Obama’s torture problem is only justbeginning »
Posted By jovial 7 months, 3 weeks ago in NewsHere is a problem.
Late in 2006, a Guantánamo Bay prison detainee named Abu Zubaydah recounted the treatment he received in 2002 at the hands of his American captors.
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jovial
Grew up In Brooklyn. Joined the Navy in 1976 stayed in 10 years. Aircraft Electronics tech. Worked for Major Govt. contractor then settled in California ...
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jovial7 months, 3 weeks ago
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How long can Obama hold off on the rising grumbling on making those who condoned torture meet justice? Even if he could he may not be able to. Some Democrats and Independents may find themselves going down with the burning ship. Who knew what and when? Will we stand up for justice and clear our names or will we allow this ugly precedent scar our image all over the world.
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Mutainia7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Spadecaller7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Whether Democrat or Republican, let them go down with the ship. Until we confront those that willfully and knowingly broke with both constitutional law and international law, our standing in the council of nations will remain darkened by these crimes. The right of any prisoner to know what he or she is charged with, who are the accusers, and the right to a fair and prompt hearing are fundamental rights. Without them, we are savages -- no better than the terrorists that we condemn. The idea that we can forget about the rights of the innocent that are imprisoned because we are so afraid of or angry with those guilty of terrorist acts is an unacceptable excuse for protecting our nation.
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To me, this idea that Obama is more concerned about building unity and bipartisanship, does not cut it.
Upholding and enforcing these laws, which we must rely upon to protect our constitution from both foreign and domestic threats, his one of the highest priorities a president must abide by.
The political party or clout of any individual that breaks the laws of our nation should face the same treatment any other ordinary citizen would face for committing these same acts of barbarism.
WE must stop treating our politicians as if they are above the law. Until we do, those that legislate are apart of an aristocracy ordained with the permission to rule by lawlessness and whim. Obama has condemned the actions of the previous administration and has acknowledged that he does not believe that their behavior was constitutional. With that admitted acknowledgment, he is obligated to bring these individuals before the courts. -
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wordwaryor7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Let's Stop the torture once and for all..... and end the crisis of what to do with the Gitmo prisoners. ...
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So here is what I propose.... since no other nation will take them ...
1. Fly them all in small groups of 12 to Antartica (no nation owns Antarctica).
2. Drop them off there from a helicopter with a large cardboard box, and lift off.
3. Inside the box will be enough plastique explosive and an exploding vest with pockets already sewn in, and enough wire, a detonator button and a battery to make ONE Jihad exploding Vest.
4. Printed instructions in Arabic will explain that they have enough material to make one Jihad human bomb.... they can all gather around and make one last Islamic Terrorist act against themselves..... Or they can sit by and freeze to death and become Islamic Jihad Popsicles.
Their Freedom and their choice.
P.S..... We sincerely hope that your 70 Virgins are not all FRIGID !!
Sincerely,
The USA-
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jovial7 months, 3 weeks ago
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The torture was already ordered to be stopped by our current president Obama. The issue is what are we going to do about the people who secretly broke the law and tortured anyway. Do we just say, "Mulligan!" or do we enforce the law?
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hyperbola7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Too many cowards in the Obama administration. Where is the change Obama? Are you so deadly afraid of the zioncons like Feith?
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Cowardice in the Time of Torture
I used to take a certain pride by association with prominent Bronxites who have "made it." Cancel that for Attorney General Eric Holder and former Secretary of State Colin Powell. You might think that as African-Americans, they would be especially outraged by torture, given what blacks have suffered at the hands of white torturers in this country and abroad.
Why is it that they seem to value more their admittance into a privileged white-dominated ruling class than doing the right thing? How else to explain their stunning reluctance to hold torturers accountable and thus remove the stain of torture from our nation's soul and reputation?
One might say that Attorney General Holder is proving himself to be part of that "nation of cowards" that he called the United States in a different context, i.e. our unwillingness to address the issue of race. What about when the victims of torture are Muslims? Where's Holder's courage then?
Never mind that Holder, like President Barack Obama, took a solemn oath to faithfully execute the laws of the land. Why are they still afraid of Dick Cheney, whom even the neo-con editors of the Washington Post in 2005 branded "Vice President for Torture?"
Holder seems to be taking his cue from the pitiable Colin Powell, now traversing the country giving lucrative speeches on leadership. Powell knew he was welcome into the club, or in this case the White House, only as long as he toed the line and was willing to offer up what was left of his reputation to the Bush/Cheney war effort.... More to the point, Colin Powell betrayed the U.S. Army and the nation on the issue of torture.
On April 3, former Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith, the fabulous fabricator of the fabled Saddam-al-Qaeda connection, upped the ante in the "so-wattaya gonna-do-‘bout-it" challenge, and held up to ridicule the timidity of Holder and the President....
Clearly, the Cheneys and Feiths of this world are betting on Obama being cut of the same cloth. The President will prove them right if it turns out that his oft-repeated "No one is above the law" proves to be just rhetoric.
And it will remain just rhetoric, if Obama delays much longer in ordering the reluctant Holder to appoint a nonpartisan, independent special prosecutor to bring the torturers to justice and end this shameful chapter in American history once and for all.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/06/cowardic... -
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Endoscopy7 months, 3 weeks ago
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How about the Gitmo detainee that was so kind to the woman medic helping him. She had treated him before and gained her trust. He asked her to bend closer so he could tell her something. He grabbed her hair and smashed her face into things so bad she has had 16 reconstructive surgeries and counting. Nothing was done to him for this. This is the kind of people you are arguing for.
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nostalgia7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Like these warm fuzzy people who are at GITMO and Holder said may be released in the US
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I heard an interview with an ex-CIA agent over the week-end. He said were at a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan
Weekly Standard
Some of the detainees, deemed non-threatening, may be released into the United States as free men, Blair confirmed.
That would happen when they can't be returned to their home countries, because the governments either won't take them or the U.S. fears they will be abused or tortured. That is the case with 17 Uighurs (WEE'-gurz), Chinese Muslim separatists who were cleared for release from the jail long ago. The U.S. can't find a country willing to take them, and it will not turn them over to China.
The Uighur detainees are cited, over and over again, as the types of detainees who can be safely released into the U.S. This conclusion has been reached through a combination of specious reasoning and ignorance.
None of the 17 Uighurs are master terrorists on par with the likes of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. They were mostly new recruits at the time of their capture. However, as I have argued before, they are all affiliated with and/or members of a designated terrorist organization, received training at a training camp in the al Qaeda/Taliban stronghold of Tora Bora, and have admitted that they were trained by two known terrorists. And, on top of that, the group that trained them threatened to attack the Olympic Games in China last year.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/0... -
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rally-monkeyComment removed: Abusive2 Replies
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tracy14Comment removed: Hard Banned
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DarkWizard7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Torture is wrong, but detaining enemy combatants is not. I have no problem with putting bad people in prisons, but at some point they need to be charged and tried for whatever crime(s) they are being held for.
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That being said, the Bush administration needs to be held accountable to its U.S. citizens and to its allies for any breach of international treaties or agreements for which it participates. Also, the Bush administration is NOT above the law and Obama CANNOT put this on the shelf without adverse consequences to our standing in the global community and our freedoms as expressed in the Constitution.
Even though, Obama has a lot on his plate with the economy, health care, and education he could be easily undermined if he doesn't get a handle on this situation. I just don't think he wants to open this can-of-worms with everything else going on, but his hand may be forced by what Spain is currently doing.
I do believe that Obama wants to address the crimes of Bush, but on a later timetable. His appointments certainly seem to be digging up all kinds of information pointing to a variety of crimes committed by Bush and the far reaching tentacles of his administration. -
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Klarissa7 months, 3 weeks ago
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Check out the playbook for these prisoners.
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They have been instructed to make up stories about torture. What they told the Red Cross may or may not be true.
But then, we believe that other countries follow the Marquess of Queensbury rules.-
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jovial7 months, 3 weeks ago
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See my statement above. These prisoners were never allowed to speak to each other while in captivity. How could the experiences they relate be so similar? If you think that it's part of AlQaeda training, I think that is conspiracy rambling. Then you have that little problem that blows your whole conspiracy argument out of the water. Bush and Cheney both admitted that torture was going on. At the height of the torture we were made to believe that it wasn't policy and it was just a few lower rank soldiers that ran amok. If Bush and Cheney both knew that they were indeed torturing people as a policy, why didn't they admit to it until later? And why would you say that what these people are saying is a lie?
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StevieGee7 months, 3 weeks ago
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I don't see this as Obama's problem. This is the job of the attorney general. Holder needs to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate and, if warranted, prosecute these crimes. It will be better if we do it in house rather than have the international community do it.
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cspezial7 months, 3 weeks ago
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We are the United States of America. We do NOT systematically torture people. What happens in the field happens - is a prisoner going to get roughed up by a soldier? Yes. Is the guy who gets caught setting off an IED that kills a kid going to make it back to HQ for questioning? Probably not - had a little "accident" along the way... But as a SYSTEM, condoned by the President, we should not torture people. This includes waterboarding, sleep dep, starvation, etc. I understand that "they would do it to us". I understand that the individuals may have some info that could help us and yes, that info might save an American life. But if we want to set an example in the world, and be respected, to "reach out to our enemies", we have to act that way. If we are down to half-drowning a guy to get the important info from him, to avoid another major attack, for example, then why are we spending billions on an FBI, CIA, and NSA? Honestly, think about it - for all of the satellites and illegal wire-taps and operators on the ground, we are down to waterboarding an illiterate Arab teenager? I want my tax money back - Obama, I want my check now, please...
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