Obama says waterboarding was torture »
Posted By alakazam 8 months ago in NewsWASHINGTON ; President Obama said Wednesday night that waterbarding authorized by former President George W. Bush was torture and that the information it gained from terror suspects could have been obtained by other means.
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alakazam
" Truth, Justice and The American Way" ...Kal-El of Krypton.
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alakazam8 months ago
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hyperbola8 months ago
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Interesting that so many Americans think anything has changed with the arrival of Obama!
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Obama's 100 Days - The Mad Men Did Well
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/30/obama39s...
The BBC's American television soap Mad Men offers a rare glimpse of the power of corporate advertising. The promotion of smoking half a century ago by the “smart” people of Madison Avenue, who knew the truth, led to countless deaths. Advertising and its twin, public relations, became a way of deceiving dreamt up by those who had read Freud and applied mass psychology to anything from cigarettes to politics. Just as Marlboro Man was virility itself, so politicians could be branded, packaged and sold.
It is more than 100 days since Barack Obama was elected president of the United States. The “Obama brand” has been named “Advertising Age’s marketer of the year for 2008”.... No one knew what the new brand actually stood for. So accomplished was the advertising (a record $75m was spent on television commercials alone) that many Americans actually believed Obama shared their opposition to Bush’s wars. In fact, he had repeatedly backed Bush’s warmongering and its congressional funding. Many Americans also believed he was the heir to Martin Luther King’s legacy of anti-colonialism. Yet if Obama had a theme at all, apart from the vacuous “Change you can believe in”, it was the renewal of America as a dominant, avaricious bully....
...In his first 100 days, Obama has excused torture, opposed habeas corpus and demanded more secret government. He has kept Bush’s gulag intact and at least 17,000 prisoners beyond the reach of justice. On 24 April, his lawyers won an appeal that ruled Guantanamo Bay prisoners were not “persons”, and therefore had no right not to be tortured. His national intelligence director, Admiral Dennis Blair, says he believes torture works. One of his senior US intelligence officials in Latin America is accused of covering up the torture of an American nun in Guatemala in 1989; another is a Pinochet apologist. As Daniel Ellsberg has pointed out, the US experienced a military coup under Bush, whose secretary of “defence”, Robert Gates, along with the same warmaking officials, has been retained by Obama. -
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Endoscopy8 months ago
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Obama is a lawyer. Therefore he is lying. The federal law of torture states that torture is extreme pain or the threat of it or death etc. So this smart lawyer does not even know what the law says. Open mouth and agitate the liberals with a lie.
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cowboygrandpa8 months ago
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alakazam:
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Yep, Mr. Bush is guilty of allowing prisoners to be tortured. Now what are they going to do about it ? We were calling for his impeachment, how about being tried as a terrorist ?? We should try him here, before another nation tries him in absentia, his fate could be much worse if tried elsewhere.
Also FTA
"The president gave assurance that one way or another Pakistan's nuclear arsenal would not fall into the hands of Islamic extremists. He said he was confident "primarily, initially" because he believes Pakistan will handle the issue on its own. But he left the door open to eventual U.S. action to secure the weapons if need be."
This is really good news.-
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alakazam8 months ago
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Bush ?
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Well ...as shameful as it is to have an Ex-President answer charges of War Crimes it is less shameful to the US than allowing one guilty of them to go Free.
I also think that we should not allow the precedent of others cleaning our House...that's OUR job. Bush should be invited to the Hill to answer a few questions.
As far as Pakistan?
Positive Control to prevent access to any Nuclear Weapon must be maintained.
The people who work on live missiles don't even have Access. Some cat running around with a suitcase bomb is not nearly as likely as somebody seizing a land based missile. We need to make that an issue of serious interest in preventing.
You know somethin' cowboygrandpa ...it shouldn't ever have gotten this way. -
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Endoscopy8 months ago
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orndorffter8 months ago
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You are right justice4All, if he did do wrong he should pay for it and Endo you only want to beleive what you want to, Thaeres nothing wrong with you Endo, for being wrong and calling our president a lier, but he is not lieing I dont care if he is a layer. wake up. Justic you are right. better late then never.
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calitennflo8 months ago
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Good to hear what we know is the truth...the future must behold much more...we the people are the ones that are not getting the benefit of our vote...
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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
Consent, defined:
permission to do something; "he indicated his consent"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
The vote is what grants consent...grant defined:grant - allow: let have(wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn)
Vote defined:express one's preference for a candidate or for a measure or resolution; cast a vote.(wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn)
The Constitution of the United States of America
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constituti...
I easily see what we as individual citizens should be doing...deciding everything voted in the congress...voted as the several States. And this would not be hard at all...with the three numbers 1, 2, and 3...on the phone and emails.
Dispite what Government says about security...we could do it anyway...simply with all having a A USB flash drive ...individually identified. -
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Albmore8 months ago
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slate8 months ago
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donald51Comment removed: Hard Banned
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jimdoze8 months ago
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"President Obama said Wednesday night that waterbarding authorized by former President George W. Bush was torture"
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If that be the case, Mr. President, where is the legislation defining it as such?
A Dishonest Debate
If interrogation laws were so clear, why did Ted Kennedy try to change them?
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YjU2MTY0ODI0N...
"Sen. Ted Kennedy proposed an amendment to the Military Commissions Act (MCA) then under consideration. His measure would, finally, have brought clarity to the legal status of waterboarding. It would have expressly defined the procedure as a violation of Common Article 3 (CA3) of the Geneva Conventions, putting it on a par with “torture” — which is specified in CA3 — and making it punishable as a war crime.
The amendment lost, 46-53. All Democrats except one (Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska) voted in favor. One Republican still in the Senate, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, voted with the Democrats. As a result, while the MCA substantially overhauled the war-crimes statute (Section 2441 of the federal penal code), it did not criminalize waterboarding (to say nothing of less harsh tactics). Nor did Congress touch the torture statutes (Sections 2340 and 2340A, which define and punish torture), much less enact a clarification that waterboarding is torture. The legal status of waterboarding remained exactly what it had been: ambiguous, at best.
This history is significant because Republicans no longer run Congress, like they did back then. Since January 2007, Democrats have been in charge of both houses. At any time they wished, they could have revived the Kennedy Amendment, and passed it. Since January 2009, moreover, Democrats have run not only Congress but the White House. At any time they wished, they could have ended what they call the “false choice between our security and our values” (translation: their considered choice of no security and their values). At any time they wished, they could have settled the debate and passed a law: No more waterboarding.
They haven’t done that. For all the high dudgeon, they won’t do it. And the reason for their reticence is shameful: To clarify the law would be to admit that the law has been unclear. Clarifying law is not the objective, settling political scores is."-
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Charlson8 months ago
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The camouflage of settling political scores just doesn't apply when you talking about the morality and ethics of a government sanctioned torture program. Settling political scores is more of a Republican motivation than a Democrat.
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Tangent0018 months ago
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"If that be the case, Mr. President, where is the legislation defining it as such?"
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TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 113C
Exerpt:
(1) “torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) “severe mental pain or suffering” means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from—
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality; --Emphasis added
That the statute does not specifically identify waterboarding is irrelevant. Waterboarding clearly falls under the definition -
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TheNewsseeker8 months ago
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Call it, what it was, Mr. President! It was high time to do so, but I am glad to hear this. To cause fear for death intentionally is nothing else but torture. This could be another part of a kind of "American Glasnost". I saw on TV yesterday that President Obama will now allow to show pictures of death soldiers, arriving home for their funeral. Mr. Bush willingly held back these scenes for not to risk the "general agreement" to (t)his war. Unfortunately, about 5000 fallen troops have relatives, friends and families, so this policy of restricted information couldn´t work too long ...
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Wolfie20078 months ago
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What difference does it make what Obumya says it's all politics with him. He's an idiot anyway just a tiny bit sharper than the useful idiots who support him. Besides everybody knows O'Bummer's teleprompter and George Soros tell him what to say.
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Endoscopy8 months ago
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Listen to the liberal lies. It does not matter what Obama calls waterboarding. It matters what the law says. Our law is tied to extreme pain or threat of extreme pain, death, etc. Also Bush sent the CIA to congress in 2002 and they briefed all congressmen who wanted to listen. All but 1 endorsed the methods and some asked if harsher methods should be used. So are you going to prosecute all of them except the 1 who objected to the methods. Bush was smart. He obtained the endorsement of congress. They could have blocked them by modifying the torture law. They chose to agree with Bush.
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Liberals never admit to what their policies do to damage the country. The p[olicy for compassion in housing for the poor. CRA and other banking laws were modified to allow the 0% down payment, low starting ARM, no principle for a few years, and no checking the ability to pay for the poor. Going into effect in 1995 the housing bubble was started. Many poor were buying houses they could not afford.Previously Fannie and Freddy required 10% down. In 2003 things were looking bad to some regulators and they went before the House with a report. The Democrats on the Finance Committee accused the regulators of lying and trying to kill GSE's thus sidetracking the changes that might have prevented the bust. Barney Frank said there was no problem at Fannie and Freddy. Now they are a black hole into which tax payer money goes. But it is all Bush's fault.
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FrankHummel8 months ago
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To all the foolish folk who argue that "laying out the details" of the whole torture obscenity will do this country no good, because it would "expose" all of "our" interrogation methods, and that public trials would "cement hatred of the U.S. for generations to come", asking "What, really, would we gain as a nation?":
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I submit that you people who would represent the whole “issue” to each other and yourselves in such a manner HAVE ALREADY MISSED THE BOAT!
The "damage" which you decry HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, AND QUITE A LONG TIME AGO NOW ALREADY! It can be neither "done" nor UN"done" by the people of THIS miscreant nation facing up to ITS MISdeeds!
And indeed, the damage has actually BEEN done by those who COMMMITTED the "actions" which are now the "subject" of the "debate" --- NOT BY THOSE OF “US” WHO WOULD NOW "EXPOSE" THEM! The people who have been the OBJECTS of those "actions", and ALSO a great many other UNINVOLVED observers, are ALREADY WELL AWARE OF THEM! It is, after all, only POLLYANNAS OVER HERE who have been "kept in the dark" (or maybe more accurately, in most cases HAVE DELIBERATELY CHOSEN TO "HIDE" "in the dark"!) --- who are "at risk" of being "influenced" as a consequence of the "disclosure" of WHAT HAVE LONG BEEN ACTUAL REALITIES!-
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Bucotch8 months ago
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I want to know how the hell Obama or anyone else knows that the information could've been obtained by other means. Obama's B.S. is so clear to see. Solid crap with crap gravy. And the defenders of his craps crap is just as plain. Smell it from a mile away. Man I'm tired of this crap. And all the Bush crap is really gettin old too. Come on, give me something. Something that ain't crap. What's up with the Air Force One photo op? Obama, how can you be that stupid and irresponsible? And I'm expected to trust this morons judgement?
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nowaynobama8 months ago
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Don't listen to donald51. He is a liberal sissy boy who like all liberals do not have the balls to defend our country. The theory of not behaving like our enemies sounds cute but in the real world we have do whatever it takes. You liberals make us common sense folk sick with your "blame America mantra BS" How do you libs not understand that terrorists hate our way of life, our drinking,sex,homosexuals, a lot of things libs enjoy. My point being they'd slice off your head in a second so stop looking at their point of view,doing so makes YOU clowns unAmerican ! Your defensive policy for our nation is too weak so stay out of the way and let the real men do there thing. We are not safer by being "compassionate" or "nice" or sympathetic so let our boys do what they have to do ! And there's no way Nobama could possibly know we could have gotten the info by other means. At least they didn't slice their freaking heads off while they were still alive and post it on the internet.This war against terror is on forever whether you like it or not so pick a side traitors !!!
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cowboygrandpa8 months ago
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nowaynobama:
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When and if you are able to remove your head from the dark stinky place it is inserted in now.
You may find out that many Americans who actually fought in the wars are liberal in their beliefs of freedom. They don't believe in a president disregarding the constitution in order to by pass the laws of this great nation we fought for and many died for.
In fact since we are sworn to defend the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic, we kind of get pis*ed off at a moron, who is sworn to uphold the constitution, shredding the constitution to get his way.
But hey don't let a little thing like true patriotism get in the way of your stupidity. Keep on ranting ignorant one. Hahahaaahaaaaaa
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orndorffter8 months ago
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It makes no different how you look at it,torture is torture and that is what happened. Afraid to admitt that the man you keep talking about ,OUR president is telling the truth and it hurts for you to hear the truth. I dont care what you Bush lovers think it's still torture and theres no way around it. face up to the truth for once in your life and maybe life well set you free. if anyone knew and agreed they need to be prosecuted to the fullest. I dont care if it Right or Left someone is going to pay for it . We are Americans and we are not like other countrys. Torture is not a formate that we use, some of you would like it to be, but wake up and smell the roses, if we torure we are no better then those who do, and I would like to think our country is much then better then that. but yet there are some of you who think it's okay to torure and speak bad of our president, well I dont. It well be good to get this all out and over with so America wont have to hang her head down in shame. Yes shame this great country who once had and and all others wanted what we had,but there was none who could come close to be like America, for you's who think its okay to torture you are just as bad as those in the countrys who do torture. We are one Nation under God with liberty and justice for all. Lets not bring this great Nation down to others standerds of living.
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