"We the People" to "King of the World": "YOU'RE FIRED!" »
Posted By jovial 7 months, 4 weeks ago in NewsNothing like it has ever happened. The President of the United States, the elected representative of the people, has just told the head of General Motors -- a company that's spent more years at #1 on the Fortune 500 list than anyone else -- "You're fired!"
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jovial
Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...
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jovial7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Michael Moore speaks out in this letter about the recent GM CEO layoff. There seemed to be a big hoopla that the President was overstepping his bounds, but how many rank and file GM workers were laid off during this CEO's tenure. Thousands, that's right thousands. No politicians were all up in arms about that. No blogs calling Wagner a tyrant or a bad person. It was just called doing "business". Well guess what, Mr. President tell all the critics out there, "It's just business."
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Beau78907 months, 4 weeks ago
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I just don't understand the hoopla.
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When you accept an offer of someone else's money, you play by their rules. It's just like me using a credit card--I accept their terms, which include the fact that they may change their terms at any time.
What part of this concept don't people understand? -
prophyporcritesComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned3 Replies
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Albmore7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Mike Moore is a idiot in my eyes and I will tell you why. Mike's first works in Flint Michigan is to be praised. I really stood behind him then, BUT´when I was stationed in Germany and saw Mike come there and talk against OUR nation in amother land, earning good money for his speech, I saw it was no more about America it was about MIKE!
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We are a land , and in my eyes one big family. We fight among us. Thats Ok. Every family does, BUT we solve OUR problems INSIDE OUR family!!! Mike has tried to bring his message with people who are not and even to those who dont even like us. Mike is about Mike. Not about America!
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Newperson7 months, 4 weeks ago
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sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned14 Replies
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hyperbola7 months, 4 weeks ago
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In the world of the financial and military "masters of the universe", the president of GM is a puny little mote. The game is now much bigger. For all his promises of "change" Obama is serving the masters.
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Financing the US Military Empire: Does US Face G20 Mutiny?
I am travelling in Europe for three weeks to discuss the global financial crisis with government officials, politicians and labor leaders. What is most remarkable is how differently the financial problem is perceived over here. It's like being in another economic universe, not just another continent.
The U.S. media are silent about the most important topic policy makers are discussing here (and I suspect in Asia too): how to protect their countries from three inter-related dynamics:
(1) the surplus dollars pouring into the rest of the world for yet further financial speculation and corporate takeovers;
(2) the fact that central banks are obliged to recycle these dollar inflows to buy U.S. Treasury bonds to finance the federal U.S. budget deficit; and most important (but most suppressed in the U.S. media,
(3) the military character of the U.S. payments deficit and the domestic federal budget deficit.
Strange as it may seem – and irrational as it would be in a more logical system of world diplomacy – the “dollar glut” is what finances America’s global military build-up. It forces foreign central banks to bear the costs of America’s expanding military empire – effective “taxation without representation.” Keeping international reserves in “dollars” means recycling their dollar inflows to buy U.S. Treasury bills – U.S. government debt issued largely to finance the military.
...Here in Europe there is a clear awareness that the U.S. payments deficit is much larger than just the trade deficit.... the U.S. payments deficit stems from military spending. The problem is not only the war in Iraq, now being extended to Afghanistan and Pakistan. It is the expensive build-up of U.S. military bases in Asian, European, post-Soviet and Third World countries.
The military overhead is much like a debt overhead, extracting revenue from the economy. In this case it is to pay the military-industrial complex, not merely Wall Street banks and other financial institutions. The domestic federal budget deficit does not stem only from “priming the pump” to give away enormous sums to create a new financial oligarchy. It contains an enormous and rapidly growing military component.... The U.S. media somehow neglect to mention that the U.S. government is spending hundreds of billions of dollars abroad – not only in the Near East for direct combat, but to build enormous military bases to encircle the rest of the world, to install radar systems, guided missile systems and other forms of military coercion, including the “color revolutions” that have been funded – and are still being funded – all around the former Soviet Union.-
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hyperbola7 months, 4 weeks ago
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...So the ultimate question turns out to be what countries can do to counter this financial attack.... It is not simply a problem of “regulation” or “control of speculative capital movements.” The question is how nations can act as real nations, in their own interest rather than being roped into serving whatever the American government decides is in America’s interest.
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...The implication today is that the only way a nation can block capital movements is to withdraw from the IMF, the World Bank and the World Trade Organization (WTO). For the first time since the 1950s this looks like a real possibility, thanks to worldwide awareness of how the U.S. economy is glutting the global economy with surplus “paper” dollars – and U.S. intransigence at stopping its free ride. From the U.S. vantage point, this is nothing less than an attempt to curtail its international military program.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/03/31/financin... -
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jovial7 months, 4 weeks ago
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The question then becomes, How can a world superpower retreat behind it's borders and still remain a world superpower? The U.S. military has been a major diplomatic tool to coerce countries to fall in line. Though it may not be 100% effective, it has always shown to give results, even if the results aren't what was orignally intended or sold to the American people. So the troops are starting to withdraw from Iraq, but they will not totally disappear. They can't. We have to maintain a foothold in that area for our own long term energy interests. Pepe Escobar speaks about this in this other post that I posted today. According to him it's not a war on terror anymore, it's a war for energy. A war for energy in a world where wars will be fought for energy in the present and the future.
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/01/the-secr... -
capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user3 Replies
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epiphannyy7 months, 4 weeks ago
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He could have fought it and let the company fail with him at the helm.
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Bottom line, they want the government to bail them out because the choices he (and other top GM officials) have made over the years created a negative profit margin. If it were any other company, he'd have lost his job a long time ago. If he weren't worthy of being fired, he wouldn't be needing a government bailout.
Experts have been advising the auto industry to update their industry for years - to start producing the kinds of fuel efficient cars that people were buying from Toyota and Honda - but they refused. They dug in their heels and instead produced even bigger cars (Hummers, for example) and now they are so far in the hole that the only way they can survive is for the government to pay for it. It's insane. They did this to themselves. The only reason I even support a government bailout is because of the tens of thousands of rank and file workers across the country who are dependent upon GM's survival. Otherwise, I would advocate to let them go under. They (GM top officials) created this mess....they should be the ones to suffer the consequences for it. -
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prophyporcritesComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned3 Replies
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Klarissa7 months, 4 weeks ago
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"Yours,
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Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
MichaelMoore.com
(Go State!)
P.S. Please know that it has not been lost on any of us from the Rust Belt how our corporate bigwigs were treated (remember, the auto companies wanted a loan, not a handout) compared to how the titans of Wall Street got trillions of free cash, lunch at the White House and a photo op with the Prez.
Trust me, we get it. And, if there is a God in heaven, the thieves of Wall Street will soon pay.
Also... the sight of our president having to promise that he would back every GM warranty and give consumers a bonus if they trade in their old Grand Am for a hybrid, was alternately sad, hilarious, and just plain weird.
This is what it's come to: the Commander in Chief of the Free World is now Mr. Goodwrench. Jeesh. " -
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cleare7 months, 4 weeks ago
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i just glad the american people are finally getting it that rich, corporate executives are NOT on their side.
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corporate america is not on their side.
rich people didn't get rich by working harder and smarter, they cheated more.
we do not live in a meritocracy.-
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Hhussk7 months, 4 weeks ago
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rich people didn't get rich by working harder and smarter, they cheated more.
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Idiotic statement. Just wait. When rich people see their profits being stolen, there will be less jobs.
Less than a year ago, the enemy were terrorists. Today, our rich people. Who would have thought that so many people - people who also want the American Dream - could be manipulated into hating you based on your success. -
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned3 Replies
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4thchance7 months, 4 weeks ago
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"We the People" to "King of the World": "YOU'RE FIRED!"
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Nothing like it has ever happened. The President of the United States, the elected representative of the people, has just told the head of General Motors..."
The reason nothing like this has ever happened before is because we have never had a SOCIALISTIC, POWER HUNGRY, MONEY SPENDING FOOL like Obama before!
If Mr. Bush would have done what the great Obummer is doing right now, the left would be going totally insane over it. I guarantee, the media would make this their FRONT PAGE NEWS STORY for at least a month or more. The criticism of Bush would running wild over this. So, go ahead and try to tell us the Democrats are not hypocrites, go ahead and try to convince us that the Media isn't totally slanted to the left and extremely bias. JUST TRY, NO ONE WILL BELEIVE THAT CRAP ANY LONGER. People are finally starting to pay attention now, FINALLY they are taking a look at what they elected to power, and many are seeing that it's UGLY!!!! Look out Fidel, and Chavez, Obummer is bringing America to join you!
can we say REVOLUTION...we may have to say it soon!-
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antibrainwasher7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Listen to the minion of Druggy Limpboy regurgitate his talking points.
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You got them all in there, there's socialism, revolution, and of course, as usual, you take no responsibility for the massive pile of crap your facist villiage idiot regime left the current elected officials to clean up.
Witness the Joe the Plumber level stupidest 10% on the planet, syncophant for the rich, .....of course, you would suffer when a 20 million dollar a year executive gets crapcanned. You worship the rich.
Hup two three four, who do cons bend over for? the rich, the casino capatilist, the unregulated greedmongers, the repubs. -
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4thchance7 months, 4 weeks ago
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President Obummer is now 100% responsible for anything and everything that may or could go wrong with GM or Chrysler. Obummer is now the NEW CEO of those two companies.
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Obummer is promising he will back those two companies auto warrantees too.
If you have a GM or Chrysler car, if it's in need of repair, just call the White House @ the (Federal automobile warrantee department) Oh, there is no such thing as (Federal automobile warrantee department)?
So you will need to line up, the feds will get to you after they get through about 10 years of red tape. By then your warrantee will be long ago expired! That's exactly why Obummer had no problem promising to back the warrantee's! -
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calitennflo7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Some Judicial system, Hugh? Might be good if it were practiced at the Capitol, but that's about all the chance for success it could get. Nothing they do there has been a success, they have always sacrificed for some reason. I am not into standing this line...waiting again for a lottery number 20, to suddenly win! They picked me! All the branches were motioning their hands, as come here. I joined the US Navy instead, during this illegally drafted session of the Nixon administration. I chose to enlist with the help of our family lawyer, who wrote a contract so the military could be held accountable...in their handling of my affairs.
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Try to do this today...right! lol Suddenly we see these hidden named bussiness contracts, that break, break, the due process. And like some divorce announcments, are published in two paged newspapers...hidden somewhere in the shelves of the library, where I am sure the majority read.
Truth will prevail, always has even when subjected by the US government from appearing in the history books. I am waiting for the History Channel's update, aren't you? Showing everything they do.I know just the same...they do nothing...or we would not be falling even lower among others in longivity, education, economic status, etc. We were 10th. -
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Poulenc7 months, 4 weeks ago
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So, 4thchance, would you like to outline--or at least suggest--what you would do to stem economic hemorrhaging; right the wrongs caused by insufficient oversight/control of free market "stewards"; prevent mass job losses; get Detroit back on its feet...etc., etc., etc.?
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I'm all ears.-
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Hhussk7 months, 4 weeks ago
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I'll take that question.
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Let the companies that are going bankrupt, go bankrupt.
Streamline and simplify the tax code.
Lower taxes across the board, including capital gains.
Cut the federal budget.
Enforce immigration policies.
Remove China from "favorable nation" trade status.
Instead of expanding the federal government, reduce it.
Instead of increased spending in government, give more money back to taxpayers who earn it. Nothing will stimulate the economy more than a person who knows he is getting more of his own money. Nothing will stimulate a person to work harder when he knows he can make more.
Stay out of health care. Stay out of health care. Stay out of health care. If government would have stayed out of health care to begin with, we would not have 3rd party health care payers and this would have never happened.
...but government had to get involved. -
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned8 Replies
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4thchance7 months, 4 weeks ago
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First and foremost, I would get rid of about 60% of the government all together.
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I'm guessing that 60% is a waste and we could get by far better with out it. It needs massively streamed lined.
Second up, I would let the car companies go bankrupt. Ford could save their own butts by letting the new Ford Fiesta be sold here in the USA. Did you know ford makes a new car called the Fiesta that gets over 65 MPG, it sells for about $18,000. (THERE'S NO NEED FOR EXPENSIVE HYBRID CARS at all.) But they will not allow the Fiesta to be sold in the USA. They say it doesn't meet our emission standards. Well, that's funny, because in the UK the Fiesta is not taxed on emissions because it runs so efficient and clean. In the UK, cars are taxed on the amount of emissions they produce. The more emissions a car spews the more tax people have to pay to on that car. The Fiesta is tax free in the UK, because it runs so efficient and clean. So Ford is LYING about this car...why, who freakin knows why?????? You see, it's stuff like this that's messing up our country. If ford would sell the Fiesta in the USA it could very well save their a$$es from bankruptcy, but politics are standing in their way. The point I'm making is that our country has been turned upside down is very seriously broken. I would fix that problem buy going after and getting rid of all who are making a huge mess of everything. I would probably be assassinated for the way I would go about it, but at least I would try!
Oh, and Volkswagen makes a car called the Lupo, it gets 100+ MPG, and we can't have that car either.....OUR SYSTEM IS BROKEN AND NEEDS FIXED! I could go on and on and on...But why, you will just call me a liar anyway. -
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Poulenc7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Re Hhuusk, above: ...all of which threaten--to the extent that they're at all relevant--removing (if only be neglect) money from the system when spending it to encourage spending is of the essence.
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I mean, surely you can't believe, Hhuusk, that "nothing will stimulate a person to work harder when he knows he can make more" is in any way prescriptive when the given is a deeply depressed economy--one in which opportunity evaporates as each day passes.
You're suggestions exist in a theoretical vacuum. They're a grab bag of conserv talking points of irrelevance to the world of now.-
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beavith17 months, 4 weeks ago
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not at all. Hussk is right. mostly. i don't see China as a problem, worse they are becoming a whipping boy for our own internal problems, but i digress.
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investment is strangled by a non functioning banking system. without investment, you don't make jobs. without jobs, demand drops.
encouraging spending is not the same as giving people other peoples' money.
most of the ideas he bought up ARE the solution.
oh yeah... and fix the banking system. Geithner is kidding himself. -
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Hhussk7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Poulenc, answer these two questions:
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1. Will you work harder if you think you can make more money?
2. You're a doctor and make $300/weekly no matter how many patients you see and no matter the quality of your work. Will you work harder?
My suggestions are proven to have worked. It's classified as "incentives" in economics. The reason the communist "planned economy" did not work is the very reason you're refusing to acknowledge...that people do not work hard or provide quality when there is no incentive.
This is why capitalism > socialism > communism.
This is what liberals refuse to acknowledge.
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calitennflo7 months, 4 weeks ago
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http://www.stock-market-crash.net/tulip-mania.htm
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Tulip Bulb Mania
Could a mere tulip bulb be worth $76,000? It is if people are willing to pay for it! It may sound preposterous, but this is exactly what happened in Holland in the 1630’s.
I found this as an example. I to solve all these problems we witness would remove the one thing that distorts everyone's view, as today for some reason...the currency is required...for all within these borders, dispite that truth, it's removal is the correct procedure, it would be the correct moral manner, order, and approval for all concerned.
I will never get lost in this government's, or corporation's dealing, with anything historically proven as much as a failure.
It has been standard, since 1791, that we improve, correct, and revise government. The same standards apply to corporation and all of us.
I enjoy being self governing, and am not far off at all from the truthful reality that what I suggested is very possible, a necessity due to the current conditions that exist all around the world. It too would free all of us, our sisters and mothers. It would stop abrdgement of the vote,on account of sex...it would stop the abridgement of the vote on account of race, religion, color or creed. It is fitting to operate, and manage in a pure logic way...ahnd it's not our fault...I petitioned government, on three occasions, and followed those standards that were made since 1791. This government is the one to blame, as I made some provisions in the 3rd petition myself, for its requests to be known as a solemn prayer...a petition that would reiterate over again forever.
I did this June 15th 2006...and look today...I used the Webster as the source for grammer and definition. I carefully identified each word with a list...I made arguements for the actions of this redress of grievance...and mailed it, confirmed it's delivery.
Just as the declaratiomn of 1776 stated, nature dictates what we shall follow here upon Earth...and I expect to see just what I petitioned friends...they have no choice. -
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Poulenc7 months, 4 weeks ago
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Hhuusk, in truth, there are many variables in re the "working harder" issue.
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In my personal experience there's a kind of tipping point--as that the correct phrase?--after which no correlation exists between income and effort.
I have a doctor who has achieved a degree of success. He no longer works harder but works less because he no longer has to to generate the income he's already attained. He's become--to use an old-fashioned term--lazy, which hardly helps his patients who have a right to top-notch care.
You're assumption that a doctor on a fixed income will slack-off, or not attempt to do all the s/he could professionally, is, for one thing, cynical.
Perhaps the more accurate question is, will people want to become doctors if they know that their incomes can only reach a certain monetary ceiling?
Perhaps such a system would, in fact, sift out the venal and less dedicated in favor of those who actually wish to explore their craft and--dare I say it?--help others.-
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DarkWizard7 months, 4 weeks ago
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While Chief Executive Rick Wagoner's resignation is warranted, and others should follow suit, I am more concerned about the "free pass" given to the financial sector so far. It is obvious to me that the Goldman-Sachs ties to Geithner and Bernanke have biased our government in who they favor and who gets slammed. I just don't see the equality in regards to the absorbent and disparate amounts of money being thrown around to the scale and scope of potential economic damage.
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DarkWizard7 months, 4 weeks ago
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I see our furry neocon friends are attempting to obfuscate and ruminate on issues that need intellectual and ethical discourse. The espousing of ideologues whose time has passed as if they are tried and true methodologies is as laughable calling one's self Christian and republican at the same time!
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World War III has started and it is a war of American intellectualism and true morality against those who are the real "enemy combatants" of Democracy and the American way. Yes, those claiming to be the "moral majority" are anything but! The "plank in your eye" is obscuring your view!-
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4thchance7 months, 4 weeks ago
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There is no world war III, but we will probably be seeing a revolution and perhaps that will be followed by a civil war soon in our country. I say the writing is on the wall.
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You talk about the "American way" Well what's going on right now with this new administration is quickly pulling away from the American way. The American way, is what our founding fathers laid out for us about 200+ years ago. Obama is turning all that up side down. You have no clue.
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coolslow7 months, 3 weeks ago
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A lot of people on this site have demonstrated patterns that are completely foreign to to what has been the prevailing thinking in the United States since its inception.
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1) They think Obama didn't fire the GM CEO, but that it is right that he did. Any President has no right to act for the owners or shareholders of a public held or private company.
2)If you take government money, you are owned by the government. Well, you better give up student financial aid, government health care, social security, unemployment checks, food stamps, ag subsidies, and your nifty little $400 promised welfare checks, because it is government money and maybe they will start telling you what you can and can't do with it. Its their money, same principle, Obama's the boss.
3) Professional, business, or financial success is a result of cheating, and achievers are filthy, greedy bastards who sit on their assess and have no right to be successful, but should pay the way for everyone. Class envy? When did that become the American way? Don't worry about the success of the other guy, make your own way. Our social contract only promises life, liberty and the pursuit... It does not promise success. It is not an habitual American thought pattern to denigrate success.
4) US global economic leadership, the American way of life, and capitalism are over. Its a recession. It is not the greatest crisis in the history of the union. Don't make it one. Help those in trouble. There is still plenty of capital, brains, innovation and drive in America. Don't bet against America, you will lose in the long run.
5) Wallowing is self-pity, self-hatred, and reveling in every mistake or bad thing that the country has been involved in. In a long life, everyone does some things wrong. In a long, powerful life lived under a microscope there are going to be plenty of blemishes. The US is the same. Don't tear down, build up the positive.
6)The country is being run for the elites, the middle class is disappearing. All of our spendng and national debate is about the 5% of mortgage holders in trouble, the 8% unemployed. The purchasing power of the middle class is unparalled in history in terms of how many hours of labor it takes to buy a car, refrigator, tv, or loaf of bread. A self-made black man is President! And before him a poor hillbilly from Arkansas. And the fifth quintile of the income earners pays 80% of the taxes.
Stop whining. If you want it, go get it. You aren't entitled to a thing except your freedoms. If you don't want it, don't begrudge those who do.-
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jovial7 months, 3 weeks ago
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1) yeah he did it and so. He's the President!
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2) if you take government assistance you bet you are going to use it by government rules. No buying Cadillacs with foodstamps. (although half of you conservative nuts believe that anyway!)
3) Of course not all businessman are cheaters, Just like all welfare recipients aren't cheaters either, but there are those that slip through the cracks. The problem is the welfare cheater gets a few thousand dollars of the taxpayer money, while the businessman gets a few million or billions worth.
4) on that we can agree, but we have a few problems on the means of doing it.
5)It's not self pity it's a discussion to find out how we can fix this mess we are currently in. At the same time we can't make this a everyman for himself. We have to work together and that means we even have to use the tool of government. We can expect the Titanic to right it self on it's own after the stern is the only thing sticking out of the water. -
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bocavert7 months, 3 weeks ago
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I never was a fan of Michael Moore, but his open letter struck a chord, something that I have thought about since being drsfted and sent to an infantry unit in Vietnam, That our Government has the mind set that we as individuals are expendable. The reference to the National Archives was most impressive, for in my belief I was denied a priveledge, or the "Right to the Pursuit of Happiness!"
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sarafinayvette7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Regardless of whether or not anyone thinks Wagner deserved it, the White House violated the Constitution again and that is the biggest threat to everyone in America. congress violated the Constitution as well by going after AIG bonuses. And it doesn't matter right now whether either deserved what they got.
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OUr rights are being tramped on by the government and that is where every American needs to focus their attention. The Auto makers did not ask to be handed money they asked for a loan. A loan that had a lot more chance of being repaid than any of the money AIG took. But it is unimportant. What they took was money, money can be replaced...if we lose Liberty we lose everything. That is what should be unacceptable to every single thinking person in this country.-
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