Why the Islamic Religion is Not Totalitarian »
Posted By Shana4Liberty 7 months, 4 weeks ago in NewsThe trend of labeling the Islamic religion as “totalitarian” is far too provocative to leave unanswered. Those who argue that Islam, or the Muslim faith, is by its very nature totalitarian turn a semantic gaffe into a pejorative and hostile dogma which, in turn, becomes an article of faith for the avid fans of Fox News. Given the social cost of mobilizing a large segment of the population to fear and abhor Muslims, this error must be addressed.
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Shana4Liberty
I'm a stay-at-homeschooling mom of 4 living in central Alabama, but a native of south Texas. Feel free to friend me and send me ...
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Goppy7 months, 4 weeks ago
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I believe the Islamic Religion is a religion of Peace ...
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... just as Judaism is a religion of Peace ...
... just as Bahai'ism is a religion of Peace ...
... just as Buddhism is a religion of Peace ...
... just as Christianity is a religion of Peace .... .... .... well .... .... .... TRADITIONAL Christianity is a religion of Peace ... the MODERN American Christianity is more a POLITICAL expression.
I guess that happened when Modern Christian Evangelicals RE-INVENTED Jesus into a gun totin, gay bashing, war lovin, health-care-for-kids hatin, pollution lovin expression of Right Wing Laissez-faire.
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cowboygrandpa7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Goppy:
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LOL
I don't think any religion is the religion of peace.
As long as men run them they are going to be contaminated by the desires of men.
Religion in and of itself is mans way of thinking he is doing the things God wants us to do.
But one can do these things with the wrong thoughts in ones heart and still not be doing as God commands.
I think Jesus Christ is the Lord of Peace. In Him one has peace.
Without Him one has man made rules to make man feel better, to ease the feeling of guilt or emptiness.
To me any man made religion is totalitarian in its goals. For it seeks to enslave a man forever into the untruths of man over the Truths of God.
Now I know this may not be popular. But the truth seldom is. -
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Pecossam7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Goppy,
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In regards to your statement:
"I believe the Islamic Religion is a religion of Peace..." could only be heartfelt from one who hasn't read his Gibbon or other histories on the subject, including Islam's Koran (not piecemeal, but in its entirety).
Your unfortunate misunderstanding and blanket indictment of ALL "Modern American" Christians says more about you than them.
May you find your way out of the moral morass you are presently in, and which causes your confusion.. Good Luck.
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libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned2 Replies
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EDWARDIII7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Since Socratese there has been a notion loose in the land that the biggest, and perhaps the only debt owed to the people by their leaders is justice, whatever justice is. Hitler, Stalin and other tyrants had to convince their populations that their purpose was to establsih justice. This is NOT unusual. Look at Napoleon, HeneryII(England), Caesar. It is not unusual, but it is geographically unique. If you look at truly totalitarian regimes-- the Ottomans, the Byzantines, the Abasids, the Persians, the Khans, the Shogunates-- we see little or nothing about a philosophy of governing except the treatment of the people as some sort of resource. The dividing line is between East & West.
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I know there are some holes in this thinking and I welcome counter-opinions.-
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Dionys7 months, 4 weeks ago
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"It is not unusual, but it is geographically unique. If you look at truly totalitarian regimes-- the Ottomans, the Byzantines, the Abasids, the Persians, the Khans, the Shogunates-- we see little or nothing about a philosophy of governing except the treatment of the people as some sort of resource. The dividing line is between East & West."
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You're kidding, right?
Those in the west, such as bloody Mary and the line of Tudor Kings (such as those who killed the Jews and chased them out of England, and who prosecuted and executed Catholics) are somehow better than the Byzantines (who allowed people of different faith traditions to practice their faiths freely)?
I guess I can see your bias in your name, King Edward. -
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slate7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Yeah blame Fox news, the SOP. Maybe people get that Idea because of the articles of honor killing, stoning or beating women that show their faces or hang out with men or watching videos of Muslims gleefully reveling in the blood lust of carving off someone's head.
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Shana4Liberty7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Thank you Sumptuous! I don't always agree with everything I post, but in this case I do. I guess it's because I live in a "war-hawk" southern state, but I hear regularly that all Muslims are blood-thirsty haters who want to destroy America. It's wearying. Especially since I have Muslim friends who want nothing but peace.
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RedRiverJ7 months, 4 weeks ago
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There are evil people that profess to be 'religious' in all religions.
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I have a difficult time getting past the Koran verses that promote killing infidels if they don't believe as Muslims.
Sura 8:60.
"It doesn't matter whether people know what I did," he says. "The only person who matters is Allah--and the only question he will ask me is 'How many infidels did you kill?'"
Ishaq:357 “Their leaders were left prostrate. Their heads were sliced off like melons. Many an adversary have I left on the ground to rise in pain, broken and plucked. When the battle was joined I dealt them a vicious blow. Their arteries cried aloud, their blood flowed.”
Gee Goppy dunno about you but I need my head.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/006829.php-
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Dionys7 months, 4 weeks ago
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The "infidels" referred to were groups of marauding pagans attacking Muslims. People of the book (Muslims, Jews and Christians) could never be considered "infidels."
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Here's a quote from a site that isn't, unlike your "jihadwatch" an ideological anti-Muslim site:
1. What are the three biggest misperceptions Americans have about the global Islamic community?
Prof. Juan Cole:
One: If you watch American television, you see the most extreme charges against Muslims set forth by pundits. Some allege that Muslims are inherently violent and commanded by scripture to attack infidels. In fact, the Quran forbids murder and commands Muslims to make peace with people who seek peace with them.
The “infidels” whom the Quran urges the faithful to combat were the militant pagans of ancient Mecca, who had aggressively attacked the Muslims and were trying to kill them all.
The Quran praises the Hebrew Bible and the Gospels as full of “guidance and light,” celebrates the children of Israel, and says that Christians are closest in love to Muslims. Of course, some Muslims are bigoted and manage to ignore those parts of their scripture, but it is not the case that the religion is essentially militant. I’ve gone with Americans to the Middle East, and after a few days they typically come and confess to me that they are amazed at how nice the people are, how kind and generous to foreigners, and how little they resemble U.S. media stereotypes."
http://harpers.org/archive/2009/03/hbc-90004500
Please stop spreading your lies and biogted hatred. -
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EDWARDIII7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Religions that succeed never rock the boat. That is to say, religions codify a pre-existing life style. Islam came out of a society in which caravan raiding was part of life. Tribal rivalry to the death, treating females as livestock and bloody revenge were au d'rigeur. Christianity and Judaism also have some hair-raising practices supported in their literature, but reason has modifies the ways these ideas are percieved. Islam made a conscious break with reason in the middle of the 13th century. Only a minority of thinking Moslems have the guts to look forward toward greater goals than serving the idiosyncracies of a long-gone mystic.
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SandmonsterComment removed: Hard Banned8 Replies
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cleare7 months, 4 weeks ago
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i think it is important to remember that judaism, christianity and islam are all related. kind of like first cousins once and twice removed. jews wrote the old testiment, christians the new and muslims accept both as part of their teachings. it all comes down to saviors. jews don't have one...they're still waiting; christians have jesus christ; muslims accept christ as A prophet of god, but claim that mohammed is the "one true prophet" and i think son of god.
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bottom line we are all brothers and sisters under god. -
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CHAM7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Good Post Shana. And here come the bigots from both sides. Torquemada the inquisitor was a Catholic I do believe. Now what were some of you saying about how Christianity changed their focus around the 13th Century? Wasn't Torquemada born in 1420? Yes he was and that means that somewhere close around 1450 the Christian religion was practicing torture to get "unbelievers" to confess their sins and accept Jesus Christ as their savior. Seems like I remember that if the person being tortured would recant and accept Jesus then according to the "crime" the confessor would either be no longer subjected to torture and allowed to live, or the torture would be stopped to allow the confessor to be put to death while in a state of saved by confession ( could go to heaven ).
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Think its time to shut up about how bad Islam is and acknowledge that Christianity can be one of the leading insults to peace?
Its not the religion, its those that make use of it as a weapon. That is on-going in the United States as well as in other parts of the world.
By the way Abraham, Patriarch of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam is the direct blood line of all three religions. Issac, ancestor of Judaism and Christianity, and Ishmael, ancestor of Islam are both sons of Abraham and both were blessed of God.
It is criminal to try to force ones Religious morality on anyone else. This has been the cause of most wars. -
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orndorffter7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Yes very interesting, and so are all the comments. But if you dont mind me saying, I well say with the King James verison of the Holly Bible, Jesus was the son of God and gave his live si that we shall everlasting life and our sins be forgivin in his name, he shead his blood and hung on the cross for us.The Bible tells of these things that are in some comments. I well not down grade someone eleses religion They are free to worshipe the way they want. I well do the same and give the grace of God the glory. I well rejoice for he has made me glad. and I well keep lifting Jesus higher and up for the world to see. He said, "if I be lifed up I well bring all men unto me. what a mighty God we serve.
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Poulenc7 months, 4 weeks ago
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But most "organized" religions are totalitarian by definition--they admit no other truth than their own for the explanation of...all the things they claim to explain.
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One-think is the point; any admission of the possibility of other truths threatens the faith itself. To maintain and ensure its survival, dogma must hold that there's only one way to know god, be saved, ensure life in the hereafter, have the daily intervention/protection of a caring deity, etc.
If there are other, equally valid truths, well, the faithful might not be be so, power would have to be aportioned--horrors!--and...etc. -
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icono17 months, 4 weeks ago
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I find it interesting that a God that loves his 'creation' would allow that 'creation' to produce religions in his name that can easily promote a deep seated hate of each other in that God's name.
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I've talked to some so called Christians that, in belief, are as vile and hate filled as some of those Radical Muslim Extremists that I have talked to. The only difference between the two groups is that one society, the Christian, is largely controlled by Euro-Centric secular govts that by and large do not condone religious acts of socially codefied violence (as an example; public stoning for adultry) yet on the other hand some, and I repeat some, there are a few Muslim gvts and groups that, either overtly or covertly, do promote acts of codified religious violence (again, public stoning to death for adultry.).
Other than that, there is little difference between Islam and Christianity in the psychological hatred that some, and I repeat some, of the 'choosen of God' from both camps exhibit.-
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willottica7 months, 3 weeks ago
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It might be noted that the acts of codified religious violence (using your example of public stoning to death for adultery), are in the Christian code as well as the Muslim. (Leviticus 20:10)
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Since Christianity has not issued statements condemning the laws found in the Old Testament, then surely (despite Jesus' plea for tolerance: "let he who is without sin...") it is not the difference in religion that changes things, but rather the greater influence of secularism in the Western world.
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Klarissa7 months, 4 weeks ago
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"Dictionary.com defines totalitarian as:
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of or pertaining to a centralized government that does not tolerate parties of differing opinion and that exercises dictatorial control over many aspects of life.
2. exercising control over the freedom, will, or thought of others; authoritarian; autocratic.
to·tal·i·tar·i·an (t?-t?l'?-târ'?-?n) Pronunciation Key
adj. Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed: "A totalitarian regime crushes all autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)
n. A practitioner or supporter of such a government. "
How would you describe a country that imprisons Christians or stones to death a woman who has been raped?-
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Dionys7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Well.
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America is a country that imprisons Christians
and
Israel is a country where women are stoned by Orthodox Jews for wearing shorts or pants.
So does that mean the two together form a totalitarian state?
But go ahead and explain which of the Islamic countries are totalitarian governments.
Saudi Arabia, our closest ally? Probably pretty close.
China, our 'most favored nation' trading partner? Without a doubt.
Russia, Bush's best friend? Getting back that way.
Iran? Nope.
Iraq? More so under the new government than Saddam's which was decidedly secularized and where women could work and walk around without clothing restrictions.
Interesting points you make, Klarissa. Thank you. -
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CHAM7 months, 4 weeks ago
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icono, I have to agree with you to a certain point. However the majority of our American Christians have absolutely no trouble endorsing the killing of over a million Iraqis, the destruction of their country, the breaking of the ten commandments by our Government, and giving their support even to the support of the atrocities committed by our soldiers in Haditha and Muhammadiyah. I actually saw a comment on here months ago that said the soldiers that raped the 14 year old girl and murdered her family in Muhammadiyah should get a pat on the back.
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When later the Iraqi insurgents captured two of that Company and beheaded them saying they did it as a payback to the soldiers, many people cursed the insurgents, even some of the people that thought the rape and killing was AOK. The plot leader in that rape and killing, the one who shot the girls family including her 8 year old sister and mother and father before they gang raped her, then shot her after they took their turns raping her, well he shot her in the head. Then they burned the bodies and reported killing four terrorists. Months later one of the soldiers ( after the beheadings ) came forward and confessed to the Chaplin that he felt responsible and had a need to confess.
Anyway that ringleader has yet to go to trial. The others have been found guilty and have received life.
The point is, a survey recently found that a majority of the Evangelical Preachers in the United States support Bush and the Iraqi war. A war I might add that didn't have to happen except that Bush and his buddies wanted it to happen.-
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EDWARDIII7 months, 3 weeks ago
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And you assume that the actions of these hoodlems represents US policy. Do you really believe that or do you just promote the left-wing Democratic party line?
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It's a simple matter to find out what everyone, from Dick Cheney to Bill Clintom said about Sadam and Iraq at the time the war was launched. Both sides of the issue are arguable. Even Bill OReily questions the wisdom of the war, though he supports our quest for victory.
You, on the other hand, seem only interested in propaganda. It makes me wonder about your motives. Some people on this blog show signs of being promoters of America's enemies. It's totally believable that Hugo Chavez, for instance, would get people to make comments like this on American blogs.
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johnhodgson11117 months, 4 weeks ago
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There is no error, look at the countries that have censorship and rigid moral codes; gee lets count the worst offenders that add religion and government into a theocracy which is a totalitarian state. that's muslin countries and the lack of public discourse and public protest against the church and state. Clearly the article is about 're framing the argument into a different direction, keep it on track' Muslim theocratic states are the harbingers of death today.
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alamintalib7 months, 4 weeks ago
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This world is full of imperfect people, nations and governments. As a African-American and Sunni Muslim convert from Christianity, I can attest to embarrassments and triumphs to both of these groups. Many a bible verse has been ignored to promote totalitarian ideology. Ask any black person 50 years old or older. Ask them about Christian lynching's and castrations, drinking from separate water fountains, police dogs and the general vocabulary that "black" as a people or color was divinely created as inferior to "white". We have more people in prison than China, a country with 5 times our population.
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The bible verse about the "stick in your eye" should apply. Stop all this debate and fix your own "house". There are enough peace lovers of all religions to help ensure that tyranny and wrong doing don't prevail in any of these religious arenas.
There are enough wars and killings in the Islamic world to prove that it is not totalitarian. Believe me, if Iran gets a nuclear bomb, it would use it on another Muslim country well before it even contemplated using it on Americans. This shows that for some, even political and cultural prevalence outweigh Islamic ideology.-
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EDWARDIII7 months, 3 weeks ago
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You should copy some of that in your bio.
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I'm an atheist but I respect religion. When I hear people like Bill howdoyou spell it Mawr? When I hear him ridicule religion I want to ask him if Malcom X would have been better if he had never discovered Islam.
If it's not too personal, how were you inspired to convert? Clearly you see equal flaws in both beliefs.
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TruthJusticeAmericanWay7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Islam is both a Religion and Political System and the Political System is BRUTAL. Moral Police in Saudi Arabia beat you and then as you questions. I was there wearing a Claddagh ring AKA Irish Wedding Band, I got ten lashes for it and hauled to the real police. Real forward thinking. We are trying to introduce democracy to Afganistan but just this week a guy got 20 YRS for supporting Equal Rights for Woman.HOW PROGRESSIVE OF THEM.
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I have a few questions for those who say Islam is not Totalitarian or a Tryanny. How many oppostion Papers in Saudi Arabia NONE How many Churches? NONE There is a radical Mosque with in sight of the Vatican and someday soon I can see the JIHADISM attacking that place.Where are the FATWAHs against OBL and AL Queda fast enough to issue you one for Rushie and his Book. Wait that is right Rushie does not bomb innocents like in Bali, I will said this is Spanish to get past the filters, the resson there is not FATWAH. Islam y Los Imams soy Los Hombres sin Los Cojones. they can only kill like cowards with BOMBS and they only beat and kill women-
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Dionys7 months, 3 weeks ago
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"I was there wearing a Claddagh ring AKA Irish Wedding Band, I got ten lashes for it and hauled to the real police"
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Really? That's interesting. I heard the same story from what must be a different person.
I guess everyone that's worn a Claddagh ring has gotten ten lashes for it in Saudi Arabia.
Either that or it's yet another myth going around the anti-Muslims web sites.
"ait that is right Rushie does not bomb innocents like in Bali"
Nor, I suspect, does he bomb innocents like in Iraq. Or Gaza.
Then again a "fatwah" can be issued by any jackass imam and isn't some kind of institutionalized command.
"they can only kill like cowards with BOMBS and they only beat and kill women"
You mean like the cowards in the US or those americans who beat and kill women on a regular basis?
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CHAM7 months, 3 weeks ago
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alamintalib. I agree that there are good and bad in all religions. The great problem with Christianity is that it doesn't admit that it does any wrong.
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And I think that the religious bent in all this is basically a form of denigration of the "target". When a Corporation wants to steal the resources of a country, they get with our government and the PR starts about how badly they treat their people, how godless they are, What a threat they are to America, and once the PR campaign gets the country into a frenzy, we attack that country to "prevent them from attacking us". Kind of like the domino theory about Vietnam. Remember?-
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most_reasonable7 months, 3 weeks ago
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"alamintalib. I agree that there are good and bad in all religions. The great problem with Christianity is that it doesn't admit that it does any wrong."
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Please post official stances in Muslim countries that admit that Islam does wrong.
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alamintalib7 months, 3 weeks ago
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First, prove this story that "you" received 10 lashes for wearing a wedding ring. What country are you from?
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Secondly, I mentioned the injustices by white Christians on Black people here, I lived that and my family as well, so don't tell me that brutality is an Islamic monopoly.
Thirdly, any people who abuse those under their control or the weak, don't have balls. Yo hablo espanol tambien!
Look for the FATWAHS, there are tons that denounce these acts. These acts are wrong and I tell you as a Muslim that nothing in Islam validates these actions. So please, be fair. These dialogs only work when we have opened our hearts to state the truth.
If you need tons of Islamic sources that denounce terrorism, then I will supply them. anyone here can easily Google this. Please take 15 seconds to do this. Evidentially, that was not your concern.
There are too many people who lack the sincerity to truly seek solutions for all our peaceful existence on this earth. Pessimistic attitudes don't help promote progress.
Just examining these blogs gives me a bleek outlook. I don't understand the sources for such hateful responses.
I will say, all the terrible responses on these blogs always come from backward thinking Christians. God bless the Christians who are kind hearted and overlook their personal beliefs only to state what they observe as truth.
I will work with anyone with such attitude. -
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Pecossam7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Be it a theocratic totalitarianism or a Stalinistic, political variety, I don't believe matters much to those who suffer under its thumb. An honest reading of the history of Islam would definitely bring one to the conclusion that Islam falls under the broad definition of "TYRANNICAL", and that is all that really matters; not what its apologists say the religion is, but how its actions define it. ANY system (Islam) that would deny to the individual the right to revert to, or newly convert, to another religion (through threat of death) is indeed "TOTALITARIAN" in the negative, despotic meaning the word evokes in the common person. The rest is useless parsing.
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EDWARDIII7 months, 3 weeks ago
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"ANY system (Islam) that would deny to the individual the right to revert to, or newly convert, to another religion (through threat of death) is indeed "TOTALITARIAN"
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Good point, and the best I can say is that Moslems, especially those in the U.S., are beginning to evolve ways of easing the extremism of their scripture. Of course it will be a long time before Usama Bin Ladin mellows out. -
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Dionys7 months, 3 weeks ago
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"ANY system (Islam) that would deny to the individual the right to revert to, or newly convert, to another religion (through threat of death) is indeed "TOTALITARIAN" in the negativ"
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Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)
Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)
“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)
All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn’t the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)
Every religion has its dark bits. Only ideological extremists take them out of the beautiful context of the whole.
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