Is It Time To Thin The Herd »
Posted By Newperson 7 months, 3 weeks ago in FamilyOk I guess I have did it now. There will be some that will say NP this is awful and it just might be.I have thought about this story and almost passed it by. Than I said why not. I don't agree with all that is said due to the fact I think it walks all over human rights. But there are some that feel this way. You decide.
WHAT DO YOU THINK?
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Newperson
From the day we are born were all travelers just passing through. And i'm happy to have a wonderful loving wife to pass through ...
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gamahuche7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Snap, Slate!
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I clicked on the comments button to say just the same thing..
Since I'm here, and pre-empted :} I'll just add that the next most foolish comment in the article was that concerning Oprah Winfrey.
How does the author deem himself to criticise the use to which someone puts their money, if they've earned it?
If she was putting it up her nose and supporting the Mexican drug lords its a valid point.
If she's supporting children on another continent great! -
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Ratskii7 months, 3 weeks ago
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slate,
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I expected to hear something like what you are saying when I read the article. Then I got to the end and saw that it was more of a proposal to promote birth control and limit family size. Still, given the rather drastic language that is used in most of the article I can see why it might be assumed that they are actually proposing that some people be killed.
I would like to see legalization of right to die with dignity that people can chose if they freely wish to. If my goes before my body, I have no desire to hang around and use a disproportionate amount of this countries medical resources.
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dissent7 months, 3 weeks ago
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thanks for posting this article np.
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i've been pondering these thoughts myself lately. the way i see it we, as a species, have three big time major league interwoven problems to deal with that won't wait until tomorrow, as we've dragged our feet more than long enough, and only serve to contribute to and magnify each other
1. a global economic crisis that threatens global security in a way that fly-swatting terrorists could never come close to. the instability sets the stage for wars and more wars
2. an environmental disaster that is turning, much faster than we imagined, our until now very obliging planet into an inhospitable hostile terrain. the result will, as it already is in some regions, cause huge population shifts in search of food, water and better climes..... which sets the stage for disease, wars and more wars
3. a population increasing at such a rapid rate that our until now very accommodating planet will be heavily taxed, by us, in every possible way to simply provide food and shelter for all of us. water, not oil, will soon become for all of us, as it already is in some parts of the world, our most sought after resource..... the desperation will set the stage for disease, wars and more wars.
disease and wars, however, will accelerate our problems and project us all into a future we can't and won't want to imagine. they do however have a way of "thinning the herd."
so although we can discuss and academically argue the ethically ambivalent considerations of such a distasteful notion, mother nature has a way of sorting things out in her own way in order to restore balance. as she does and has done with any plague or infestation..... including us.
perhaps we should just leave it up to her and await our inevitable fate :|
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greenmac7 months, 3 weeks ago
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My wife and I were discussing cancer and other diseases just the other day. I was telling her about a new technology that may result in a cure. When then got into the discussion about "what if". What if there were no disease....what if war came to an end..... what would happen to the human race. As populations grew, farm land would decrease...water supplies would be taxed to their limits and there is only so much water on the planet. Would this result in us fighting for resource or maybe just breeding ourselves out of existence? Would we have to put limits on family size? Extending life is great when we think as an individual..... but how long is to long.
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Newperson7 months, 3 weeks ago
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There are two sides to every story. I don't know the answer GM but some day maby not in our lifetimes there may be limits on how many children we may be allowed to have?
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Know one wants to think about this it is just a awful.
But I do feel we owe it to our people that are here now to give them the best health care that can be found. -
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ForrestPhelps7 months, 3 weeks ago
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To: greenmac
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We can only hope that one result of the increasing pressure of overuse and overpopulation will be colonization of our solar system.
(That old necessity-mother-invention saw).
In the meantime, until we develop those (probably significantly far-off) technologies that will allow us to colonize other planets, it won't be very pretty here.
I feel very sorry for my grandchildren.
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Spadecaller7 months, 3 weeks ago
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The term "thinning the herd" is a relatively innocuous way of introducing a distorted philosophy -- one that reflects the darkest nature of human evils. Compulsory sterilization laws adopted by over 30 states had led to more than 60,000 sterilizations of disabled individuals in the U.S.
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Many of these individuals were sterilized because of a disability: they were mentally disabled or ill, or belonged to socially disadvantaged groups living on the margins of society.
In the first decades of the 20th century, American eugenic laws and practices that were implemented led to hundreds of thousands of compulsory sterilizations, and which was one stepping stone to the Holocaust.
Even after the details of the Nazi sterilization program became more widely known after World War II, sterilizations in some American states did not stop. Some states continued to sterilize residents into the 1970s.
So when I read this kind of crap, I am reminded of the danger behind this kind of twisted thinking and those that would subscribe to it.-
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dissent7 months, 3 weeks ago
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i've lived in some of the most densely populated places in the world where every square foot is precious and just one room must house not just one but 3 or 4 entire families. it's not what could be called a physically, mentally or spiritually healthy environment. so this is a very real issue that goes beyond "the darkest nature of human evils." this not about bigoted misguided fears or sick fascist fantasies
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here's some stats easily found at wikipedia that help spell out what amounts to a very real and serious crisis:
1800 - 978,000,000
1900 - 1,650,000,000
1950 - 2,518,629,000
1970 - 3,692,492,000
1990 - 5,263,593,000
2000 - 6,070,581,000
2009 - 6,767,207,393
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population
do you think this kind of growth is sustainable? -
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Charlson7 months, 3 weeks ago
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I think nature has it's own solution to "thinning out the herd". Think in terms of plagues, droughts, famine, floods, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, volcanic eruptions, and the numerous disasters that can befall man. And man can also exasperate the thinning process with wars, the inability to prepare for climate change and a callous disregard for others.
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lvrofwolves7 months, 3 weeks ago
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This is a valid issue, concern. I think thinning the herd is morally wrong on every level, BUT I am not opposed to putting limits on the amount of children people can bring into the world, as long as it was 100% fair. I just don't know how it would be possible to implement such a thing realistically. If everyone acted responsibly, we wouldn't be faces with such questions. We have choice, or nature chooses for us one way or another. I'm all for quality of life and health etc..for everyone already here and we should concentrate on that.
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lvrofwolves7 months, 3 weeks ago
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yeah wolfie2007 I know you don't agree with supporting life that's already here, that the 'not even thought of' and eggs are most important, who cares about quality of life after they are born, yep! that seems to be your way of thinking. Don't you have children or grandchildren you can think of and be concerned about their quality of life?
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aceofspades17 months, 3 weeks ago
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At the risk of being labeled an "elitist", let me state this simple fact - people at the lower end of the socio-economic scale as well as the intellect scale tend to reproduce at a higher rate, leading to greater disparity worldwide. I believe that it is incumbent upon the opposite to reproduce at a higher rate. Those of better economic position or of the "intelligentsia" who believe they are doing the world a favor by having less children are actually doing us all a disservice.
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Peter Benchley author of Jaws believed that it was the natural course for disease & other life-limiting events in the third world to be left unchecked in that it was the natural order to keep the unsustainable populations of those areas in check.-
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dissent7 months, 3 weeks ago
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many parts of the world, especially among the poor, children are seen as an investment for their parents' old age. when the parents are old they have somebody (their children) to provide and take care of them. otherwise they would wind up begging in the streets as many already do around the world. when you have nothing else going for you this becomes a viable option. it's been like this since antiquity.
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many countries (not just people) at the lower end of the socio-economic scale are dictated to by church and religion not to use birth control but to make more (poor, starving, uneducated) babies for god and thus ensure the church maintains its validity into the future, disregarding any concern that over-population impinges on the possibilities of a future
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antibrainwasher7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Kill all religion, and absolutely thin the herd. Amazing that conservatives, who are addicted to slave labor, tout the anti-abortion pro religion no birth control platform, like the murdering arseholes they are.
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Overpopulation makes the rich richer. Union busting cowards love their cheap help, and when they can't find it here, they'll move to indonesia or some other overpopulated craphole where people are cheap and starving.
And don't you love the bible thumping anti-abortion, anti-birth control inbred cletis snake handling terry shivo voting republicans for caribu Barbie to vote to put these murdering cons in power.-
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sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned
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Bkumm7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Ah, yes, thinning the herd. Well, I think it depends on what that means. We have been having this argument as a species for the last two hundred years or so and some people have taken the idea to the extreme.
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Malthus wrote that the herd would be thinned because there wouldn't be enough resources to go around. That, of course, became moot through technology.
Hitler (and others) wanted to thin the herd through eugenics.
Mao and Stalin wanted to thin the herd by getting rid of "undesirables".
However, it is my belief, sustained by evidence, that the best way to thin the herd is through economics. First world countries, including the US, have had steadily lower birthrates throughout the last half of the twentieth century. Immigration from second and third world countries changes the equations in these countries, except for places, like Japan, where immigration is strictly limited both by geography and law. What is needed is to bring every person on Earth up to a certain economic level (I do not have a number here) and the population will become self-limiting.
We shall see if the First World countries have the foresight to make this happen.-
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dissent7 months, 3 weeks ago
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"We shall see if the First World countries have the foresight to make this happen."
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despite all rhetoric to the contrary it has never been in the interest of first world countries to make this happen.... not while there are still resources and manpower to exploit. in many ways, slavery has simply evolved into a more sophisticated process. slaves now get to stay in their own countries and feed and house themselves, thereby keeping any grievances and troubles at a generally manageable arm's length -
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MisterX7 months, 3 weeks ago
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I think government documents would refer to them as "useless eaters".
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Human life is flat out precious. I'd rather "spread the wealth" to improve the quality of health care for everybody, than to allow the herd to be thinned out. When I make it to 65, I only hope that enough people share the same viewpoint so that I don't get placed on a lottery list for disposal.
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fiftynine7 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Mao and Stalin wanted to thin the herd by getting rid of "undesirables". "...Who was the comedian that said all you had to do to get rid of stupid people was take the warning labels off of things ? That would not be a bad approach for starters..lol
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Wolfie20077 months, 3 weeks ago
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The truth is that the US has minus zero population growth at the present time. Those of you who depend on government handouts need to worry about this because if there are no new workers and/or taxpayers then there will be no one to pay for your handouts. Ever thought about that?
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Bkumm7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Actually, Wolfie, the US does not have ZPG at this time. Immigration (legal and illegal) plus the fact that recent immigrants tend to have more children than more prosperous less recent immigrants means that the US population is growing more rapidly than any other industrialized nation on Earth except for, perhaps, Germany and the Netherlands. England is also seeing a recent growth spike due to these same factors.
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You do make a good point, in your own way of course, that a reduction in the number of workers will lead to a decrease in tax revenue if a country (like Japan) begins to see negative population growth. This can be offset in large part by increases in productivity as Japan has shown. This is not, however, a "welfare handout you lazy people" issue, but rather and issue of economic prosperity. -
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cowboygrandpa7 months, 3 weeks ago
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The herd is thinned daily. Sadly that is why there is so much misery. Children die of starvation all around the world. Peopple die of disease all aroud the world. People die from greed all around the world.
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Sure restrict everybodies rights to have children. I'll be there to fight ya !!! Who the hell made these people in charge ??? The very reasons that there is so much misery is that the elitists feel they deserve more than everybody else. There could be enough food and water if it wasn't dumped so that prices would remain high, or polluted so some can make their almighty dollar.
Yeah put money and luxury above human life. Good luck with that on Judgement Day.
The price of a life is your soul. The cost to me is to much. But I guess that is why I'll never be rich, nor do I desire to be. I don't want more than I need. If I have more I just give it to those who don't have what they need.
Not trying to tell anyone how to live, just saying that greed blinds one to stupidity.
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Bkumm7 months, 3 weeks ago
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You're right, of course, yet the world population continues to increase, especially in those places where children starve to death and disease is rampant. Greed also kills millions, yet the world population continues to rise.
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I agree with you that a government limitation of the number of children a family may have is a gross violation of the rights of the individual. Yet, we must, if we are to survive as a species, do what we can to bring everyone to a point of economic parity which, if the past trends continue, will lead to both peace and a natural reduction of population to more sustainable levels. -
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antibrainwasher7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Religion = no womens rights = women subjected to lives as ignorant breeding livestock = overpopulation, war, famine, disease, slave labor, and the rich owning everything by manipulating the ignorant masses, which is the platform of the repug party exactly.
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And listen to tools like Drug Gaybaugh and his minions like Wolfie sieg heil like the loyal brown shirt brown nosers they are. Anything to bend over for the rich.
Muslims number 1.5 billion now, that number will increase two fold in 50 years, listen the the right wing tools when it comes to that issue, the hyprcrits. They're all for stearlization for non-whites, they just don't have the cojones to say it, they'll dance around and immitate the fat racist Gaybaugh, and insinuate it, but never outright say it.
Funny how coward cons are all for war, but oppose abortion or birth control. Love the fetus, f... the children, the repugnicon platform. -
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aceofspades17 months, 3 weeks ago
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"And listen to tools like Drug Gaybaugh and his minions like Wolfie sieg heil like the loyal brown shirt brown nosers they are. Anything to bend over for the rich. "
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Wolfie -in case you missed that quote the first time - I reposted it for you with a nod to AW-
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dissent7 months, 3 weeks ago
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why single out muslims? look at roman catholicism!
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the irony never escapes me when a withered old "virgin" draped in gold sitting on mountains of some of the world's most horded and stolen wealth tells the poor around the planet not to swallow a pill or roll a polyurethane tube on their ugly bits
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willottica7 months, 3 weeks ago
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When the world runs out of oil, depopulation will soon follow. The ability to cheaply transport food to huge urban centers will dissipate, and so, in turn, will the huge urban centers. I believe that in the next century or two, almost definitely this millenium, this is likely, and that when it happens, people will need to live in close proximity to their sources of food once again. We will likely return to a sustainable agrarian society (if the civil collapse and ensuing starvation riots don't descend us all the way back to barbarism first).
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willottica7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Obviously, this is a gloomy scenario, but all great civilizations have eventually come falling down, with the obvious exception of our own.
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I would like to believe that our own would be different, but I don't see why it would. We have not developed a sustainable model. We expand without end and without regard to future needs. We consume more than we can produce, and efforts to become "sustainable" are criticized as "anti-capitalistic" (or socialistic).
Oil has long been known to be a non-renewable resource, yet long-term planning to ration its use and ensure supply for future generations has been neglected. Instead, we increase demand and dependance on it more every year. Our economy and our civilization as we know it is based on a premise of cheap oil. Without it, moving massive quantities of goods around the globe would be impossible or prohibitively expensive.
We saw last year how devastating it could be when oil doubled in price, but if it starts to run out (when it starts to run out?), supply and demand will really take hold of the market. An increasingly limited supply, with no prospect of renewal, will make last year's prices look cheap by comparison.
Without cheap oil, other energy prices will increase, including electricity and heating costs. The "right" to live in one's own home will likely be replaced with the "privilege" of living somewhere, anywhere, that has sufficient heat in winter (or cool in summer).
On the bright side, the value of labor (or man-power) should once again go up, since it won't so easily be replaced by fossil-fuel-power. -
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willottica7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Alternatively, it's possible that we will find a way to harness nuclear power as cheaply and efficiently as we have harnessed the power stored in fossil fuels. This may allow us to continue with our current high-energy lifestyle for millenia to come.
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We live in the "Information Age", characterized by the rapid development of systems to access and distribute information, but much of this information does little to further our survival or make our lives better. We just have access to more information (and disinformation)!
I think we shall all suffer the old Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times."
I, for one, plan to view that curse as a blessing, and enjoy the new experiences as just that: ways to learn more about myself, human nature, and the world around me; and opportunities to see things I wouldn't otherwise have known.
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hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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simonsez7 months, 3 weeks ago
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I don't think it's our call to thin the herd other than limiting our families to what we can afford. Nature has a way of maintaining a sense of balance on the planet and will adjust any unusual stresses upon it's resources.
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One thing not mentioned is the effect of gay relationships around the world. It adds to the population of Boston Bulls and pugs,but no new little kiddies ... -
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foksipayne7 months, 3 weeks ago
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I gave you a neg, cuz that's just cruel, but are we sure that some of the stuff isn't already doing that? When I was a kid we all said mountain dew contained an ingredient that caused sterility. Never found out if there was any truth to it.
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militaryfanclubComment removed: Spam
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ELISHEVA17 months, 3 weeks ago
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stop! there is no us and them. we do not own the earth, ultimately it 'owns' us. we are at the mercy of Nature AND btw global warming is due to the massive growth of the sun which has occurred previously but not in the last 38,000 years.
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this is the pre ice age which will commence in 2035! get with the program. we need to figure out how to live in those conditions that will be upon us in a few short years. if we care about our kids this is what we will focus on - reintegration with nature. working and cooperating, together.
lastly, we have no right to presume that we know someone else better than they know themselves. we cannot judge anyone. we are not them and we do not have all the facts of their life. mostly - we need to stop thinking that we know better than the next guy... we are not in any position to judge anyone else at this level. focus on yourself. (usually this is taught in grade 1.) -
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tmilke17 months, 3 weeks ago
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Okay, so we decide to "thin the herd" by introducing birth control laws. Soon after that, I can see someone stepping up to the plate and saying "That's not enough". Then we start having arguments about what to do with the homeless, the elderly, the mentally ill. Being a drain on society, shouldn't they be next on the list to be 'thinned'?
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Let the Earth take care of the population by itself. Then we don't have to worry about the nightmare of genocide. -
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toph19737 months, 3 weeks ago
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I'm trying to do my part. I will never have any children. This world is way too overpopulated as the article states. People need to be more realistic about having children. I'm all for a hefty tax for every child after one. I'm all in favor of having a license to have children.
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It's too bad that people like the octomom, the people with 8 kids get all of this press. There is no reason anyone needs to have this many kids. I have no respect for people that overpopulate the planet like this. -
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reallypsst7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Dont worry people i have my money on human nature,and its a sure bet we will in time be the cause of our own doom.Mankind has a natural flaw built in his genes for self destruction,And we are experts at destroying every and anything,natural disasters are just our playing field!
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charles12345678907 months, 3 weeks ago
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The problem is, the people who espouse these ideas never volunteer to offer themselves up by suicide to save the planet. They always want someone else to die.
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We are in this mess because humans are inherently selfish and greedy (like this guy). We need to return to precepts that value human life. Like the bumper sticker says, "We must live on less so that others may simply live."
The words of Jesus ring true, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself". If we do this, our national economic miracle will return and the planet will be saved.
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