Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Big Plane, Small Holes »
Posted By RickyDawkins 8 months, 3 weeks ago in Science & TechnologyThough dozens of witnesses saw a Boeing 757 hit the building, conspiracy advocates insist there is evidence that a missile or a different type of plane smashed into the Pentagon.
Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."
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RickyDawkins
Atheism can be either the rejection of theism, or the position that deities do not exist. In the broadest sense, it is the absence of ...
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Snopes also did a story on this:
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http://snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.asp-
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Eyewitness accounts:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1wQ2BJsgx0
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Debunking 9/11 myths
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http://debunk911myths.org/topics/Pentagon
(some graphic images) -
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Folks, the hole in the Pentagon is big enough for all of the bulky parts of a 757 to crash through--about 15 feet on the second floor and possibly 80 feet on the first floor. There is a photo of metal wrapped around a column and other photos of aircraft debris within the building."
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http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon-hole.html -
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
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-fta -
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Will13138 months, 3 weeks ago
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I don't have a problem and I'm not a truther.. but they could end all speculation.. just by releasing the confiscated security camera videos... which were picked up suspiciously fast... was that the FIRST THING on everyone's mind when they thought the nation was under attack....
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and you cannot tell me that the Pentagon is not one of the most surveilled buildings in the world.. I'd bet there was a camera that was almost at point of impact....
what exactly do they have to gain by not showing them... and again.. it would silence all critics or ...............-
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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911 Case Study: Pentagon Flight 77
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Pentagon & Boeing 757 Wheel Investigation
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http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0... -
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Klarissa8 months, 3 weeks ago
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slate8 months, 3 weeks ago
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tchef8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Hope your husband is ok.
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To me the largest problem is the the way any investigation has been handled of this event seems to be trying to hide more than it tries to reveal. I don't really think that this was an inside job, but I do believe that there was a lot of things going on that they are not telling us. -
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alakazam8 months, 3 weeks ago
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I would concede the argument that something was not afoot that day if it had not happened the very next day that all that money went missing.
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The part of the building that got hit is where the report was being kept before they took it to Congress.
Doesn't matter whether or not it was or wasn't a plane.
That is non germane to who did it and why.
Our ex-allies in Afghanistan did it because they hate our Freedoms?
That a BS answer...so what's the right one?
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berkeley8 months, 3 weeks ago
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his argument seems to require the plane to have "liquified." can he show us any other boeing jets that performed this trick?
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does mete sozen have a photograph that shows the scar in the ground that the wing caused? i somehow doubt it, for there are dozens of other pics that show the grass completely intact.
http://pentagon911.0catch.com/
and please, this question has nothing to do with bush or cheney, it simply involves real world physics.-
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"his argument seems to require the plane to have "liquified."...Then why didn't the other two aircraft that hit the towers.I mean if the heat generated was enough to melt the supports,causing the buildings to collapse perfectly into themselves,but still not hot enough to "liquify" at least one of the hijackers ID...Different fuel ? But wait..some one said the entire plane wasn't liquified..there were parts...which is it ?
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Tangent0018 months, 3 weeks ago
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Please! No-one claims the plane was 'liquified'. What the analysts said was that the heavily reinforced, closely placed concrete pylons effectively shredded the majority of the plane so the debris flowed more like a liquid than a solid.
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engineer8 months, 3 weeks ago
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This "structural" engineer must be debunked. Find any picture from any website which plane parts in in any of the 911 Pentagon photos and you will find there are none. by the same token, every plane crash on record where a plane has crashed there are pictures of plane parts. at the scene. Being one of the most guarded buildings as is the White House, Capitol, etc., there is no chance that the military would let a plane come into the Pentagon
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RickyDawkins8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Find any picture from any website which plane parts in in any of the 911 Pentagon photos and you will find there are none."
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http://www.flight77.info/debris.php
(thanks to nostalgia)
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Dionys8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Will13138 months, 3 weeks ago
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Look...call me a truther,call me an idiot,call me anything you want...but when in this country did wanting to know the truth from OUR government become a bad thing ?
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There are security cameras miles out from the pentagon,as there is in any secure site..one camera out of the thousands around that building would have a a clear picture..Do you at least agree with that..if you don't why? If you do then you have to see the validity of this argument. -
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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""If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."
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It did in the towers,why not there ? And even if it didn't,why no marks indicitive of that on the outside of the building.
"In this case, one wing hit the ground;....."
Then what happened to that wing and the parts you would expect to find? -
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Poulenc8 months, 3 weeks ago
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What interests me is the conspiracy-theory mentality--the almost reflexive need some folks have to find or uncover a plot.
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I'm not taking sides on the merits of truther explanations, but noting the consistent appearance of people who believe, in light of some incident, that they're being duped by official explanations for it--or even by the evidence of many eyes.
Here's some interesting info on the subject:
http://www.world-mysteries.com/newgw/gw_rmd1.htm
In a nutshell, conspiracy-theorists tend to exhibit:
* anomia, a belief that he/she felt alienated or disaffection relative to “the system;”
* a tendency to distrust other people; and
* a feeling of insecurity regarding continued employment.
The last is particularly interesting, no?-
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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"What interests me is the conspiracy-theory mentality--the almost reflexive need some folks have to find or uncover a plot."
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What is important to me and should be to any citizen is the truth.If that truth shows any type of conspiracy then we should be able to go after those that are involved...
We should worry about the security of our country if there are ANY unresolved questions,that is part of the publics duty,to keep asking those questions until we get answers and proof that make sense...so far we haven't got either.
"anomia, a belief that he/she felt alienated or disaffection relative to “the system;”...Where are the real pictures?
"a tendency to distrust other people; and..." Plenty of reason there..After all the sitting president at that time met with Saudi royalty shortly before and after this incident,then took us to war based on lies and misinformation..that is enough not to trust.
"a feeling of insecurity regarding continued employment."....Duh...lol..look around,although i have no idea how that relates to the pentagon..BTW..i'm retired...lol -
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hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Too facile. We know that the government lies to us regularly. I would submit that that is what leads many people to question the explanations about 9/11 - where even the members of the 9/11 Commission have told us that they were lied to by the Bush administration.
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AND, we know for a fact that our own government has previously planned terrorist attacks on our own country for political reasons. The interesting thing is that although hundreds of federal employees knew about such planned attacks, they never became public. In light of our own history, it is not too much to expect that our government do a MUCH better job providing information about 9/11.
Operation Northwoods
US PLANNED FAKE TERROR ATTACKS ON CITIZENS
TO CREATE SUPPORT FOR CUBAN WAR
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/northwoo... -
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hyperbola8 months, 3 weeks ago
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As for other countries, we have decades of history of sponsoring terrorism in foreign countries - including western Europe. Here is a particularly credible source of information (The Swiss Federal Institute of Technology) about our terrorist support in western Europe.
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Secret Warfare : Operation Gladio and NATO's Stay-Behind Armies
Introduction by Daniele Ganser
Table of Contents
Synopsis
Chronology
Bibliography
About the Author
Book Launch of "NATO's Secret Armies: Operation Gladio and Terrorism in Western Europe" by Daniele Ganser
Terrorism in Western Europe ( English 162 KB ) by Daniele Ganser
International Conference on 'Intelligence in Waging the Cold War', Oslo, 29-30 April 2005
Ganser, Daniele (2005): Gli eserciti segreti della NATO. Operazione Gladio e terrorismo in Europa occidentale. Novità: Fazi Editore.
Media Desk
Endorsements
Chapter One: A terrorist attack in Italy
This chapter describes the discovery of the secret stay-behind army “Gladio” in Italy. The chapter takes the reader back to the Peteano terrorist attack of 31 May 1972. In that year an anonymous phone call after the attack suggested that the left-wing terrorist organization “Red Brigades” had carried out the atrocity, and for many years Italy believed that the crime had been carried out by the political left. Yet in 1984 Italian judge Felice Casson reopened the Peteano case after having discovered large-scale manipulations. The chapter describes how Casson during his investigations discovered the Italian secret stay-behind army “Gladio” hidden within the military secret service and how it had linked up with right-wing terrorist Vincenzo Vinciguerra who confessed to having carried out the Peteano terrorist attack. ....
Chapter Five: The secret war in the United States
This chapter describes US secret warfare operations in Western Europe from the end of the Second World War in 1945 to the end of the Cold War in 1991. It relates how the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the National Security Council (NSC) were created and how directive NSC 10/2 gave them the task to engage in secret warfare. ....
http://www.php.isn.ethz.ch/collections/coll_gladio... -
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Tangent0018 months, 3 weeks ago
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Penn and Teller did an episode of Bullsh!t about 9/11 conspiracy theorists. One psychologist said it is actually comforting to some to think the government is behind these sorts of attacks, and they will bend over backwards to make the facts fit the theory. These people simply cannot deal with the existential chaos of there actually being extremist whack-jobs out there willing to fly planes into buildings.
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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As was mentioned in the other story as an example.."when i was in Vietnam it was always the same..the more stressful the situation,the more the story's would differ .That holds true to any stressful situation.
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People had already seen the footage and heard the news of the aircraft hitting the towers....Now i don't know about those people but i was stressed when i say that,maybe even enough to mistake an airliner for a cruise missile,or the other way around.
Ever been to an airshow ,or in a combat zone where there is a flight of a low flying jet..most of the time you don't see them coming and you have no idea what it is when it is overhead,then it takes a few seconds to see it as it passes..those seconds were not available before whatever struck the pentagon. -
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Here is one link..i hope it works.
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http://www.serendipity.li/wot/crash_site.htm
Notice that the walls have not collapsed and there is no apparent damage to the walls where the wings would have hit.-
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tchef8 months, 3 weeks ago
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If you look closely at the photo with the silhouette of the plane on it you will notice that the outer coating of the building is knocked off right where the wings would have hit. The Pentagon is a very heavily constructed building. Look at the supports inside They are massive concrete pillars that are steel reinforced.
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Here is another video...listen to what he says about the walls.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcWT2lQszEE -
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Listen to rummy..and does he look like a person that is upset about losing friends and co-workers ?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucGCs0hl9S8 -
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Here is rummy again..on 9/10/01
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlnQTcLHaMM -
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fiftynine8 months, 3 weeks ago
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Here is the video about the hole...How does this make any sense at all?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmP2Vy8K0i0
Nothing is consistent with the official line.
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