Livni: Give up parts of 'Land of Israel' »
Posted By dissent 10 months, 2 weeks ago in NewsJERUSALEM; Tzipi Livni, who hopes to be appointed Israel 's prime minister-designate, said Monday Israel must give up considerable territory in exchange for peace with the Palestinians, drawing a clear distinction with her rival, Benjamin Netanyahu .
She told a convention of American Jewish leaders, "we need to give up parts of the Land of Israel," using a term that refers to biblical borders that include today's Israel, the West Bank and Gaza, repeating her well-known view that pulling out of Palestinian areas would be for the good of Israel, to maintain it as a Jewish state.
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dissent
we live in a culture of war.
let's make it a culture of peace.
"my country is the world. and my religion is to ...
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Thinker2210 months, 2 weeks ago
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> ..Israel must give up considerable territory in exchange for peace with the Palestinians...
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Giving up land "in exchange for peace" did not, could not and will not work. The "land for peace" approach was tried many times in the past and it failed every single time for very simple and obvious reasons:
First, "land for peace" idea is UNFAIR. It assumes that only one side in the conflict is interested in peace and that this peaceful side is supposed to PURCHASE peace from the other, violent, side whle the violent side will get both land AND peace for free.
Second, "land for peace" idea is IRRATIONAL. It assumes that violent terrorists will somehow become peaceful after receiving huge payoffs (land and other goods) in response to terrorism and violence.
No sane person would believe that giving a gang of murderers half of the money in his wallet the wallet owner will be allowed to walk away with the rest of his money, his car keys and his Rolex.
It is clear that after receiving an ultimate proof (lands, etc.) that terrorism works the ONLY conclusion terrorists and their supporters will make is that more terrorism will work even better for as long as Israel will have some land left.
The ONLY possible way to achieve peace must be a FAIR and RATIONAL one. Peace can only be achieved when BOTH sides are interested in peace. Peace CAN NOT be purchased. Peace can only be offered IN EXCHANGE FOR PEACE. When peace (end of hostilities and mutual recognition) is achieved everything else will be negotiated.
Without achieving peace first giving away land will only generate more terrorism and more demands. Unilateral withdrawal from Gaza is a perfect example of such process.-
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hyperbola10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Ah my! More attemtps to justify zionist crimes against humanity from thinker. What else is new. There is only one solution that will bring peace.
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Why the Only Solution for Jews and Palestinians is a One State Solution
For a durable solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict, the Bible and the Quran must be de-politicized. In political terms, de-politicization means a single secular democratic state for Jews and Palestinians. In provoking the enmity of their age-old Muslim friends, Zionism has disserved the long-term interests of the Jewish people.
...For a durable solution to the Arab Israeli conflict, a single democratic and secular state for Jews and Palestinians needs to evolve. A single state promises a more durable long-term solution than the two-state solution, currently in vogue. The two-state solution is inherently unstable for four reasons:
1. First, demographically, a purely Jewish state is impossible to attain.... The Zionist dream of creating an exclusive state for the Jewish people in Palestine is unsustainable in the long-term...
2. Secondly, intractable issues stand in the way of a two-state solution: Jerusalem, borders, security for Israel and for Palestine, water rights, settlements, and the refugees’ right-of-return. Since the signing of the Oslo Agreement on September 13, 1993, none of the thorny issues has been resolved....
3. Thirdly, even if a miracle patches up a two-state agreement the extremists on both sides would undermine the agreement. The extremists believe that they are divinely ordained to keep-up the struggle until they control the entirety of the land....
4. Fourthly, the Arab masses w ill shun a Zionist state. Judging from Israel’s peace treaties with Egypt (March 26, 1979) and Jordan (October 26, 1994), relations among the Egyptian and Jordanian masses and Israelis failed to develop beyond small diplomatic missions.
Western democratic and secular ideals should inspire the development of a single, democratic, and secular state for Palestinians and Jews. There are three reasons in support of such a development:
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Thinker2210 months, 2 weeks ago
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Yes, it WAS tried before. No, this woman is far from being dumb or delusional. What she MEANT by saying that Israel would have to give up considerable territory in exchange for peace with the Palestinians, was that Israel would do it ONLY in accordance with the terms of the (still non-existing) NEGOTIATED MUTUALLY ACCEPTABLE PEACE AGREEMENT with the Palestinians.
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The alternative to giving away land will be creation of ONE state in Palestine where the resulting Arab majority and where the Jewish minority will be fully eliminated just as it was eliminated in other Arab states.
Livni is calling for the only possible realistic solution of the conflict: peace negotiations with the Palestinian leadership ABLE AND WILLING to end violence and negotiate peace. These negotiations will result in a peace agreement that will define the exact borders between Israel and the future Arab Palestinian state; the actions by both governments needed to fight terrorism; the terms of Israeli withdrawal from the lands to become a Palestinian state; the solution to the settlements, the compensation of settlers and Palestinian refugees; the questions of trade, customs, passports, visas, etc.
Yes, it was tried already in Oslo and it failed because the Oslo peace process was based on a false "land for peace" initiative. The future peace MUST be based on a "peace for peace" principle.
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Georgia5010 months, 2 weeks ago
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Thinker,
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I guess she just doesn't get it. The only concession terrorists have in mind from Israel is its right to exist as a sovereign nation. There's not enough land on planet earth available to assuage the terrorists as long as one Jew anywhere exercises self government.
Here's a better idea...have Hasbro design a line of stuffed Jewish dolls and ship them by the thousands to the territories. Then the terrorists can vent their rage harmlessly.
We could also have the UN sponsor seething exercises for them....
Seethe in...
Seethe out...
Seethe in...
Seethe out...-
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hyperbola10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Zionist racism deserves the same end as white south african racism and nazi "aryan master race" racism. Time to get the zionist albatross off America's neck.
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Americans are Funding and Supporting Genocide by Israel
It is no wonder why most Arabs despise the U.S. If this country really wanted peace, we would be impartial and stop supporting a militant state that commits genocide against helpless women and children. The choice is ours to make. Without U.S. support, the nation of Israel would have to change its ways if it wanted the international support that would be essential for its survival if America stopped shipping its military supplies to them. This is something that President Obama needs to look at. Apartheid is thriving in Israel. When will it be time to practice morality in World Affairs? One South Africa is enough, and even that country had to revaluate its practices. Israel needs to start looking within if it desires to survive. At the current birth rates of Israeli’s and Palestinian’s, soon Israel will be heavily outnumbered and at the mercy of the same people they are torturing now, it is only a matter of time.
Some may call me an anti-Semite for writing this, but the last I heard, Palestinians were a Semitic people also. I don’t wish to see Israel fail, but if they continue to use force rather than diplomacy, I see no other outcome.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/02/10/american...
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Dionys10 months, 2 weeks ago
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"The land was originally theirs so why not fight for it."
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Because it wasn't originally theirs? Because it belonged to the Egyptians and the Jews were primarily a pastoral group of nomads?
Lots of reasons.
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html
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Justice4All10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The problem is that Israel does not want peace. They want all of Palestine and consider non-Isralies to be sub-human animals. Why negioate when you can just exterminate anyone in your way. After all they have the best American weapons at their disposal.
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Israel is a scar on Americas reputation. -
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