Comments for Fighting the Lobbyists Opposed to Health Care Change »
Posted By Spadecaller 9 months, 1 week ago in Political NewsWith a Congress under attack by lobbyists from the health care industries, can meaningful health care reform survive the rigors of the legislature's gauntlet? Coming after recent years in which wealth has become more concentrated at the top of the income scale, the President’s health care plan introduces a politically volatile edge to the Congressional debate over domestic priorities. Adding to the fury of those that oppose health care reform, President Obama proposes further tax increases on the affluent to help pay for more accessible and affordable health care for all Americans, calling for more stringent limits on the benefits of itemized deductions taken by the wealthiest households. Fear mongering Republicans insist that burdening the richest Americans will only add to the current economic malaise. The battle lines have been drawn. Those fearing what they will lose have declared war on those fearing what they may fail to get.
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
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Perhaps the best way to ensure fair representation in a Congress predominantly owned by lobbyists is to find a way of suspending all their health care insurance benefits that we, the American taxpayers, provide them.
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Let them pay for their premiums or be without insurance coverage like the constituents that they allegedly support. Let them suffer from the high cost of health care and let them face financial ruin due to terminal and catastrophic illness.
And while they learn to share the same pitfalls due to the uncertainty of illness that most Americans have been enduring for years, perhaps they may learn to do the jobs that they were elected to do -- to represent the best interests of all Americans. -
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
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Doesn't "co-payment" sound so fair?
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At the doctor's office they are always so nice when they tell you that you have a co-payment. Aren't you lucky! Not everyone has co-payments. What an honor. My wife no longer has co-payments; because she no longer has health insurance.-
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Spadecaller9 months ago
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While some people will use the er as a substitute for visiting the dr, it is a sad statement on our health care system when some people can not even qualify for health insurance due to pre-existing conditions and their companies do not provide coverage.
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People like you and Georgia are too self centered and greedy to understand and appreciate how horrible it is that some Americans are forced into these circumstances not because they are guilty or negligent.
You have no compassion or understanding for the health care crisis this nation is facing. Fortunately, you are now the minority and will soon become even a smaller minority as more people lose their insurance benefits.
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Newperson9 months ago
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Georgia 50
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Thats a crap thing to say. Why would you say such a thing thats just mean!
You should be carful what you say about someone else you never know what kind of bad luck you might have someday.
Sometimes bad things happen to us all. How long would you keep your ins. if you could no longer pay for it.
Would you ask for help or go off and die. You would ask for help and I don't think you would feel like that if the shoe was on your foot NP-
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Georgia509 months ago
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Pardon me for stating the FACT that when an indigent person enters a taxpayer-funded health care facility, they cannot be turned away.
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Do all facts cause you to break out in a nasty liberal rash, or just health care facts?
Also, for any heath care you are charged for in a taxpayer funded facility, pay merely $5 on each individual bill (lab, x-ray, etc.) each month and the health care provider must allow you to keep paying without recourse.
Hey libs...if all else fails, move to California. There they cannot and do not turn away illegal aliens. Might as well get your ENTITLEments, too, eh? -
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Charlson9 months, 1 week ago
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What I can't understand are the people who are not wealthy and are struggling just to pay for health care and buying into the lies propagated by the rich through their lobbyists to get richer while the rest of us get poorer. Only shows how gullible and stupid these folks are.
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
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There is an epidemic of stupidity and lack of common sense. Some places are worse than others.
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I remember moving from up north (NY) to Florida back in 1989. I went to work and during my lunch break I stopped at the motor vehicle bureau to transfer my license to Florida. The mvb was empty. I asked the clerk for the road test to receive my new license.
She asked me, "Do you have an appointment.?" I looked around at the large empty office and replied,"no". As she looked at me saying nothing, I explained to her that I was on a break between appointments and that if the wait wasn't too long I would wait for the next available appointment. She nodded okay and I sat down in a chair about 10 feet away from her.
Forty minutes later, I looked at my watch and realized that I had little time left to wait. I stood before the clerk again and said, "I will have to make an appointment, it's getting late." She replied, "When would you like an appointment?" "The soonest one available", I answered promptly.
At which point she said, the office is empty today, you can have one now." Scratching my head I walked through a door, met the road test worker, and 15 minutes later, I left the building with my new license. Looking back at her, I realized something that I never really appreciated; some people are freaking stupid. -
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Georgia509 months, 1 week ago
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No Chuckie. Stupid and gullible are people like you who bought into the "rich get richer and poor get poorer" brazen class warfare lie in the first place.
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Your premise is false, so you cannot hope to stumble upon the correct path in this discussion. Although I admit that once in a while, even a blind pig can find an acorn. Heck...even Obama can find Acorn. -
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rimbaud9 months ago
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We may not be wealthy, now, but we don't blame that on the rich, and if we should get wealthy, we don't want to be penalized for our hard work in getting there. We don't need your f'ing noblesse oblige, government charity!
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,188...
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GWHayduke9 months, 1 week ago
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What I find perplexing with all of the flack concerning the "socializing" of medicine is that the logic is based on nothing but ideology.
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It is well documented everywhere, even JAMA, that countries with an organized, methodical means of providing care to its citizens have higher taxes, BUT also have higher life expectancy, greater quality of life, HIGHER WAGES and companies less burdened with insurance and health care worries.
Its funny that people are filled with fear of concepts that have very little likelihood coming to fruition.
But then again, with Mullah Limbaugh providing their leadership, we can expect more obstructionism from success at the hands of the Republican Taliban.-
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Beau78909 months, 1 week ago
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Has anyone studied whether the increase in taxes resulting from universal healthcare in other countries is greater or less than the average amount people pay for insurance from employers or on their own? I'd be curious to see that result.
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rimbaud9 months ago
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One thing for sure about the result is that healthcare in the USA costs more and delivers less health: but that's just statistically... If you can afford it, you can get "high-class" health care even in Great Britain. Private medicine does not die just because public medicine is available. I'm sure you will always be able to buy "supplemental" insurance plans providing for your personal preferences: the costs may be lower when we have a healthier population overall.
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Wikipedia: Today, there are more than 3,000 people employed in the Harley Street area, in clinics, medical practices, and hospitals such as The London Clinic.
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Georgia509 months, 1 week ago
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GW,
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Adjusted for homicide and suicide, which have nothing to do with healthcare, American healthcare is superior to Canadian healthcare.
The world's rich don't fly to America and pay cash for heathcare because our system is broken. They do so because our system is the only one that rewards healthcare innovation.-
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Georgia509 months ago
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Now adjust for social parameters.
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Poor and indigent who spend their money on booze, cigarettes, and lottery tickets, which apparently gets confused with nutritional baby formula in some sectors of American society, occasionally has less than optimal results. I know...astonishing, huh?
Show me a study that measures infant mortality from country to country that delineates by social strata, such as two-parent households, etc., and I think you'll find that American healthcare does just find.
Heck...I'll even settle for a thealthcare study not conducted somewhere in the bowels of the anti-American, pro-Socialist UN. It helps to produce objective studies when and where there's no political axe to grind. -
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
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Georgia
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Your information has been proven false and is outdated. There are many individual specialists that stand above the rest and come from all countries. Americans also visit other countries to see doctors that they feel are better qualified and more affordable even with their U.S. purchased health insurance.
Regardless of the country that one chooses to receive medical attention, one always needs to search out and choose a facility and doctors that they are confident in. It is true that all countries have good facilities and bad, all countries have highly skilled doctors as well as those who are poorly trained and running less than desirable operations.
Those that believe that the United States is the only place to receive quality care at reasonable costs are truly mistaken and ignorant of the facts.
The USA has an infant mortality rate of 5 per 1,000, the same as Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Malta. Of 33 developed countries, America is just above Latvia, the bottom of the group.
Last year, 750,000 Americans traveled abroad for care, according to estimates by the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions, a Washington-based research center that's part of the consulting firm Deloitte & Touche.
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Endoscopy9 months ago
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What you ignore is that the higher wages are going to pay for higher taxes. You need to get a breakdown on the difference between the higher wages and the increased taxes.
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You cite that countries with socialized medicine have a higher life expectancy. That goes contrary to what I have been reading. For instance Britain had several months ago tole their people that in order to cut health care costs people with Arthritis and Heart Disease will have to self medicate. Medicare now pays for treatments deemed safe and effective. The stimulus bill changes that and apply a cost- effectiveness standard set by the Federal Council. The Federal Council is modeled after a U.K. board discussed in Daschle’s book. This board approves or rejects treatments using a formula that divides the cost of the treatment by the number of years the patient is likely to benefit. Treatments for younger patients are more often approved than treatments for diseases that affect the elderly, such as osteoporosis. Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.
Do you think that that is how the elderly should dealt with? How about when you get old. Not allowed to have treatment for a problem because you will not have a long enough life to be cost effective. That is the way to have a longer and better life? This is the plan being put in motion and YOU will have to live with it.
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jordan119 months, 1 week ago
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I can see it now. All huddled in secret meetings, conducting focus groups for finding the most fear inducing catch phrases before setting on their propaganda trail. 'Business' as usual. They already have that "socialism" word out there, & of course the lie that government will let all the elderly die. What's next? Can't wait to see what the propaganda peddlers come up with now that "socialism" hasn't dented Obama's popularity.
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
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jordan: Yup! I also see the writing and the usual rhetoric on the wall...
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They will soon be telling Americans crap like this: when "the government takes over" administering the health care services people who get seriously ill WILL end up on long waiting lists before they get a chance to see a specialist.
Better get the shovel ready! The PHDs will be out there. PHD means "Piled higher and Deeper"-
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rimbaud9 months ago
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To insure their profitability, Insurance companies chase healthy people and try to exclude risks. Until the benefits and risks of the whole population are spread evenly among them, insurance companies will not be able to charge a premium that guarantees their profitability.
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rimbaud9 months ago
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Sometimes it's hard to swallow medicine that is good even for you (for everyone, for that matter)... Socialism has probably lost its bite as a fear-inducing label, especially when applied to Medicine: maybe they need some anecdotal horror stories of bad outcomes.
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StevieGee9 months, 1 week ago
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Great post Spade. What we need is single payer, government provided health care for everybody. It really does work in many countries around the world. The losers would be the insurance companies and drug companies. The winners? The people of course. The ultra rich could get some kind of fancy health care if they want.
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ADAGUY9 months, 1 week ago
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Organized medicine, (hospitals) and major insurance companies, along with the pharmaceutical industry are doing every thing in their power to keep things as they are. Most physicians will tell you that organized health care is really needed in this country.
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Georgia509 months ago
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Improvements in the provision of health care is indeed a desire many Americans and I'd bet every doctor has. SOCIALIZED medicine however is not seen by many Americans as the correct path to that end.
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In most countries with socialized medicine, were you to live in them for any amount of time and have to make use of their system, you'd see why in a New York minute.
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
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For those of us who have paid for their insurance for 30 years plus are free to continue with them, according to Obama's proposals. However, their premiums and options should only improve with the fact that there will be one plan available for those who were unable to become insured due to health limitations.
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(Should someone want to continue paying high premiums for their coverage, maybe they should send there savings to those less fortunate.)
It appears that some people harbor selfish fears and resentments towards "those of us" who were unable to either afford insurance or who could not get insurance do to health restrictions.
That kind of attitude only fosters division and class warfare -- an unfortunate attitude that hopefully will improve as the nation comes around to accepting the fact that medical attention should be a universal right and not a luxury that only some can afford. -
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Sageparadox9 months, 1 week ago
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Coming up to a year now since I have had my lung transplant. Hate to say it but I have to be glad I was classified pernamently disabled and didnt have a cent to my name, otherwise I would have had to declare bankruptcy anyways. Thank goodness I had state covered medicaid cover the operation and the hospital stay. But now I am on a spend down from month to month. Which means I have to pay around $530 each month before medicaid even activate for the month, so that I can get the anti-rejection and anti-biotics meds that keep me alive. All I make is SSI which the spend down take from half off. So it is a nice trick I pull off getting along from month to month on just a little over $500.
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I'm hoping when I get onto federal Medicare soon, things will be a bit less hecktic, and a little more bareable.-
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
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Thanks for sharing that, Sageparadox. What I've seen in Florida regarding who qualifies for Medicaid benefits is shameful. Just as you described, one has to be classified permanently disabled to receive those benefits. However, the definition for "permanently disabled" has become so restrictive that even paraplegics are declined.
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Spadecaller9 months, 1 week ago
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Georgia your views are not just outdated but they are incorrect and bias.
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There are many individual specialists that stand above the rest and come from all countries. To insist that American medicine and doctors are the best in all specialties and across the board is foolish and inaccurate.
Americans also visit other countries to see doctors that they feel are better qualified and more affordable despite having U.S. purchased health insurance.
Regardless of the country that one chooses to receive medical attention, one always needs to search out and choose a facility and doctors that they are confident in.
It is true that all countries have good facilities and bad, all countries have highly skilled doctors as well as those who are poorly trained and running less than desirable operations.
Those that believe that the United States is the only place to receive quality care at reasonable costs are truly mistaken and ignorant of the facts.
The USA has an infant mortality rate of 5 per 1,000, the same as Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Malta. Of 33 developed countries, America is just above Latvia, the bottom of the group.
Last year, 750,000 Americans traveled abroad for care, according to estimates by the Deloitte Center for Health Solutions, a Washington-based research center that's part of the consulting firm Deloitte & Touche. -
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Georgia509 months ago
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Note the politicized premise of this anti-health care hit piece. If you're against socialized medicine, you're a lobbyist. If you're in favor of socialized medicine, you're just a responsible, informed, enlightened citizen.
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Since the premise is deliberately false, the conclusion must also be a lie. -
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coolslow9 months ago
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So far Obama's premise on federal Universal Health Care is that better service would be provided to more people, but that the cost would go down. More service, more people, but less money? Imagine a federally run health care system! Health care is at least as complex an issue as taxes. A health care government bureaucracy like the IRS would emerge with a health care "code " equally as complex as the IRS code. Even Rangel, the Ways and Means (tax writing) Chairman and Geithner the Treasury Secretary can't understand it. Imagine 10% of the population paying for 60% of the costs and the remaining 90% paying for the other 40%. Imagine the number of jobs it would create: Tens of thousands of governement health care workers. Other jobs would be for health care "accountants" and health care "advisers" who would set up shop to help the public figure out the health care code and access services. Imagine calling the Health Care Department with a question and getting lost in the electronic system, imagine the forms and the paperwork, imagine the skilled and dedicated government workers, imagine the waste, fraud, cheaters, and abuse, imagine the costs, imagine the legal issues, court cases and penalities.
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SpadecallerComment removed: Spam
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Spadecaller9 months ago
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Mister Spinhead is getting on my nerves again...
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http://www.freewebs.com/spadecaller/march5thpicduj... -
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Georgia509 months ago
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here's a link to UN rankings of health care by country.
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http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Spain, 7
USA, 37
Here's a contrast regarding the simple procedure of gall bladder removal. A friend of mine had hers removed in Spain, mine was removed here in GA.
She: languished in pain for over 6 months until they diagnosed her properly. Her out-of-pocket: $0.
Me: diagnosed within 3 hours of entering ER, put on painkillers. It was a holiday weekend, so I had to wait until the surgical staff was up to strength. A week later I was released. Out of pocket: $1,200.
Comparing for pain, incomes, etc., I'll take my situation any day.
BTW....most of the hospitals in Russia don't even have indoor plumbing. Sure they're way down the list, but think of the countries in proximity to them on that list. Plus, Canada and Germany are below Colombia. Seriously...if you had your pick of the three, which would you pick?
Cuba is just below us on the list. Doctors in Cuba make $25/month. I wonder what kind of care that gets you.
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