Prosecute or Perish »
Posted By jovial 10 months, 2 weeks ago in Political News"It will remain one of democracy's best jokes that it provided its deadly enemies with the means by which it was destroyed." - Joseph Goebbels
Gradually, as the veil of secrecy lifts, a growing number of Americans are beginning to comprehend the lawlessness of the cabal which seized control of the White House in 2000 in what amounted to a judicially-aided coup d'etat. This lawlessness extended across the board.
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jovial
Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...
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jovial10 months, 2 weeks ago
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sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned3 Replies
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hyperbola10 months, 2 weeks ago
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These are very dangerous times in America. We got criminals like cheney, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, libby, abrams, feith, .... back in the bush sonny administration because we did not prosecute and jail them for Iran-Contra and the killing of 300,000 christians in central america, while lying to congress and the american people. If we do not jail the perpetators this time we will have them back again in the future. They are already esconded in right-wing think tanks and the Pentagon.
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Top Constitutional Scholar: Secret Bush Memos Amount to Treason
The memos lay the legal groundwork for the president to send the military to wage war against U.S. citizens; take them from their homes to Navy brigs without trial and keep them forever; close down the First Amendment; and invade whatever country he chooses without regard to any treaty or objection by Congress.
The memos are a confession. The memos could not be clearer: This was the legal groundwork of an attempted coup. I expected massive front page headlines from the revelation that these memos exited. Almost nothing. I was shocked.
Astonished, I sought a reality check -- and a formal legal read -- from one of the nation's top constitutional scholars (and most steadfast patriots), Michael Ratner of the Center for Constitutional Rights, which has been at the forefront of defending the detainees and our own liberties.
Michael Ratner: I call it "Fuhrer's law." What those memos lay out means the end of the system of checks and balances in this country. It means the end of the system in which the courts, legislature and executive each had a function and they could check each other.
What the memos set out is a system in which the president's word is law, and Yoo is very clear about that: the president's word is not only law according to these memos, but no law or constitutional right or treaty can restrict the president's authority.
What Yoo says is that the president's authority as commander in chief in the so-called war on terror is not bound by any law passed by Congress, any treaty, or the protections of free speech, due process and the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. The First, Fourth and Fifth amendments -- gone.
What this actually means is that the president can order the military to operate in the U.S. and to operate without constitutional restrictions. They -- the military -- can pick you or me up in the U.S. for any reason and without any legal process. They would not have any restrictions on entering your house to search it, or to seize you. They can put you into a brig without any due process or going to court. (That's the Fourth and Fifth amendments.) -
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oneironaut42010 months, 2 weeks ago
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Jovial, I'm actually with you on this. Our resources are indeed stretched thin right now, but to refuse to even attempt a criminal investigation is going to set a bad precedent for future politicians. Oh, I know...they're all corrupt, etc....but these two may have committed crimes against humanity, and that deserves at least the same amount of attention as was given to Clinton lying about a sexual act.
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When the question of Obama's birth certificate arose, conservatives said, "Why doesn't he just release it for examination if he has nothing to hide?"
So, why don't Bush and Cheney offer themselves up for investigation? If they have nothing to hide, they should be ready, willing, and able to do what it takes to prove their innocence to their world. If most of us were accused of a crime we know we didn't commit, wouldn't we be more than happy to assist investigators in clearing our names?
But no...instead, we're being told it's a waste of resources, there's not enough evidence to warrant an investigation, etc....yet millions upon millions of dollars were spent investigating a sexual act that did not kill anyone or invade any sovereign nations.
Yes, indeed....the hypocrisy of some right-wingers is truly stunning. 8( -
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hyperbola10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Americans should also be aware that the kinds of programs and ideology run by the Bush administration come directly from Nazi philosopher Carl Schmidt, who was a major advisor to Hitler. It is useful to compare what the nazi's claimed with what our right-wingers have been claiming in recent years (and as partially enumerated in the link I provided above):
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The Third Reich. Politics and Propaganda (p110)
http://books.google.es/books?id=mTAJXL69rfAC=PA110...
... The basis for the interpretation of all laws was now the National Socialist philosophy, as expressed by the party program and the speeches of the Fuhrer. Carl Schmidt, a constitutional lawyer, defined the principles of Nazi law as simply "a spontaneous emanation of the Fuhrer's will." This view was made quite explicit in a speech by Hans Frank, the Head of the nazi Association of Lawyers and of the Academy of German Law, in 1938:
1. At the head of the Reich stands the leader of the NSDAP as the leader of the German Reigh for life.
2. He is, on the strength of being leader of the NSDAP, leader and chancellor fo the Reigh. As such he embodies simultaneously, as head of State, supreme State power and, as chief of Government, the central functions of the whole Reich administration. He is head of State
and chief of the Government in one person. He is commader-in-cheif of all the armed forces of the Reich.
3. The Fuhrer and Reich Chancellor is the constituent delegate of the German people, who, without regard for formal preconditions, decides the outward form of the Reich, its structure and general policy. -
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hyperbola10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Finally Americans should be aware that the ideas of Carl Schmidt (the Fuhrer is the only law for a racially defined state) were imported into the US and are alive and well both in the US and Israel. Indeed, there are direct connections between Carl Schmidt and members of the Bush adminstration.
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The Great Awful Truths And What To Do About them
Leo Strauss And His Three Great Awful Truths
In the early part of the 20th Century, a young college student in Germany came under the sway of Carl Schmidt, who served in various professorial posts in German universities before becoming the political advisor to Adolf Hitler. The young protoge was Leo Strauss, who absorbed much of what the Nazi theoretician had to say, particularly with regards to the ineffectiveness of democracy and uselessness and corruption of democratic institutions, and why governance by a powerful, even dictatorial executive is so superior a form of government. Schmidt was the primary political influence on Adolf Hitler and guided much, if not most of Hitler's political program. And so impressed was Schmidt with his young protoge, that he eventually arranged for him to become an adjunct professor at the University of Chicago (Strauss' biographers routinely claim that Strauss was a Jewish refugee, escaping Nazi tyranny - a claim that is patently false), where he taught other subjects for many years while writing on the subject of political theory, and organizing a coterie of carefully selected and highly political students, whose political philosophy as guided by Strauss, has become known as "Neo-conservatism." As evidence of just how successful Strauss was in poisoning the minds of his young protoges, many of those students have gone on to become high officials in the administration of George W. Bush, Jr. Familiar names, such as John Bolton, Paul Wolfowitz, David Wurmser, Richard Perle and several other members of the Bush administration were part of this group. A few others that were never brought into the Bush administration have become quite influential while remaining outside it. Two of the most influential are William Kristol and Norm Podhoretz. The influence if this group has proven to be remarkably enduring, in spite of the fact that their political theories, when actually tried out in the real world, have uniformly proven to be complete and utter disasters (they were the architects of the Iraq war, and the most recent Israeli invasion of Lebanon, for example). ... -
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donald51Comment removed: Hard Banned
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Poulenc10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The answer, Jovial, is that the Dems' plate is quite heaping at the moment.
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It's never (well, almost never) a matter of either-or; still, with the profound and numerous--and numerously interlocking--problems besetting the country at the moment, the issue of Bush and Co. perfidy must take a back seat.
In short, holding that regime's hands to the fire, which would be endlessly satisfying, would only and detrimentally complicate the nation's attempts at recovery.
PS, I'm all for tar-and-feathering.-
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jovial10 months, 2 weeks ago
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I understand that Poulenc, but the longer this issue remains unaddressed the more substantial the question becomes, "Why are we bringing it up now? Why didn't we address it as soon as Bush left office?" I think as the months and days pass us by, the chances of a successful conviction wither away. What do you think?
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cushi10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Poulenc, although I do understand where you're coming from, I vehemently disagree!! What can be more crippling to this country than to have documentation that it's former leader and administration is guilty of high crimes and treason??
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One of the reasons we in such a state of moral decay is that we have allowed people in power to behave corruptly with impunity!! That has sent a very unfortunate and pervasive message that with money and power, anything goes. If we do not address the grievous crimes of the Bush administration, we are too far gone and we will self destruct.
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sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned15 Replies
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DarkWizard10 months, 2 weeks ago
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FTA - "It would make no sense, for example, for a man charged with armed robbery to come before a judge and say, "Well, the robbery was in the past. You've got to look forward. I have every intention of abiding by the law in the future. So why prosecute me?" Second, looking forward does not mean handling current events at the expense of the rule of law. The point is to look far enough into the future to appreciate that the same people who brought us the last eight years of executive lawlessness could one day return to power..."
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I think this paragraph brings us to an understanding of "perspective." We can't really move forward until we deal with the past. Pretending the last 8 years didn't happen won't work any better than pretending the last 30 years didn't happen and so on.
If America doesn't deal with the crimes against her during the Obama administration we will become a dictatorship or an oligarchy. If a more competent President than Bush had been in office the last 8 years we would already have lost our democracy. -
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calitennflo10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The word cabal if from two words, latin and one hebrew. cab- the equal measure between two courts, and al- the essence of, or pertaining to.
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The word Cabal in Washington, means a small group set out to overthow others (governments) The NSC (National Security Council) fosters policy in this manner...and the NSA protects what the NSC does.
The ACLU found that no-one in the US has a security clearance high enough to look into what they do. The dress of the NSA, reminds me of high tech KKK.
Truth...a cabal is used to cause civil war...it's the same as a gift giver and a destroyer combined. It's easily beat...by just a gift giver...and I personally choose to be like the rest that surrounds me...untitled and a gift.(free)
I laugh, as we are all gifted...and the gift giver has never been beat.
See...free is a requirement of freedom. -
hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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ShixaComment removed: Retracted by user
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Endoscopy10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Typical foolish liberals. Just like a dog with a bone that is too tough for them to chew. Gnaw on it all the time and wonder why it can't get anything out of it. Ranting does not work in a court of law. but liberals never want to admit that little fact. Why didn't Pelosie do something when she could. Maybe she knew something that you foolish liberals ignore. She knew there was absolutely NO EVIDENCE.
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This poor guy is still ranting that Bush lost the election. There were many counts that were official and unofficial. Bush won according to all the official counts and all but the most partisan count of the unofficial counts. Why do liberals like to beat a dead horse so much? -
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Poulenc10 months, 2 weeks ago
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Cushi and others, my point is that going ahead with bringing Bush and Co. to justice <i>at this time</i> would cause a partisan gang-up that would halt or seriously undermine O.'s efforts to repair the nation.
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My comment was based on a sense of what would work <i>now</>, on realpolitik.
Of course, I share your outrage over the perfidy of the former administration.-
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cushi10 months, 2 weeks ago
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No problem, as long as it gets dealt with in not too distant a future! My fear is that the longer it goes unaddressed, the greater the potential that it will never be properly addressed. I would rather run the risk of partisan fighting than continue to see those heinous criminals walking around scott free with their arrogant noses in the air.
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Shadowolf10 months, 2 weeks ago
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The solution is easy....set it up so that all the NeoConArtists "win" a free trip to Holland...have the stewardesses load 'em all with free booze,(or drugs)...land the plane(s) at the Hague...disembark them, and have a forewarned Hague official standing by with warrants...and as they are marched to court make them walk under a huge banner that says "Mission Accomplished"
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donald51Comment removed: Hard Banned
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cowboygrandpa10 months, 2 weeks ago
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FTA:
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Gradually, as the veil of secrecy lifts, a growing number of Americans are beginning to comprehend the lawlessness of the cabal which seized control of the White House in 2000 in what amounted to a judicially-aided coup d'etat.[i] This lawlessness extended across the board. It included the packing of federal agencies with lobbyists from industries they were designed to regulate, deception to take this nation into a war of choice, fraudulent no-bid contracts, torture, extraordinary rendition, warrantless NSA eavesdropping on the entire stream of domestic electronic communications, and, if Seymour Hersh's recent allegations are accurate, the creation of a highly secretive "executive assassination ring" which reported only to Dick Cheney's office and which had "been going into countries, not talking to the ambassador or the CIA station chief, and finding people and executing them and leaving."[ii]
JUDE: 4
"4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ."
These are the kind of men we have had in office, who care only about what is profitable for them. They claim to be what they are not. They are deceivers who bring about the coming wars and violence with their ways.
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