Story Comments
Posted by: Beau7890 9 months, 3 weeks ago
This page is a permanent archive of the comment below and its replies.
To view this comment in the context of the full discussion for the story, use this link.
-
82%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
You're absolutely right, and not just about the headline.
It's odd that so many who have no problem giving business tax breaks don't want the government to relieve business of the burden of providing healthcare.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 3) (recursion depth : 1) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply
loading ...
-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive53 Replies
-
91%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Your insurance company isn't a faceless bureaucracy? You find it affordable?
Everyone else (who has insurance) doesn't already have to use one just like it?(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 5) (recursion depth : 3) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive14 Replies
-
73%
Dionys9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
"And it won't matter how much money you have, you'll have to stand in the same line with the illegal aliens."
You mean people will have EQUAL ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE?!?!?
OMG! How will we kill off the poor people more quickly if that comes to pass?(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 7) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
86%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
You have substandard healthcare right now, and you pay more for it than you will under a government plan.
(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
75%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Sure, anytime, though of course you don't know what the plan will be.
Here's another reminder: there are studies showing that your health will be better if you're optimistic than if you believe everything will get worse.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 11) (recursion depth : 9) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
loading ...
-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive
-
-
-
-
-
-
86%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
I guess we won't know for sure who sucks more until we've tried government healthcare instead of private insurance, will we Locky?
But we do know that private insurance sucks. We know that we're the only developed country that doesn't cover all its citizens. And we know that all the other countries, the UN, and WHO all believe our system doesn't work as well as those with universal healthcare.
I'm not sure how you know that Obama isn't giving anyone more say than the insurance company under his plan, which has not yet been revealed. Are you a mind reader?(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 7) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
80%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
No, Obama's plan isn't Daschle's plan. Have you heard him say that?
Competition doesn't seem to be making private insurers offer anything different from each other in terms of which preexisting conditions they deny treatment for, how much they charge in premiums and how much you pay in deductibles and out-of-pocket costs. So what difference does it make to you whether you have "choice" that consists of no choice or a government-mandated program?
This is just arguing against your statement, by the way, which is wrong. Obama has not advocated a mandatory single-payer plan that would cause insurers to become obsolete. (I only make this argument because I'd like that kind of plan.)(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
100%
Beau78909 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
You certainly realize there are more problems in California than insurance, right?
One has to do with the fact that anyone able to raise tens of millions of dollars (and there are a lot of those in California) can put any measure, no matter how stupid, on the ballot.
Another has to do with Prop. 13 from 1978, limiting the ability of California to raise the money it needs to operate. Prop. 13 also heralded the misguided "taxpayer's revolt" resulting in California's inability to tax anything without voter's direct consent on a referendum.
Are you a fan of true democracy, where the people, no matter how ill-informed, run government directly? Then you LOVE California.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 11) (recursion depth : 9) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive
-
-
-
-
-
100%
wtagg9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
You seem to be suggesting that the way to improve government departments is to privatize them. Am I right?
(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 7) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
-
-
86%
Goppy9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Locky, The reason I'm looking forward to it is because it will do so much good to help our NATION and our nation's BUSINESS CLIMATE.
Don't Right Wingers claim to be on the side of BUSINESS?
What could be more helpful to American Business' than to alleviate this tremendous burden.
In my position, I have the opportunity to meet with and consult Company Presidents, CEO's, CFO's, and Small Business Owners.
They ALL ... EVERY ONE ... tell the same story ... that Health Care costs are killing them.
They can't hire people because of their Health Care Cost considerations.
They can't expand because of Heath Care Cost considerations.
It's an untenable situation.
Only those with their head's in the sand ... or those who paint their political world view with Red Herring Code Words ... are opposed to Health Care Reform.
Oh ... and those who work for extraordinarily large and lucrative companies who DEMAND and GET concessions from Health Care Providers.
For instance, Procter and Gamble and General Electric can negotiate HUGE concessions from Health Care providers - which the Health Insurers concede to get these large contracts.
The Health Insurer's, so as to recoup any perceived loss, in turn RAISE rates on every other moderately large business, small business, micro-business, and independent contractors.
In other words ... you pay more ... and get less.
To summarize ... Our nations' Health Care System is in complete collapse and is contributing to our nation's economic meltdown.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 5) (recursion depth : 3) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive22 Replies
-
86%
Goppy9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
That is your opinion ... but I'm assessing that your opinion is coming from the furthest reaches of the extremist right.
For instance, Republican Governor Crist of Florida even campaigned last week with Mr. Obama in Florida.
.
Many Conservatives like Obama's pragmatic approach - and find that it is less 'Orwellian' as compared to Hillary Clinton's approach.
.
But of course, there will always be those who look to their own self-interests.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 7) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive20 Replies
-
86%
Goppy9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
LOL!! When you say that Crist is NOT a Conservative ... you say more about YOUR position ... relative to Conservatism than Crist's.
Crist is a Republican. Maybe he's not Morally Vacant ... as most Right Wing Extremists tend to be ... but I see that as a GOOD sign for progress within the Republican Party ... not a reason to sneer.
And you demean Obama as being more of the same .... if that's true ... why didn't you demean George W. Bush when he and his fellow Conservatives bankrupted our nation with massive deficit spending combined with CUTS in Government revenue?
Why didn't you demean Ronald Reagan when he did the same ... VASTLY increased Government spending while simultaneously cutting Government Revenue.
At least Obama wants to fund his health care approach with funding ... coming from Americans who have benefitted the most from years of Republican gifts of Welfare.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
80%
Goppy9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Hey, why stop at Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter as objects of your derision and fault finding for the Economic Meltdown that occurred on a Republican's watch?
Why not blame FDR? Or ... Grover Cleveland ... or even the FIRST Democrat ... Andrew Jackson?
Just lop all Democrats together and pour your hatred onto that mix.
Because obviously, your hatred for Democrats exceeds your love for America.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 11) (recursion depth : 9) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
83%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Where do you get any of your information about what Obama wants to do with healthcare?
He has not yet announced his current plan.
Before going off the deep end, you might want to look at his plan during the campaign, which will probably be a starting point. It's not mandatory, doesn't limit anyone's options and gives those who do choose a public plan the same care as our legislators--which all of them say is a very good plan, and which you can't match by buying a plan from a private insurer.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 13) (recursion depth : 11) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
100%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
My comment directly above this was supposed to be a reply to yours that begins "Obama is not providing a good solution." But Propeller is misplacing comments again.
In answer to your reply about Jackson and JFK:
Andrew Jackson opened the doors of the White House so everyone--even those you'd consider unemployed leeches on society--could come in and eat cheese and discuss their views with the president.
JFK said Americans needed to sacrifice for their country, as you pointed out. That's what Obama asked has asked us to do in all of his speeches since the inauguration, as we must sacrifice in order to correct the current crisis. It means the wealthy and powerful paying a little bit more so the poor and unempowered will be able to have a basic standard of livign that includes decent education and healthcare.
You've laughed at him when he's said that, as you apparently don't want to sacrifice for your country. And in a comment you made earlier, you said about Obama's plans: "It's not change-- it's more of the same!"
If that's true, what's your problem? You haven't offered anything else but the same healthcare provided by private insurers and subsidized by employers.
Feel free to post again when you stop contradicting yourself.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 13) (recursion depth : 11) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
loading ...
-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive
-
-
-
-
-
100%
GehlLady9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Goppy,
I live in Florida, and I can tell you Crist is not even close to being a conservative, one of the reasons I was glad to see him elected. However, he has dropped the ball on many of the pledges that I thought would make him a good governor.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 10) (recursion depth : 8) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
60%
Goppy9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Is he ... or is he not ... a Republican?
He may not be the KIND of Republican you like ... a follower of the Republican's Leader ... Rush Limbaugh ... but you simply cannot deny he is a Republican.
That ... by definition ... makes him a Conservative.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 11) (recursion depth : 9) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
75%
GWHayduke9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
RINOs are Republicans who use thought rather than ideology to guide their decision making process.
(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 13) (recursion depth : 11) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive
-
-
-
100%
GehlLady9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Goppy,
I may not be as politically savvy as you are, but I thought conservatism was an outlook, a point of view, not a political party? Granted, most republicans call themselves conservatives, but Bush was not, Crist is not, to name a few. I'm not republican, but apparently I lean conservative with some liberal views. Hmmmm. I call myself a down to earth American with some common sense, I leave the labels to you guys...........
Btw,
Why are there conservative democrats then? LOL, do ya'll call them DINOs? Instead of RINOs?
Sheesh, LOL(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 12) (recursion depth : 10) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
Neutral
Goppy9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
I call conservative Democrats ... Democrats.
But then, I'm not as capable of twisting definitions and devising ever changing parameters as you and Locky seem to be.
If you ask me, that's a sign of duplicity.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 13) (recursion depth : 11) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
100%
GehlLady9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Goppy,
Make up your mind,
" Is he ... or is he not ... a Republican?
... but you simply cannot deny he is a Republican.
That ... by definition ... makes him a Conservative."
If a republican by definition is a conservative, then how do you explain democrat conservatives?
When your own logic is too thin for even yourself to believe in, you insult me.
Sounds like your typical behavior to me.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 14) (recursion depth : 12) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
Neutral
Goppy9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
You're being silly.
I'm calling Democrats Democrats and Republicans Republicans.
I really can't fathom why you are confused by this direct statement ... and NOT confused by your multi-tier pretzel logic.
If a REPUBLICAN such as Crist calls himself a Conservative ... who are YOU to claim otherwise.
Although this sounds like your typical (arrogant) behavior to me.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 15) (recursion depth : 13) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
71%
ADAGUY9 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
"Medicare and Medicaid are BANKRUPT!!."
It's almost laughable that you would make this remark. How did Medicare become so broke? It wan't that way 10 years ago. The VA health plan isn't broke! Why is medicare broke?
Your hero, G W Bush and his plan to overhaul medicare. THATS WHY!(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
loading ...
-
-
-
-
-
-
50%
beavith19 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
let me summarize your comment.
we can make affordable health care affordable by making someone else pay for it.
OPM doesn't mean its affordable. its just means its socialized (in the generic use of socialization, not the big S version of socialization).
this isn't from the far right, the far left, the far up or the far down.
it just is.
a step back would help too. back in FDRs time health care amounted to palliative care, then folks just die. nowadays, healthcare means everything and the kitchen sink, damn the cost.
Huckabee (yeah... OK... a rightie) has a solid view that working towards prevention is the only real way to bring costs under control, but that's not as viscerally satisfying as running our current system through a meat grinder and hoping something good comes out the other side.
and to save you a hunk of typing, no, this is not moral vacuity. its a clinical approach to reality.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 6) (recursion depth : 4) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
83%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Are private insurers working towards prevention to bring costs under control?
Who has a better chance at doing that: a centralized government plan or a number of private plans? (Who would make private insurers do that rather than simply raising their costs?)
And who do you think pays for most of your healthcare costs under the current system? Businesses--or as you say, "someone else."(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 7) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
50%
beavith19 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
actually, many insurers DO offer prevention discounts, prevention advice and proactive care.
seriously... do you say centralized government is the way to go? ask 30 million dead Ukrainians how central govt authority worked for them. this is a frightening option.
business pays? you bet. but as a member of a small business, our HSA has worked fabulously for me and the company. too bad we can't do HSAs nationally thanks to resistance by those of who's name we must not speak.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 8) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
67%
Beau78909 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Ukranians? No one's talking about Communism except a few hysterical talk-show hosts and the zombies who believe everything they say.
Centralized government is the way to go for some things, yes.
Healthcare's one of them. Foreign policy is another. Agricultural policy is yet another. So's advanced research that explores technologies not yet profitable enough for private industry to look into.
You're talking about medical savings accounts? As they're currently set up, they're a huge scam by those administering them. If you overestimate how much you'll spend at the beginning of the year when you choose how much to contribute, you lose that money at the end of the year. (Of course, if you underestimate, you're screwed too.) There is no logic behind that except for to pay off the companies in charge of "holding" your HSA money.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
67%
Beau78909 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Funny thing...I just saw this article about the banking crisis Ukraine is experiencing right now, shortly after adapting Western "free-market" style economic policies:
Ukraine Teeters as Its Citizens
Blame Banks and Government
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/world/europe/02u...
From the article:
What is more, the Kremlin would be able to hold up Ukraine as an example of what happens when former Soviet republics follow a Western model of free-market democracy.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 9) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
100%
Goppy9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Yes, it is beginning to look as though Capitalism's worst enemy is not Communism .... it's the Capitalist Elites who are in charge.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 10) (recursion depth : 8) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
-
-
-
-
50%
beavith19 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
some of this is rather misleading.
unions demanded healthcare. and after some battles (strikes, lockouts, walkouts, sickouts, etc) management realized that there was no sense fighting. management and union management came to an accomodation. under normal circumstances, the accomodation could go on forever. in today's financial collapse, however, the accomodation has proven to be a disaster.
if there was some way to unwind the promises (and expense) that each made, maybe the car Co's could save themselves.
they can't or they won't. Ford is limping on by offering stock (nearly worthless) and cash for its VEBA payment. GM and Chrysler can't even do that.
they are zombies that can't function without gov't handouts.
rather than make this the key to universal healthcare, maybe Chapter 11 was and still is the way to go.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 3) (recursion depth : 3) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
71%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
unions demanded healthcare. and after some battles (strikes, lockouts, walkouts, sickouts, etc) management realized that there was no sense fighting. management and union management came to an accomodation. under normal circumstances, the accomodation could go on forever. in today's financial collapse, however, the accomodation has proven to be a disaster.
There's that unrestricted free market you like so much. Except with labor exerting its force rather than management. You wouldn't want to interfere with the almighty supply and demand, would you?(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 4) (recursion depth : 4) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
50%
beavith19 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
supply and demand of what? cars? that's what it should have been. when they (both Mgt and Union) decided that the companies would be the golden goose, it was up to them, both, to not kill it.
they chose poorly.
besides, its not my call. its theirs.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 5) (recursion depth : 5) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
83%
Beau78909 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
Supply and demand of labor, which is a commodity provided by workers.
I guess you don't like it when it's the businesses getting screwed by suppliers, do you?
Neither do consumers when they're the ones getting screwed.
Suppliers always have the upper hand, when the commodity in question is a necessity.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 6) (recursion depth : 6) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
33%
beavith19 months, 3 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
what? now you want to paraphrase Marx in his Commuinst Manifesto?
this isn't about class war. this isn't the proletariat vs the bourgeoisie. this is about an incestuous relationship between management and the unions and how we get to pick up the pieces.
and the premier solution, in this thread, is to provide universal healthcare.
you and i can go back and forth on this. my point is that using the dysfunctional US auto industry as the reason FOR universal healthcare isn't the great argument that, say, you or Goppy would have us believe. it costs more than steel? BFD. overhead costs more than steel.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 7) (recursion depth : 7) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
75%
Beau78909 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
If Marx said that in the Communist Manifesto, he was correct. But I doubt he talked that way about supply and demand.
There's an even closer incestuous relationship between shareholders and management, and we've been picking up the pieces from that one since the '80s. Deregulation and lax enforcement of markets allowed that.
I don't think either of us is saying that the auto industry's problems with benefits for workers is the best argument for universal care, though those was one tack Goppy took.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 8) (recursion depth : 8) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
100%
Goppy9 months, 2 weeks ago
This comment is below the standard viewing threshold View It »
You are ignoring the competitive angle I was presenting and trying to portray my argument in your own vacuum.
The point was that, in a Global competitive market - OUR car makers have had to produce cars with an overhead that NO OTHER NATION'S COMPANIES are burdened with.
You might say that, people who oppose a national health care plan WANT to tie the arms of our nation's businesses.
.
That is really sad - another sign that Ideology is is more important to these people than the 'health' of our nation.
.(comment_max_expanded_depth : 55) (comment depth : 8) (recursion depth : 8) (max_comment_reply_depth : 40) (comment_max_render_depth : 55)Reply loading ...
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
People Who Liked This Comment (9)
donald51
Pupi
fsev41
Goppy
Will1313
CRYMTYPHON
DenCuddy
stalemateSubmit a Story
Advertisement
Story Tags ?
healthcare_facts health_care budget obama politics healthcare healthcare_reform
Hey! If you Sign In, you can add tags to this story!
Propping This Article
view all »
Dropping This Article
view all »
AOL Health Links
Categories
Also Submitted By
No one else has submitted this story.
Post Reply
You are not signed in to Propeller.com. Please sign in to post a reply.