God: Effectively Non-Existent »
Posted By RickyDawkins 8 months, 3 weeks ago in ReligionWhy should we simply sit back and accept the claim of apologists that what they believe in is not subject to "observation, measurement, and experiment"?
It seems to me that if you're going to declare scientists helpless before the absence and irrelevance of the gods, you ought to declare likewise for ALL of god's translators and interpreters.
Be consistent when you announce who has purview over all religious belief, because making god unobservable and immeasurable makes EVERYONE incapable of saying anything meaningful at all about it.
This is where the "Science has no opinion on religion" argument leads us: to an atheist's world, where there are no activities by a god that matter, where at best people can claim that their god is aloof and unknowable, admitting in their own premises that they have no knowledge at all of him.
-PZ Myers
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RickyDawkins
Atheism can be either the rejection of theism, or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of ...
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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So where did these confident promoters of "GOD" get their information? Shouldn't they be admitting that their knowledge of this elusive cosmic beast is nonexistent?
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We have the supposed histories of these believers, and they are full of material actions. Gods throw lightning bolts to smite unbelievers, annihilate whole cities and nations, raise the dead, slay whole worlds of people, suspend the laws of physics to halt the sun in the sky, create the whole Earth in less than a week, help footballers score goals, and even manifest themselves in physical bodies and walk about, doing amazing magic tricks. Wow, O Lord, please do vaporize a city with a column of holy fire before my eyes — I can observe that, I can measure that, I can even do experiments with the rubble. I will be REALLY impressed.
Oh, but wait: it can only be an unobservable, undetectable exercise in mass destruction? And he's not doing that sort of thing anymore? How about pulling a rabbit out of this hat? No, sorry, all done. God can't do anything anymore where people might actually notice, or worse, record the act and figure out how the tricks are done. This is awfully convenient.
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/02/effecti...-
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CRYMTYPHON8 months, 3 weeks ago
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I take it, Mr. Dawkins, that once again you failed to win the lottery.
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If the person who did win would please post us, we could have
an alternative view of providence and the measurability of divinity.
Also, if they could send some cash that would be good too and would go a long way
to proving that someone up there likes some of us . -
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Pecossam8 months, 3 weeks ago
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RickyDawkins,
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The atheist has the best reason of all to pray --- he better pray he is right.
"....the FOOL has said in his heart, 'There is no GOD.' '
"Religion without science is lame; science without religion is blind." Albert Einstein
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slate8 months, 3 weeks ago
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I’m not a super religious man, though I do have a belief in something larger than us.
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The other day I was thinking; we know that when those of faith are at a crossroads of some form of difficulty, that not even talking to those they know and love best can
to give them comfort, they turn to whatever God, Spirituality, religion for comfort.
Ricky, what do you and other atheists do when you feel like you are at the end of your rope and the despair is beyond anything that can be fixed by communication with other humans?
Another thing, where does love, goodness or even evil come from? Is it merely a chemical process in the brain or are their sources from another place?-
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RedRiverJ8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Interesting. Why so obsessed with something you don't believe in Ricky? Who are you trying to convince that God is a myth? Others or yourself.
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Admitting one is related to monkeys gives me little comfort. If Darwin is correct why are there still monkeys? -
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Dionys8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Ricky, what do you and other atheists do when you feel like you are at the end of your rope and the despair "
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They turn to that morally and ethically beautiful baby of science: LSD.
" Another thing, where does love, goodness or even evil come from? Is it merely a chemical process in the brain or are their sources from another place?"
Evil comes from Topeka, KS and goodness from Hershey, PA. -
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Ricky, what do you and other atheists do when you feel like you are at the end of your rope and the despair is beyond anything that can be fixed by communication with other humans?"
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHPOzQzk9Qo
"where does love, goodness or even evil come from"
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/02/12/the-scie... -
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Coatl8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"what do you and other atheists do when you feel like you are at the end of your rope and the despair is beyond anything that can be fixed by communication with other humans? "
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I normaly talk to myself, and it's quite relaxing. After all it's the same that all people do when they pray. But I really preffer o talk to a dog, they usually put that face as if they were understanding you. They know that you feel sad and they feel sad for you and usually want to cheer you up, that's why I love dogs.
"where does love, goodness or even evil come from?"
Those are all our interpretations of certain actions. To me the invasion of Irak was evil, to some was a good thing. Some people can beat their wifes or their children badly and clami they still love them, my interpretation of what love is, is totally different from that.
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Dionys8 months, 3 weeks ago
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" Why should we simply sit back and accept the claim of apologists that what they believe in is not subject to "observation, measurement, and experiment"?"
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Why should we simply sit back and accept the claim of scientists that everything that "exists" must be quantifiable, measureable and be founded in empiric proof.
Or why must we all simply sit back and accept the claim of scientists that Quarks exist simply because they say they do? Don't get me wrong -- I believe in Quarks. But I don't have independent, quantifiable, empiric, INDEPENDENT proof of their existence. Neither does Ricky, but I bet he believes in them, too.-
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Do you believe in Cells?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cell_(biology) -
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Tangent0018 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Why should we simply sit back and accept the claim of scientists that everything that "exists" must be quantifiable, measureable and be founded in empiric proof."
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You don't have to.
You've brought up the subject of quarks before. Science asserts their existence because there is evidence from particle accelerators that is consistent and repeatable.
Again, science is not about proof, it is about evidence.
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Ricky:
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I can't see the wind yet I can see what it does. I can feel it's effect on me and I can witness its strength or gentleness.
Now if I had see it to believe it I never would. We call it wind, I call it a gift from God for without it. Clouds wouldn't move, seeds wouldn't be spread as readily as they are, many things wouldn't happen.
How do you explain the wind ???? What makes it ???? Why does it blow South or North, East or West.
Here is another question for ya ??? Why does the land of Israel produce so well for the Israelis when it did not for others??? Why is the produce they grow so much better than the rest of the worlds ????
Ya know you have more faith than I do. Because it takes a lot more faith to believe that everything came about by chance. That from inanimate slime man evolved and so perfectly made to survive in this world. That there was just the right mixtures of gases and water for us to be able to breathe and survive, that the sun was placed perfectly so we did not burn up or freeze, that the earth was right for growing plants and food for us and animals, that the animals did not destroy us while we were evolving into our present forms.
I could go on and on. But that is pointless.
We were created by God almighty and are his children. If you choose not to believe, that it is your right. It still doesn't change the fact that we are.
Thanks for the invite-
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Tangent0018 months, 3 weeks ago
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"How do you explain the wind ???? What makes it ???? Why does it blow South or North, East or West."
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Wind is the result of the sun heating the Earth unevenly. Warm air rises and cooler air rushes in underneath it. Bingo! Wind! It's basically the same thermal engine that drives ocean currents. -
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Tangent0018 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Because it takes a lot more faith to believe that everything came about by chance. "
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I have to take issue with this one. It's a common straw-man argument. No scientists worth their salt says life happened by 'chance'. In fact, the current trend of thought is that given the right circumstances life is inevitable. Why is life so perfectly suited to the conditions on Earth? Because all the life here arose on Earth. I'm reminded of an analogy by the great Douglas Adams: ". . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!'"
BTW, there are plenty of imperfections that tend to point away from divine creation. Why would God create a sun that can eventually kill us with skin cancer? Why is the vast majority of water on Earth undrinkable? Why did God create the Earth with a wobble that periodically sends us into ice ages? Why are 95% of the species that ever walked, flew, crawled, oozed or swam extinct? -
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"The two major driving factors of large scale global winds are the differential heating between the equator and the poles (difference in absorption of solar energy between these climate zones), and the rotation of the planet."
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind#Cause
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pokydoke8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Just because you can't explain something does not mean there is no explanation. Life is so complex there must be a god,I've heard that many times. Psychologists tell us that humans seem to be hard wired to believe in supernatural beings. Any comments on that?
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Dionys8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Psychologists tell us that humans seem to be hard wired to believe in supernatural beings. Any comments on that?"
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Sure. They also tell us that we're hardwired to be creative (some of us, anyhow) and competitive. Does that mean our creations or competitions are any less real?
Plus if we're hard wired to believe in supernatural (or natural) beings, does that mean that they neccesarily do not exist, or that the neccesarily do exist?
Coming at it from a non-dualistic perspective -- in order for no-God to exist, God must also simultaneously exist. If there is a state of "no-God" there must therefore be a complimentary state of "God." Just as particles are paired. -
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