Two years of recession, or ten years of hell? »
Posted By jovial 9 months ago in Business & FinanceF William Engdahl: US economy has been hollowed out over the last 15 years and debt load is staggering. A three part interview.
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jovial
Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...
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jovial9 months ago
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Unless you're an economist most people don't realize the depth of the economic emergency that we are in. Obama wants a 800 billion dollar stimulus, but I fear even that's not enough. Our economy is in big trouble. Listen to Engdahl in this three part series. He's been studying the U.S. economy for 15 years, and he has much to say about it. This is not a time for finger pointing. It's time to come together and try to dig ourselves out of this mess. Please watch the videos.
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jovial8 months, 4 weeks ago
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That link may not work for some. Here's the youtube link.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Toz0n9l-WDg -
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jovial8 months, 4 weeks ago
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Here is Engdahl's solution if he got that 3am phone call from President Obama for advice on what to doabout the economy.
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http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_cont... -
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Hallucinations8 months, 4 weeks ago
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You are very right. I can't remember where I saw it but we and Canada and Mexico may join together and call us The North American Union with all borders open and the currency known as the Amero. But the European Union will not back us. I never watched the video's SORRY. But have you heard of this? If you haven't Google it. Its pretty crazy. Also there are other unions coming about: Mediterranian Union and Black Sea Union.
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DropkickaLib8 months, 4 weeks ago
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The Spendulus Package is too much inflationary spending. It is compounding debt on too much existing debt. The History of the Great Depression demonstrates that government spending isn't enough to help but subsequent history shows that it can result in inflationary pressures.
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KlarissaComment removed: Spam
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Endoscopy8 months, 4 weeks ago
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This person is a socialist. That is solution to everything. Nationalize the banks and then what else. Cut our military budget to make us a third rate nation. We went into WW2 with training our tank crews by having them run around in cars to simulate tank activities.
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This stimulus is not a stimulus. It is a package that Democrats have wanted all during the Bush administration and could not get. Only 15% to be spent in the first year. And Obama says that we need this immediately to fix the economy. This is the old style New Deal packaged differently. Just look at how that fixed anything.
Unemployment During the Great Depression
Average rate of unemployment
in 1929: 3.2%
in 1930: 8.9%
in 1931: 16.3%
in 1932: 24.1%
in 1933: 24.9%
in 1934: 21.7%
in 1935: 20.1%
in 1936: 16.9%
in 1937: 14.3%
in 1938: 19.0%
in 1939: 17.2%
Looks to me like it was WW2 that fixed our economy. And you liberals want to repeat that idiocy based on the results.
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Justice4All8 months, 4 weeks ago
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So finally AMerica is finding out that we can't all get rich by selling insurance to each other or suing each other. We have to actually make something.
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We saw the oil crisis coming at least 30 years ago and chose to do nothing. Reagan allowed oil to be traded on the futures market starting in 1983 which led to a huge drop in oil prices. Just want America wanted. And it was good for Reagan. We are paying the rice today but Reagan is dead so he doesn't have to pay.
If we are going to invest billions in something it should be finding a way to wean us off Middle Eastern oil. Many of our problems would go away if we kept that money at home and cutoff the money supply to the Middle east. -
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Engnr8 months, 4 weeks ago
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You have a point, but if this government does not make America a place where business can grow, then we will all be standing in the breadline.
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I don't like the nationalizing the bank idea, that leads us right into socialism, but there does need to be some intelligent regulation and CRA must go away. I would recommend increase tax on Gasoline to encourage people to get smaller more efficient cars, Eliminate corporate Taxes, Remove a lot of over regulation on companies to provide an environment to lure corporations to locate here. Eliminate some of the safety and environmental restrictions on autos. Put some type of restriction on unions to keep them from blackmailing companies.
But I don't expect PO to call me anytime soon. -
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jimdoze8 months, 4 weeks ago
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I thought futures markets was a place of outrageous speculation and higher prices for oil, no??? Wasn't everyone beating that drum less than a year ago?
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Where in all this does this administration have anything serious going on about revamping the power grid and developing home-grown sources of energy??? Oh yeah, they've got a few conservation things going on. Good! But, where's the beef?
By getting serious about energy independence, I am talking about a serious effort to build nuclear fission power plants and a lot of them. Industrial economies require industrial sources of energy. I love photovoltaics and particularly windmills. But, let's face if folks, they will not provide industrial levels of competitive energy for at least another half century... maybe more. It is a simple fact that if we don't build nukes we will continue to use hydrocarbons... and that means a continuation of a major flow of cash, whether it be ours or the rest of the industrialized world's, to the oil-producing nations.
If the environmental lobby continues to hold sway against the building of nukes, there is no administration that will solve the current energy production/trade deficit problem in any meaningful way.
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 4 weeks ago
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Well I hate to say this but Nixon started this crap in '71 when he took off the gold standard and put us on the fiat money program. Never did like the bastard !!!!!!!
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Reagan just put spurs to the horse and said giddy up with supply side robbery economics. Bush, Clinton and Bush piled their crap on it. And now we have the depression that is worse than '29. But of course the conservatives will say no.
Here it is in a nut shell. We have very litle industry left because bozos from both parties were greedy idiots looking to line their pockets and didn't care who they hurt.
Not time to point fingers ???? It sure as hell is !!!! So we Know who never to put in charge again !!!!!
Now as far as the bankers and wall street robbers. Put them in jail and sieze their assets.
Put people back to work in manufacturing and construction jobs rebuilding this nation and make the fools who robbed us pay the most for it.-
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jovial8 months, 4 weeks ago
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I hate to say it, but ladies and gentlemen, take a look at the conservatives and their total lack of civility on this post. They boast of just "knowing" what is best for this country, but cite no valid links or material to back up their biased opinions. Then they attack those that voice their opinion with personal insults. There ought to be a law.
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CRYMTYPHON8 months, 4 weeks ago
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We spent years trying to bomb vietnam into being a democratic country.
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We sent our kids to fight and die there, willing or unwilling.
We did this in the justification that we were preventing them from being slaves.
Their main ally: Communist China.
We lost.
They became a marxist state; lacking any free press, any rights to live and breath except as units of the state.
But creatures such as BB64 realized some years back,
units of the state can't demand clean air or water;
they can't demand basic labour rights;
they can't demand anything .
And a man can make a good buck with slave labour .
Someday there should be an accounting;
unless the pain of being a sleazy, evil, slimy, hollow fraud is enough? -
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slate8 months, 4 weeks ago
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((((((And now we have the depression that is worse than '29.))))
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Worse than 29?
Though it’s true that things are bad and will get worse, we don't have the same unemployment numbers of the ‘great depression’ 'yet', we don't have the "Grapes of Wrath' being played out yet. The left hated Bush for using 'fear' to sale his war but now you unabashedly use the same tactics to sale what it is you're selling. -
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Engnr8 months, 4 weeks ago
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Nixon was the final key, but we had been working up to this for decades. Notice how Kennedy and Johnson had their hand in there too and keep in mind we had a Democratic congress when this happened.
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1945-1968 - FIXED - Gold standard, 26 years
1944 Bretton Woods Accord (similar to gold exchange standard of 1926-1931) Two main currencies again, the US dollar and British pound. A run to convert pounds to gold collapsed the pound and began the end of the Bretton woods accord. It took 3 years while governments tried to salvage the system and also to determine what to do next. Kind of like having one leg on the boat and the other on shore. 1963 - New Federal Reserve notes with no promise to pay in "lawful money" was released. No guarantees, no value. This is also the year of the disappearance of the $1 silver certificate. Once again, a subtle shift in plain view.
1965 - Silver is completely eliminated in all coins save the Kennedy half-dollar, which was reduced to 40 percent silver by President Lyndon Johnson's authorization. The Coinage Act of 1965 signed by Lyndon Johnson, terminates the original legislation signed by George Washington 173 years earlier (carrying the death penalty) enabling the US Treasury to eliminate the silver content of all currency.
1968 - June 24 - President Johnson issued a proclamation that all Federal Reserve Silver Certificates were merely fiat legal tender and could not really be redeemed in silver.
1971 - FLOATING - Fiat currency, 5 months
August of 1971 President Nixon ended the international gold standard and for the first time no currency in the world had a gold backing.
1971-1973 - FIXED - Dollar standard, 2 years
The Smithsonian Agreement was passed pegging world currencies to the dollar rather than gold as a fixed exchange rate.
1973-? - FLOATING - Fiat currency, 30 years
The Basel Accord established the current floating exchange of currency rates we are operating under today.
http://www.kwaves.com/fiat.htm
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beavith18 months, 4 weeks ago
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sorry to break into the liberal cumbya coicle joik, but what are you guys wringing your hands over?
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everything wrong with this country is part of the WallStreet Military Industrial Complex? and no finger pointing?
heh heh heh.
Spade. i get that you are left of center, but over something like the last month or two, you've become a vociferous flame thrower for the left. take a deep breath. get your perspective back. its OK to be left (because i say so). being a nutbar isn't OK (because I say so).
but lets look at a couple chestnuts...
Silverado? who gives a rats butt? compared to what's going on today, that's small potatoes.
organized crime? let me guess. you've got some pictures from the Grassy Knoll too...
oil companies making big bucks? Phillips Conoco took a $30B loss thanks to write downs since the price of oil collapsed. the other big oil are going to be facing the smae writedowns this quarter. who are you going to blame when they show staggering losses?
what's ctually more telling is the support that the DOW showed for Obama/Geithner's economic stimulus plan. the markets voted with their feet. unlimited risk will do that to a market.-
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jovial8 months, 4 weeks ago
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No need to start attacking people on an individual basis here, You are showing your immaturity by doing so. Read the story and then make comments about what you heard. Spadecaller is entitled to his opinion. If you have an opinion at odds with his opinion then voice it without calling people names.
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BB648 months, 4 weeks ago
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Jovial,
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So many of the problems we're facing in the next few years were created by the left. Our recession started with fuel costs going through the roof at about the same time ethanol started to increase. Costs went up drastically for food and fuel. Then the car market dropped and the housing boom ended. This was all cyclical. Get control of your energy and stop the wasteful spending on solving the "Global Warming" crisis and we would see a righting of the economy. Energy is a key. Since you won't let us drill (Barry already pulled leases and will continue to do so), we need an alternative. We have the current technology to produce fuel from coal as Will has attacked me for. It can be done safely and profitably so of course his side is against that.
Overall, we've been hearing from the media that we're in trouble. It started about the day before Clinton left office. It sells ad copy so they keep going. We're in one now. Most normal recessions will take between 12 and 18 months for things to move forward again. I think if Washington backs off, we would see recovery without spending a dime of the taxpayers money. -
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BB648 months, 4 weeks ago
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The sky is falling, the sky is falling....
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Times are difficult right now but why is that? American car sales dropped last year because gas prices went over $ 4/gallon. When Detroit started the cut backs the economy started to slow.
The whole problem leads back to gas prices and energy. We need to develop our own energy plan. The wind and solar crowd will not be happy but this isn't a solution we can implement within 25 years. Both require thousands of miles of land and trillions in infrastructure. Between the protests and legal issues, we're looking at a minimum of 10 years to actually begin. We could solve our gasoline issues within 24 months by building refineries that convert coal to gasoline. It can be done for around $40/barrel. While not the cheapest, the coal, jobs, profits and taxes would remain in the USA. Within 5 years we could convert the existing refineries also and become independent of all foreign oil. -
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jovial8 months, 4 weeks ago
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Here's a better example. Suppose a middle class 50,000 dollar a year person inherits a 1.5 million dollar estate from his uncle. There is no inheritance and the value of the property has dropped to 100,000 dollars. The person decides rather than to give up the house at a total loss, to borrow money to put up a small business in order to earn enough money to eventually pay off the loan. What Obama, the Democrats, and some wise Republicans have decided to do is invest in this country. To try to generate revenue and try to pay off this debt. It takes money to make money. if we just let all the Banks, people, and corporations fail, you will not like the outcome. Believe me it won't be pretty, even for those right now that think they're pretty well off.
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jimdoze8 months, 4 weeks ago
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I think it is high time we nationalize the buggy whip manufacturers and put the buggy whip makers back to work!
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For those not chosen by the then required federal bureaucrats (overseeing such an endeavor) to make buggy whips, you will be assigned the task of putting genies back into bottles. The first genie to capture is that of high-speed, high-bandwidth communications. Once that one is captured, it will be on to computers of every stripe. Then, finally, there is an old one that has for centuries helped those nasty capitalist entrepreneurs to disaggregate and arbitrage raw materials and labor. Yessss, you guessed it... transportation/shipping. Once we get those genies back in their respective bottles, that great hollow "thunking sound" will disappear and we will all live happily ever after. -
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Engnr8 months, 4 weeks ago
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You have a point, but if this government does not make America a place where business can grow, then we will all be standing in the breadline.
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I don't like the nationalizing the bank idea, that leads us right into socialism, but there does need to be some intelligent regulation and CRA must go away. I would recommend increase tax on Gasoline to encourage people to get smaller more efficient cars, Eliminate corporate Taxes, Remove a lot of over regulation on companies to provide an environment to lure corporations to locate here. Eliminate some of the safety and environmental restrictions on autos. Put some type of restriction on unions to keep them from blackmailing companies.
But I don't expect PO to call me anytime soon. -
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amazed8 months, 4 weeks ago
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JOvial asked me: And what do you propose to use to support our currency on the world market? Tax cuts?
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Propeller apparently ate my answer -- but I'm learning - I copied it before I submitted it.
How about REASONABLE regulation and a return to competitiveness? Then using some of this bailout money to entice industry back to this country?
Please explain to me how borrowing an additional two trillion dollars (950 billion for the bailout, 1 trillion that Geitner says he's going to borrow that doesn't even NEED Congressional approval ) is going to "support our currency on the world market"?
There is nothing in that bill that address the fundamental problem with our economy -- and that is that we don't produce much of anything anymore. GM and Ford both have thriving overseas divisions with autos that get better gas mileage than the hybrids that are being sold here. Why? Because US regulations will not allow them to be sold. These cars are not just being sold in third world countries, they are available in Europe -- so they're good enough for the Europeans (which seems to be what so many of the US citizens aspire to) but not good enough for here.
Get rid of the Fair Labor Act which will likely completely finish off American manufacturing.-
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jovial8 months, 4 weeks ago
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Here's my reply. Borrowing the 2 trillion will help us rebuild our own infrastructure. We have neglected it for too long. Just liken it to being a homeowner and you need a new roof. We have been trying to build roofs on other people's property, but we have neglected to build the roof on our own residence. The roof is falling in. Instead of biting the bullet and fixing the roof, some would like to sit around and bitch and moan about having to do it. They're compalining about the cost of the nails, and the cost of the ladder to gain access to the roof. They're compalining about the tiles. Then others are saying, "It's not raining in my part of the house, so why should I care?"
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mrlecher8 months, 4 weeks ago
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Of course foreign, oppressive governments can get their people to make things cheaper. They just don't pay them, keep them locked up and beat them severely if they don't keep up. Heck, you can't even call it slavery...you have to keep your slaves fed and clothed and healthy. In the countries the US Business deals with just replaced the dead worker with the next five year-old they buy for a few pennies from its starving parents.
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msdulisseComment removed: Hard Banned
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Antuan1311878 months, 4 weeks ago
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Enough of this mindless prattle!
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Every Republican knows the truth!
It's all Bush fault !
http://www.kroi.com.ua/ -
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