I am sick to death of people playing politics in the middle of a life and death struggle for survival of our country. Even if the stimulus package doesn't solve everything (nobody ever said it would), it's a start and it sure as hell beats sitting around twiddling our thumbs and arguing back and forth. What is it going to take for reality to set in?
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myfairlady10 months, 3 weeks ago
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nostalgia10 months, 3 weeks ago
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That is exactly what is amazing!
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Why the big push to sell this boondoggle - Obama had a town hall meeting in IN yesterday, a prime time news conference last evening and another town hall meeting scheduled for FL
What is making the Democrats so nervous about this - are they just looking for political cover when this doesn't work?-
libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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nostalgia10 months, 3 weeks ago
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The health care provisions are even more ominous than anyone really knew
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And we need to kill of those greedy seniors who are sucking the health care system dry
Ruin Your Health With the Obama Stimulus Plan
Tragically, no one from either party is objecting to the health provisions slipped in without discussion. These provisions reflect the handiwork of Tom Daschle, until recently the nominee to head HHS
Senators should read these provisions and vote against them because they are dangerous to your health. (Page numbers refer to H.R. 1 EH, pdf version).
One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions (442, 446). These provisions in the stimulus bill are virtually identical to what Daschle prescribed in his 2008 book, “Critical: What We Can Do About the Health-Care Crisis.” According to Daschle, doctors have to give up autonomy and “learn to operate less like solo practitioners.”
New Penalties
Hospitals and doctors that are not “meaningful users” of the new system will face penalties. “Meaningful user” isn’t defined in the bill. That will be left to the HHS secretary, who will be empowered to impose “more stringent measures of meaningful use over time” (511, 518, 540-541)
What penalties will deter your doctor from going beyond the electronically delivered protocols when your condition is atypical or you need an experimental treatment? The vagueness is intentional. In his book, Daschle proposed an appointed body with vast powers to make the “tough” decisions elected politicians won’t make.
The stimulus bill does that, and calls it the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research (190-192). The goal, Daschle’s book explained, is to slow the development and use of new medications and technologies because they are driving up costs.
Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.
Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill would change that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council (464).
If the Obama administration’s economic stimulus bill passes the Senate in its current form, seniors in the U.S. will face similar rationing. Defenders of the system say that individuals benefit in younger years and sacrifice later.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039=co...
So much for the US becoming a leader in health care - new technology is TOO expensive
The provisions were stuck into the Senate version late Saturday night. Senators are just now becoming aware of what is really in the bill-
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RedRiverJ10 months, 3 weeks ago
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you are so right nostalgia........
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The so-called “Stimulus Bill” has in it a provision to establish a “National Coordinator of Health Information Technology.” The Coordinator would primarily establish cost cutting guidelines that doctors would be bound to follow or face penalties determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services.
A lot of the health policies that somehow made their way into a package that’s purported to deal with “economic stimulus” were written with the advice of Tom Daschle (no, evil doesn’t just walk away). Daschle’s book on health care states that seniors should sacrifice advancements in care so that resources can be spent primarily on the young. The free market system that values and encourages advancements for young and old alike has no place in the heart of a man who, were it not for a matter of back taxes, would have fancied himself the Grinch Who Stole Healthcare.
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/8345
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nostalgia10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Endo I'm not ignoring that
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The provisions were simply inserted in this boondoggle to try and keep it from the light of day
When Senators aren't even aware that the provisions are in the bill yet are voting on the bill, there is a real problem
I am getting the feeling there is much more of that type of thing in the bill and we will only hear about them AFTER the bill is passed
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icono110 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt." (Please note that this would in no way affect a great American like Tom Daschele, who was once a representative of 'We The People', because he is a multi-millionair and can easily afford expensive medical care.)
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That is disconcerting to hear now that America has an aging population.
but it makes perfect economic sense in that older people have more age related medical problems and therefore treating them would use up more govt money needed for more important pet govt projects to fund.
I wonder if Peglosie's 'Olympic Frisbee Course' is still being considered in the fine print of the bill. I would hate for America's youth to be denied the use of such a valuable sport asset because too many 'older Americans' needed treatment for rhematoid arthritis and other age related and debilitating diseases( like diabetes, stroke, alzheimers, heart disease, lung disease(COPD and etc), Cancer and variants, etc., etc.,,,,,).
Welcome to the new American Gulag Comrades. If you are old and not wealthy or 'important 'get a shovel and dig your own grave for you are truly a financial drain on the new economics of the United States Socialistic Republic. If you feel real pain while digging, just suck it up and take it as a character building exercise.-
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cushi10 months, 3 weeks ago
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News flash! Seniors are already bearing the brunt and have been for the last 8 years! I am bearing the brunt also, as a disabled American. I am already choosing between food, medicine, medical care, utilities and a roof over my head. I have no doubt that I will continue to suffer for years to come, and I lay the blame for that right where it belongs - on the Bush administration. I don't expect the stimulus package to be a panacea for all my troubles. Maybe it won't help in some ways, but it will help in others, and considering the alternatives, I'll take what I can get and be thankful.
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dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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It seems you must know a lot of the details to say they DONT create jobs. can you supply us those links? or is it as usual the right wing is extremely bitter the agenda they followed for the last 8 years resulted in the most catastrophic economic meltdown the history of man has seen and the only thing to do is claim no jobs will be created to divert attention from the fact THIS mess was engineered by the REPUBLICANS.
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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In answer to what Obama said look at some of the things in this so called stimulus package. These are from Senator Tom Coburn.
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Wasteful and Non-Stimulus Spending Provisions
* $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Dept. of Energy defunded last year because the project was inefficient
* A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film
* $650 million for the digital television (DTV) converter box coupon program
* $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship)
* $448 million for constructing the Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
* $248 million for furniture at the new Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
* $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees
* $400 million for the CDC to screen and prevent STD’s
* $1.4 billion for a rural waste disposal programs
* $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities
* $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion
* $75 million for “smoking cessation activities”
* $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges
* $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI
* $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
* $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas
* $6 billion to turn federal buildings into “green” buildings
* $500 million for state and local fire stations
* $650 million for wildland fire management on Forest Service lands
* $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities
* $1.2 billion for “youth activities,” including youth summer job programs
* $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service
* $412 million for CDC buildings and property
* $500 million for building and repairing NIH facilities in Bethesda, MD
* $160 million for “paid volunteers” at the Corporation for National and Community Service
* $5.5 million for “energy efficiency initiatives” at the
VA “National Cemetery Administration”
* $850 million for Amtrak
* $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint
* $75M to construct a new “security training” facility for State Dept Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
* $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems
* $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
* State Medicaid Bailout: $87.7 billion Through 3 different mechanisms, the bill would provide additional federal funds to state Medicaid programs over the next 3 years. This is nearly $70 billion more than the governors asked President Obama for in December, and should be a loan to be repaid by the states.-
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quackpot10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Endo,
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Did you even read this before the cut-and-paste?
Your points are either
A) Items that both create jobs and improve our lives (e.g. N.I.H. buildings)
B) Items that are trivial compared to 800 billion (e.g. 75 million for smoking)
C) Things that you know nothing about (e.g. need for security training facilities)-
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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They do not create the jobs that are being lost. Most of that money will not be spent this year. It is not an immediate Stimulus. It is a pork bill.
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A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film
Explain this one to me. The movie industry is not losing money.
$1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion
This is next year. Why is it in this stupid bill.
$850 million for Amtrack that does not move many passengers. Great.
$160 million for “paid volunteers” at the Corporation for National and Community Service. paid volunteers???
$5.5 million for “energy efficiency initiatives” at the VA “National Cemetery Administration”
How is this creating jobs? -
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flyonthewallzz10 months, 3 weeks ago
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flyonthewallzz10 months, 3 weeks ago
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flyonthewallzz10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I know you don't mean that Amazed.
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We paid out that money to the repo men.
Taxes suck enough without some private coyote getting paid to hassle us in order to turn over a small percent.
I am all for leveling the tax compliance bar across all public officials.
I know I could not meet that standard.
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flyonthewallzz10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I think a blanket statement like that has holes in it and will not keep you warm at night.
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Do you honestly think the republican public servants could withstand equal scrutiny?
I am glad they are getting nailed, but I think it is silly to call it a red/blue thing.-
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flyonthewallzz10 months, 3 weeks ago
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When my son was very little he asked me "Daddy what are you afraid of?"
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I said "taxes"
He said " What would you do if you woke up in the middle of the night an knew there was a taxes under your bed?"
I don't even want to think about the amount of hours I have worked to pay off the penalties for my tax Sh!t.
It is not that easy to comply if you strike out young and on your own as a sub contractor.
Folks like Joe the plumber or the new Secretary of the Treasury have nothing on me.
I could get my teeth fixed in jail.
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quackpot10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Endo, did you even read this list before you copied and pasted it?
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--Repair of buildings doesn't create jobs? Construction workers?
--Funds for education doesn't create jobs? Teachers? construction workers?
--Developing new energy doesn't create jobs? Engineers?
--Weatherization doesn't create jobs? Installers? Manufacurrers?
--Dollars to the middle class doesn't create jobs? Middle class folks don't spend?
--Food stamps don't create jobs? Agribusiness (off set by a decrease in coffin sales).
--Broadband roll out doesn't create jobs? Installers? e-merchants?
--Job training programs don't create jobs? Retraining workers is not necessary?
MOST of these jobs ARE American (as opposed to the buy a foreign-made T.V. approach of a tax break)
MOST of these DO create MAJOR jobs (and the other poinrts that you mention are too trivial to argue about-
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THOMNH6210 months, 3 weeks ago
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protoham10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Not only that, but the rapid deflation of the value of currency will rob IRAs, 401K, and pension plans. I thought this stuff was suppose to be safe, but these crooks in Washington have figured out how to get their hands on it. I guess I will be in the same bread line with everyone else looking for my daily government ration.
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Brother can you spare a dime for a fellow American?-
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cushi10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Neocons, where was all your doom and gloom when the Bushbaby was running the show? He and his cronies sucked the life blood out of our country and you sat back and applauded! Now you want to spread all these negative vibes? I don't THINK so.
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dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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ROFLMAO, BB it seems what you do for a living seems to change every few posts. I do find it quite interesting that someone running a division would have time to post with the frequency that you do, but then again you are a rightie so Im failry certain you do very little yourself. For someone so learned, as you claim, your responses to Obamas stimulus plan verge on the nonesensical (which seems to be a pattern of your responses). Again I will state the corporate tax rate you pay is MUCH LESS then the tax rate an ordinary citizen pays. The main reason for outsourcing has much more to do with unregulated labor availability and the ability to pay under a dollar an hour then with the tax rate. Under the Bush tax rebate to the rich plan we saw jobs leaving the US at a record rate, yet the taxes fell. All which you seem to ignore. ROFLMAO.
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Leemck0210 months, 3 weeks ago
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THOMNH62, bankrupt? Do you think that is the worst that could happen? We are as a country in a trillion dollars worth of debt, and what is the dollar worth? We need production, wealth generation but that's longer term. We have to get some breathing room to make it through the short term and we better hope the stimulus package does that.
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I am confident this president will not put the money in rich people's pocket and ride the "Tax-Cut" wave, without wavering to a collapse. That's a relief. -
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Questionable Policy
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* Eliminates fees on loans from the Small Business Administration, thus pushing private capital toward unproductive businesses and away from productive businesses.
* Increases the definition of “youth” for certain summer job programs from age 21 to age 24.
* $160 million to the Job Corps program at the Dept. of Labor, but not for job programs – rather, to construct, alter or repair buildings.
* Requires a government study on the impact of minimum wage laws on the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa.
* $79 billion State Fiscal Stabilization (slush) Fund to bailout the States by providing billions of dollars for “education” costs of any kind.
* $47.843 billion is appropriated for a variety of energy programs that are primarily focused on renewable energy development and energy conservation/efficiency. Not one dollar is appropriated to make fossil fuels more affordable in the near future. More than $6 billion of these funds go to environmental clean ups.
* Increases eligibility for “weatherization” assistance to households 200 percent above the poverty level.
* The “Making Work Pay” credit of $500 to every individual making less than $75,000 (or $1000 to couples making $150,000 or less) would pay people whether they are productive or not – akin to welfare.
* The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP – food stamps) would temporarily suspend the 3-month limit for non-working adults to receive SNAP benefits, thus giving incentives not to find a job.
* Installs government as the creator of broadband deployment regardless of whether the specific local/regional market can sustain it.
* Funds new “green jobs” job-training program without eliminating inefficient job-training programs or consolidating duplicative job-training programs.
* $890 million to the Social Security Administration without any provisions to reduce improper payments, or any plan to increase solvency of the trust fund.
* Nothing requires the products that are purchased with these funds be here in America. Lithium ion batteries, for instance, are primarily made in Asia.
Most of this is things that do not create any jobs.-
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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Quack,
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Building and road repair will not create new jobs but fund over bloated state agencies. They're long term and not a short term stimulus. Road builder's and the unions, special interest groups all around.
Education. For what? Grade school, high school? Again, this doesn't create anything other than a way to funnel extra money to teacher's unions. It takes years to build schools. Approvals, hearings, etc. Nothing short term here. Special interest again.
Energy? Yea right. You guys can't even build off shore without liberals like Kennedy bitching about his view being bothered. You think you will just wave your hands and you get the rights to build wind machines and solar panels? The environmentalist will never stand for any of it. Again it will take decades and require trillions. Another special interest here. Hope & change? Same old same old.
Weatherizing homes is fine. We've been doing that for years here in Wisconsin as a part of our energy plan. But it doesn't create jobs and by the time the money becomes available it's summer and the products will go to waste.
Middle class doesn't create jobs? When was the last time you saw a poor person buy a new car? When was the last time you saw a poor person buy a new house? The middle class, whats left of them do most of the buying, selling and paying taxes you want to give away. They need tax cuts far more than poor people need another tax refund check.
Food stamps creates government work, little else. You want food costs lower? Stop making ethanol.
Broadband? Besides a few installers, that's not going to solve the worlds problems. That plus 99% of what they would use is made in China.
Job training? Great train people but make sure you teach them how to speak Mexican, Chinese or some other 3rd world language. If you don't cut corporate taxes, fees, etc, the only jobs left will not be here in the USA.
The only thing that will keep and bring business back is reducing government. Taxes and regulations are too costly. It's time that private enterprise be allowed to grow. Socialism and communism fail every time. People can spend their own money far better than government.-
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amazed10 months, 3 weeks ago
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(( "OBAMA: 'We also inherited the most profound economic emergency since the Great Depression.'
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"THE FACTS: This could turn out to be the case. But as bad as the economic numbers are, the unemployment figures have not reached the levels of the early 1980s, let alone the 1930s))
So much for "rejecting the politics of fear".. Pass this bill NOW or face economic catastrophe! I'll listen to ideas from anywhere, but if they don't see my point of view, they're obviously wrong -- essentially what Obama said several times last night.
Anyway, it is a long known and proven fact that the economy is not only driven by policy but as much by psychology. In other words, while real issues DO affect the economy, the psyche and mindset of the people INVOLVED in the economy also has a big impact. If everyone is convinced that they are going to lose their jobs tomorrow, then they will not spend, meaning companies will not make money or have a need to produce, meaning that the people will likely lose their jobs.. because of the crappy economy?? no, because of the weak economy made completely untenable by the fears of the consumer.
And, btw, according to it's website, since the bailout bill passing the Senate, the Dow had dropped 386 points. -
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Engnr10 months, 3 weeks ago
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BB64 maybe you don't understand, I bet you do not have credit cards maxed out, I bet you have been putting money away in a 401K or an IRA, I bet you don't buy things you can not afford. You see you are just like me. Conservative in your life style. You can scream and yell all you want and these kids will never understand. They don't think past a job, is it a productive job? is it worth doing? Does it help the GNP? No, all they see is a job and someone is paying them. They don't understand that all the jobs in the world will do nothing for our economy if we can't export a product from it. The future looks bleak!
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I will see you on the breadline waiting for my government daily handout. -
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dunkirk10 months, 3 weeks ago
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ROFLMAO, I see you cut and pasted more jibberish. Your comebacks are pretty nonesensical.
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"The only thing that will keep and bring business back is reducing government. Taxes and regulations are too costly. It's time that private enterprise be allowed to grow. Socialism and communism fail every time. People can spend their own money far better than government."
Seems that was the cornerstone of the Bush administration for the lat 8 years. You know the period in time when we saw jobs leaving the US at a record breaking pace.
"Weatherizing homes is fine. We've been doing that for years here in Wisconsin as a part of our energy plan. But it doesn't create jobs and by the time the money becomes available it's summer and the products will go to waste."
Yeah the weatherization just magically appears on the houses. You do understand hes not just saying caulk around the window right. And what is proposed is major insulation and energy conservation techniques.
"Broadband? Besides a few installers, that's not going to solve the worlds problems. That plus 99% of what they would use is made in China."
Few installers? ROFLMAO. worlds problems? I thought the bill was suppose to help create jobs here now the right wxprects it to fix the worlds problems? This is the same world thafor the last 8 years you guys were saying are immaterial and shoiuld be ignored?? Now Obama has to fix thier problems too., AND I suspect the reason the stuff s made in Cina is because that is where it went under Bush.
And that is just a few of the trivialities you seem to like to prodiuce on a regualr basis. Ill tell u what BB, you seem convinced that its all taxes that send busines overseas and nothing to do with unregulated labor markets. Considering most big business pays way less percentage wise then I do maybe you can explain how that is? I make ends meet paying percentage wise more then they do. Im trying to understand how MBA's are complaining they dont have enought when they can pay themselves multi-millon dollar bonuses?-
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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I didn't cut and copy. The misspelling and poor grammar are all me.
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I've said this before but for some reason you guys never listen. It's either a case of you're too busy talking to listen or just too simple to understand the concepts of capitalism. First, government creates nothing. No job that creates prosperity every came from government. Read the preamble to US Constitution. That's really all government is supposed to do. Everything else is on us the private individuals.
On the stimulus or Pork-Zilla, please tell show me the errors in my comment. Bacon Obama wants fast actions and needs fast results. Most of the Pork-zilla doesn’t offer that. Road, school or power plant building will take years. Most of the money flows into the coffers of the special interest groups, none of which will help our nation. For the “stimulus” to work, you need money in the economy now and success in 12 to 18 months. This will force us into a full blown depression as it did for FDR and his administration. -
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quackpot10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Food stamps: I agree. iIt might create even more jobs treating the patients with vitamin deficiencies (yes, a REAL problem in the U.S.A.) and other nutritional problems. It will also, as I noted, decrease casket maker income.
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Construction: Do you have any idea of how many projects have been placed on hold due to the uncertain economic climate? Construction could begin on these on-hold projects NOW, AND then, supply jobs for the next several years (yes, it will require years to get out of Bush's mess).
Micro computers can be purchased in days, not years - get with the times., Endo.
In all, the bill contains a mix of immediate stimuli, intermediate term stimuli and long term stimuli to get us through what will be a multi-year slump. -
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amazed10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Seems that was the cornerstone of the Bush administration for the lat 8 years. You know the period in time when we saw jobs leaving the US at a record breaking pace
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Actually, even throughout the Bush administration, there were plenty of regulations -- some of them helpful and reasonable and some of them stupid, obstructive and, at least in part, responsible for the exodus of jobs overseas.
What was lacking was oversight and enforcement. Only the most rabid libertarian will argue (and truly believe) that there should be absolutely no oversight or regulation of business, but likewise, anyone who argues (and truly believes) that government intervention and/or control of industry and business will lead to prosperity, has certainly not learned any of the lessons of history. The only words for government control of industry iare socialism, Marxism or communism. They are all just differing degrees of the same system. -
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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I missed the last part of your ignorance. I mean comments. First, I run a Swiss based division of a very large publicly traded firm. I have stock holders that I must answer to. I have an MBA but having a business degree, I don't understand the statement.
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As a publicly traded firm, I have to generate a profit after all the bills are paid. This includes labor, benefits, insurances, etc. Then you have the fees from city, county, state and federal. This may be in the form of taxes or services or whatever way they squeeze money out of you. You have your controllables and non-controllables too. Buildings, computers, heating & cooling, snow removable even gets a line. Now we have very good accountants and book keepers but bottom line the buck stops with me. If we are to maintain the US divisions, we need good solid profit with growth potential. Currently, with the changes in the market and leadership in Washington, it's very difficult getting our foreign stockholders to continue expanding in the American markets. Mexico is a revolution waiting to happen. The US is on path leading to socialism and reductions in the free market concepts. Canada is growing but again, so heavily reliant on the US markets, if the US fails, so does Canada.
So my long way of saying this pork project from Barry will damage the US economy for many years to come. If you didn't like the Bush budgets, because of deficits, Barry will have created something around 4 times Bush's.
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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Probably few if any. First, road construction is running into problems. The left doesn't want roads. They want rail and green space. They will hold your builders up for decades. Education, Milwaukee has the highest cost per student in the midwest with the lowest graduation rate, 42%. Tossing more money into the pit called public schools is dumb. Construction, who is building in this country? Power plants? You're looking at 10 to 15 years after all of the ecco nazi lawsuits. Engineers, accountants, or any of the sciences? You're still looking at 15 years. How is this stimulus?
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It's pretty clear the left, like you has no idea what the "censored" you're doing. Nothing proposed here would cause my firm or other like us to want to move business to the USA at this time. ABB, Siemens, GE, Harley Davidson, Badger Meter, Waukesha Engine, P Mining, Boeing, and Rockwell International are all building plants or expanding plants in foreign nations. We'd rather keep the manufacturing here in the USA but we simply can't. Three of them closed or are closing their foundries because of the clean air requirements. There was no way to keep them open and meet the standards being proposed.
So when all manufacturing leaves and with it your higher paying jobs, who will be paying the taxes for your welfare checks?-
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flyonthewallzz10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Siemens:
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A while ago I did a job at a Siemens plant.
The capabilities that where ripped out by the demo crew with their claw enabled bobcats was insane.
I think it would be fair to say that the plant was capable of prototyping just about anything. They had clean rooms , chem labs, industrial lasers, mainframe computers, rapid prototyping machines, wood shops,metal shops, paint shops and so much more.
Thomas Edison would have gone nuts.
We opened up the space for an ocean of cubicles.
Folks sitting on there ass in front of a computer.
I wonder how many of them have been laid off?
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Obama says that this bill is needed for IMMEDIATE economic stimulation. OCB says only 15% 2ill be spent in the first year. That is not immediate. The following is why many jobs are years out along with other things.
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Food stamps does not create jobs. No more food will be sold. Just different foods.
Construction
Do you have any idea how long it take to create these jobs?
The money has to be allocated by congress.
The money trickles down through the bureaucracy and be given to the agency controlling that.
The agency investigates and then gets bids on the first phase of the project.
Drawings have to be created.
Permits have to be sought and received.
Lawsuits have to be settled.
Finally after 2 to 5 years the construction gets started depending on location and size of the job. Maybe less if it is repairs.
Buying big computers takes years. First specs have to be created, then the bids are sought and then one is accepted. Things overlooked details need to be ironed out. Price is adjusted. Then the Computer manufacturer can start building them. That is about 2 years later if lucky. I have been involved in these kinds of negotiations.
Forcing the broadband on locations where they do not have the support to pay for it will put companies out of business. This is also big brother in charge of this infrastructure. The last thing we need. The government one size fits all.
Requires a government study on the impact of minimum wage laws on the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa. Tell me hos this creates jobs now.
Education spending is the job of the States and local communities not the Federal Government. -
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tadair91910 months, 3 weeks ago
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Endoscopy10 months, 3 weeks ago
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$6 billion to turn federal buildings into “green” buildings
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This is a boondoggle at best. There is no return on the money and it will not affect the pollution one bit. It will take a lot of re engineering the buildings and will take several years. Workers will be doing the job several years down the road.
Funds new “green jobs” job-training program without eliminating inefficient job-training programs or consolidating duplicative job-training programs. Employs people to train others in a program that has to be developed. I was doing training for my company. A top quality training program takes about a year to complete. Then the teachers need to be taught before the first class will begin. This year a handful of training creators will be employed. That is all. Well into next year before significant numbers can be employed and then not a large number.
$47.843 billion is appropriated for a variety of energy programs that are primarily focused on renewable energy development and energy conservation/efficiency. Not one dollar is appropriated to make fossil fuels more affordable in the near future. More than $6 billion of these funds go to environmental clean ups.
This one is a hoot. I was assigned to NASA for a while and was involved in their windmill program. I was keeping tabs on the other programs for alternative energy. Windmills are only effective in areas of constant high enough winds. That leaves out most of the country. All of the others have problems that engineering and science has yet to conquer. That investigation has been ongoing since Carter. Throwing more money at it will not solve the problems. -
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ecotourusa10 months, 3 weeks ago
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You are absolutely correct HOUSE. I called the census bureau for a job. A Hispanic woman answered the phone. she could barely speak english and she made it real clear to me there were no more jobs available.
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(that's because all of her brothers and sisters will be taking our census.)
we're in severe trouble.
will we be able to survive the next 4 years of OJT in this admin???
for the first time in my life, after losing my job, i am happy to be poor. (My tax bracket has changed dramatically) -
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protoham10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Endo you are 100% right. But they fail to realize that government jobs and service jobs do not generate capital. Only creative jobs (like Engineering / Manufacturing) that export will generate capital, the rest just move money around and will have no effect except to bankrupt us all.
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Leemck0210 months, 3 weeks ago
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Endoscopy, not to analyze you, but seems like you are still hoping for more 'W' days. You can let up, yes the economy is bad. The country was headed down the tubes on that "Tax Cuts" trickle down policy. If a Bottom-up approach fails, its not like we had a surplus and blew it for a trillion dollars deficit.
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Either way, we end up in the soup line. However, while your are in the line or see others that are there, remember, this condition was the creation of the neo-cons, who if were re-elected would continue the "voodoo economics" trickle down failing "Tax-cut" cure for everything policy, no oversight and as they did in the parting days, get a stimulus package that we have no idea where the money went. One more thing, the Wall Street and big bank bubba's would still go incognito with the bonuses.
Give change a chance.
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willottica10 months, 3 weeks ago
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I really hope this works.
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Unfortunately, it looks suspiciously like they're trying to "inflate" the economy with this stimulus. What do you get when you inflate something? A bubble. With luck (for the Democrats in government) the inflation will succeed and the bubble will survive for several years. Of course, that will mean that the economy is still full of nothing.
There are two ways to get rid of a bubble. You can burst it: we just saw that happen. Or you can deflate it slowly: but everyone's deathly afraid of that too. What's the problem? Can you not recognize that the bubble exists? Or that the natural state is somewhat smaller than the previous bubble led people to believe?
I find it somewhat ironic that Bush's deficit overspending was so severely criticized by Democrats and that Obama's deficit overspending is now being lauded by them as the only solution. Conversely, the Republicans who defended Bush's deficits are now ringing warning bells about Obama's deficits. No one heeds their own warnings. No one listens to their own criticism.
When I first heard about the Amero, I wanted nothing to do with it. Damned if I would support my country's currency being merged with a country that just prints money on demand. The admin changed, but the spending hasn't.
Will Obama delay the inevitable financial revolution? Maybe. It doesn't seem like he's trying to avoid it (by instituting the kinds of changes needed, like conservative spending). -
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Leemck0210 months, 3 weeks ago
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BB64, I am just glad to see them (DNC) in place to be the blame. That "change" with President Obama is the bomb. The mess he was handed, whether you are in denial or not, is touchy. But until you (the GOP) do clean house, and find your way, stay out the way. Lose that GOP lockstep & gridlock play book, and get on-board with the democratic process. It is time for all to practice the fine art of compromise.
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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For Republican Senators who vote for this bill, make sure you have a resume handy. You will find the conservative base will no longer fund your campaigns. No money, no campaign, no job. As a life long member of the GOP and a conservative, we're retaking our party. We're using the DNC play book. We're cleaning house and removing Rinos. We'll rebuild on the grassroots. School boards, city councils and the like. We lost our way over the last few years. I live in a city that's been run into the ground by the DNC. The excuse for the last 50 years was the evil GOP. Well they have all the seats on the bus now. I wonder who they blame now?
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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Why is voicing a different opinion from yours such a terrible thing or anti-American? Most of your ilk supported the terrorists over the US in the war on terror. Oh, that's right you supported the troops but not the mission. So if you guys disagree, it's fine. If someone doesn't drink the Obamanation Kool-Aid we're anti-American. I see. Double standards again. Well you are a Dem.
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In my opinion, spending over $1,000,000,000,000,000 is crazy. Especially when we haven't got it. This is a huge set of pork projects the DNC is pushing. As a life member of the GOP, those elected officials that fail in the support of my principles will no longer receive my funding. The GOP will get rid of the Republicans In Name Only or they will see many more years of DNC control. The party will get back to it's roots. -
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DropkickaLib10 months, 3 weeks ago
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For the thieves who vote yes, please prepare an explanation for the massive inflation we'll have and the debt being covered by my great grand children. You are the idiot if you think that borrowing a fortune and going to Vegas is a good way to save our economy.
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DropkickaLib10 months, 3 weeks ago
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It's time for the Kleptocrats to take an economics course and see what inflationary expenditures they are unleashing. Bush was a fiscal liberal, in opposition to the Conservative views of his own base so get over that old song and dance.
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vettenut10 months, 3 weeks ago
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All this loud and persistent crying from Dem's for Republicans to "help out in the recovery effort" and join them in passing this massive Por-- (Sorry, I mean "Stimulus Bill") is so disingenuous!
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If the Dem's are so sure all this spending will boost the recovery of the economy, they should PASS IT IMMEDIATELY-- it will make the Messi-- (sorry, I mean "the President") look good and cement their position with the American people. The Dem's have a majority in both houses of Congress, and outside of a filibuster, the Republicans cannot stop them!
But NOOOOOOO! They want the Republicans to join them, because deep down in their conspiratorial, deceiving, leftist hearts they KNOW this bill will NOT be successful, so they want the Republicans to be able to share the blame when it crashes.
I only hope that (except for Spector and the two RINO ladies from Maine, who cannot figure which side of the aisle they are actually on) the Republicans on Capitol Hill will "keep their hands clean and NOT JOIN the Dem's on their ill-conceived and unnecessary "Magical Mystery Bill."
Then, when it crashes, there will actually be some legislators with the credibility, and the leadership ability to lead the US out of its spending-induced morass, in which it will surely find itself!-
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vettenut10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Just as the special interest groups and recipients of all the spending projects will certainly consume all the pork, beef, chicken, tax money and fish that Congress can possibly pack into the massive spending bill before Congress (that is called, falsely, by some as a "Stimulus Package"),
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so also, Propeller has apparently consumed my comment........... -
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Leemck0210 months, 3 weeks ago
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vettenut, My Friend", (I liked that when McCain would say it, from AZ not the White House), let's not blur the line between a democracy and one of those "ism's". We should expect our congress to get on board with solving the problems of the nation.
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It is fair for the Republicans to admit they only knew "Tax Cuts" and "Lock Step". One was an economic failure and the other was not how America's government was intended to work. So, to ask them and even expect them to put the nation first is reasonable. Perhaps you have gotten accustomed to the 10 years of GOP gridlock tactics that it seems like the nation is "crying" when it is insistence to put "We the People" concerns over a GOP agenda.
Republicans should join in with making a change; believe it or not, that's what is supposed to go on in congress. Joining in means offering good solutions, as a first response; doing that well before trying to play the gridlock games. Bro, we need to beat this loss of America's leadership to stay the World's economic and military leader.
Dem and GOP legislators will be fine if the economy crashes, better than most. Think about the jobless and ill here and now. Yes, the GOP is in the minority, and need to act responsibly with the majority party's agenda. Lockstep for political reasons is not cute, desired, appropriate or productive. The "Tax Cuts" crap is over, it is not an Obama administration policy, so it must go. If the people wanted more of it they had plenty of choices. The perceived "crying" is actually a referendum (Straight Talk, I like that too, from AZ) by the people who are aware that we have an economic problem that demands action.-
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vettenut10 months, 3 weeks ago
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Leemck02:
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I agree that we should expect Congress to pay attention to the "problems of the nation," and try to do what they can to help solve them.
But, to quote you, "Lockstep for political reasons is not cute, desired, appropriate or productive." And I apply that statement to the Republicans simply going along with the Democrats and their agenda. Lockstep by the Democrats is unpalatable, and especially so, given the fallacious nature of their current legislative strategy.
The Republicans in the House, who voted 100% against the so-called "stimulus bill" did so out of two reasons:
First, despite her public statements promising a "bi-partisan approach to working thorough the business of the House of Representatives, Nancy P and her subordinates have re-written the procedural rules so as to "SHUT OUT" Republicans from the process of writing bills in committee and scheduling them for debate in House sessions. Their vote was a protest of that policy that flies in the face of Queen Nancy's own statements. Nancy lied--confidence (in her "leadership") died.
Second, this bill is not designed for stimulus of the economy to get us out of recession. It is a spending bill, PURE & SIMPLE! Very little of the spending will be released in the next 24 months. Almost all of it is weighted toward the '12 election, wherein it can be assumed that BHO will be seeking re-election to his current office.
Can you say the words "buying the election?????"
Why, just today in Fort Myers, FL, BHO basically cried and complained about the "economic mess" he inherited, and the HUGE SIZE of the National deficit--THEN he follows that up by saying that he wants to INCREASE the deficit by nearly 900 BILLION DOLLARS!!!!! That does not compute AT ALL!!!
We US citizens are NOT lemmings. It is likewise irrational for the Democrats to expect the Republicans to act like lemmings. Especially when they want the Republicans to walk "lockstep" behind them toward the abyss!
BTW, you are correct: the "Tax Cuts Crap" is not an Obama administration policy. But I do remember a tall, slender candidate with short, dark curly hair saying only last fall that his "plan" gives a tax cut to middle-class Americans...........
I'm in favor of that plan. Even if it's nowhere to be found now.
LOL!!!
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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Susan Collins, Olympia Snow, and Arlen Specter, please have your resumes handy. Because you will be facing the wrath of the conservative wing of the GOP. We will spend millions campaigning for anyone but you in your districts. We're starting at the grassroots. We will bounce you out of office by running real conservatives with real values. Rinos will be expelled from the party. The conservatives are mad as hell and we're not going to take it. It's Rino Hunting time!
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orndorffter10 months, 3 weeks ago
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If we would have had a good republican in office rather then President Obama, I would have probley think the same way (endo) thinks. But no matter what, we need to set aside our differancess and think of our country and the people who live in it,instead of being bulheaded and see the writing on the wall. I'am not being rude or anything to endo, because If obama would not of got to be President I would of felt the same way. but if it means standing up for something that can pull this country and the people back were we belong, I would have to get over it and do whats right. and support the stimulus. we all seem to keep following our hearts weather we are Dem or Rep and continue to still follow our own partys, but as I said, its time now to let go and put our differntance and set them aside and do it for oue country and the people in it. Let Obama do his job, as of yet hes not stired us wrong.By the way Very Good Post.
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THOMNH6210 months, 3 weeks ago
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can you blame them, this is the worst spending bill in US history, everyone gets their hand in the cookie jar. Every single democrat has bloated this with useless left wing spending to further the cause of staying in office by placating to their wacko base, god help us
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BB6410 months, 3 weeks ago
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I've been blasted here by the loony left. Can any of you explain how this massive pork-zilla spending bill will provide any help within 20 years? I see money for schools with engineering and sciences. Who do you plan on sending to school? Most of your children can't or won't go into this, it's too difficult.
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Where are we building the new wind farms and solar plants? If you did, how do you get the power to where you need it? You have the ecconazis who will protest the clear cutting of trees for the power grids, the clearing of land for the wind towers and all of the access roads. If you go solar, you're taking thousands of miles for the mirrors and they require lot and lots of space. Of course, I'm sure the DNC will have their armies of lawyers collecting on both sides of the fight so they really don't care, it's not their money. Since most Dems forget to pay their taxes anyway.
But seriously, what part of this plan actually increases jobs within 12 months? I don't see anything here that can be done in under 5 years. I mean other than hiring more welfare and food stamps workers. -
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greenmac10 months, 3 weeks ago
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That would definitely stimulate the economy....but...how much are you willing to pay for American made. Can a product be made as cheap in America as in ..say China. If a product needs to be price competitive, will the labor component be reduced by reducing the hourly rate? How much will you pay...how low a salary are you willing to accept.
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slate10 months, 3 weeks ago
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How does one know that a job is saved? Sure we can 'know' when one is 'lost' due to unemployment Insurance but how the heck do you 'know' when a job is saved? It's all simply Rhetoric. Obama said he wants to "create' or 'Save' 2-4 million jobs. It is possible to calculate 'created' jobs due to taxes on said jobsm but I will say once again, that there is no way to 'calculate' the saved jobs due to the stimilus bill.
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Nice try at spinning it though Cushi.
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fsev4110 months, 3 weeks ago
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One thing I've learned from this post is that the cons are all economic experts. They seem to have all of the right answers to our current financial crisis. What I don't understand is why there sitting in Milwaukee and wherever else and not in Washington. They could have counseled GWB and Hank Paulson and had this whole mess cleared up before OBama even took office.
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rimbaud10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The Republicans MAY BE right, but they have lost credibility, because of the long nap they took during the Bush years, and their self-righteousness (like McCain's on the Senate floor) just doesn't play well (we cannot suspend our disbelief). Maybe they can frame their cause in more convincing, if not cooperative, words than those we've been hearing all the way down to where we are, today.
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HackmeistersLaw10 months, 3 weeks ago
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WE THE PEOPLE can stimulate the economy and create jobs.
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The politicians in Washington want to spend Trillions of dollars that we don’t have and can’t afford to do something that won’t work.
There is a better way.
If you had the opportunity, and it was easy, would you be willing to help fix our nation?
Please follow this link to discover how easy it is to be a hero:
http://www.Hackmeister.com
The theory that you are about to read WILL stimulate our economy, rebuild our national manufacturing base, and create jobs.
It will also induce a sense of pride in being American that we have not seen in years.
The cost is not Trillions of dollars.
The cost is ZERO. -
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