Comments for Obama to release OLC torture memos; promises no prosecutions for CIA officials - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com »
Posted By ForrestPhelps 8 months, 1 week ago in NewsIn a just-released statement, Barack Obama announced that -- in response to an ACLU FOIA lawsuit -- he has ordered four key Bush-era torture memos released, and the Associated Press, citing anonymous Obama sources, is reporting that "there is very little redaction, or blacking out, of detail in the memos."Marc Ambinder is reporting that only the names of the CIA agents involved will be redacted; everything else will be disclosed. Simultaneously, and certainly with the intend to placate angry intelligence officials, Attorney General Eric Holder has "informed CIA officials [though not necessarily Bush officials] who used waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics on terror suspects that they will not be prosecuted," and Obama announced the same thing in his statement.
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Candida8 months, 1 week ago
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I've just seen a report on those memos in the evening news. They are straight out of 1984.
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I can understand to some extent that he doesn't want to prosecute the CIA interrogators, but I don't understand why he doesn't prosecute the people who authorized their methods.-
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Klarissa8 months, 1 week ago
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Charlson8 months, 1 week ago
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A straw-man argument. Let us focus on the problem at hand and in a time that is more meaningful to our situation today. The Bush administration was culpable in state sanctioned torture and should be dealt with now before it becomes another failure of our republic to do what is right.
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oneironaut4208 months, 1 week ago
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"actually, we should go back to FDR memos of tactics used during WWII"
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OMG, are you serious??
For the last 3 months, when Republicans have made derogatory comments about Obama, and Democrats have pointed out Bush's mistakes in rebuttal, the former have been quick to point out that we should "let go of the past, and focus on the present."
And now I see a Bush supporter bringing up something that happened more than 50 years ago...ROFL!!
Ah, the Republican motto..."Do as I say, not as I do"...the hypocrisy is simply stunning. *Shaking head sadly*
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PapaWolf8 months, 1 week ago
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klarissa,
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you mean go back through the times in which this country has prosecuted people for doing the very "enhanced interrogation" procedures these memos show the Bush administration authorized?
I agree. Let's look back through history because it shows this country DOES NOT CONDONE torture, illegal wire taps, etc., etc., etc., practiced by the w admin. & its minions.-
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PapaWolf8 months, 1 week ago
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Nope. & I'd like to know how you stretched that one out. Especially since I said:
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>>this country DOES NOT CONDONE torture, illegal WIRE TAPS, etc., etc., etc., ....
Or didn't you notice that?
So, how can I condone his wire taps when I just said this country does NOT condone them?-
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PapaWolf8 months, 1 week ago
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tell me, tang, why you believe he should be impeached for his silence on ACTA. If I understand it correctly, you're equating him not releasing docs about a trade agreement with illegal torture, wiretaps, searches & seizures, wars, etc?
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PapaWolf8 months, 1 week ago
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No, tang. the patriot act was about giving the bush admin unwarranted power to spy on US citizens WITHOUT warrants or oversight.
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ACTA is an ongoing treaty negotiation & withholding trascripts is hardly an impeachable offense.
You seem to be more worried about Obama not wanting to release papers on treaty negotiations than you are about W & Cheney holding secret energy policy meetings, warrantless wiretaps, indefinite detention, torture & preemptive invasion.
When details of ACTA come out, I'll comment.
So, tang, you're equating a few guys whispering in a corner to a few other guys kidnapping people, beating them & breaking in & occupying others' homes.
Until you realize that these types of arguments are totally ludicrous & that your arguments are nothing more than hatred of anything not ultra-conservative, then it's a waste discussing things with you.
L8r
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spkguy8 months, 1 week ago
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"cand - actually, we should go back to FDR memos of tactics used during WWII"
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You mean like "Executive Order 9066"
"Japanese American internment refers to the forcible relocation and internment of approximately 110,000 Japanese nationals and Japanese Americans to housing facilities called "War Relocation Camps", in the wake of Imperial Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor. The internment of Japanese Americans was applied unequally throughout the United States. Japanese Americans residing on the West Coast of the United States were all interned, whereas in Hawaii, where over 150,000 Japanese Americans composed nearly a third of that territory's population, an additional 1,200[3] to 1,800 Japanese Americans were interned.[4] Of those interned, 62 percent were United States citizens."
Oh and what did Ronald Reagan feel he was obligated to do in 1988?
"In 1988, Congress passed and President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership". About $1.6 billion in reparations were later disbursed by the U.S. government to surviving internees and their heirs"
That's smart lets not learn from history the right and wrong things to do.-
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kobzikov8 months, 1 week ago
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Huh??? American citizens of German descent and anyone who looked like they might be of German descent were rounded up into internment camps on the basis of their race? That's news to me.
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Got evidence for that? Or are you talking only about Germans who were charged and convicted in a court of law for espionage and sabotage here?
By the way, since you said quote "we should go back to FDR memos of tactics used during WWII" then you'd be all for it if that was done again wouldn't you? After all that is what you are advocating, limitless executive power to imprison anyone, even American citizens, on patently racist grounds?
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4thchance8 months, 1 week ago
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If I were a terrorists I would be saying THANK YOU OBAMA. THANK YOU FOR LETTING US MURDERING TERRORIST KNOW HOW TO PREPARE OURSELVES FOR AMERICAN INTERROGATIONS IF WE ARE CAPTURED. Now we know how to resist your tactics and this gives us the upper hand. OBL says thank you to Obama too! Clear thinking Americans say you're a complete dumb ass though....
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Charlson8 months, 1 week ago
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Ah, if Obama disavows ever using torture again how would this come to play? What are they going to prepare for if there is no torture to endure?
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For your information, more important and tactical information was gotten out of terrorists when more humane interrogation techniques were used. We got more info with sugar than pain and deprivation.-
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned2 Replies
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PapaWolf8 months, 1 week ago
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4th,
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didn't you miss a few memos along the way? For instance:
1) the man we've been torturing for years & allegedly gave us all that allegedly good intel that turned out completely bogus. AAMOF, we got more intel out of him BEFORE we started torturing him
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2) Terrorists have been using our torturing to recruit into their organizations by showing everyone that they were right about us.
Keep defending w's torturing. But realize you NEVER AGAIN have the right to accuse us "Liberals", or anyone else for that matter, of being immoral. -
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kobzikov8 months, 1 week ago
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Really, 4th? You've figured out how to resist sleep deprivation, stress positions, beatings, sexual humiliation, water boarding, sensory deprivation, and being force-fed through the nose tube??? Why don't you enlighten us?
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So far, at least to best of my knowledge, no one in human history has figured out how to resist torture, but if you were a terrorist you'd know??? Any other superpowers you'd have as a terrorist?
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prophyporcritesComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned3 Replies
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prophyporcritesComment removed: Spammer, Hard Banned21 Replies
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Locky12Comment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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4thchance8 months, 1 week ago
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Hey Charlson
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I'll prove you WRONG here...
lets say you masturbate all the time, lets say I want you to admit that to your own mother.
So, I promise to give you all the nice talk and candy you want if you will tell your mother that you masturbate all the time. Are you going to admit it to your mother if I promise to be nice to you and give you candy? No you would not admit it.
BUT, lets say I take your arm and twist it so tightly behind your back, that it's making popping and cracking sounds, you beleive your arm is going to be twisted right off your body, now will you admit to your mother that you masturbate all the time. My guess is that you will admit to it before you lose your arm. Do you still beleive being nice works better then having your arm broken off and removed from your body? You can go ahead and argue, but no one will beleive you now!-
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PapaWolf8 months, 1 week ago
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4th - that's ridiculous. Let's give you another scenario.
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You're a terrorist who knows about an imminent explosion or attack. You've been captured & are being subjected to "enhanced interrogation". Being a person who is willing to suffer & die for his beliefs, wouldn't you be able to:
1) withstand the pain until the attack, or
2) feed your interrogators enough misinformation & send them in wrong directions until the attack?
And, meanwhile, your torture is acting as a recruiting poster to replace you, 1 terrorist, with at least 1/2 dozen more to replace you.-
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PapaWolf8 months, 1 week ago
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WHAT????? You talking about Pearl?
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1st, what does that have to do w/our torturing? & 2nd, don't you remember they beheaded him, & others, AFTER they found out about Abu Ghraib?
And don't try to feed my any bull that I'm condoning their actions. If I don't condone us torturing or killing prisoners, why exactly would I condone anyone else doing it? It's just that we're not discussing them; we're discussing torture in THIS country by OUR gov't.-
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kobzikov8 months, 1 week ago
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Soviet top brass broke after being "kept up all night" for no more then 10 days by NKVD officials on Stalin's orders and signed away much more then their own lives.
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I imagine it would take no more then a week for someone with no military training to agree to a beheading. -
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PapaWolf8 months, 1 week ago
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He was beheaded because we tortured. Pearl's captors killed him in retaliation. They even said as much.
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And now NK is holding 2 US journalists & charging them w/espionage. Again, our policies, this time in Guantanimo, were used as validation for its detention of our citizens.
And, as to keeping him up all night, try for days & weeks at a time, or chained in a standing position for days.
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Tangent0018 months, 1 week ago
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Okay, Zubayda says he was waterboarded and had other 'enhanced interrogation' techniques used on him on several occasions. Now we have the memos that authorized the use of waterboarding (just not more than 2 times a day, please) and other techniques.
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That makes Zubayda a liar how? Are you saying the interrogators asked for authorization for very specific techniques, received authorization for those very specific techniques, but never used them?
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Tangent0018 months, 1 week ago
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That's a false dichotomy. Here's another approach: I convince you that even though masturbation is generally accepted and healthy, the AMOUNT to which you indulge borders on obsessive neurosis, and you should go to your mother so she can get you the help you need.
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What about that approach? -
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wtagg8 months, 1 week ago
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I wonder why this particular subject matter, but since it is yours, I will use it.
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Would you admit that you masturbate if you feel your arm is going to be twisted off your body if you don't masturbate?
Quite frankly, if your mother truly believes that you don't masturbate, there are bigger issues afoot.
You are attempting to do cause and effect analysis with only one side of the equation. Your assumption is that everyone is guilty or has the knowledge to divulge to begin with. That is pretty funny considering the government's abilities to get things right. Again, this points to a contradiction in many arguments. Many assert that government is inefficient and incapable, probably with very good reason. Suddenly, depending on the topic, the government is the best at doing something, like the defense of this country or in this case, interrogation. I think it is very hard to have it both ways. Either the government is good at reaching objectives and project management or it isn't.
This logic reminds me of the old Christian truth assertion method of ducking where if you were a witch, you would float. If you did not float and drowned, you were not a witch.
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4thchance8 months, 1 week ago
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Locky12
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what Bush official are you referring to?
“I don't believe Obama would intentionally endanger the nation"
Sorry, he already did.
"Obama believes we are no longer really at war and no longer face the kind of grave threat to our national security"
Oh sure, terrorists just love America now that Obama is in charge....
That was the dumbest thing anyone has ever posted. -
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BB648 months, 1 week ago
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In reviewing the report, I found it very damaging to the safety standards laid out for the CIA with Congressional approval. If the terrorists know where the CIA will stop, the fear is gone. Most of the methods used the fear of the unknown. Now that the terrorists know the limits, fear is gone. Will this now mean the Obama administration will need to increase the levels? Or will this only happen after we're attacked here in our own country? If I were Osama, I'd be sending the President a thank you note and a campaign contribution.
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Tangent0018 months, 1 week ago
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So you're saying torture is a deterrent?
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"Sorry, Ahmed, I'm gonna have to back out on our dirty bomb plan against the Great Satan. I mean, the CIA might torture me!"
I just can't picture it.
Even the death penalty is no 'deterrent' for murder.-
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BB648 months, 1 week ago
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Tang it's clear you've never been in the military. We had what is called POW training. Some guys took it as a joke but it really gave you an understanding what to expect if you are captured. Our enemies use our own training manuals found on line to train their people. If they know that the water boarding is done for so many seconds and no more, they know when it will stop. If they know that they might be put into a dark confined space for an hour or cold room for a day, psychologically they know when it will end. If a prisoner has knowledge of your interrogation methods, it gives him an edge and is more difficult to break. By the way, the whole CIA plan really isn't torture. I didn't see any mention of jumper cables, pliers, testicle clamps or glass rods. All items Alqueda has used and is in their manuals. Playing mind games isn't fun but it can work just as well unless they know what to expect.
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paramale8 months, 1 week ago
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Now that the administration has started disclosures, there remains one disclosure that should be made to put the minds of about a third of Americans and many people in other countries. On 9-11, the federal government immediately after the attack on the Pentagon seized security tapes from a hotel and a gas station which would show EXACTLY what attacked the Pentagon. Under Bush, these memos, which could hardly be argued show state secrets, given the openness with which the site has been open for inspection. All the American people have seen is useless blur. Shouldn't these tapes be disclosed since no harm to our national security is involved? Were the tapes impounded because they differ so radically with the government's story of 9-11 (which is factually riddled with holes for dispute). If we are going to heal as a nation, lets get in it all out in the open and deal with it.
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Icantwait8 months, 1 week ago
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My Fellow American I understand this is a country of laws. So, will tax evasion be one of them. Will those guilty get the old hanging tree. Perhaps these guilty individuals will all get jobs in the President "imposters", cabinet. I guess we should have really given all those vermin some genuine torture. Perhaps another one of Obamas' campaign speeches would have done the trick. The Real American
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