Top Mormon Leader of the Religious Right Advocates Overthrow of US Government »
Posted By Spadecaller 6 months, 4 weeks ago in ReligionNovelist, professor, and new board member of National Organization for Marriage (NOM) ,Orson Scott, is so outraged about gay marriage, he wants to overthrow the government. Mormon leader of the religious right's top anti-gay marriage organization advocated the criminalization of homosexuality, labeled the US government "our mortal enemy," talked about the "insane Constitution" dying, and then appeared to advocate the overthrow of the US government "by whatever means is made possible or necessary."
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Orson Scott is another right wing religious extremist who is flipping out in reaction to the acceptance of gay rights in the United States. The following commentary is an example of his extremism and homophobia:
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"If America becomes a place where our children are taken from us by law and forced to attend schools where they are taught that cohabitation is as good as marriage, that motherhood doesn't require a husband or father, and that homosexuality is as valid a choice as heterosexuality for their future lives, then why in the world should married people continue to accept the authority of such a government? What these dictator-judges do not seem to understand is that their authority extends only as far as people choose to obey them. How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.
There is no question, absolutely none at all, that you are fighting a battle you can’t win. In a hundred years, flamboyant gay guys will be getting married in fabulous dresses on your grave, and there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it."-
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hyperbola6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Since Obama is pretty much continuing the Bush/Cheney agenda of military imperialism, payoffs to a corrupt financial oligarchy and avoidance of compliance with our constitution, more people should be asking whether they are willing to accept the "authority" of our government.
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Obama's 100 Days - The Mad Men Did Well
The BBC's American television soap Mad Men offers a rare glimpse of the power of corporate advertising. ... Just as Marlboro Man was virility itself, so politicians could be branded, packaged and sold.
It is more than 100 days since Barack Obama was elected president of the US. The “Obama brand” has been named “Advertising Age’s marketer of the year for 2008”.... No one knew what the new brand actually stood for. So accomplished was the advertising that many Americans actually believed Obama shared their opposition to Bush’s wars. In fact, he repeatedly backed Bush’s warmongering and its congressional funding. Many Americans also believed he was the heir to Martin Luther King’s legacy of anti-colonialism. Yet if Obama had a theme at all, apart from the vacuous “Change you can believe in”, it was the renewal of America as a dominant, avaricious bully....
...In his first 100 days, Obama has excused torture, opposed habeas corpus and demanded more secret government, kept Bush’s gulag intact and at least 17,000 prisoners beyond the reach of justice. On 24 April, his lawyers won an appeal that ruled Guantanamo Bay prisoners were not “persons”, and therefore had no right not to be tortured....
All over the world, America’s violent assault on innocent people, directly or by agents, has been stepped up. During the recent massacre in Gaza, “the Obama team let it be known that it would not object to the planned resupply of ‘smart bombs’ and other hi-tech ordnance that was already flowing to Israel” and being used to slaughter mostly women and children. ....
In Afghanistan, the US “strategy” of killing Pashtun tribespeople (the “Taliban”) has been extended by Obama to give the Pentagon time to build a series of permanent bases right across the devastated country where, says Secretary Gates, the US military will remain indefinitely....
Perhaps the biggest lie – the equivalent of smoking is good for you – is Obama’s announcement that the US is leaving Iraq, ..., as many as 70,000 troops will remain “for the next 15 to 20 years”. ... It is not surprising that the polls are showing that a growing number of Americans believe they have been suckered – especially as the nation’s economy has been entrusted to the same fraudsters who destroyed it. Lawrence Summers, Obama’s principal economic adviser, is throwing $3trn at the same banks that paid him more than $8m last year, including $135,000 for one speech.
Change you can believe in.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/30/obama39s... -
libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned6 Replies
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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After the hate crime murder of Matthew Shepard and comments from GOP Congresswoman Foxx, Americans better begin to take these nut-jobs more seriously. Comments of this nature will incite those who already have one foot in the hat factory to take their guns out and use them on those they perceive as their enemies.
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hyperbola6 months, 4 weeks ago
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What should we do about American zionists who preach hatred of christians and moslems in Palestine? To the point that millions of christians and moslems have been/are being ethnic cleansed for a racist, totalitarian ideology.
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The US, Israel and Racism: Face to face with history
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/30/the-us-i...
The UN conference on racism confronted western countries with difficult truths – but that’s no reason for anyone to walk out.
Only one international body can lay claim to a semblance of democracy: the United Nations. All the other organisations that regard themselves as global – the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the World Trade Organisation – are creations of the west and their power structures reflect that fact. This is the reason why the United States has always had a troubled relationship with the UN; it is the one organisation where it is not assured of getting its own way. On the contrary, it often finds itself hugely outnumbered, resolutions on the Middle East and Israel being a classic trigger. That, rather than being strapped for cash, is why the US has always been so reluctant to pay its dues. So, it was no surprise to find the US boycotting this year’s UN World Conference against Racism in Geneva...
The flashpoint at this conference – and, indeed, the previous one – has been Israel and its attitude towards the Palestinians. Given that Israel has been central to US foreign policy in a region that has been its greatest priority, it was entirely predictable that the Americans would seek to prevent criticism of either themselves or the Israelis.
In fact, the Israelis offer a sad example of the intractable and ubiquitous nature of racism. After the horrific suffering of the Jews during the Holocaust, the west sought to salve its conscience by taking land from the Palestinians, in an area that had been colonised by the European powers, and using it to help establish the Zionist state of Israel. The latter has, unfortunately, always borne many of the characteristics of a transplant, and was bitterly resented by those whose land was stolen. At the same time, Israel identified itself with the west, to which it looked for sustenance and protection, never seeking to establish a modus vivendi with its neighbours.
.... The way many Arabs in Israel are treated as second-class citizens, and the brutality and cruelty shown during the Israeli assault on Gaza early this year, are eloquent testimony to the racism endemic in Israel. It is ironic that a people who suffered from racism on such an enormous scale should themselves display the same kind of attitude towards the Palestinians and their neighbours. It suggests that people do not necessarily learn from their history; and that those who have suffered so grievously may themselves even be particularly vulnerable to the same way of thinking as a result of their experiences. -
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mesodude6 months, 4 weeks ago
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I just think it's really funny how cons thought the ballot box (especially when backed up by right wing activist judges) was the final word when it came to starting "revolutions." Obama bests Bush's 2000 "mandate" many millions of times over but this does not impress them. Wow. ;-)
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jordan116 months, 4 weeks ago
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Well many have known all along that the crazy religious fanatics were trying to infiltrate government and initiate a takeover. And many have known that the extremists in the republican party promised them a theocracy for their votes. So this comes as no surprise at all.
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hyperbola6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Crazy religious fanatics infiltrated our government (and media) long ago. Politicians in both parties have gone along with this for personal payoffs.
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Pelosi the Israel-First Hawk
Reports by international human rights groups and from within Israel in recent weeks have revealed the massive scale of war-crimes and other violations of international humanitarian law, committed by Israeli forces during their three-week offensive against the Gaza Strip earlier this year. Despite this, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi has steadfastly stood by her insistence that the U.S.-backed Israeli government has no legal or moral responsibility for the tragic consequence of the war.
This is just one episode in a long history of efforts by Pelosi to undermine international humanitarian law, in regards to actions by a country she has repeatedly referred to as America's most important ally in the Middle East. It's also part of her overall right-wing agenda in the Middle East. As the powerful Speaker of the House, Pelosi could very well undermine efforts by President Barack Obama in the coming years to moderate U.S. policy toward that volatile region....
...Pelosi has supported strict economic sanctions and even threats of military force against Middle Eastern governments targeted by the Bush administration — such as Iraq under Saddam Hussein, Iran, or Syria — that were slow in complying with UN Security Council resolutions. Yet she has never publicly called on Israel to abide by any of the dozens of Security Council resolutions on international humanitarian law, illegal annexation of militarily-occupied territory, or nuclear proliferation with which that government remains in material breech. In Pelosi's worldview, a country's obligations to comply with the UN Charter and UN Security Council resolutions depend not on objective international legal standards but on their relations with the United States....
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/30/pelosi-t...
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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It certainly is bordering closely on sedition - from my understanding.
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I find it quite revealing about those who drop a story like this; obviously they are supportive of these nut-jobs who call for the overthrow of our government... or their hatred for the messenger of the story trumps their support of extremist religous nuts. Perhaps they are the very kind that would blame the gay victim, Matthew Shepherd, for his homosexuality and would condone the hate murder that took his life.
More homophobic religious extremists have become violent in recent years; and understandably, it is becoming a concern for most level headed Americans.
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CRYMTYPHON6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Orson Scott Card is the author of a few good sci-fi
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books, (and several very bad ones).
His best was 'Ender's Game', a classic.
He is not a shallow person;
but is ultimately loyal to his Mormon dogma.
Mormons never had that much use for the US anyway.
Conservatives can not wave the flag in our faces
telling us of the supremacy of patriotism
when they are in charge,
- and grumble sedition when they are not.
Well, not and be taken more seriously than
science fiction, anyway. -
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aceofspades16 months, 4 weeks ago
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Simon - redneck - prophy - by dropping the post. does that mean you are in favor of overthrowing the US government by means other than the ballot ?? or does it mean that you are so homophobic that you would support sedition to further your agendas?
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libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned4 Replies
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pokydoke6 months, 4 weeks ago
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There seems to be a fairly vocal contingent of people in this country that would like to deny rights to some of our citizens. Free speech is one thing and I would not like to silence anyone but violent overthrow of our government because they feel threatened by a small minority is ludicrous. Judging by the poll numbers, more people are accepting of same sex marriage than ever before. Usually the fringe yells the loudest when they are losing traction in public opinion.
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libsRfunnyComment removed: Hard Banned2 Replies
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crespi6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Interesting.
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American law FORBIDS the government taking over a church...UNLESS SAID CHURCH DECLARES WAR ON THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
Nuke Salt Lake City? A preemptive surgical strike on the Mormon Tabernacle maybe?
I hope they call on ME to do some of the waterboarding...-
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RedstateLib6 months, 4 weeks ago
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"Nuke Salt Lake City?"
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Hey wait, I am currently in SLC, so I would prefer you not do that. Besides SLC is where the progressives live in Utah. Read "Blue Grit". There are Obama stickers on cars all over here. So leave SLC alone and go after the wingnuts directly.
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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about Orson Scott Card:
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"In response to the launch of the Carrie Prejean ad campaign against marriage equality, People For the American Way president Michael Keegan issued the following statement:
“If the National Organization for Marriage wants to make the comments of a gossip columnist and a beauty queen the subject of a national debate, then it should answer for the bizarre and troubling remarks of its most prominent board member – best-selling science fiction writer Orson Scott Card.
“The NOM has argued that it is not a homophobic organization, but Card’s remarks suggest otherwise. Card, who represents the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on the board and received an effusive welcome last week from NOM president Maggie Gallagher, supports criminalizing sex between same-sex adults:
Laws against homosexual behavior should remain on the books…to be used when necessary to send a clear message that those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior cannot be permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens.
“Card has also advocated overthrowing the government if same-sex marriage is permitted:
CONTINUED...-
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Ormon Scott Card: "How long before married people answer the dictators thus: Regardless of law, marriage has only one definition, and any government that attempts to change it is my mortal enemy. I will act to destroy that government and bring it down, so it can be replaced with a government that will respect and support marriage, and help me raise my children in a society where they will expect to marry in their turn.
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Biological imperatives trump laws. American government cannot fight against marriage and hope to endure. If the Constitution is defined in such a way as to destroy the privileged position of marriage, it is that insane Constitution, not marriage, that will die.
“It is one thing for a science fiction writer to have such views, but it’s something much different for a national organization like the NOM to endorse those views by giving Card such a prominent position on its board. We call on the NOM to categorically reject Card’s radical statements.”
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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This maniac believes that gay people are "those who flagrantly violate society's regulation of sexual behavior" -- that they should not be "permitted to remain as acceptable, equal citizens."
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That is insane and dangerous; the fact that he was given a position as a member of the board of directors of NOM should be a wake up call. His dangerous threat to overthrow the government and his insistence that gays should not have equal rights will influence some people who will not have the need to restrain themselves from acts of violence. The writing on the wall is there for anyone to see.-
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Natureboy6 months, 4 weeks ago
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The mormon church, how well-situated are they to criticize the sexual misconduct of others? This is the church to join if you're 70 years old and want to get arranged "marriages" and knock up a dozen or two scarcely post-pubescent young girls.
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What does it do to the "sanctity of marriage" when marriage becomes a cloak for pedophilic polygamy?
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CHAM6 months, 4 weeks ago
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And Natureboy, I think my history shows that the Mormon Church has been at War with the United States back in the 1850's. It was that imminent war that led to the Mountain Meadows Mormon Massacre on September 11, 1857 ( another 9/11).
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The Mormons weren't too moral to murder around 140 men,women, and children on that day and strip the bodies of clothing and leave them to the elements. So Card's morality and the NOM rings a little hollow.
I have been privileged to visit the Grave Site of one Captain James Lynch, the hero who led 51 volunteers to the rescue of the 17 young girls who were being held captive in a Mormon Fort. These girls were the only survivors of that massacre.
I visited the grave site when I found that Captain Lynch and his wife, Sarah (Dunlap) Lynch,one of the survivors, was buried in a small cemetery about 7 blocks from my home.
I couldn't care less about lifestyle, but I think that it is wrong to recognize as a marriage, the declaration of two people of the same sex. I wonder under this rule, could I marry my Grandson to get medical coverage?
Hyper is right to condemn the immoral treatment the Palestinian people are subjected to and it seems Obama has adopted the very things people voted for him because of his promise of change.
Our Country has been overtaken by a Two Headed Monster, A Republican Head and the other A Democrat Head. The brains of the two headed monster is external but guides the thoughts of both heads.
We need to do something about this monster.
This country needs change, not any change, but a new direction toward moral and ethical Governance. Neither party is going to let the people have that so if we really want change we need to form our own party and send the others off to the dust bin of history.-
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most_reasonable6 months, 4 weeks ago
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"Hyper is right to condemn the immoral treatment the Palestinian people are subjected to and it seems Obama has adopted the very things people voted for him because of his promise of change."
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Perhaps they are subject to brutalization, however:
Hamas Murder Campaign In Gaza Exposed: Human Rights Group
he terrorist organization Hamas has allegedly killed and tortured dozens of people accused of being "collaborators" with Israel, according to the Guardian. It states that the killings occurred during and after the recent war in Gaza.
Amnesty International reports that many of the abducted victims were killed and then dumped in isolated areas or found in hospital morgues.
Hamas gunmen have shot dead at least two dozen men since the end of December last year. In the same period, scores of others have been shot in the legs, subjected to severe beatings which caused multiple fractures and other injuries, or otherwise tortured or ill-treated, according to evidence given to Amnesty International.
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Whether or not one opposes or supports equal rights for all people without stipulations on sexual preference, which by the way should not be the business of government to decide, that is not the primary thrust presented in this story.
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Where does anyone get off using this issue as an excuse to abandon the constitution of the United States and to call for the overthrow of the government by any means necessary?
As usual there are those that attempt to use this story as a platform to promote the plight of the Palestinians and their hatred for the state of Israel, but again this has nothing to do with the issue of condemning the constitution and the nation because one is opposed to equal rights.
For those fixated on the Palestinian issue like Cham and Hyper, it would certainly be more appealing to many of us if they posted their own stories on that topic -- and then leave it up to the members of Propeller to decide whether or not they want to participate in that discussion.
However, exploiting or spamming unrelated topics where its discussion is not a relevant issue does more to deter from the respect of their opinions. -
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Icantwait6 months, 4 weeks ago
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My Fellow Americans: One fact is clear and that is this country is doomed. It seems no one wants the same thing as the other person. One person wants this to be a country of Gay People only, another person wants this to be a country of Peace Freaks only, someone else wants this to be a country Terrorist only, yes, and yet another person want this country to be a country of Alien Criminals. It appears that no one wants this country to be what the founding fathers hoped it would forever be until the end of time. A Country where its' inhabitants were Free of Government Oppression. A Country of Religious Morality where people could worship whatever religion they pleased. A Country where its' Citizens could be whatever they aspired to be within the parameters of certain law abiding principles. A Country that could be an example for the entire World to pattern their own Countries after and prosper. We were achieving those goals and seemed to have accomplished a utopia that everyone world wide wanted to be part of and bask in. Well! Maybe we overstepped our bonds because everyone is now here and our Country is deteriorating at a far than normal pace. Our written laws and regulations are being ignored. We have eliminated or in the process of eliminating most of our jobs and well know business. We are constantly bickering about Democrats did this and Republicans did that, or Yankees versus Red Sox type conversations. Our Freedoms are being taken away on a daily basis, such as the monitoring of our vocabulary, the politically correct which is actually incorrect most of the time. Can't smoke, Can't drink in public places, Can't hire who you want to hire, Certain people can't discriminate, Can't drive the car you want, basically just can't be an American. So, I'm saying maybe it is time for our President to have his way and make this a Communist Country. At least when the Government don't want a person to be Gay that person will be executed. When the Government don't like what you say you will be shot. When the Government don't want you to read a certain book or books they will be destroyed. When the Government don't want you to follow a certain Religion it will be banned and practicing it will be means for execution. When the Government wants to maintain its' borders invaders will be machine gunned down. Alright then let's go for Communism. The Real American
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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"Icantwait"
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It certainly appears that way."The Real American" is suffering from delusions of grandeur.
"It seems no one wants the same thing as the other person. One person wants this to be a country of Gay People only, another person wants this to be a country of Peace Freaks only, someone else wants this to be a country Terrorist only, yes, and yet another person want this country to be a country of Alien Criminals."
What an absurd hypothesis. Show me some proof that any gays want this country to be only gay. Show me. Show me what makes you think the "peace freaks" want to exclude anyone. And who are these "alien criminals". Are "they" Mexican?
Here is a perfect example of a homophobic, xenophobic, nicotine addict, and reactionary who thinks he is one of the few if not the only "real American." You need help, pal.
Suggestion: Lithium and intense psycho-therapy to address your bi-polar disorder. -
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THOMNH626 months, 4 weeks ago
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come on people this is not the national debate team, you do not have to write a feakin essay. This guy is obviously on the fringe and no more represents the republican party as Farakhan represents the left. The social issue of gay marriage is debatable but in the end it should not be decided by fruit cakes on either side.
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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THOMNH62
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This "Card" does represent the remaining base of the party. Rush Limbaugh, who wants to see the President fail and who is the unofficial spokesman of the GOP, Michele Bachman, a Republican Congresswoman also calling for the overthrow of the government, Congressman Foxx calling the hate crime and murder of Matthew Shepherd "a hoax", and governor Rick Perry entertaining the secession of Texas from the union -- these are not the fringe of the GOP; they are the Gop. Arlen Specter said it well: "I didn;t abandon the Republican party, they left me when they moved to the far right."
Who is kidding who? The GOP has become an extremist party that caters to the likes of Orson Scott Card, hate groups, homophobics, and religious extremists.
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Spadecaller6 months, 4 weeks ago
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I was quite clear about my point; apparently you missed it. Try reading the article; that might help.
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Millions of centrist and mainstream Republicans have fled from the party for a good reason. I'm not surprised that you are unaware of those reasons.
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CHAM6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Spade. There is a branch of the GOP trying to reform the GOP and take it in a new direction. They actually are trying to form a "New" party. Might not be called Republican in its Final format.
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It is being formed for several reasons not the least of which is that this growing group realizes that the current Republican Party is bordering on insanity.
They realize that all the "You're another" and "Dems are worse" is just not cutting the mustard. They realize that the Rush ditto crowd now forms the solid core of the old GOP. They realize what a cruel joke this is on those Republicans who really are decent people, and there are many of them.
This new party realizes that with only 21% of the people admitting that they are Republican is another red flag that the GOP is sinking fast.
I have been calling for an end to the Republican Party for some time. Bringing an end to that Party by shunning them and never voting for a Republican Candidate again.
I chose the Republican Party simply because they were out of power. I believe Independents who are the majority electorate in the United States should be forming a Coalition Party to replace the defunct GOP. Then once that party is viable go after the Democrats if they haven't seen the light and changed their act.
What Americans must do is take back their Government from the One World Group before the hole gets any deeper.
Now this Article was about the Mormon leader who calls for rebellion against the Government because of the stance on gay rights. What I'm looking for are laws that apply equally to everyone. That shouldn't be any deviation from what was left by our founding fathers. They knew tyranny, they lived under it. They knew what was needed to oppose tyranny. Above all what was needed was the freedom to be equal.
Sorry about this being so long.
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