Comments for GOP Sen. Promises 'WWIII' if Franken Legally Seated Before Federal Appeal »
Posted By jovial 9 months ago in NewsAs we wait for the 3-judge panel in Minnesota to issue their verdict in former Sen. Norm Coleman's U.S. Senate race, in which the Democratic challenger Al Franken was found to be the winner by a bi-partisan state canvassing board, D.C. lawmakers are cranking up the political battle which awaits beyond that decision, which could come any day now, and its predictable appeal to the MN Supreme Court by the loser (who will "probably" be Coleman, according to his own attorney ).
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jovial9 months ago
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Obstructionism. A solid and more often than not used tactic to manipulate politics in this country. It is used more often by Republicans than Democrats. This appears to be another desperate attempt to prevent the Republicans strangehold they once had on this country.
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive1 Reply
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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kneader9 months ago
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He certainly is a cheat, since he couldn't accept defeat when the election was over and had to buy the votes thru a 1870's hand count. I don't know about a lier, since I don't know what that is, but he surely is a liar, since he adheres to the politics of the current white house, led by the King of all liars, Obamanation himself.
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dunkirk9 months ago
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"He certainly is a cheat, since he couldn't accept defeat when the election was over "
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Kinda odd what this is saying is he didnt lose. Maybe you can send your post to Coleman, seems he LOST. Thats usually what having fewer votes mean.
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TcarosComment removed: Hard Banned
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hyperbola9 months ago
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I wonder how many Americans remember that Norm Coleman was one of the biggest purveyors of the zionist "oil-for-food scandal" distributed in the US to discredit the UN in israel's benefit?
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I wonder how many Americans realize that the purveyors of that crap have been convicted in court of distributing forged documents and lies both in the lead-up to the Iraq war and in the "scandal".
I wonder how many Americans know that the owners and collaborators of the newspapers that "created" the scandal have since been convicted of fraud.
I wonder how many Americans know that other US zioncons like Richard Perle were involved in the lies? -
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jovial9 months ago
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This from another member on propeller posted on another thread just a few minutes ago. This is why i feel that Republican politicians need to tame their rhetoric. McCain realized this to his credit during the campaign.
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/01/quotwe-t... -
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jovial9 months ago
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scott42619 months ago
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I am insulted that Norm Coleman managed to slither his way into Paul Wellstone's senate seat after the senator's untimely death in 2002. It's time we had a liberal back in that seat so Paul can stop SPINNING in his grave....
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And after some of the funniest and truthful books in politics, I'd hardly call Al Franken an idiot. Come On! Maybe not your humor....maybe he rubs you the wrong way....but he's not an idiot.
On the other hand, Rush Limbaugh....well, he is a big fat idiot!
And Norm....well, he's just an idiot.-
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scott42619 months ago
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I remember that election well....Rush and the righties made a big deal out of the liberals in attendance at Wellstone's funeral "into a campaign rally and managed to help Colman barely slip in at a time when the winds were moving against the Democrats...
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And it's too bad. Walter Mondale represented Minnesota much better than did Coleman.
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Oh, and by the way, Coleman won 49.53% of the vote...he may have won but he DID NOT get a majority vote. Let's be clear here.... -
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Beau78909 months ago
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I'm sure there will be some who call the WWIII statement "metaphorical."
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Put a bunch of "metaphorical" references together, and you get NLP--Neuro Linguistic Programming.
And for anyone who questions the technique--it's commonly used in marketing... -
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Spadecaller9 months ago
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jovial
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You are not the only one who has noticed that references to violent revolution against the Obama administration, comments about assassination prior to his victory, and threats of all kinds that had been uncharacteristic prior to Obama's presidency, would lead any reasonable person to suspect that there is more than the politics of obstructionism involved.
No other president was ever confronted by the politicians from the opposing party who would dare to even infer such outlandish threats. In fact, I believe that knowing that there is a large segment of this nation that would never vote for a black person plays into the hands of these politicians who use their hatred to manipulate their supporters. McCain even tried it and then regretted the horrible spectacle that it initiated. The display of the hatred and racism exhibited on national TV even forced McCain to denounce his "supporters." His supporter's hated the "black Muslim terrorist" running for president much more than they loved the GOP candidate. Let's get real about this, once and for all.
In addition to the majority of Americans who support the President, we have a huge population that is seething from the reality that our sitting president is not just a liberal, that he is not just a democrat, but that he is a BLACK liberal democrat!
The comments made be many of these people privately with friends and in their homes are often tinged with unpleasant references to his race. To pretend this does not exist is absurd and ignorant.
Clinton was attacked and the same obstructionism took place, but it never elicited threats of violent revolution. This is not just a political phenomenon; it's reflective of the racism that persists in this country.
Most of us see it frequently on Propeller and on countless other websites all over the internet. So lets stopping pretending that there is no elephant in the middle of the living room.
The truth is: the elephant is Obama and his living room is now in the white house. How does that make some people feel? How about OUTRAGED?-
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gamahuche9 months ago
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Very, very well said, SC.
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On the plus side I also do believe that there are also a significant number of former naysayers who ARE getting "acclimatised" and realising - perhaps for the first time - that the real world does NOT revolve around skin colour.
I will also add, because I have also experienced the way these things play out in Europe, that although the US way of "dealing" is more outspoken, raw and in-your-face, in SOME respects this is preferable to the covert behaviour which was operative. for example in the UK. Of course a lot of that was also about social class, even more than about skin-colour..-
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Spadecaller9 months ago
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Thanks g... I agree with your added perspectives as well. There are many people experiencing positive change from living with a President who has a different skin color. And as you stated, the "in-your-face" U.S. style of confrontation, though vulgar in its approach, is preferable to the closet behavior of some of our more "polite" European allies. Easier to address an open bigot than a closet one.
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Natureboy9 months ago
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"No other president was ever confronted by the politicians from the opposing party who would dare to even infer such outlandish threats."
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And what of FDR? The word is that a capitalist cabal approached Smedley Butler to lead a coup against him -
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Coup.htm
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cashbahrhdg9 months ago
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Nope it isn't just you. And we are taking our kids to buy rifles and pistols as well as weapn training over the next couple months. Our stimulous will go to "protect our nation against enemies foreign and domestic. Neocons - you are NOT the only ones who know how to protect itself.
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stopmisandry9 months ago
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It's just you. Unless you also complained about the Democratic Party's well-advertised "War On Poverty". Plus the actions of Janet Reno, the Wicked Witch Of Waco, against the women and children of the Branch Davidians (all of whom were acquitted of murder charges by reason of self-defense to an unprovoked attack by federal agents) and against the inhabitants of Ruby Ridge (to whom Reno's DoJ paid $2.5M as recompense for an unlawful attack after the father had all charges against him dismissed except for a misdemeanor 'failure to appear.')
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DenCuddy9 months ago
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Ruby Ridge was under Bush senior, stay on the subject.
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2130182/p...
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mesodude9 months ago
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"Today the word is World War III, does any one else notice the subtle hints at violence? Or is it just me?"
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--It's not your imagination. Their message is clear: They realize now that they can't rely on their usual ability to cheat and dupe people (other than uneducated cons) into voting for them anymore. Much like with the Iraq debacle, no one's buying what they're peddling so now they're acting like terrorists again. Not a good approach to resuscitating a movement that's seriously in flames. Not at all.
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Ciera-Marie9 months ago
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Coleman tried to steal the election, was caught, not bowing out like he said before recount began, is a sore loser, preventing Minnesotans our due representation in DC, and I'm not surprised. I knew Coleman would do this if the election went in Frakens favor. Heck if Franken was in Colemans position he;d try to be in DC before recount. then rulings done.
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Ciera-Marie9 months ago
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Correction (I typed above one handed with a cat on my lap who needed a lot of cuddles.):
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"Heck if Franken was in Colemans position he'd try to be in DC before recount, then rulings done."
Should include: "Meaning Coleman would try to be in DC before recount then rulings done."
Glad my friends new what I meant. -
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epiphannyy9 months ago
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This, from the same party that fought so tenaciously in 2000 to prevent a state run recount in the Bush vs. Gore election. Now they want MULTIPLE state run recounts when THEY are the ones needing the votes?
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Yet another prime example of GOP hypocrisy in action.
And I'm not even going to get into the whole "WWIII" threat. These people have proven time and again how truly unAmerican they all are. Armed revolution......WWIII........what's next? Seeking out plutonium to build their own personal nuke???? -
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willottica9 months ago
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Let me try this again. I'd like the remarks put into context.
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Jovial, could you please update us with a link giving the context of the remarks about WWIII? This sounds like extremely inflammatory language and I'm outraged! I'd like to know exactly who said it, and how they could have possibly phrased it and thought it was actually acceptable!-
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willottica9 months ago
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If you read this article in the Minnesota Independent, they too, are trying to find out the context of this quote:
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http://minnesotaindependent.com/30489/franken-corn...-
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Beau78909 months ago
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When language like this continues to be fed to the public, there's more going on than "out of context" quotes.
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Use aggressive language repeatedly in any context and you begin to elicit aggression from your audience. Psychologists have studied the idea; advertisers use it.
It's similar to repeating a lie over and over again...people begin to believe it.-
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willottica9 months ago
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But why can't I find ANY context. I searched for over an hour and see "WWIII" and "World War III" in quotation marks all over the place, as though attributed, but noone provides any context whatsoever. This makes me suspicious.
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People, politicians included, make casual reference to hyperbolic violence fairly commonly... It's only when a particular speaker repeats it over and over that it may be indicative of something more.
Twice, in the case of the republican congresswoman, and one mention of WWIII by a republican Governor (far removed from the situation and any potentially violent 'audience' I might add), does not strike me as being repeated and systematic. What is repeated and systematic is the out-of-context quotes. Why is it so hard to find an article that includes the context?
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jovial9 months ago
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Here's all that I can gather, but I can't give you any specific context. The story seems to have started at Politico.com and here's the link to the story. After this article it spread across the internet like wildfire.
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0309/20634.ht...
The author of the story is Manu Raju. A journalist with a respectable reputation. So what context do you think it was done in?-
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willottica9 months ago
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I haven't the faintest clue what the context was. I really don't think that Cornyn "threatened" WWIII (you'll notice that threat is never quoted, only WWIII). Not even a republican Governor is dense enough to think that an American-only issue over a Senator's election would result in a war joined by multiple countries.
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As far as Manu Raju is concerned, I've never heard of him, but the Minnesota Independant and I are both waiting for his reply as to the context.
What context do I think? I think it was probably hyperbole, meaning that the republicans in Minnesota would be very upset.
Do you think he was proposing to lead them in starting a War? Do you think he was suggesting that Coleman lead them in starting a War? Do either of those sound like a remotely plausible explanation?
Not to me.
In your article, the only mention Manu Raju makes of WWIII is in his hook line. If it were such an incendiary comment, shouldn't he commented on it more?
Later in the article, Raju says: "Both sides are girding for a long battle" Would you really interpret this to mean that both sides are dressing for war?-
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jovial9 months ago
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You said you hadn't the faintest clue, but then went on to say you didn't think the senator would do that. You're obviously biased. As biased as those you brazenly accuse. BTW, Manu Raju is a woman. You have represented every side of this issue from the viewpoint that it rubbish. You claim however, you hold no position on the matter. Never once did you even consider the merit of the story from that perspective. You call me out on the story as though I personally insulted you. The story is what it is. Sit here and wait for your answer. Stand on your head and scream from the rafters. This is the story. I'm finished here. And please don't ask me anymore questions. If you do they will fall on deaf ears. You've wasted enough of my precious time. Sheesh! That's what you get from some people when they ask you a question and then you answer it.
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lovemylibs9 months ago
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By the way, Manu Raju is not a woman:
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http://www.politico.com/reporters/ManuRaju.html -
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willottica9 months ago
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I appreciate your attempt to answer the question as best you could.
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At the time I asked it, I thought there might be more context to be found, somewhere.
Then you asked me a question. I answered first from facts I knew, (i.e. no clues are to be found about the context), then I gave my opinion.
And then I asked you about yours.
I think you saw my questions as slanted, and I think you were probably right. I'm sorry that I didn't work harder at maintaining neutrality.
I didn't present anything to lead you to believe that I saw the story as anything but rubbish, just as you haven't presented anything that would lead me to believe that you see the story as anything but Gospel Truth. It's possible neither of us is making a very good attempt to stay balanced, or maybe we're both neglecting a side in order to restore balance.
I did not attempt to call you out as though you insulted me. What I did was question the "source" of the story, as far as the person who introduced it to propeller. I also questioned you, because you once again filed as "News" something that seems editorial, and you pointed that fact out in yesterday's conversation.
I would personally not submit a story that I believe to be significantly biased. I think that the world of Social News has turned everyone into a potential journalist, and that even though we are not professionals, we should still consider some of the same ethical considerations that professionals abide by. Obviously, there are those that disagree with me and view social News sites as little more than a source of entertainment. I'm not attempting to lecture, just let you know where I'm coming from so that we can agree to disagree in the future.-
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jovial9 months ago
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Nice response. I think that it maybe worthwhile to continue this discussion. The probability of him saying it in my opinion is pretty high. Whether he meant WWIII in the literal sense is not probably realistic to gather from the statement. IMO, he meant there would be a strong reaction to the seating of Al Franken as the senator from Minnesota. Now exactly what reaction that may be is certainly open to question. It could mean more frivolous lawsuits, it could mean protests, or it could mean violence. It's all open to conjecture. I just don't think if he said this that it needed to be said, and if he didn't say it, he should call it out as a lie. This is all over the internet. I'm sure he is aware of this quote already. I await his response to the allegation as you wait for the context. BTW, you are you and i am I, I'm happy that you feel so much journalistic integrity. I am not a journalist and I probably will never be one. I am a man with strong convictions that has lived through and continues to see a lot of injustice. I have determined that there are really no rules to the game. Life isn't fair. Although, like you i wish it were so. So here we stand.
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willottica9 months ago
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As a matter of course, I tend to favor bluntness. In life, I sometimes need to take considerable effort from putting things exactly as I see them, so that I don't offend someone that I care about.
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I come on propeller as something of an escape. It is my outlet that allows me to argue with similarly thinking people (arguing with pc25 and libsRfunny, though sometimes seeming necessary, is seldom fulfilling) and to further develop my own opinions based on what I learn from them. Sometimes I forget that people on here are people too. It's not just a sounding-board of ideas, but there are real, feeling people that have left themselves vulnerable to attack by posting them.
I seldom intend to attack a poster, but I sometimes skewer ideas quite violently.
A friend of mine posited that the best world government would be one where a group of mathematicians who did not know each other worked together anonymously. There would be no politics, no hurt feelings. The best ideas would succeed because there would be no questioning of motive, no jealousy, no hurt feelings.
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As far as this story goes. I hope when a decision is made that the loser will give up and not drag things on ad nauseum. (I also have always hoped for a Franken win - we need more intentional comedians in government.)
Did Cornyn need to "threaten" "WWIII"? No.
Do I think it was a deliberate attempt to incite violence? No, is my first response. But only in context could I hope to make more than a wild guess.
Do I think it's part of a systemic stepping up of violent rhetoric by the Republican party? Not really. I haven't observed such happening. References to violent action, hyperbolic, metaphorical, and otherwise, are not something I've just started to notice. I've seen them from the Right, the Left, and the Independant. I've seen them since before this election and before the last. What I have seen is a marked increase in the hoopla surrounding them. Reporters, or perhaps more accurately, bloggers, seem to have been taking more notice of individual words, and often making them into something that wasn't immediately obvious.
There was the editorial cartoon about the chimp. I have friends who saw misogyny throughout Obama's campaign. And those from the right and the left who see racism behind every tree. Is some there? Undeniably. I'm sure there were some misogynists who couldn't stand the thought of a woman president, racists who can't stand the thought of a black president, and maybe even the occasional speaker who is deliberately evoking images of violence to spark a revolt. But I don't think it's widespread, and I don't think it's present in the majority of cases that are reported on (or blogged about).
But those are just my thoughts. I could be wrong, and we could be wise to pay attention to the slightest verbal gaffe. Freud was a brilliant man after all. Maybe people are (intentionally or accidentally) saying what they really mean.
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jovial9 months ago
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Oh Btw, I submitted some more stories today. Check them out if you like. The Michael Moore one is especially controversial if you like that style, some of the other ones aren't as controversial, but they're still good stories IMHO. LOL!
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Goppy9 months ago
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This is all a natural ... and predictable ... outgrowth of the IDEOLOGY.
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The Modern Republican has an ideology "Win At All Costs FIRST ... THEN worry about the consequences." This Machiavellian approach was instilled into the party by Newt Gingrich.
I personally believe Newt was inspired by Lee Atwater.
Newt took Atwater's native ability and codified it as part of his Republican Revolution.
But it was Karl Rove - 'the architect' - who evolved it to be the soul of The Modern Republican.
Do whatever it takes to win. Win at all costs.
Norm Coleman is following The Modern Republican Campaign playbook to a 'Tee'. It certainly is unflattering to observe.
However - it does point out the Fundamental Moral Vacancy of The Modern Republican Party.
This is - after all - the same party that endorses TORTURE ... and KEEPING CHILDREN FROM OBTAINING HEALTH CARE.
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What would any sane person expect?
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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Children in this country have better health care than in other systems. Don't ask for the latest cancer drug in England. Don't hope a specialist will see you soon in Canada. Don't expect any medical breakthroughs in North Korea. And what torture are you talking about? Water-boarding the architect of the Cole incident? Obama would have done the same thing. Why else did he reserve the right for the president to allow real torture whenever he thinks it necessary? Coleman won the election and the democrats couldn't bear that, so they devised a strategy to unbalance the outcome through selective recounting. Coleman wants a chance to fight back. Gopy thinks that's unfair because of Karl Rove. The truth is that every party wants to win at all costs. Democrats know this better than anybody. They have controlled over 60% of elected offices for years now, and they are bent on creating a one-party system through character assassination frivolous law suits or any other strategy.
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Beau78909 months ago
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Uh huh. Do you have any kind of evidence to show that the 8.3 million children without insurance are mostly either illegal aliens, wealthy or children of people who "chose" not to purchase insurance? I won't hold my breath waiting.
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Many become insured within a year? Even more lose their insurance within a year. The number of uninsured children is going up, not down.
We do not have a "good system." The World Health Organization ranks us close to the bottom of developed nations regarding healthcare.
Obama made Hillary Secretary of State because she wouldn't have accepted HHS and stopped fighting him. Not that this has anything to do with the point.
Here is an excellent and detailed single-payer plan proposed by medical professionals that addresses most of your concerns...unless those concerns are for the welfare of those who profit by withholding care from the uninsured:
http://www.pnhp.org/publications/proposal_of_the_p...
I wonder what you'd find worse about it than our current system. -
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Beau78909 months ago
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The fact is: 8.3 million children in the U.S. lack health insurance (in 2004--latest figures available).
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http://www.epi.org/economic_snapshots/entry/webfea...
That's unacceptable, and it's a fact solely because of Republicans blocking expansion of SCHIP and healthcare reform.-
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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It's lovely if everything works out exactly as they say. Trouble is that doctors are not the economist, not the public executives who have to implement the plan. Such a sweeping change of paradigm will have unintended consequences beyond anything you can imagine. The effect of illegal aliens, for example, would be felt here to a greater extent than in other countries. Further, the article you presented is written by doctors who are FOR a single-payer plan. Where's the analysis from the doctors who are against or indifferent to a single-payer plan? One reason a doctor might be for such a plan is that he cares deeply about the poorest in our society. Another reason might be that under such a plan it is hard to impossible to sue for malpractice.
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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Largely illegal aliens, childred of the wealthy and children of individuals who chose not to take insurance for various reasons. Furthermore many of these become insured within a year. Statistics are woderful things but sea-changes in policy based on simplistic conclusions are not. All conservatives are in favor of improving coverage, but not at the cost of destroying the good system we have.
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Question-- why did Obama make Hillery S. of State? To keep her away from health care. He knows his plan is flawed and she pointed it out.-
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CRYMTYPHON9 months ago
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Sheer quantity is no substitute for actualy saying anything.
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Start with your top statement.
You said US children recieve better health care than kids in other countries.
By the World Health Org ranking, we are 37th; way below Morocco..
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Give us a link, a statistic, - a figure, some actual fact or we will assume you are trying to bore us to conviction.
Which, granted, is a kind of strategy. -
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willottica9 months ago
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I like the way you include "for various reasons" to make your statement technically true.
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Yes, one of the "various reasons" individuals choose not to take insurance is because they can't afford both insurance AND food. In that situation, I'd choose food, too. -
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CRYMTYPHON9 months ago
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EdwardIII:
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If you are saying that most, or even a large part, of those who are
uninsured in this country do so because they are illegal aliens,
rich kids and people just not into health insurance, -
You are not wrong.
You are not spinning.
You are not miscommunicating.
You are not looking at one side of the coin.
You are flat out lying.
And no, we don't really care why.
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Ciera-Marie9 months ago
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No Edward, Coleman did not win the election. Because it was a tie (due to Coleman trying to steal the election.) it had to go to recount. BTW our Republican Governor who has supported everything the Bush administration has done praised the recount and appointed some of the judges who just happen to be republicans. But yet you and the rest of the RNC party and neo con's want to attack what works in MN.
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Fight back my ass. He's preventing Minnesotans from having a representative in DC. He's a bully, sore loser, hypocrite (said he would not do what he is doing right now.), who is just delaying the process. And you can bet your last dollar if he tries to go the US Supreme Court he won't be reelected. -
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Ratskii9 months ago
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Got a source on that? I've been hearing that we rate 14th to 17th in the world using a variety of health indicators which include lifespan, infant mortality, cancer survival rates, etc.
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Still not a good position to be in, but I don't wish to exaggerate a good argument.-
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dunkirk9 months ago
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And let me guess you proof is from LimpBoy. But its rather confusing since you also use those thousands of illegals to say they are driving up health care costs with their frequent visits to the er. Maybe you can decide which one it is or is that based on what is being discussed?
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CRYMTYPHON9 months ago
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Hi Ratskii:
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here is the world health org rankings;
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
That matches other orgs pretty closely.
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Candida9 months ago
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EDWARDIII: "Don't hope a specialist will see you soon in Canada."
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Do you live in Canada, or do you know this from hearsay? Would you consider same day or next day soon? A friend was seen by a neurosurgeon the same day his symptoms firsts appeared, and I was seen by a specialist the day after I went to my family doctor. I consider that soon.-
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willottica9 months ago
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Your cousins are mean! ;-)
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I would never laugh at someone who if they suffer from an illness or injury they are likely to either be bankrupted or die from it.
Pity, maybe. Especially when that same person who is closer than they know to personal disaster rigorously defends the system that keeps them there.-
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jovial9 months ago
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On my last visit they laughed at me as well. My friend is a meat packer from B.C. He gets the standard healthcare that everyone else gets, and in addition he gets worldwide coverage through his company. So if he travels to Burma or someother country and needs medical assistance it's covered! My jaw dropped to the floor. He's not a CEO or a congressman, he's just a regular blue collar worker. My daughter had to move back in with me and become my dependent so that I could provide her with healthcare. She lost her job and couldn't find another with benefits.
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willottica9 months ago
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Yup. I have coverage anywhere in the world through my company. Actually, the provincial health care covers most of the cost for us to be insured when traveling; it's just incidentals (hotel rooms, flight changes, family flying to see us while in hospital) and extraordinary costs that are covered by the private insurance.
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When we were building houses in Mexico and my wife broke her ankle, we went to a hospital in San Diego for treatment. We didn't have our travel insurance cards with us, so we actually saw the bill: $3,000 for the x-ray and a misdiagnosis of it not being broken. When we got back, (after her ankle worsened and a doctor here re-diagnosed it as a break) her supplementary insurance through the University of Lethbridge (about $120 a year) covered the hassle of coordinating the public insurance payment and any amounts remaining.
One of the most interesting things: the policy she has (and most of them) specifically requires that you call the insurer BEFORE getting treatment abroad. I would assume this is to guard against outrageous expenses. Anyway, from what I've heard, it sounds like American Insurance Companies would take that excuse (or any other) to avoid paying the claim. Because private insurance in Canada is really optional (you don't need it for most things), it seems that the insurance companies actually view customers as customers (that they have to treat well).
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bruhaha9 months ago
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"I would never laugh at someone who if they suffer from an illness or injury they are likely to either be bankrupted or die from it."
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Well they don't laugh at us for that......I think it's more of a laugh of disbelief...they can't figure our opposition to universal health care out.
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Ratskii9 months ago
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Very clumsy paragraph, EdwardIII. You lump a bunch of very different topics together. D-
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1) Children in the country don't have better health care than in all other systems. Our country is variously ranked 14th to 17th in terms of the health care we provide to our citizens. What we do have is the most expensive health care.
2) Have you tried asking for the latest cancer drug in this country?
3) There is a great deal more in question than water-boarding of the architect of the Cole incident.
4) Coleman did not win the election. The election was very close and Minnesota law required a recount. Franken won the recount and now Coleman is contesting it in court.
5) What are you talking about? Democrats have controlled over 60% of elected offices for years? What are you drinking? -
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dunkirk9 months ago
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YOu must have missed the post on that, Ill repost.
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http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_fra...
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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Goppy9 months ago
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Frivolous Lawsuit?
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Hmm - I bet lovemylibs will jump all over you for this comment.
lovemylibs HATES it when Propeller members bring in topics not referenced in the article - or mentioned by anyone in the thread.
lovemylibs is famous for - actually, the epitome of the double standard.
Of course, double-standards ... well ... hypocrisy .... is actually the "Hallmark" of The Modern Republican.
It's all part of that smug audacity of labeling themselves the "Party of Life" - - - as they spread death and destruction in Iraq ... on a whim.
And here at home - they work awfully hard to make sure children don't get access to health care.
And of course, we can't forget how The Modern Republican disrespects our men and women soldiers. --- Cutting the G.I. Bill, cutting funding for Head Trauma centers.
You know, I'm actually looking forward to Sarah Palin running for President. She represents exactly how 'off base' The Modern Republican is.
I still here her rousing speech at the Convention ... "We need Government to GET OUT OF THE WAY of business ... "
Of course, this was during the time when the Bush administration was ignoring warnings about certain Hedge Funds being unregulated.
Ah yes ... The Modern Republican is so .... so .... out of touch with reality.
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lovemylibs9 months ago
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Thanks for the prayers, Goppy. Now, if I could only understand how something you posted is now being portrayed by you as "imagined" and internal. Here it is on the external if you don't believe me. You count plusses and negs and thinks that they are indicative of your superiority:
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/03/23/republic...
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lovemylibs9 months ago
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Awe, Goppy - , you know I love you most because you are a posting double standard on almost any thread you grace.
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Here's a fine example of your double standardness:
http://goppychristianconservative.blogspot.com/200...
This bizarre web page was written by someone who is malignantly narcissistic. As proof, I offer this sentence from that strange page:
"I consider the charge of un-American to be indefensible and fascist-like.
And yet, this page explains how you sent out messages titled "Hey America Hater".
How many times have you asked people why they hate America? Everyone on this thread has seen you do it. You have posed that question to me. You should seek professional help to help you understand why this is wrong.
Also on that twisted page is a thorough explanation of your classic "bait" technique, as used by Edinbug. It was comical to read how Edinbug blamed another poster for receiving an inflammatory PM written by Edinbug. After receiving this PM, their response was in kind. To which Edinbug's response was escalation. And then Edinbug's anger grew to a level to cause his banning. And then, since double standards are your forte', you blamed the other poster for causing Edinbug's banning. Innocent victim was your excuse. The double standard of a malignant narcissist is more likely.
And you rail about The Modern Republican being out of touch of reality. Can you keep a straight face when you type that? -
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lovemylibs9 months ago
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Sure, I'll agree with that. The difference, Ratskii, is that I have never sent a PM to anyone trying to bait them into a fight which could possibly lead to their banning. I have also had many interactions with reasonable liberals on Propeller and have learned from them. I have never called anyone an "America Hater".
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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Character assassination, frivolous law suits, demonstrations. Not really violent you say? But the damage is as real as violent damage. Am I stretching the point? Not if you believe Sarah Palin violated ethics by putting on an Artic Cat jacket-- a charge she had to defend in court at great cost.
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Beau78909 months ago
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I'm sorry, but I believe the right of the people to assemble peaceably is guaranteed by the 1st amendment to the Constitution.
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As for character assassination and frivolous lawsuits, I certainly hope you're not claiming Republicans would never engage in such activities.
And you may want to consider some of Palin's more egregious ethics violations, rather than the weakest example you can find. -
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ForrestPhelps9 months ago
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To: EDWARDIII
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Thanks for answering.
You had said: "The Democratic Party is a party to real violence against real people.", and I asked in what way. Your answer (above) really confuses me, so let's talk about it.
Character assassination - OK, to you that is "real violence"; to me - not so much, but I do think it is reprehensible. But if, in your opinion, this is violence, then I'll accept your definition, for the sake of this discussion. Next . . .
Frivolous lawsuits - This one, I won't accept as violence. But still, if you care to argue the point, I'll listen, Finally . . .
Demonstrations - well, I guess it depends on what the demonstrators do, doesn't it? If a person stands with a sign protesting something, is that a violent act?
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Next, I would ask, what is the damage? This article was about the Minnesota Senate race, but you answers seem to be about Governor Palin. Was her character assassinated? In my opinion, not any more so than just about any other Presidential/Vice-Presidential candidate I've ever seen. But if you feel she was treated worse, that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it.
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But to bring up the whole Arctic Cat incident again? Really? You're kidding, right?
I'll grant you that some of the ethics violations Gov. Palin's been accused of are probably not one's that needed to be filed (but a lot of them are), especially for a Governor who runs on "cleanin' up" the state.
But you would think, by now, that Governor Palin would err on the side of caution when it comes to making any public appearances. So, in my opinion, she's either giving evidence of A) not being to intelligent B) not caring - or -
she figures any publicity is good publicity, depending on how it's spun.
Oh, and would you say that this "real violence" is endemic to just the Democrats?-
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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Demonstrations can do virtual violence through implicit threat. That was the conclusion of judges looking at the abortion clinic protests of the 80's and it applies to some of the activities of groups like ACORN and the picketing of churches by gay activists in California. The lawsuit rage against Palin is violent in it's effect. It uses the club of legal technicality in ways for which the laws were not designed--to destroy the person through accusation rather than conviction. If I am stretching the point then so is the list of "tortures" of which our soldiers are acused. The attempted assasination of Palin by Democrats and so-called news casters is obvious. If you chose not to see it that's your business. And no, violence is not endemic only to the Democrats but a new and nastier element of which the party should be ashamed is gaining power.
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cleare9 months ago
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ed,
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palin would have to have character first, before it could be assassinated.
and furthermore, democrats don't go around shooting wolves from aircraft or advocating for unnecessary war or fomenting racial and social hatred which leads to violence.
conservatives are the ones stoning gays, participating in self-aggrandizing militias, hanging minorities and burning crosses.
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Ciera-Marie9 months ago
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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Campbell was wrong about mythology. Mythology is the sum of the literature that exists at the birth of your culture, that swirls around in your mind like vague childhood memories and influences you wheather it is true or false--either of which it may be. You may quote me.
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jakesguile9 months ago
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Very good Edward, you know what the study of mythology is! Jose, give him a caramel. Now please Eddy, this isn't your elementary school F-Oh-Knee Debate team, we're all adults here, please debate using proper debate tactics, not just red herrings. You see.. red herrings are something called a "Logical fallacy." Logical fallacies are things you learn in Junior Year in high school, sometimes earlier. High school is that place that your daddy pulled you out of in Freshman year after you admitted to the counselor he had been playing with your stiff place for ten years. For most people it's where we learned how to act like intelligent human beings rather than grunting morons. And Eddy.. a grunting moron is exactly what you chose to behave like when you sold your soul to the republican party!
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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Wow, you guys really got upset over that. I guess you're bitter over the things I've said.
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Well, you scored your point. I indeed went off topic. I will hencforward rely on "proper debate tactics" Do you recommend your example-- "a grunting moron...sold your soul to the republican party!" If proper debate tactics consist of insult and name-calling then you can't be beat. -
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DrMoon9 months ago
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I hate you democrats, you're nothing but liars and criminals and we listened to your lies for the past eight years and we're tired of watching you destroy this nation with this Communist you call president. It's time we started the war against you fools to get it over with.. Shoot a democrat and save the nation.
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CRYMTYPHON9 months ago
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HI DR. MOON!
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When people are shot, the camera doesn't go slow and the music speed up.
That's just TV.
When people are shot, - they scream a lot and everybody else screams.
It isn't like a political argument where victory lies in pointing out that the
other person is a total, complete fool,
- full of rage against themselves but acting out against others.
Also, - when you shoot at people someone always shoots back .
Be nice! -
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Natureboy9 months ago
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Wow, time for you to get out the cryin' towel, "Dr."
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For what its worth, I'm no democrat. I voted for Cynthia McKinney. If she were president you'd really be losing your mind about now.
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dunkirk9 months ago
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Ok Sarah you arent suppose to start posting this drivel for another two or three years. You put it out too early and people really see if for the gibberish it truly is,. Now go back to practicing foreign diplomacy, a few russian passenger jets with government officals will be flying over soon, start waving.
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Goppy9 months ago
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I just want to say - while it's always a bit un-nerving having a stalker such as lovemylibs - it does have side benefits.
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This member, who's original moniker was joeeddie, adopted a sock-puppet and moniker of lovemylibs to mimic the "Cracker-Barrel" stylings of Goppy.
This member has persisted in trying to nail me for every detail of every comment I've ever made.
If someone insults me in the most vile form, and I reply in kind - lovemylibs is always there with snarky comments assessing my behavior.
This is, this must, be considered Obsessive Compulsive.
But I never, ever, ... in my wildest dreams ... could have imagined that he would create his very own blog .... and name it after me.
http://goppychristianconservative.blogspot.com/200...
Like I say ... I'm flattered, lovemylibs-joeeddie.
But when you try to pass this off as me - well - that's a sign of Moral Vacancy. And of course, that's why you support the Modern Ideology that most aligns itself with Moral Vacancy.
The party that embraces Torture
The party that fights to keep children from getting access to health care
The party that fights for Welfare for the Wealthy
The party that fights to cut G.I.Bill benefits from soldiers - even as they ask more from our soldiers.
The party that outs undercover CIA agents as retribution
lovemylibs, I bear no grudge towards you. I actually understand you. You are being forced to contend with an allegiance to a political movement that you realize - in your heart of hearts - is Morally Vacant.
I'm sure you're a good person - and this is why you are so determined to twist things around to point the finger elsewhere - so as to deflect the pure putridity of thought that is necessary to truly support The Modern Republican Ideology.
Actually, I'm rooting for you.
As I say - I believe you are a good person and you will come around to the understanding that - as a good person - you can no longer tolerate an alignment with the Party of Torture.
... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ... ☆ ...
And while I'm somewhat flattered that you created the Goppy blog - please understand - what you are doing is duplicitous.
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lovemylibs9 months ago
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Goppy9 months ago
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How did I know that you would anticipate me claiming this isn't mine - since you created it?
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LOL!
LML - you continue to mine the depths of your duplicity!
Believe me, I am not happy about this. I wish you only the best. For whatever reason, you've targeted me as your Windmill.
I wish I could help you. But I can't.
But think about this - think about the reason you are enamored of my commentary. Doesn't that tell you that you are intrigued?
Maybe your heart is telling you to forego the Moral Vacancy of the Modern Right.
Again - I believe you are a good person. I believe you have good intentions. You've simply permitted pernicious people, and the Right Wing Dominated Media to warp your values.
Again - I'm rooting for you!
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lovemylibs9 months ago
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What speaks volumes is that you dispute who created the blog but you don't dispute the contents. It's pretty obvious this was your creation and it explains the depths you have gone to try to get people banned. It's a shame that Edinbug lost his fight with the other poster and got banned, isn't it?
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CRYMTYPHON9 months ago
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Hhussk9 months ago
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I'll take that one.
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The reason a person creates a blog that they deny being associated with is known as "associated wisdom".
In other words, he appears to agree, or have others agree with him by showing other sources.
In research and debate, we cite sources which prove our premise. The counter being made here is that Goppy is basically using himself as a source....a BIG no no.
I've seen it happen here from time to time.-
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Goppy9 months ago
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Yeah - you got it.
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I created a blog to ghost for Goppy - and I called it Goppy - Christian Conservative.
LOL!!
Believe me, when I create a blog - I'll let y'all know about it.
LOL!!
Man, I am actually laughing my a$s off! (And I didn't have much of one to start with!)
Too ... too ... funny.
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Thanks lovemylibs - you're alright.
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lovemylibs9 months ago
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If I didn't create it and Goppy didn't create it, the other possibility I had considered is that it was created by the same person who created this blog, since their structure and layout are very, very similar:
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http://indo6files.blogspot.com/
But sometimes I get you two confused because you are both so clever in your writing and use of html tricks.
Another, as yet unstated possibility, is rooted in the fact that today is April 1st and fun is in the air.-
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CRYMTYPHON9 months ago
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No.
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I made the blog about Ind06;
That was fun and I shared it with everyone.
There is no secret about it
Are you trying to confuse things?
If someone wrote something in Goppy's name,
that was creepy and dishonest;
don't make a joke of it.-
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lovemylibs9 months ago
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Why are you convinced that someone wrote something in Goppy's name? I am not convinced of that because the style of the writing is the same as what we see here every day.
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As far as the ind06 post, I was just having fun there. I liked that thread. I didn't mean to offend you.
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Goppy9 months ago
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EDWARDIII glibly mentioned that "Children in this country have better health care than in other systems."
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He doesn't mention that 20,000 Americans die each year because they cannot get health insurance.
This is one of the surest signs of just how Morally Vacant the American Right has become. They can look at 20,000 dead people and glibly say: "Don't ask for the latest cancer drug in England. Don't hope a specialist will see you soon in Canada."
Disected, what this says is - "We on the right, are happily willing to sacrifice 20,000 dead Americans so as to improve the quality of cancer medication."
This is fundamental Moral Vacancy.
Anyone who is a patriotic and loves our nation should be outraged.
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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I'm reminded of the woman described by Hillary Clinton who was turned away from a hospital while in labor and died later. It was very sad. It was also a fabrication. The woman she was speaking of had insurance and received the care she came for. Details are in Liberty and Tyranny by Mark Levin. Go ahead and despise Mark Levin, but it's a fact. If what you say is true it shouldn't have been hard for Clinton to find a better case study.
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Here's a reference to a very reasonable analysis of Canada's system
www.theadvocates.org/freeman/8903lemi.html
Part of the success of Canada's system comes from the fact they can come to the U.S. when it doesn't work. If you want to talk about compromise-- if you don't come here only to rage against those who disagree with you-- why not consider nationalizing something clear and simple first, like yearly dental cleaning. See how it goes. Conservatives would object, but many would put up with it, especially if it excluded illegal aliens. The massive dislocations, financial burden and probability of failure involved in creating a single-payer system though-- Anyone who is patriotic and loves our nation should be outraged at the thought of such a risk.
If this is off-topic, it started as a response to you about 25 or 30 comments back.-
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willottica9 months ago
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Edward, what you have linked to is not an analysis, but a critique. The two things are very different. An analysis looks at the pros and the cons of the topic, in order to reach a conclusion. This particular author has already decided that socialized medicine is bad, and therefore only presents arguments against. Some of them questionable:
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It costs $1,200 per year in taxes for each Quebec citizen to have access to the public health system. This means that the average two-child family pays close to $5,000 per year in public health insurance. This is much more expensive than the most comprehensive private health insurance plan.
1200 per year in taxes... isn't that $100 per month? How many Americans have access to health insurance that costs only $100 per month? Much less comprehensive insurance at that price? -
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scott42619 months ago
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Unbelieveable! Al Franken won. Norm Colman lost. Seat the senator already.
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http://www.examiner.com/x-753-South-St-Paul-Examin...
Good God! Make it stop! -
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Hhussk9 months ago
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And the moral of this story is...
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...when a liberal is losing, the voters are being disenfranchised and we need a recount, but when the liberal is winning, the voters have been heard and this election is over....no need to exercise your rights.
It was perfectly legal when Franken argued in court to have the votes that were stuffed and suddenly "found" in the trunk of a car counted, but now that Coleman wants to equally argue that 400 previously uncounted votes be counted.....
...well, that's liberal politics. -
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bocavert9 months ago
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A whole bunch of people in my opinion should be charged with Teason and or Sedition, Let's start with Limbaugh and Colemam. They seem to want to conceal the real problems that started in "1984". Big Brother Government being used to the advantage of a few wealthy scions.
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Hhussk9 months ago
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Well done. You, Mao Tse-Tung, Stalin, and Saddam Hussein agree with the same policies. That if someone openly disagrees with the ruling power, they should be charged with "Teason" (Treason) and/or Sedition.
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My friends...it's another liberal! -
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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I remember when it was a point of pride among liberals to see multiple sides to an issue. Now the debate has turned into a simple attempt to turn the country into a one-party system. The intelectual roots of the party used to be Willson and Truman. Now it's Marx, Wright and Saul Alinsky.
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skyynyte9 months ago
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Yep, sore losers.
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Republicans win, they cry that Dems are sore losers and unamerican.
Republican lose, they cry the Dems stole the elections, demand WW3, try everything they can to obstruct, even talk about revolution. Texas president Chuck Norris anyone? And Dem's are still unamerican.
What's wrong with this picture?
It's OK to steal money from the hard working. But go after CEO salaries, oh we can't change those contracts.
The only thing left to cling on to is Socialism. Well at least the word, what's actually happening is anything but. Repub's can't allow their idea of socialism in this country! Unless it has to do with their core values; marriage, sex, abortion, or where the dollar goes itself.
All in all the Republicans are just ****** that there is a smart black man in the white office. I work with you, I know it's true. -
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NoWayMan9 months ago
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you can tell a lot about the true nature of a person or group by how well they handle losing.
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Coleman, Bachman, Palin and the rest of the GOP have shown us quite a bit about their true natures, and the nature of the party they belong to, since the election.
and its all very very ugly.-
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EDWARDIII9 months ago
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Talk about ugly-- the attacks on Palin have been outrageous. Clearly the Democrats fear her and want to cover the inferiority they feel by using ridicule and viciousness, by trying to bank-rupt her through accusation when they know they have no real case. John Kennedy would be embarased by the low tactics his party has come to depend on.
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azuredaze9 months ago
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Only a matter of time until Obama steps in and demands the biggest crook of the two be seated immediately, just like he did with Burris and Geithner. Obama only wants thugs working around him so he can come out smelling like a rose.
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jordan119 months ago
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Committee (NRSC), is now threatening "World War III" if the Dems try to seat Franken before a U.S. Supreme Court appeal is completed, or even a new federal suit that could be filed by Coleman in U.S. District Court if he chooses...even if those additional judicial processes could take "years"...>>>>>
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Threatening WW111? What's he going to do? Climb into a tank & roam through the streets? Grow up, Norm Coleman. You look like a petulant child making ridiculous threats, & it's not attractive for those watching you. -
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