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Posted by: RedRiverJ 8 months ago
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RedRiverJ8 months ago
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RedRiverJ8 months ago
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FTA-Specter was under heavy fire from conservatives for his support of President Obama's $787 stimulus bill earlier this year. Specter helped negotiate a compromise that was approved by Congress with the support of only three Senate Republicans.
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NO kidding Arlen, what did you expect?-
libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned5 Replies
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most_reasonable8 months ago
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Arlen finally realized that there was no room in the new GOP for honest, integrity, and competence. Something that has now been more and more apparent to the American public.
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If you can't say NUK-U-LAR there is no place for you.
Leaving behind the empty chaff that was once a great party.-
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tanglang8 months ago
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Did you see Obama 2 days ago when his tele-prompter got stuck? He had to sit there and wait for them to catch the prompter up before he could continue.
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Sarah Palin (someone yall think is stupid) gave her entire RNC speech without a prompter because it was broken.
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Beau78908 months ago
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Agreed, RedRiverJ. Sens. Collins and Snowe should also leave the Republican party, which has clearly become more interested in gaining power than in trying to help the country.
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Their bullying tactics against anyone who dares to think for himself are not helping their cause, but they don't seem to care that their out-of-the-mainstream ideas are losing them support, and quickly. Apparently, they're not familiar with the phrase, "cutting off your nose to spite your face."
Here's Specter's full statement on his decision to leave the Republican party:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/28/us/politics/28ca...
From that statement:
Since my election in 1980, as part of the Reagan Big Tent, the Republican Party has moved far to the right. Last year, more than 200,000 Republicans in Pennsylvania changed their registration to become Democrats. I now find my political philosophy more in line with Democrats than Republicans.-
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tanglang8 months ago
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By acting like liberals instead of conservatives they have moved farther right? You guys own big government, weak border security and ridiculous government spending. Over the last 8 years the republicans tried to out dem the dems when it came to these issues and were then called neocons. Now they are trying to get back to their conservative values having seen that acting like liberals will get us nowhere. Specter just wants to continue the failed policy of big gov, big spend and weak border security.
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Beau78908 months ago
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Keep telling yourself all that, tang.
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By your standards, there are no longer any conservatives--certainly not the Republican party, which is booting everyone who's not a wacked-out follower of Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Bachmann and Dick Cheney (conservatives?) out of their party.
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GLee8 months ago
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Hate to lose a 'number'. Don't hate to lose Spector. He needs to be with his own kind of 'people'.
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In the United States, conservatives are generally characterized by adherence to limited government, public morality and free enterprise. Specifically, conservatives tend to support these policies with very small veriations if any at all:
Return of prayer in school
Prohibition of abortion
Opposition to same-sex marriage licenses and homosexuals
Support of laws against pornography
Support of the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms
Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
Stronger law enforcement and anti-crime laws, including the death penalty
Parental control of education
Private medical care and retirement plans
Weakening or canceling failed social support programs
Generally opposed to the United Nations
Support enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
Support tightening of border security
Respect for our military... past and present
Literal interpretation of the Bible
Low taxes, especially for families
Opening foreign markets to U.S. products
Less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments
A strong national defense !!
Every so often a conservative has been elected president of the United States. All presidents combine some liberal and some conservative elements, as well as some policies that do not fit into categories.
Thank GOD for conservatives. The glue that holds this country together right down to the core values.-
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Dionys8 months ago
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"Thank GOD for conservatives. The glue that holds this country together right down to the core values."
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That might be true if anyone in the Repugnant Con party was an actual Conservative.
"Core Values"
That phrase always sticks in the craw, doesn't it? It's like neo-con code for "we'll enforce our Biblical doctrine as morality on everyone else." -
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memestryker8 months ago
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Your list describes ultra-conservatives, or what are popularly referred to as neoconservatives. Conservatives are moderates, and include atheists, gays, and a lot of others.
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You are correct that the republican party has been hi-jacked by the far right who refer to moderates as RINOs. Now the so-called RINOs are getting the message and jumping ship.
We need moderates, and neither the repubs nor dems are providing them.
Spector is a pragmatist, and he realizes that, if repubs are going dem, that his only real hope for reelection is to follow them. Obama has at least become more accepting of moderates in his speech if not his actions.-
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RedRiverJ8 months ago
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Moderates aren't RHINO's. RHINO's are republicans who are acting like far left democrats that go along with this insane stimulus bill, giving amnesty to illegals while we have millions out of work here, Schumer is working on that as we speak........just doing things the middle of America is against. Middle meaning center, a little left of center and a little right of center.
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http://www.numbersusa.com/content/news/april-27-20...
If the link doesn't work try numbersUSA.com it's all over their front page.-
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memestryker8 months ago
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Schumer is a freak. He's off the charts left even for a democrat. But he's wealthy leftist bully Bloomberg's buddy, so it's no surprise.
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But I think we have to agree to disagree on RINOs, since I view them as the centrists these days. I truly think the religious right and corporatists have hi-jacked the republican party and it's lost its conservative identity.
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mesodude8 months ago
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"In the United States, conservatives are generally characterized by adherence to limited government, public morality and free enterprise. Specifically, conservatives tend to support these policies with very small veriations if any at all:"
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--uhh...Bush, Nov '04? ;-( -
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ForrestPhelps8 months ago
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To: GLee
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Thanks for the list. As an avowed liberal, I'd like to comment and see if that leads to a further intelligent discussion of at least some of your points.
I apologize in advance, because I think you'll believe I'm just being a smart-aleck, and I probably am. Really, I mean no disrespect to you personally. It's just that I find it easier (in this case) to respond in a quick manner to each of your posts.
-Return of prayer in school
Does that mean all prayer? You would have no problem with prayers to Allah, or to any other recognized religion's deity or deities?
-Prohibition of abortion
In all cases (rape/incest)? And who would provide for all the children?
-Opposition to same-sex marriage and homosexuals
I didn't know anyone was trying to force you into a same sex marriage. And while we're at it, I think left-handed redheads should be opposed too, just like homosexuals.
-Support of laws against pornography
I would amend that to "Support of laws against [child] pornography". Otherwise, are we talking banning "Ulysses" and "Tropic of Cancer" again?
-Support of the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms
Me, too. But I would like to see the problem of outgunned law enforcement personnel addressed, along with doing something to reduce handgun violence endemic to our society. I'm very open to a discussion on this subject.
-Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
Not sure what you mean by this.
-Stronger law enforcement and anti-crime laws, including the death penalty
Generally, I don't like the death penalty since it's so very final, and there are a bit too many instances of wrongful conviction. I'm all in favor of trying to find solutions to crime.
-Parental control of education
Just watch an episode of Jerry Springer and envision the guests on his show having absolute control of their child's education. Homeschooling, as long as it must follow the same standards as public education, and is paid for by the parents, can be wonderful.-
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ForrestPhelps8 months ago
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To: GLee (continued)
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-Private medical care and retirement plans
Agree wholeheartedly with both ideas, but the first is not affordable to most Americans, and the second only works if everyone accepts the responsibility for their own retirement, and a catastrophe doesn't occur to them. You know, like a company-run retirement plan being allowed to disappear because the company goes belly-up.
-Weakening or canceling failed social support programs
IMO, a social support program should be evaluated. If it is needed, then it should be run efficiently. But I'm all for eliminating programs that are no longer needed.
-Generally opposed to the United Nations
Generally wish the US did more to support the UN to try and make it work better. It is a very flawed organization (with some very good successes), but since the rest of the world isn't going away anytime soon, some kind of international organization is needed.
-Support enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
IMO, immigration laws need to be re-written to be fairer and more sensible, then the new laws need to be enforced.
-Support tightening of border security
Ditto. But it's going to be expensive, and difficult.
-Respect for our military... past and present
With caveats. I have little respect for some military personnel who have acted shamefully, so I won't blindly support all military personnel just because they are in the military.
-Literal interpretation of the Bible
Well, you lose me completely on this one. However, having read the Bible, I find much in it to admire and would never tell anyone to ignore it. I even have no problem with the Bible being studied in our schools - in a comparative religion course, or in any course on religion - just please don't bring it to science class.-
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ForrestPhelps8 months ago
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To: GLee (continued)
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-Low taxes, especially for families
Like many politicians, I'd like to see our tax code rewritten and simplified. But I'm willing to pay my fair share.
-Opening foreign markets to U.S. products
This is a subject of which I know little, so I'll withhold comment and allow more informed people to discuss it.
-Less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments
Frankly, that scares me. It brings up visions of things like slavery, and Dred Scott decisions. Perhaps that is not what you mean. IMO, the amount of power of the various governments and the issues they attempt to address will probably always be in a state of flux. Like medical marijuana laws. What's a state supposed to do?
-A strong national defense !!
Again, with caveats. We probably aren't threatened in any meaningful way by more than 1 or 2 other nations. And I've always felt the real strength of a nation is in its ideals and how well it can express them and help the rest of the world towards similar goals. The easiest battle to win is always the one that requires no armed confrontation.
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So, in conclusion, I agree we all have some liberal and some conservative elements, and are in some ways uncategorizable.
But I think that the glue that holds this country together is our commitment to the ideals of our Constitution, whether liberal OR conservative, and our willingness to welcome both people and ideas into that old melting pot.
Personally, I don't thank God or a god or gods for that. I thank everyone who is willing to stand up for the truth and for what is right, regardless of party or political ideology, or race, or sexual orientation, or gender, or who their forefathers just happened to be.
Anyhow, I think I mellowed as I went along. Please don't take anything I wrote as an insult. That was not my intent. And I really would love to discuss any or all of the issues above, on this thread or as they arise on others.-
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RedRiverJ8 months ago
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Forrest you are on a roll today! Good points, even tho I disagree I like the way you said them and how you are the only liberal here that didn't call names. Excellent! That's why I invite you to comment, you can make a point with logic without having to blame it all on BUSH Cons and Sarah Palin.
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Thanks for your points.-
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ForrestPhelps8 months ago
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To: RedRiverJ
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Thanks a bunch, friend. I try not to let my emotions make me rude. And thanks for posting this article. I haven't read most of the comments yet, but I hope there is some discussion going on.
As far as the blame game, I admit to my biases, but I try to admit (and speak out against) what I perceive as wrong, no matter who does it. Everyone makes mistakes - it's what we do about those mistakes that can make all the difference. -
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jakesguile8 months ago
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I have a problem with almost everything on that list... But let's go over some of the ones that you don't have a "stranglehold" on.
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- Support of Second Amendment. ALL people support the 2nd, what we believe however is that there needs to be regulations attached. Sort of like the prohibitions against certain kinds of speech. Like yelling "fire" in a crowded room or "bomb" on a plane.
- Support and Respect for the Millitary - we ALL respect and support the troops. That doesn't mean we always agree with what they do. I remember reading a fiction novel in Junior year in High School.. I forget the name.. something like Snowfall on Ceder Trees... *checked* no sorry, Snow Falling on Cedars. It talked about some of the brutality of WWII over on the Japanese side and how the racism still existed from that. Talked about soldiers who would take the bodies of dead Japanese soldiers and do sick crap like shooting the head of their penises off while photographing it or something... So baka, we all support the troops but we're allowed to disagree with some of their actions. Dissent is not betrayal (don't misunderstand that, threatening armed uprising against your government is not "dissent" it's treason)
Everything else is essentially insane... Especially that crap about "Parental control of education." Parents should have VERY limited control over what their kids are allowed to learn in school. Look, in my Junior AP English Language class we had to read Book of Genesis and (I believe) Gospel of John or maybe Peter. It's been a few years and I didn't end up getting that far (I was a little busy with The Crucible and East of Eden).. My point is because we had to critically analyze what was being presented and these books made a LOT of Biblical references. The only way to analyze those references would be to know them. It wasn't intended to prosteletyze, but to analyze. If you had it your way your kids would never be exposed to ANY alternative viewpoints which makes you very closed-minded. Just because they learn the viewpoint does not mean they HAVE to accept it anymore than my Jr. year class HAD to accept any of the teachings in the King James Bible just because we were reading them. Learning about more viewpoints allows for a person to develop a respect for that viewpoint. It's called "I respect your viewpoint and you but I don't necessarily agree with what you're saying."... YOUR viewpoint however I have very little respect for because you don't respect mine so why should I bother? Kind of like cutting off my nose to spite my face, ya know? -
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