Comments for Republicans Blocking Obama Justice Nominee To Protect Bush From Prosecution »
Posted By jovial 8 months, 2 weeks ago in NewsThe judicial system of Spain is poised to prosecute six Bush administration officials. Spain is one of the 184 countries that signed the 1984 treaty against torture.
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jovial8 months, 2 weeks ago
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djn3nunez38 months, 2 weeks ago
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Awe, and just think a few short years ago George Bush, Tony Blair and the Spanish prime minister Jose Maria Aznar were all having a threesome together in Portugal.
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But then there's this:
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/26/bush-aznar-tal...
Ah the Bush years, they just keep on giving..........
Oh, btw Spain has every right to charge these guys. -
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kobzikov8 months, 2 weeks ago
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I believe Nazi leadership already tried to use the argument against US and Allied forces during Nuremberg trials insisting that Americans had no right to charge them, because of their past misdeeds, such as genocide of Native Americans for instance. Do you need a reminder of how well it worked out for the Nazis?
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By the way, if that was a legitimate argument then neither US, nor most other nations would have a right to prosecute anyone, because of their bloody past. -
hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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hyperbola8 months, 2 weeks ago
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This trend has been building up for some time in many countries, not just Spain. What is new is that it is now being applied to the western "masters of the universe". Now we will have to decide if criminals indicted for crimes against humanity (e.g. Rumsfeld) will be given "protection" in America.
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Fake Faith and Epic Crimes
These are extraordinary times. With the United States and Britain on the verge of bankruptcy and committing to an endless colonial war, pressure is building for their crimes to be prosecuted at a tribunal similar to that which tried the Nazis at Nuremberg. This defined rapacious invasion as "the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole." International law would be mere farce, said the chief US chief prosecutor at Nuremberg, Supreme Court justice Robert Jackson, "if, in future, we do not apply its principles to ourselves."
That is now happening. Spain, Germany, Belgium, France and Britain have long had "universal jurisdiction" statutes, which allow their national courts to pursue and prosecute prima facie war criminals. What has changed is an unspoken rule never to use international law against "ourselves," or "our" allies or clients....
.... Bush’s former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who demanded an invasion of Iraq in 2001 and personally approved torture techniques in Iraq and at Guantanamo Bay, no longer travels. Rumsfeld has twice been indicted for war crimes in Germany. On 26 January, the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, Manfred Nowak, said, "We have clear evidence that Mr. Rumsfeld knew what he was doing but nevertheless he ordered torture."
The Spanish high court is currently investigating a former Israeli defence minister and six other top Israeli officials for their role in the killing of civilians, mostly children, in Gaza. Henry Kissinger, who was largely responsible for bombing to death 600,000 peasants in Cambodia in 1969-73, is wanted for questioning in France, Chile and Argentina. Yet, on 8 February, as if demonstrating the continuity of American power, President Barack Obama’s national security adviser, James Jones, said, "I take my daily orders from Dr. Kissinger."-
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hyperbola8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Like them, Tony Blair may soon be a fugitive. The International Criminal Court, to which Britain is a signatory, has received a record number of petitions related to Blair’s wars. .... Protected by the fake sinecure of Middle East Envoy for the Quartet (the US, EU, UN and Russia), Blair operates largely from a small fortress in the American Colony Hotel in Jerusalem, where he is an apologist for the US in the Middle East and Israel, a difficult task following the bloodbath in Gaza. To assist his mortgages, he recently received an Israeli "peace prize" worth a million dollars. ....
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...Today, the unreported "good news" is that a worldwide movement is challenging the once sacrosanct notion that imperial politicians can destroy countless lives in the cause of an ancient piracy, often at remove in distance and culture, and retain their respectability and immunity from justice.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/02/fake-fai...
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hyperbola8 months, 2 weeks ago
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However, we should NOT forget that the Obama administration is continuing many of the same kinds of crimes.
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Obama's Blackwater? Chicago Mercenary Firm Gets Millions for Private "Security" in Israel and Iraq
Federal records obtained by AlterNet reveal a multi-million dollar contract for a private U.S. paramilitary force operating out of Jerusalem. ...
...Beginning May 7th, Triple Canopy will officially take over Xe/Blackwater's mega-contract with the U.S. State Department for guarding occupation officials in Iraq. It's sure to be a lucrative deal: Obama's Iraq plan will inevitably rely on an increased use of private contractors, including an army of mercenaries to protect his surge of diplomats operating out of the monstrous U.S. embassy in Baghdad....
...Like Blackwater, Triple Canopy has had its share of bloody incidents, among them allegations that operatives have gone on missions where they shot at civilian vehicles, including one after a briefing where a team leader cocked his M-4 and said to his men, "I want to kill somebody today. ... Because I'm going on vacation tomorrow."...
...Also like Blackwater, Triple Canopy has hired mercenaries from countries with atrocious human rights records and histories of violent counter-insurgencies. Among them: Peru, Chile, Colombia and El Salvador. In fact, in Iraq, Triple Canopy hired far more "Third Country Nationals" than Blackwater and DynCorp and has used more TCNs than US citizens or Iraqis. As I reported in my book, Triple Canopy used the same Chilean recruiter (who served in Augusto Pinochet's military) Blackwater used when it hired Chilean forces, including some "seasoned veterans" of the Pinochet era. In El Salvador, the company reportedly used "a U.S.-trained former paratrooper and officer of the Salvadoran special forces during the country's civil war" where the U.S. backed a brutal right wing dictatorship in a war that took the lives of some 75,000 Salvadorans. A Triple Canopy spokesperson reportedly said of the Salvadorans, "They've got the right background for the type of work we are doing.-
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hyperbola8 months, 2 weeks ago
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The use of mercenaries by Hillary Clinton's State Department stands in stark contrast to her co-sponsorship as a Senator of a bill last year that sought to ban the use of such companies in U.S. war zones, specifically Iraq. Last February Clinton said, "The time to show these contractors the door is long past due." Now, Clinton will be relying on these hired guns for protecting her and her staff in various countries....
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...It's hardly a surprise that Obama is continuing the use of mercenaries in Iraq and beyond (Triple Canopy itself maintains offices in Abu Dhabi, Nigeria, Peru, Jordan and Uganda); nevertheless, members of Congress -- whose actions when Bush deployed these private armies were too little, too late -- have a responsibility to investigate his use of companies whose profits are intimately linked to a continuation of war. Moreover, Obama's choice of this particular company should be investigated, both by the House and Senate, before May 7th when Obama's mercenaries become the official paramilitary force in Iraq. As for Triple Canopy's role in Israel, Obama's administration should explain exactly what these forces are doing on the U.S. government payroll.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/02/obama39s...
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hyperbola8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Indeed, Obama's "af/pak campaign" could be right out of the bushie / zioncon playbook.
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Obama and Terror as a Tool of Empire
Let's say you were a dedicated imperial militarist who believed that your country's security, prestige and financial interests could best be served by war and the ever-present threat of war. Let's say you had some really hot and juicy operations going on, endless deadly conflicts that were pouring hundreds of billions of dollars into your war machine and entrenching national policy even more deeply in the militarist philosophy – the machtpolitik – that you believe in.
But there's a problem. The general public – the cow-like herd out there that doesn't understand grand strategy the way you and your fellow elites do – is growing weary, and wary, of your Long War. The national treasury is bankrupt, the national infrastructure is rotting, the nation's communities are dying; millions of people are out of work, losing their homes, losing their dreams, spiraling down into want, privation and despair. Yet you have big plans to escalate the war, expand your war machine, and maintain the global dominance that you believe is the right and natural role for your special nation – and its elites. What to do? How to galvanize the truculent, self-absorbed herd into enthusiastically supporting your vital agenda once more?
Well, here's one purely hypothetical approach you might try. You goad and provoke violent extremist groups into retaliating against your attacks, your civilian-slaughtering invasions and incursions into their territory. Being unable to confront directly your war machine – the largest, most advanced military force in the history of the world, sustained by a tsunami of public money that each year surpasses the military spending of the rest of the world – they naturally respond with "asymmetrical" operations. At first, these are directed at nearby targets: your supply lines, the forces of your local proxies and allies, and other chaos-inducing depredations in the groups' own regions, designed to foul the lines of your control and drive you out. Just as naturally, you use these attacks to justify an even greater military presence in their regions. The cycle inevitably, inexorably ratchets upwards and outwards, until at last the extremists strike at your homeland – either with your connivance, or your covert acquiescence, or, in any event, with your foreknowledge that such an attack was sure to come. This is the moment you have waited for; this is exactly what you wanted. Now you can whip the herd back into a martial frenzy, keep the Long War going, and push aside the rabble's petty, small-minded desires for a peaceful, prosperous life at home, minding their own business.-
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hyperbola8 months, 2 weeks ago
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One never knows exactly what goes on behind the imperial drapery in the Potomac palaces, of course; ordinary American citizens were long ago turned into Kremlinologists of their own government, trying to discern -- through ceremonial signs, backstairs gossip, and slight deviations in ritualized rhetoric -- just what their masters are really up to....
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...We can say this as an established fact: It is the policy of the United States government to provoke violent extremist groups into action. Once they are in play, their responses can then be used in whatever way the government that provoked them sees fit. And we also know that these provocations are being used, as a matter of deliberate policy, to rouse violent groups on the "Af-Pak" front to launch terrorist attacks. ...
... And remarkably, this new, open threat to bring terror to the American heartland comes just days after Barack Obama announced his vaunted surge in the Af-Pak War, citing – what else? – the need to protect the United States from terrorists based in Afghanistan and Pakistan as his chief reason for escalating and expanding the conflict. Yet another astonishing coincidence to justify the militarist agenda, which needs a constant supply of PR-plausible villains and hyped-up, nation-rattling threats like a junkie needs smack.
... When the Obama Administration speaks of "continuity" in American foreign policy, this is an integral part of what they are talking about. So look to see much more on TTP and the demon de jure, Baitullah Mehsud, as the bipartisan Long War grinds on and on, with its ever-present need for "catalyzing" – and terrorizing – the American people into support for the militarist project.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/01/obama-an...
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Spadecaller8 months, 2 weeks ago
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What Cheney, Bush, and the rest these thugs have done to our country and the world obligates our Congress and President to take responsible action.
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I believe in forgiveness and accountability. None of these criminals have shown any contrition; and forgiveness should never be invoked as a substitute for a fair trial.
The time has come for this nation and the world to see that the U.S.treats even its most powerful with the same laws it treats its ordinary citizens - that no man or woman is above the law. WE have not done to well in this area for years.
These characters are obviously guilty of treason and international crimes against humanity. Should other nations bring our criminals to justice would be one more disgrace and one more example of our failure to uphold the principles that we claim to revere.-
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Spadecaller:
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Well said my friend.
Sadly we have lost our strength when it comes to making our own president and his administration responsible for their actions.
To allow a nation like Spain to come to the forefront, and make the accused scoundrels in all the world, while they live at ease here in our nation, with no fear of justice being demanded and sought, is tarnishing our great nation.
Bush,Cheney,Rice,Rumsfeld,Gonzales... are all in glass fishbowl with scummy water. They are so polluted that the stench is smelled around the world. But the neocons here want to protect them.
Try them in America where there crimes were committed.
Do it soon before we have lost the chance to show the world that we do believe in justice.
Good article jovial.
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not2needy8 months, 2 weeks ago
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I hope Bush and Cheney are both prosecuted and convicted. When are republicans going to wake up and realize that it's their party that has the whole world coming down on us with both feet? If they don't, we are destined to be attacked.
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NoWayMan8 months, 2 weeks ago
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let jutice prevail, and let that justice be poetic.
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lets leave Gitmo open, then let Cheney, Bush etc all serve their time there, complete with "enhanced interroagation."
bad news is, for Cheney it'll probably be like a fantasy camp. -
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Endoscopy8 months, 2 weeks ago
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ROTFLMAO
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Listen to the FOOLISH liberals rant. You want to have the country look foolish in the world. There is no credible evidence but liberals the world over have to rant. But then that is what liberals love to do. Rant about how bad this country is and the solution to everything is huge government.
Obama went to that G20 conference and several countries told him he is messing up big time with the attempt to spend our way out of the recession. But Obama is a true believer that in spite of all the years of evidence to the contrary that spending is the way to go and also wants to turn the country into a socialist nightmare. This will mean according to the CBO that there will be over $2 trillion deficit this year and $1 trillion deficit forever. Bankrupting the country. Then of course the idea that taxing the rich will solve everything. The result of that is to REMOVE money from the businesses and have them go overseas in a global economy. Ireland greatly lowered the tax rate there and Business is booming. Evidence like this means nothing to liberals. Evidence that EVERY TIME the tax rate goes UP the revenue goes down and when the tax rate goes down the revenue goes up is ignored.
So with very important things like this what do liberals rant about? Bush. Poor little liberals thinking that any judge they put up is fine but when the shoe was on the other foot all they could do as the Democrats obstructed judges. Foolish liberals. Turn around is never fair play for liberals.-
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jovial8 months, 2 weeks ago
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The G20 today agreed to pump another trillion in to the world economy. The only people balking are the people that have a vested interest outside this country to keep the value of the dollar propped up. Their investments lose money when we spend money ourselves. That's why they don't want it. China is the loudest voice against the Obama bailout and the reason is obvious. They are heavily invested in the dollar. When more dollars are dumped into the world market they lose. The conservatives like you in this country think a lot like the Chinese. Imagine that, conservatives and the communist Chinese government on the same page. LMAO!
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Endoscopy8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Only a few of the countries are going to contribute to that. Those are the ones who have not learned the hard way that that does not work. Obama was lectured by some of the countries that his plan was backwards. Tax and spend has never worked. If it has then please tell us when it has. Depression of 1888 was over quickly with the government doing nothing. The depression of the 30's lasted 10 years with massive spending and confiscatory taxes on the rich going as high as 100% for a while. 10 years with mostly 20% unemployment. That is two examples and there are many more. You find one where it did work. Or can you?
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jovial8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Cutting taxes and shrinking government hasn't worked you mean. Why do you conservatives keep reaching back to the depression. It's not the same circumstances. You can't treat it the same way. There's some similarities but this one is different. The dollar has been steadily losing value anyway. It's only now that you conservatives are saying anything about it. It's going to lose value faster now due to the Bush voodonomics of the last 8 years.He fought a war without adding it to the budget and told everyone the deficit wasn't that bad. He lied to us. You guys don't even mind. Oh but now you're concerned about every cent that's spent.
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Endoscopy8 months, 2 weeks ago
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That is so right. When Reagan cut taxes the stagflation slowed and stopped after 3 years. The recession the last year of Clinton halted after the Bush tax cuts. In 1921 the major recession was stopped in its tracks as the tax rate was chopped down.
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Try again jovial with real facts of specific recessions and depressions and what the government did and the result. Japan n the 90's tried the tax and spend method and had bad times they were just now getting completely out of. Several countries in Europe have tried that and the president of the EU said that Obama's method is the path to "hell". France and Germany went down that path and they both lectured Obama.
But the faithful liberals never want to hear that. Specifics jovial not generalities that today is different.-
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DenCuddy8 months, 2 weeks ago
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By your own reasoning Endo, that must have been Carters policies finally taking effect, We all know, from you, that presidents aren't responsible for the economy they have. You've told us over and over that Clinton had the reagan economy, conveniently leaving out bush Sr.
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Endoscopy8 months, 2 weeks ago
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I notice that you try to say that the reason they do not want us to spend money is the dollar is going to lose its value. Why do you think that is a good thing. Do you not remember the stagflation under Carter? 12%+ inflation, 20%+ mortgage rates, 8.5% unemployment and it was again big spending and high tax rates. Great plan just like Obama has. I had great raises then and kept going up the tax rate ladder so without raising the tax rates everybody climbed the tax structure. Some of the raises I lost money and when I kept it the money did not go as far. If that is really your picture you should remember those times. Same economic plan as Obama has now.
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steveswb8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Remember when it was the G8? It was the G8 because those 8 countries usually have a decent economy. Have you figured out where the other 12 countries fit in? It's because they (the new 12) want the first 8 ( the wage earners) to pay them to do nothing... kinda like our welfare system. So now, with the help of "The One", we will be providing abortions AND welfare around the world... oh praise "The One".
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Endoscopy8 months, 2 weeks ago
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My point is with the economy going down the tubes that ranting at Bush accomplishes NOTHING. A lot of hot air going around with nothing really being done.
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There is a threat to block a judge by the Republicans. But who was doing that before? Seems like the Democrats were doing that. But that was OK because they were Democrats and it is different if Republicans do it. Libs want different rules for Democrats and the Republicans. Silly liberals.-
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djn3nunez38 months, 2 weeks ago
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The economy seems to be making somewhat of a rebound from the tanking it took after 8 years of Bush-o-nomics. Bush is not one of the 6 listed.
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Hot air going around? Is PC25 here?
Since Spain is the one who got Pinochett arrested I think these 6 guys, if charged, should think twice about leaving the country. Hahahahaha.
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Endo:
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This is what Bush did.
Isiah 1: 21-23
"The Degenerate City
21 How the faithful city has become a harlot!
It was full of justice;
Righteousness lodged in it,
But now murderers.
22 Your silver has become dross,
Your wine mixed with water.
23 Your princes are rebellious,
And companions of thieves;
Everyone loves bribes,
And follows after rewards.
They do not defend the fatherless,
Nor does the cause of the widow come before them."
Look at the ridiculous things Bush brought about.
Keep defending it though, it shows what you value and it is not people or their chance at salvation. It is their money and life you seek. You want others to slave for your luxury, you do not seem to understand that you will pay for what you want.
Seek first the truth. then look at what is happening.-
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DarkWizard8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Natureboy,
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I agree with you, but at least other presidents tempered their slow destruction of democracy with some form of appeasing the populace and kept on relative good terms with our allies! Bush was just down right blatant, brash, and arrogant in his ignorant bliss of both things domestic and foreign.
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hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 2 weeks ago
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tang:
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No real American stands for torture it is inhumane !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So yes real Americans want justice. Better Bush and his henchmen pay for what they did than a bunch of Americans world wide who had no say in the matter.
You say you are worried about terrorism being brought to this nation. Well what do you think the torture of people from around the world brings ???
Bush brought more terrorism than he prevented.
If you can't see that, I feel sory for you. -
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Tcaros8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Most Americans would like to see former Bush administration officials be convicted of war crimes for there part.
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Also, we as Americans need to pressure our representative to enact legislation to forbid "illegal signing statements," "covering up illegal domestic spying," "torture," and undue influence over our judicial branch by the executive branch. Also, we need more oversight into our intelligence agencies. -
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annk1-958 months, 2 weeks ago
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There seem to be a lot of people on this post who do not like America. If you are one of them, and don't live here, I bet you wish you did. Those of you who are bitching about how bad we are and are living here, please go find someplace else you think has a better government, better living conditions, more freedom, etc. When you find such a place, please go there to live. The rest of us will be better off without you.
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SpareChange8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Annk
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Why does upholding the constitution and demanding our leaders live up to our reputation make me hate America? In fact, it would seem the complete opposite.
You are loyal to your President more than you are loyal to your Constitution and to the treaties our country has signed. You are an Authoritarian, not an American
People who love this country want there to be justice... without accountability America is just a bunch of B.S., crooks and followers. -
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djn3nunez38 months, 2 weeks ago
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annk1-
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No I think you must have your wires crossed. There are alot of people who dislike the fact that the previous administration was into illegal torture. Now if you think it'ou.s okay to torture your enemies then purhaps it is you who should find such place to live and the rest of us, (you know the majority wh voted in the new Administration) will be better off without y
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annk1-958 months, 2 weeks ago
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As a parent of someone who had to fight in Baghdad, I can tell you that I wanted all the information that could be obtained about who was shooting and/or planting bombs. Those prisoners were not beaten, shot, hanged, etc. There has never been a "humane" war. If someone had to be "humilated" in order to keep my kid alive, so be it.
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Comparing Gitmo to Nazi concentration camps is stupid and ignorant. You bleeding hearts should all go join the Peace Corps. Then we can watch YOU get beheaded on national tv.-
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 2 weeks ago
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annk1-95:
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As a Vietnam vet I hate torture. I'll bet your son does as well, if he has ever see some of our men who were tortured.
Turn about is not fair play. It is the sickening fall into the soulless acts of the devil. But then again we all knew where Bushes allegiance really lay. And it wasn't with God.
If you really believe that torture brings about good info. Try this.
Put your hand on a table and have someone hit it with a hammer. They want you to tell them something you know nothing about. Now until they get that answer from you. They are going to hammer on every inch of your fingers until you tell them what they want.
I'll guarantee you after a few fingers you will be telling them anything in hopes that they will stop. When it doesn't stop you will ask them what they want to know. You will lie, you will
convict someone else to get it stopped.
I just really hope that none of your family is ever tortured. Because what you said is sickening.-
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hhussk:
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May you one day know the truth.
May that truth open your eyes to all the ridiculous false beliefs you hold. You seem to believe in Do unto others if they do it to you ,or before they do it to you.
You are less than believe yourself to be. Enjoy the insanity you embrace. -
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Beau78908 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hhussk:
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Apparently cowboygradpa doesn't understand the part of war that you think you do--the part that says war is meant for sadistic and ineffective measures that punish grunts who are "expendable" in the eyes of their leaders.
He must think war is waged to accomplish meaningful policy goals rather than to kill or maim as many people as possible. He must think war is supposed to take a bigger picture than torturing the "enemy," which gathers unreliable information, makes our soldiers less safe and creates recruits to the opposing side.
Apparently there are many parts of war that you don't understand.
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Hhussk8 months, 2 weeks ago
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If you really believe that torture brings about good info. Try this.
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Put your hand on a table and have someone hit it with a hammer.
That, in no way, reflects how the United States is conducting their interrogations. Their interactions involve already detailed intelligence, coupled with evidence captured and examined from the extraction site. And their "torture", as you call it, involves depriving the target of sleep and mental coordination.
You are basically stretching the sincerity of your argument.-
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fsev418 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hhussk, how EXACTLY do you know so much about how "the United States is conducting their interrogations."? Have you been present for any? Why were tapes of the interrogations destroyed? Do you believe what the Bush administration tells the public after they have been caught in so many obvious lies? Grandpa's argument is sound.
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cowboygrandpa8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hhussk:
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You are a simpleton.
We have sicko's who will drill your knee caps for info. Sleep deprivation is also a hideous form of torture. It brings on mental instability.
So yeah I want to trust info from a person who is delusional.
Maybe you should volunteer for it, seeing as how you already seem delusional.
Yeah pushing people from helicopters, to get their partners to spill their guts is real humane torture. It happened in Nam.
Clueless aren't ya ????
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SpareChange8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Annk
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Your son is less safe because of these practices - torture breeds resentment and hatred
Our country is less safe with these practices - torture breeds more terrorists.
How can we say to them, democracy is the way and then have policies that are antiAmerican? We have to prove to them that we are better - but Bush has only proven that he's the same as Saddam. -
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LightofReason8 months, 1 week ago
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Gitmo IS a concentration camp, it just not a death camp like Auschwitz or Belsen. Oh by the way the Bush clan wealth came from aiding Hitler, using Auschwitz slaves, running guns to the SA and SS, laundering money for Fritz Thyssen (Hitler's banker). This aid (TREASON) continued for 10-11 months after Pearl Harbor until the fed's seized Union Bank Corp. and other properties in Oct.-Nov. 1942. Prescott Bush was a managing Director and his scumbag father-in-law was also a partner.
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Most of the people in Gitmo were seized during our illegal invasion of Afghanistan BEFORE our illegal invasion of Iraq.
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hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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BB648 months, 2 weeks ago
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Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and AlQueda have never signed on. So if this is the measure, we can't be charged for crimes against anyone.
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As to the Convention, had Jimmy Carter not signed on non-uniformed protection act in 1977, terrorists were to be treated as spies and shot at will. He signed the bill as an attack on Israel and his support for the PLO and Arab money for his museum. Without their money, he wouldn't have his museum. But we'd never have pay for play from a Dem would we? We should rescind this and treat terrorists for what they are, spies, 5th columnists etc. They should be given no quarter and do whatever we need to extract as much info from them as possible. When they're worthless, use any method to dispose of them, perhaps using their own manual's suggestions.-
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willottica8 months, 2 weeks ago
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...and don't even bother to gather evidence that they're terrorists, either. Just shoot 'em. If they're dead, they won't be around to prove otherwise.
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You know what? I'm willing to concede this point. Torture could be justified against terrorists. The concession I am not willing to make is torture against suspected terrorists. So, after they have received a fair and impartial trial, if they're convicted beyond a reasonable doubt of being terrorists, then torture away. Get whatever information they have - hell, keep grilling them for information they don't have until they tell it, for all I care.
The Geneva Convention, Basic Human Rights, decency, these aren't things that should be reserved only for those who have specifically and formally agreed to them. They should be extended to everyone. To do otherwise is to act on prejudice, pure and simple. -
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djn3nunez38 months, 2 weeks ago
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Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, and AlQueda have never signed on. So if this is the measure, we can't be charged for crimes against anyone.
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Article 1
1. For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.
Article 2
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
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goggleyes8 months, 2 weeks ago
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You liberals are nauseating. The world is a different place since people fly jets into our buildings and blow our soldiers up claiming "jihad" on the infidels. They capture our troops in Somalia and hang and behead them publically while dragging them through the streets. It's a n ungly, messy business but I sleep better knowing someone is protecting ME. Worry less about their "rights" and more about our citizens. If I have to torture some explosive strapped 20 year old to prevent another 911, I will. Dont defend their "rights", trust me, they dont care about yours.
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BB648 months, 2 weeks ago
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I'm waiting for the pull out of all troops, the laying down of all nuclear weapons and his surrendering to all of the communist nations. That's at least what most of his promises were during the election. Along with most of his cabinet being charged with back taxes. The DNC is a joke under Barry.
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jovial8 months, 2 weeks ago
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How can you surrender to someone that you are not at war with? Can you prove that statement you just made that MOST of his cabinet have been charged with back taxes? The big joke these days is the RNC not the DNC. Where have you been hiding?
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VocalOp8 months, 2 weeks ago
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Now everything makes perfect sense. However, the Republicans should be grateful to President Obama for being more than gracious to the former President and his administration, not wanting to take any action against the former President. I believe he, President Obama, has made that perfectly clear. What a legacy (Bush administration).
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DarkWizard8 months, 2 weeks ago
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VocalOp,
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I think you underestimate President Obama's tact here. He may not be directly prosecuting the Bush administration (although comments in his speeches do direct economic blame upon him and the republicans), but it is obvious, through his appointments, that he IS going after Bush and company!
I think that the course Obama has taken is very thought out and will be the most effective way of exposing Bush, Darth Cheney, Rummy, Gonzo, and the rest of the axis of evil.
This course will also expose democrats who've played sycophant to the republican thrall. What I mean by this is, Pelosi, Reid, or other democrats who've acted as obstructionists in impeaching Bush/Cheney et al, will also be responsible for war crimes through omission of their constitutional duties.
I distinctly remember the neocon faithful here on Propeller saying, "Bring it on!" when the democrats here were supporting impeachment. Well, now they may be wishing that that would be all these criminals faced!
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imrdgrnr8 months, 2 weeks ago
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F*** you guy's!! This is a war!! These dadgum people were fighting against have no Geneva conventions card, they have no ROE. They wouldn't think twice about cutting your head right the F*** off for the whole world to see!! We did not start this!! unless you consider our right to free speech and pursuit of happiness and also our countries unwillingness to convert to islam a detrimental blow to our image in the world. F*** you, I was there I had people trying to kill me, I looked them in the eyes while they were doing it, just because I had the red, white, and blue on my shoulder!! So before you go judging war time acts from your Lazyboy think twice and just shut the F*** up!!
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DarkWizard8 months, 2 weeks ago
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ddago2006,
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You are the most arrogant incompetent poster Propeller has ever had and you make endoscopy look like a Nobel prize writer!
In other words, there is just as much evidence that that statement is true as the hot air you spat!
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DarkWizard8 months, 2 weeks ago
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The GOP meltdown is accelerating! The republican/neocons (is there a difference...really?) are burrowing further into their fantasy world for solace! That fantasy world is a world of denial of facts and a sad attempt at revising history. The only ones buying in to the tripe they spew are their own kind. Truly the cavewo/men of this modern era. The Bushosaurus' Cheneyodons, and Gonzodactyls are becoming extinct. Join them if you will neoconderthals...
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chickenslatts8 months, 2 weeks ago
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jovial - You certainly are an arrogant ass who enjoys the freedom provided by those you term "scum". You are, in fact, scum yourself & a traitor to your country which you obviously hate. You embrace one form of totalitariansm & decry another? Are you truly that stupid? The people you despise would - and have - given their lives to protect you and those you would comfort & defend would as soon drag your headless, bloated carcass through the streets with glee. What would make you happy? To have everyone you disagree with imprisoned, tortured & executed? The things you are supposedly against? What really hurts is the fact that an evil person like you is suffered to live amongst us. You are a hypocrite of the first water. You look fairly fat, dumb & happy - I wonder if you'll soil yourself to your socks when either a mob or a "lawfull authority" drags you from your comfortable home. Will you scream for your "rights" or beg for your life?
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"Far stretching, endless time brings forth all hidden things and buries that which once did shine: The firm resolve falters, the sacred oath is shattered, and let none say; It cannot happen here." - Sophocles
I have more respect for the average terrorist than I do for a hateful, armchair activist *****ack like yourself. May you reap the whirlwind.-
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DarkWizard8 months, 2 weeks ago
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chickenshits,
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"I have more respect for the average terrorist than I do for a hateful, armchair activist *****ack like yourself. May you reap the whirlwind."
You obviously are the one who is arrogant! I know this because jovial has served his country and yet your assumption is that he depends on the freedoms provided by others! Either way your logic is flawed and you show your ignorance with each new word of your post!
Your neocon-washed brain is confusing Nazism for patriotism! Even if you don't claim to be a republican you sound much like an enemy combatant! You hide behind your version of being an American at the exclusion of the freedoms of others! The saddest part is, you probably can't tell the difference between what you're accusing someone of and the very words you wrote being in the same category! -
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imrdgrnr8 months, 2 weeks ago
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centipedes? Dionys your a f***ing bitch, Come on over to my house and we'll see who's seen combat. Look me up on facebook Isaac Staley, EUGENE, OREGON, I'll give you my address, phone number, whatever, I fought for you f***ing civilians but I don't respect you. I have no problem whatsoever dropping a hater like ya'll. One less dumbass around.
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imrdgrnr8 months, 1 week ago
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Yeah, just like a dem. talk **** to the people who risk their lives to defend the interests of our country and its citizens, then run and hide behind the same people you denounce, *****. typical? If I'm typical, praise God that there is more like me, maybe this country has a chance after all. Threats? all I said is we'll see who has combat experience. Apparently you were just trying to push my buttons saying that the only combat I've seen is in the basement, so now you actually admit by your cowering statements that i might be a real soldier that has done something for his country? That when he and his fellow soldiers came back we were welcomed as hero's? I do believe that I have the right to have an opinion without some no nothing nobody delegating my war time actions as comparable to bug eradication. Sometimes we , the ones that have their feet on the ground, might actually know something you don't. The news is tainted by wicked people who want the war to fail. What is sad is that the American people have been trained to believe the indoctrination spewed from the mouths of these cancerous liars who withhold the truth from the faithful country that we live in. The truth is known by the enlisted soldiers who aren't afraid of speaking truth. Those same who are proud to serve while speaking non-biased views of what they have seen and experienced first hand. It's hard to come back to the world after living through life and death experiences everyday. Its hard for us. everything is black and white with the occasional gray area (due to politicians.) This world that Americans live in isn't the real world. it's an illusion pulled over your eyes thanks to generations of Men and women who stuck their life on the line and defended our way of life. we live behind a great wall which now is being torn down brick by brick with each subsequent president. Soon we will see the oppression the rest of the world has faced and who knows what will happen to our country. This place we call home will soon be only a distant memory. The new world order is on the horizon so be prepared for change. Hopefully the "typical" shall rise up and defend "old glory" to the end.
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I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE , TO THE FLAG, OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL. amen.-
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jovial8 months, 1 week ago
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So you think you are the only one that's put your life on the line and all who tread before you think the same as you, huh? Well that's B.S.! There are thousands perhaps millions of us too, that served this country and we don't run behind anyone to hide. It's the fat cat businesmen and politicians that run to hide behind the service that regular people to save the skin of their asses when they screw up. My family and many other families in this country spilled blood sweat and tears to fight for and protect this country, only to later on find out that the fighting we were doing was only to enrich the people of this country who didn't fully understand the sacrifice. The pledge of allegiance isn't a prayer. So the amen you put at the end is blasphemous if you are a true believer in God. There is a lot of evil in this world, not all of it is as apparent as you may see in Iraq, Afghanistan, ROC, Sudan etc. Sometimes the evil is not right in your face, but you can bet your bottom dollar that it's there. America by itself does not stand alone. It is made up of millions of people that different points of view. Some may agree with yours and others not. We owe each other and America the chance to speak what is on our minds. No one should through violence try to stifle the opinion or the views of other Americans with violence. If we let that happen, what makes us any different from the terrorists that we fight?
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imrdgrnr8 months, 1 week ago
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I know all about the B.S. of politics in war, I know or shall I say I believe that 9-11 was a set-up. sorry for hurting anyone's feelings, but I believe it to be true. At the same time everything happens for a reason. I believe that God has a plan that will come to pass like it or not. So there is certain people who will come to power and certain countries that will war against others so that Gods plan for our world will come to pass. Right or wrong in our eye's, it will happen and there's nothing we can do to stop it. So if you believe that everything is done by chance go ahead and be upset, but if you believe that this is a master plan unfolding before your eye's, "rejoice for the time is near." So why bother bringing people in for war crimes? what is a war crime? who made up rules of war? war is nasty, im sure everyone realizes that right? But compare what we do to the wars of the romans, spartans, egyptians, hebrews, i mean come on they were using swords, or in later times bows,axes,rocks,knives,pointy sticks, war is war, it suck's but war crimes against our rulers for aquiring intel from the people who we spared?, the people whose lives they owe to us?, those guy's?, The ones who have no rules?, who dont bring their leaders in for war crimes but exalt them as hero's? give me a break. I just hate to see the people who I believe are on the right path to protect our country ridiculed. But maybe , who knows what's supposed to happen? what is truth? what is justice? what is the way? who is right? who is wrong? it's all opinion isn't it? why do we argue over opinion? because I guess that's all we are. We are a sum total of our experiences. So sorry I guess I was just sharing myself, but obviously we can't make a difference in a world that already has an ending. so good luck to everyone. out.
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MILITA8 months, 1 week ago
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MANY OF YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN 9/11 AND ARE A DISGRACE
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TO OUR COUNTRY.
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE GEORGE W. BUSH WHO CHANGED
THE WORLD WITH THE OUSTER OF SADDAM AND IS THE
BEST PRESIDENT IN MODERN HISTORY. BUSH AND
EISENHOWER WHO SAVED THE DAY FOR FDR AND
CHURCHILL.
PHYLLIS KUNZ -
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Icantwait8 months, 1 week ago
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Breaking News! The President of the United States has decided that the housing problem is more important than the Americans captured by the Muslim Pirates. This has not been reported by the Hollywood Media. I have discovered that a lot of the Liberal responders to these news stories are actually individuals who are serving time in prison, people who are part of the terrorist movement, Communist, some Politicians, College Professors, Acorn Criminals Some brainwashed College Students but Ironically not that many Liberal Democrats. In other words impostors of the Left movement who are trying to cause Political unrest in this country. Let's face no Liberal Democrats have the mental acuity let alone the inclination to write paragraphs of utter stupidity at one time. Oh! I'm not saying they aren't stupid just to lazy to spend time typing. The true Liberal Democrats are concern about one thing only. Collecting their Government checks and enlarging their families. Some of the people to look out for are as follows: Dionys, Jelooba, Spadecaller, Hyperbola, Ratskii, HHussk, New Person, Mecormany,Fsev41,Vizion, Psychohosebeast, Sparechange, Caliqueen430, Antibrain washer, Charlson. Daylight, Omma987, Elisheva1, and
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Ruahanddabar. Look out for these responders they are spreading the hate. I will alert you too many more in the future. Just ignore what they say it is all Anti-American. Until we meet again.
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