Comments for Adventures in conformity, GOP-style »
Posted By scott4261 7 months, 2 weeks ago in Political NewsJohn Young, Waco Tribune-Herald
Tuesday, May 05, 2009
When Sen. Arlen Specter left the Republican Party for the Democrats last week, “good riddance” was uttered near and far, particularly on the AM radio dial.
Specter was a RINO —Republican in Name Only — said partisan puritans. He was pro-choice. He supported the Obama stimulus package. The party is stronger for the purging of him and his ilk, they said.
Yes. And a team that’s stubby-legged and pasty-faced will reach the NBA finals.
Actually, the correct answer: no. The GOP is not stronger. In fact, it’s a lot weaker, and not just because a skinny-legged senator with much seniority took his game elsewhere.
It’s weaker because of Rush Limbaugh. It’s weaker because of Karl Rove. It’s weaker because of rhetorical bombs and bombast. It’s weaker because warring words, rather than consensus-seeking actions, have come to define it.
While the Democrats have a speechwriter’s dream, Barack Obama, serving as their face, and the nation’s, the increasingly minority party has the cigar-chomping Limbaugh serving as its own.
Obama projects hope and competence. Limbaugh projects bile and comeuppance.
While Obama projects healing and inclusiveness, Limbaugh thrives on divisiveness and innuendo (yeah, let’s blame illegal aliens for an alien strain of flu, if we can’t blame Democrats).
Once upon a time in politics, this worked. Wedge issues did their job. That’s why Rove had a job in the White House.
Increasingly, these days, wedge issues simply drive centrists away.
Specter long was a target for refusing to play the hyperbole games of the religious right. If you aren’t for banning abortion, something most Americans say they don’t want to do, then you are “pro-abortion.”
Actually, most polls show Republicans are decidedly ambivalent about how far they want government to go relative to reproductive rights.
If you think gays and lesbians have human rights by virtue of being human, then you “want to tear down the family,” says the GOP party line.
Say what you will, but a recent Washington Post poll found that 49 percent of Americans support gay marriage (a 13 percent surge over three years), compared to 46 percent who don’t.
A poll by the same paper found only 21 percent of Americans identifying themselves as Republicans. Maybe the Republicans need to identify themselves with other things.
They didn’t identify themselves with fiscal responsibility when they were in a position to act it out in Washington. They put tax cuts and military spending first, and everything else last.
Now they’re talking about debt and runaway spending. But when in a position to do something about it, they pooh-poohed deficits. They were like CEOs of leveraged businesses who were turning just enough profit to keep their bonuses coming.
Meanwhile, the Roves and the Limbaughs kept hammering at those old wedge issues — immigration, abortion, gay rights — and more and more political moderates who once felt comfortable in the Republican Party started feeling queasy.
For the lack of someone to lead it away from its baser impulses, the party of Eisenhower, Goldwater, Dirksen, Rockefeller and Taft has become the party of Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly, Beck and Boortz.
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memestryker7 months, 2 weeks ago
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IMO, those who have hijacked the Republican party are themselves either brainwashed in religious doctrine, caught up in rigid cultural convention, or opportunists who see a way to manipulate others for personal gain.
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Conservatism has been sidelined.
I hope the extremists don't retain power in the Republican party. I was saddened to see organizations like the Discovery Institute and the Creationism Museum come into being at great expense to members of the party, spending all that money to market doctrine to the naive and gullible, and I was very sorry to see President Bush's anti-science policy, that mirrored it.
But we've seen other countries with progressive societies fall to radical forms of Islam, so there's no reason to think a Paulist form of Christianity couldn't spread through fear and intimidation in the same manner.
It's as if civilization itself is teetering on the edge, and most people have learned to turn to the supernatural for comfort and they are terrified to let it go and face Reality.
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Spadecaller7 months, 2 weeks ago
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GOP (Grand Obsolesce Party) will have to be completely redefined if it expects to garner enough votes to maintain their current roster of politicians. In fact, they will even have to change their platform and maybe even their party's name, now that they have abandoned the party to the extremist ideologies of Limbaugh and Hannity.
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Endoscopy7 months, 2 weeks ago
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The extreme views are the ones held by the far left that think that spending trillions in deficit spending is OK after railing truthfully about Bush deficits of an average of over $200 billion. This includes you Spadecaller. Your party is doing what they ran against. All the talk in the election talking about fiscal responsibility has gone out the window.
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I think it is hilarious that Sen. Specter became a Democrat and after a few things he said and did they stripped him of his seniority after Reid promised that would not happen. Real truth tellers the Democrats are.-
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ADAGUY7 months, 2 weeks ago
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You so conveniently forget that the current spending is being done in an attempt to correct the downward trend in the current economy.
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However the spending during the Bush administration was largely just an attempt to line the pockets of the Good Old Boys Party. -
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PapaWolf7 months, 2 weeks ago
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endo,
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I've asked you, & many others on these threads over the past couple months...
Since no one else is hiring or spending - even WITH the tax cuts to the wealthiest citizens & largest corps, exactly who else besides the gov't CAN or WILL spend & CAUSE TO BE HIRED in this economy?
& remember, we've had 20 of the past 28 years doing the "trickle-down" & deregulation BS. See where it's gotten us?
PLEASE, someone who NOW opposes deficit spending -even / ESPECIALLY those who were adamantly supportive of it during the last administration - PLEASE (I'm begging you) answer calmly, quietly, & most importantly, logically.... -
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sinophil497 months, 2 weeks ago
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endo - Your math is all screwy. The national debt, after 8 years of Bush, rose to about 9.8 trillion dollars, a rise of over 4 trillion dollars. The budget deficit of 2009 alone is 410 billion dollars. While the entire budget of 2009 signed by Bush is 3.1 trillion dollars.
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So a rise of over 4 trillion dollars in national debt over 8 years averages out to 500 billion per year.
I do not know what the official average budget deficit per year under Bush was. However, most of the funding for the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars was NOT included in the official yearly federal budget. Most of the funding was achieved through emergency supplemental spending bills that Bush muscled thru congress.
Thus the yearly official budget deficits was kept artificially low. Oh, and there were the usual budget shenanigans like borrowing from the Social Security funds to decrease the official deficit, when actually that INCREASES the deficit.
I am not saying that I am happy about Obama's budget. However, the total budget of 3.4 trillion is not that far off of Bush's budget of 3.1 trillion for the current fiscal year. Moreover, it was Bush's mishandling and the financial crisis he precipitated that necessitated much of Obama's stimulus package and deficit spending.
To summarize, your claim of an average of 200 billion deficit under Bush is ridiculously low (ie., a lie). Furthermore, he imposed the cost of the immoral Iraq invasion and this financial collapse on our country that will hurt us for generations to come. -
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bigG7 months, 2 weeks ago
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The National Debt doubled under Bush from around $ 5 trillion to around $ 10 trillion. Your figure of $ 200 billion would be well short of that as you conveniently forget the "off budget" spending.
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I wish I could pull that nonsense and buy a Lamborghini "off budget". -
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memestryker7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Many Democrats do champion extension of socialism beyond my own comfort zone as a default. And it's true that, budget-wise, we see the Dems operating similarly to the Reagan administration in putting forth a budget that seems unfathomable to most of us--but it is designed to jumpstart the economy, as it was then.
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I agree that the Dems were unfair to Specter. He gave them the biggest gift of his career, and they broke their promises.
I'm so underwhelmed by the politics and ethics of both parties that I think we need some fresh ones.
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Poulenc7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Well, clearly, it's time to go back to the drawing board for the Grand Old Party.
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Unfortunately, fear-'n'-smear is a political MO with long, long legs.
Incomprehensible--yet completely understandable to me--is the fuss already being made about the possibility of O. picking a gay candidate for the SC.
Oh, the horror! Oh, the fear, already being stirred by conservs and other true 'muricans everywhere. -
rally-monkeyComment removed: Abusive11 Replies
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Jaydee407 months, 2 weeks ago
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What is clear is that Americans only care about appearance and not facts. Yes it's great the GOP are gone but what has the new leader done to fix the country? Real issues like run away Military spending and an out of control CIA, or an outrageous trade unbalance. How about war crimes committed by a government he now heads? No MR Obamma is not a man of substance either, just a white washer. How about the fact that no American has stood trial for their part in not stopping 911 when it's on record they had knowledge it was going to happen? Americans are in denial but their beloved Republic is a tragic Failure.
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StevieGee7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Jaydee, "Real issues like run away Military spending and an out of control CIA, or an outrageous trade unbalance. How about war crimes committed by a government he now heads?"
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None of this existed before January? You can't possibly blame ANY of these things on Obama. ALL of these things are the result of the Bush government. (and even before that) Obama has worked very hard and will continue to do so. Bush would have been on his eighth vacation by now. The wheels in Washington turn slowly, give him time.-
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Jaydee407 months, 2 weeks ago
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Everything mentioned existed before January, I didn't say Obama created it but that people are blind if the think Obama will fix any of it. He is a poster child and the real power brokers have no desire to make changes in the country. We can beat Bush all we want but that doesn't get things fixed does it? Answer this if you can, why does one country need to spend more money that the rest of the world combined on their military? Also where does that money come from when that country imports much more than they export plus the fact they don't have enough necessities to look after their own needs.
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Now also how about the fact that the US government tried service men who used water boarding in Viat Nam and even law officials in mainland USA but now that same government is trying to debate if it's even torture, WTF-
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StevieGee7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Maybe I'm blind then because Obama seems to be about the hardest working man I've ever seen. It took Bush with a friendly (or at least ineffective) Congress 8 years to create these problems and you're not impressed with progress after 4 months? He wants to, and should, take his time and get it right. Keep the faith.
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Jaydee407 months, 2 weeks ago
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It takes no time to press charges against those who blatantly broke the law. It would take no time to stop the BS wars in the middle east, hell even stop telling the lies about them would be a start. Nothing has changed yet nor is it going to. The same people are calling the shots so why would they?
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mesodude7 months, 2 weeks ago
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" Americans are in denial but their beloved Republic is a tragic Failure."
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--If you expect in just over 100 days that Obama (or any President) could repair the damage that's been done to our country in the last 8 years alone, you're extremely unrealistic. You cannot be serious. Of course Americans know their country is in trouble. But intelligent Americans realize that a plan in a death spiral has to be stabilized before it can land safely or whatever. ;-( -
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Gransater7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Their beloved Republic is a tragic failure.............
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I disagree with you! If the republic were a failure, the majority of voters would have continued their silence and not exercised their right to vote for a change. A republic lives, not as an entity of its own, but as a reflection on the general populance, and their participation and approval. Thus, I say the republic is alive and well, and americans, woken up from years of "eigther you're with us, or you are against us" syndrome, are anything but in denial.
The greatest societies in history, have allways existed with eighter the tacit approval of its people, or it existed by direct approval of its people. Once that approval is lost, the societies have generally fallen into despair. So it will be with current administration, and, by extension the republic.
How can you possibly say that the Republic is a failure? If anything we are stronger, we are engaged in mutual exchange of ideas, both foreign and domestic, and as aresult arriving at a mutual consensus on a number of issues. Granted, these aren't allways the best from one or the other point of view, and even from both points of view, but, establishing some ground to work from sure is a lot better than the idea vacuum we experienced for a number of years. It can't allways be a one sided relationship. Is the Republic a failure, because it changed course, and you disagree with present direction? If you disagree, come up with viable alternatives to things you don't agree with, that would benefit everyone.
It seems you are unhappy that some issues haven't been dealt with appropiate expedience. What may be of importance to you, may have to take the backseat to more important issues, such as unraveling the mess we currently find ourselves in, something we all played a part in creating. Nonetheless many a issue needs to be dealt with, and 100 or so days is somewhat a short period to clear the perceived slate you carry. In due time, when some stability has been achieved, we can turn attention to the, for the Republic's future stability, issues that led us down a path we should have avoided. What makes us great, is that we CAN learn from the past, and thus remain the great place we are. It's called progress, and it touches more than economic issues. It touches the very soul of what we are about. It touches us in unseen ways, that makes us carry our heads up in pride. This is why I disagree with you. Personally I would never call our Republic a failure. Doing so, is to give up on the very essence of what it means to be an American!-
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Jaydee407 months, 2 weeks ago
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The Republic is a failure because the rule of law has not been upheld. If the executive branch is not held accountable then the country is not upholding the constitution and without that everything is a lie. No sir there is no new sherif in town, sorry to break it to you.
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Gransater7 months, 2 weeks ago
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I believe you are wrong. So long as someone stands up and questions what is happening, the Republic lives. The failure lies in us, for failing to uphold the law, as you point out. So long as there is someone who believes in what's wrong and right the Republic lives, weakened at times, I give you, but not as a lie, and or failure.
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Once the general sentiment of the Republic as a failure, or a lie, takes hold, that is the day we, as a united nation will start the descend into oblivion, something I refuse to believe eighter left or right would want.
Sherif's are elected, but, just as important, sherifs are suported by their community. If that ceases, then there is, for practical porposes, no sherif. That means anarki reigns, or is soon to follow, and by implication, no Republic. If that's what you are looking at, I give that at times it seems that is the road we are headed. Believe, me, I've lived through two revolutions outside the US, and you really don't want that to happen here. Like they say, It aint purdy.-
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Jaydee407 months, 2 weeks ago
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Gransater7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Yes I can.
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Will that reduce the suffering that has been caused in the past? Will it right the wrongs that has been commited? Will it bring a clean slate to the table? What positive will it create, all this suffering you are advocating? What kind of suffering are you advocating? Shall I go on?
Your statement is rather disturbing. It's the kind of statement that has the potential to perpetuate not only wrongs, but also hatred, divisiness and shortsigthedness. What is your ultimate goal with that sentiment? Are you open to a discourse, or are you only interested in continued conflict by whatever means, whith what goal in your sight? To me, it appears that your goal in the continuance of conflict, for the sake of violence in itself, something that so far has been destructive in terms of human relations, quality of life, harmony, and yes, economic prosperity for all parties involved. If you think that the sufering you aluding to has been one sided, I submit you are wrong. Very few acts of man have the inherent ability to destroy what educated people deem humanity, as armed conflict. To wish for a status quo in this is to show disregard not only for your enemy, but also for your loved ones, and I include your society in that statement.
I tell you what, you tell me, and I'm certain, many others following this thread are wondering aswell, why we should suffer, what purpose it would serve, other than vengeance.-
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Jaydee407 months, 2 weeks ago
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EDUCATION, let americans know the misery they as a nation have spread throughout the world. My statement is that they have been sheltered from the very violence they have brought to so many other countries in the past 50 years. Maybe if the felt the very pain they caused they would stop their greedy attempt at trying to control other regions of the world and let local people decide local issues. It seems that Americans don't have the simple morals do decide what is right or wrong for them selves so the need help, if you know another way I'm open.
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Gransater7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Education...
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I agree that further education is needed, however, lumping in the general populance as a whole I feel is incorrect. The fault, as allways, lies in the hands of few, who have the ability to order others to do their bidding. It is a historical fact that there are allways the few that causes the great harm. The general populance follows, if not by default, but very often out of shear necessity, and or fear. Punishing a whole country because the greed and errors of few, would, in itself be wrong. On a side bar, assuming you could punish the whole country, you would, by default, also be punishing the whole world, albeit by a lesser degree. By this I mean that the entire world is so intertwined at present, that anything that happens in the US, also affects the whole planet. To put it in other words, "the duck pond" has shrunk considerably to use a Swedish expression.
There has been many wrongs, in historical terms, commited by several countries, that have never been put right. I agree with you that education is needed, although I disagree with the method. It has to be constructive, and it has to have meaning. Using force all to often results in the opposite effect from the desired outcome. Like you, I'm open to workable solutions, but unfortunately I think they lie in something we call progress and evolution. In the meanwhile, we'll have to deal with each situation as it comes. Not a good one, but the one we currently have.-
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Jaydee407 months, 1 week ago
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"Punishing a whole country because the greed and errors of few, would, in itself be wrong."
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Sorry but America did not feel that way with Germans after WW2 did they? And America claims to be a nation run by the people so the people take blame in the wrongs of the government as well.-
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Gransater7 months, 1 week ago
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I guess you are right.
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After WW2 we punished the Germans by helping them rebuild their country, and by holding a tribunal in Nurnberg, where we tried a select few citizens of that country for war crimes.
Is this what you are refering to??
You appear hellbent on punishment. Are you as enthusiastic about making sure these wrongs never are repeated, by using some other method that may have a better chance of being learned, rather than perpetuating negatives?-
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Gransater7 months, 1 week ago
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If you mean that the election of a new president, with new ideas from the last eight, isn't realizing that something was wrong, then I submit that you are the one with wrong ideas. I'm sure the majority of voters feel frustrated that things aren't changing fast enough, but don't loose hope yet. Give it time to work.
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As to being kind............., your attitude is exactly what I'm trying to convey to you. At some point in time, someone has to take the high road and stop all vindictivness, just for the sake of revenge. Revenge in itself has a nasty habit of consuming those afflicted by it. The orientals have a filosophy of harmony. Harmony creates peace with one self. What you are looking for, lesson, revenge, eye for an eye etc, whatever you call it, takes away harmony from your life. YOU tell me, when does it all end, this revenge it appears you are seeking. It has nothing to do with kindness. It has all to do with how I want to live, mentally. It does not mean that I'm oblivious to what has happened. I can't change the past, but I can work to change the future. If that doesnt work for you, you have my sympathy, as it appears you walk through a life filled with torment and discord. It's your choice as to how you decide to be. Me, I refuse to take that burden.-
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Jaydee407 months ago
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Stop blowing smoke to cover the facts. The US is guilty of breaking international law and must stand trial in international court for torture, crimes against humanity and war crimes. Now the new government has shown contempt for international law just as much as the past one. If someone breaks the law which is it you demand, justice or revenge?
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Since it was a military invasion on two countries not at war with the US and with out the UN's approval in Iraq's case and lies in an unprecedented case in Afghanistan the US should have a cap placed on their military abilities just as other Aggressor nations have in the past. But here is the issue really at hand, since the US has used money not from their reported budgets to build the largest military in the world who polices them? So for now they snub their nose at the world thinking nobody can harm them but history shows it will not last forever.
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Endoscopy7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Silly liberal. One of the big rants going on before the election is the fiscal policy of big deficits that were bankrupting the government. And what is this president and congress doing? Making Bush look like a miser. You liberals are being shown for the hypocrites that you are. Hardly any of you are upset over trillion dollar deficits going on forever. Mortgaging our great great grandchildren and making the country bankrupt in a very real sense.
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Tangent0017 months, 2 weeks ago
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There is a difference in the WAY the money is being spent. A war economy is losing proposition in today's world. Spending money ON America keeps the money IN America.
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Japan recovered from its economic meltdown by replacing private spending with public spending.
I'm not saying I'm fully confident the plan will work, but what was the alternative? More tax cuts? How is decreasing revenue NOT going to increase the deficit?-
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Jaydee407 months, 2 weeks ago
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The current economic problems have their roots going back to Ronnie Ray Gun's military spending, the US simply does not have the money to out spend the rest of the world. People thought that it was lack of desire that stopped aid after the hurricane, it was lack of resources.
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skyking2p7 months, 2 weeks ago
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The Grand and Wonderful leader of the GOP. The one they all look up to for guidance and inspiration. Some press from the past: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/29/us/29limbaugh.ht...
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vor7 months, 2 weeks ago
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I don't think this dinosaur of a party is as weak as suggested. While Limbaugh represents a pathetic minority that could never elect a national candidate, when you take the various branches of the GOP and independents they still add up to a sizeable number. For while you may have plenty of hangers on to the likes of Bob Barr and Ron Paul these people will vote Republican any time it appears a Democrat may win. The Republicans real problem in '08 was the lack of an inspiring candidate or message. They just couldn't get behind McCain and Palin came along a little late in the game. And the economic collapse could not have come at a more opportune moment for the Democrats. And the Dems had this spectacular rising star Obama running. McCain would have beaten Kerry or Gore but he couldn't overcome Obama and the optimism he brought to the Democrats. That optimism will be incredibly difficult to repeat in '10 or '12 but it is the negativity of the GOP that should ensure continued Democratic rule.
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But beware, this is politics and public perception can always change in specific circumstances such as economic stagnation. Lest we not forget who promoted the greed and deregulation that brought us to the current predicament. And who was actually in control, making policy. It certainly wasn't the Democrats no matter how hard these pundits try to spin it. They cannot change reality as much as they may try. -
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vettenut7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Typical bilgewater from the transparently left-wing media cheerleaders!
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Anybody want to talk about the "big-tent philosophy" of the Democrats, the party of "divide and conquer?" When was the last time a prominent Dem spoke out against abortion? LOL!!! If you don't agree with the left-wing philosophy of the Dems, you are not given a voice, let along mentioned by the MSM, who want to portray the Dems as "one big happy family."
There, now all you leftists can "go to town" negging this comment for all you're worth. Perhaps it will give you something to do besides drinking some more BHO kool-aid........-
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vettenut7 months, 2 weeks ago
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No, Gransater, I don't look under my bed for all those things. That's where I keep my dictionary-- you know, the book that identifies correct spellings for words.
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Perhaps you should go buy one.
After all, words are not just "a figma (sic) of your imagination." They mean things, so it's good to be accurate in spelling them in your posts, It makes people think you just might have a clue about what you are writing.....-
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Gransater7 months, 2 weeks ago
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If spelling is the only thing you can come back with, I'd say that's pathetic.
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It would appear that you had no problems understanding what I was trying to convey to you.
I do have to say that keeping a dictionary under your bed, is a novel idea. I keep mine in a bookshelf, upstairs, along with other dictionaries from various countries. I'm more interested in conveying ideas, rather than being picture perfect in spelling, as long as the idea is conveyed. You are looking too hard at the message, and not so much at what it is telling you. Take your blindfold of, and you'll see a lot more of whats around you.
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djn3nunez37 months, 2 weeks ago
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Mind you, anti-abortion Democrats don't talk the same way as their Republican counterparts. At the Democrats for Life event, for instance, nobody contemplated an overturning of Roe v. Wade, let alone a ban on abortion. Instead, anti-abortion Democrats envisioned more near-term goals: reducing the number of abortions through education and adoption and providing assistance for mothers and children, with constitutional fights far out on the horizon.
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http://blog.cleveland.com/pdopinion/2008/09/antiab...-
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chevydog7 months, 2 weeks ago
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I think I've witnessed polarization personally. One side of my family (typical Repub small businessmen) had guys forced out of Repub county leadership positions by Reagan zealots. The other side (ethnic, blue collar, Catholics) had guys forced out of equivalent positions by the Dems because of their positions on abortion. Two different groups of people, two different adjacent counties (one in PA and one in NJ) ; same result. The statement that orthodoxy isn't required doesn't wash with me. For my money, I hope they both get poison ivy.
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Tangent0017 months, 2 weeks ago
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"When was the last time a prominent Dem spoke out against abortion?"
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From a statement from Democrats for Life:
"Importantly, we hope they will swell the ranks of our current pro-life members who are so dedicated to protecting pro-life issues in the Congress including Congressmen Altmire, Berry, Boren, Costello, Cuellar, Davis, Donnelly, Ellsworth, Holden, Kildee, Lipinski, Marshall, McIntyre, Melancon, Mollohan, Murtha, Oberstar, Ortiz, Peterson, Rahall, Skelton, Shuler, Stupak, Taylor and Wilson."
http://www.democratsforlife.org/index.php?option=c...-
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vettenut7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Tangent001:
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Please re-read my post, especially the sixth word, the one that begins with "p."
"Prominent."
Not just elected Democrats-- prominent ones. Like in my question, you know.......
Perhaps you want to re-post, listing the names of some "prominent" Democrats for Life..........-
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bigG7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Who decides what constitutes "prominent"? You? I'll bet many of those listed are considered prominent by someone other than you.
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Now, reach under your bed and open that dictionary - not just for spelling, but for the definitions contained therein. -
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Om7 months, 2 weeks ago
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It's interesting how certain apologists for the now-defunct Republican Party refer to all Democrats as leftists. Is it any wonder the party of No Way has marginalized itself out of existence when all of its spokespeople are trying to outdo each other with Chicken Little protestations. The ruse is up, the teflon has fallen off. Selfish myopia and naked greed has run its course. Fear and negativity will most certainly rear its ugly twin-head again, but under an entirely new banner.
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BB647 months, 2 weeks ago
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You're almost copying speeches made by Adolf Hitler in 1933 about the weaker parties that would soon be eliminated by his rewriting of the laws. With his control of the Reichstag, anything and everything was passed. Laws concerning opposing views were written. Habeas corpus ended. The the race laws, confiscation of weapons, forced abortions and so on were all passed with a single party plan. You claim to protect the rights of all. You claim to protect free speech but I've never seen your party defend the rights of those who disagree with them. How many members of Congress or White House are pro-life? How many support the Second Amendment? I'll bet you will find more members of the GOP who support your rights that you will find members of your party ready to defend mine. You defend and protect only those which mirror your party's line. For years you always called Bush a fascist only now to show your true colors.
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djn3nunez37 months, 2 weeks ago
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Of course I completely disagree with that analysis. I think the American voters recognized the "Nazification" of the former Republican party by the likes of Rove, Limbaugh and Hannity..... and voted them out. And IMHO will still be losing seats in both the House and the Senate in 2010, 2012 and beyond. They may well splinter, and frankly I think Ron Paul is the best of the lot.
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PapaWolf7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Man, bb. WHere to start...
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>>You're almost copying speeches made by Adolf Hitler in 1933 about the weaker parties that would soon be eliminated by his rewriting of the laws.
1st, it was ROVE who claimed the Repubs had a majority for the foreseeable future.
2nd, it was BUSH who signed signing statement after signing statement not to rewrite laws, but to claim his God-given right to IGNORE the very laws he signed if HE so chose.
>>Laws concerning opposing views were written.
It was the Bush admin that stifled the media & propagandized the US w/planted generals & retired military personnel to discuss Aghan & Iraq.
>>Habeas corpus ended.
Again, Bush - & for US CITIZENS!!!! Where was your outrage then?
>>The the race laws,
WHAT!?!?!? Didn't you notice the, how shall I say this??? lack of pigment at EVERY repub presidential primary & general election rally? Didn't you notice the extreme diversity at Obama, Hillary & every other Democratic presidential rally?
>>confiscation of weapons, forced abortions....
NO ONE is talking about confiscation of weapons. & NO ONE has EVER suggested forced abortions. I, personally, am AGAINST abortion, but I am Pro CHOICE!!!! Got that? Not pro-abortion but PRO-CHOICE. If you'd care to discuss it civilly w/out all the BS like in your post, I'll be glad to.
>>You claim to protect free speech but I've never seen your party defend the rights of those who disagree with them.
We have no problem w/free speech. Why do you have a problem w/us responding to the bile, hatred, vitriol, innuendos, lies & bigotry of people like Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter, Crowley, BillO, & others? Do YOU hate free speech so much that you don't want us to have that opportunity? How (to use the rabid right's own words) unamerican of you...
>> How many members of Congress or White House are pro-life?
See above. -
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PapaWolf7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Part II:
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>> How many support the Second Amendment?
We ALL support the 2nd amendment. It's the INTERPRETATION of it that has us at odds w/us.
My question to you - why is the 2nd amendment the only one the repubs cared about these past 8 years?
>>I'll bet you will find more members of the GOP who support your rights that you will find members of your party ready to defend mine. You defend and protect only those which mirror your party's line.
We have no problem w/you spouting your BS. What we have a problem w/is the incessant lies, twistings, & racism. Say whatever you want. But do NOT get upset when we call you on your lies & outright stooopid comments.
>>For years you always called Bush a fascist only now to show your true colors.
Dictionary.com: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
Sounds like Bush to me. Staged "town hall meetings", suppression of the media, setting up "Free Speech Zones", & blatant racism against blacks, arabs, persians, & anyone who looked arab / persian - not to mention bigotry against muslims.
Not to mention torture, outing a CIA operative, planting stories in the media, politicizing the justice dept, .....
Want me to keep going?
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BB647 months, 2 weeks ago
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You know it's funny that you're so sure the GOP is dead. It did take some hits. For the last 8 years, our president was attacked relentlessly by the media. We didn't defend them. We had talk radio but we really didn't stand up with him. I'm not a fan of Bush, but most of the things they said would not have been taken when FDR, Truman, Carter or Clinton were in office. You will see the GOP finally circling the wagons. You will see our "herd" being culled too. Rinos will continue to leave. Spector the Defector was a name given to him by the DNC when he left your party to join the GOP. Back then as now it was when it was helpful to his career. Party loyalty or his constituents means nothing to him.
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You will see Republicans with a clear message. Lower taxes, less government, reduced social welfare programs, strong defense, and enforced borders. Our HOPE is that there is something left in 2010. Our CHANGE is the address of our current president.-
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dunkirk7 months, 2 weeks ago
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"You will see Republicans with a clear message. Lower taxes, less government, reduced social welfare programs, strong defense, and enforced borders. Our HOPE is that there is something left in 2010."
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ROFLMAO, Bush legacy is astounding isnt it, to almost completly bring th emost powerful nation in the worlds economy to its knees. Yes we will see Repiugs with teh message of lower taxes, less govt (glad your aginst the gay marriage ban amendment since that would kinda represent MORE government) yatta yatta yatta all the things they always campaign on and then promptly forget about once you elect them. It seems the Republicans are the ones who love to shout long and loud about how inefficient government is and then when elected go about proving it.-
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BB647 months, 2 weeks ago
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Your name explains a lot, especially retreat and old tactics.
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History will look more favorably on Bush than you think. We were hit on 9-11 and lost an estimated 5 trillion dollars because of that single 2 hour attack. We recovered and did rather well for some time. For several years, people like Obama claimed deficits were terrible only to triple the debt in less than 3 weeks on a pork project that was little more than free money to every activist group out there. There has been no review of how our money has been spent nor any accounting on why it was spend other than the term stimulus. The deals have all been behind closed doors and when freedom of information requests submitted, been told it's a matter of national security.
Bush, while not the best speaker, wrote most of his own speeches. The man has a speech impediment. What's Obama's excuse? No teleprompter and he a blathering idiot. No, I think when Jimmy Carter Obama gets done with his 4 years, you will see a nation very much concerned with letting the grown ups back in power. I think the best example of Obama's leadership is the way he worked in the Senate. His district fell farther into poverty during his time in the Senate than before and continues to fall. Like his sanitized resume shows, he really has never had a real job and has no clue what to do. Other than read the teleprompter and do what he's told.-
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crespi7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Bush will NOT be looked upon favorably by history.
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He was the idiot son who the Skull and Bones heritage training of global manipulation didn't really stick (unlike Jeb) and instead listened to Corporate crony-criminal Cheney in one ear and spinner of anti-Democracy lies and and crimes Rove with the other.
History isn't going to like THAT at all...-
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BB647 months, 2 weeks ago
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Shut your sanctimonious mouth.... "Global manipulation"!!! You guys have and protect the likes of George Soros. Until you bring him to justice for his illegal currency manipulations you have nothing to say. If he were a Republican you'd be out there with torches and collecting firewood for burning him at the stake. And he's only the beginning. You should learn about your heroes before you talk. The majority of the Obama contributions did not come from the little people. They were the typical big money contributors of the DNC. Just like when they told you FDR or JFK were the "common" man. Yea right....
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crespi7 months, 2 weeks ago
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64BBs, or should I say OneBB rolling around in the boxcar as the old joke used to go-
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1) GEORGE W BUSH controlled the free world for the last eight years and his administration, FoxNews, and his rabid followers let us ALL hear about it every day.
2) I was responding to your ludicrous assertion that history will "look more favorably" on Bush when the declassified documents and testimonies coming out daily show just the opposite.
3) Not ONLY did your comment I was responding to NOT mention Soros, you have NO IDEA how I may feel about his actions.
4) And stupidest or most misinformed of all, George Bush DID NOT write "most of his own speeches." They were written by his chief speechwriter Michael Gerson and David Frum, and Marc Thiessen among others, as is WELL documented.
Unadulterated horsesh*t like this (and I DO mean HORSESH*T) that YOU and the other Neocon, ultraconservatives try to pass off as fact both here on propeller and in the national media is the reason 79% (quickly to be 80%) of the American public are happy to see your "movement" go down the crapper.
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dunkirk7 months, 2 weeks ago
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ROFLMAO, history will look favorably on Bush as more information comes out?? That has to be the best line I've heard considering as more and more information comes out it becomes very apparent that he's currently ranked too high. As more information comes out it becomes quite apparent that georgie boy SHOULD be held accountable and tried for crimes against humanity.
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His district? His district is the state of Illinois. And its falling behind? ROFLMAO. Do you ever deal in reality?
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djn3nunez37 months, 2 weeks ago
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I see you have you head firmly ......... in the sand.
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Any critic of the long awaited invasion and occupation of Iraq was a traitor who hated America and would love for the terrorist who hit us on 9-11 to win.
Were you in a coma during the Whitewater (aka as leave no pebble unturn so we can find some dirt to harrass President Clinton with) investigation?
The problem with the GOP(and DEM for that matter) is their words are not followed up on in the real world. -
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NoWayMan7 months, 2 weeks ago
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"You will see Republicans with a clear message. Lower taxes, less government, reduced social welfare programs, strong defense, and enforced borders."
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um, yeah. that's the exact same message we've been hearing for years.
problem is, the repubs simply don't deliver and the message is a lie.
and when we're talking about ideas, we're talking about NEW ideas.
does the GOP have any new ideas? or will you simply be regurgitating the same mantra of lies you 've been spoonfed all these years ?
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capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user8 Replies
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tadair9197 months, 2 weeks ago
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aside from the talking bobble-heads mentioned in this article, what was really so damaging to the party was the rights' unwavering commitment to go with whatever bush/cheney wanted.
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this we can all agree was a terrible mistake.
but, now it is the left that is making the same unwavering commitment to whatever absurd policy the banksters are pushing under the guise of liberalism. -
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AnteUp7 months, 2 weeks ago
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I heard Christopher Hayes of The Nation last night on Countdown.
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He said there are times when he just feels like saying,"Guys! -
it's only been 100 days........suck it up!" He went on to say
that he knows it is difficult to relinquish power - but they
did have that control for a very long time. I couldn't agree
more. The period of adjustment is WAY over.
We are in a world of hurt in this nation - on a multitude of
issues - you might think it would be time to roll up your
sleeves and get to work, but I see the entire GOP message
as one of rejecting the results of an election that took
place in a very FAIR manner in November!
They have undermined, insulted and obstructed to the best
of their ability.........I say GET TO WORK! You were hired
by your constituents to do the WORK of the country - DO IT! -
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cowboygrandpa7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Special interests will kill both parties !!!
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Ya know, I'm seeing this overwhelming hatred of the Republican Party, instead of a hatred of what they stand for.
Now I do not agree with everything the "modern GOP" stands for, in fact it sickens me that they have become so obtuse in their ideology.
But, they have some members who still want America to be America, true they are a small number. But instead of bashing them, we need to encourage them in helping to turn the party around. We need a two party system.
I gotta be honest with ya. I'm not real happy with everything Obama is doing. Just as I was not real happy with what GW was doing.
I'm considering becoming a no party person again.
I don't want this country to go to far to the right or left. Fredom is for all, or it is for none. -
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simonsez7 months, 2 weeks ago
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My new photo is the county breakdown of the 2008 Presidential election.
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60 million Americans said "no" to Obama and that number may be increasing. He is running roughshod over productive citizens and humongous spending on the part of this government.-
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NoWayMan7 months, 2 weeks ago
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"60 million Americans said "no" to Obama and that number may be increasing. He is running roughshod over productive citizens and humongous spending on the part of this government."
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um, 70 MILLION Americans said "yes" to Obama and that number may be increasing.
currently, his approval rating is higher than the pergentage of people who voted for him. -
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wtagg7 months, 2 weeks ago
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How many said yes?
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How many said no to Bush in 2000? Did those Americans have justifiable concerns of him running roughshod over productive citizens and humongous spending on the part of this government.
Both Bush and Obama are two peas in a pod. I do not understand why you felt comfortable with one and not the other. You should have been/be concerned with both.-
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wtagg7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Are you suggesting that they are less important? I bet McCain would have loved for some of that base.
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You expose an important issue with the republican base. It is a base of elitism. They need to appeal to everyone. That was something that Obama did much better than McCain. Even the clownish attempt with Joe the Plumber did not help, mainly due to the issue that the republicans (as the democrats) really have no understanding of the issues of the small businessperson.
I think true conservatism would appeal to a huge base in this country. The issue is that no party even approaches that level of common sense, not do they want it because it would erode into the power they enjoy. -
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PapaWolf7 months, 2 weeks ago
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>>Much of Obama's base was blacks, Mexicans and green college kids not yet having to earn their own way in life.
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Blacks? Can you blame them? Being virtually ignored by Repubs for, basically 40+ years, & 8 years of the Bush admin & Repub Congress doing everything they could to dismantle Affirmative Action (which also helped WHITE WOMEN & "disadvantaged" white men), Equal Opportunity (again helping white women), & ignoring little things like voting disenfranchisement, predatory lending practices, & discrepancies in sentencing, etc., etc., etc...
Mexicans (& other Latino groups)? Can you blame them either? Being demonized by the rabid right & blamed for basically every crime, disease & lost job in this country.
College kids??? When was the last time you had to put yourself through college? When did you have to decide if your parents could afford to put you through school or trying to find the funding? Starting w/Reagan's education & financial aid cuts, & ever-increasing college tuition, & continuing & further cut down the years by the Repubs, can you blame them? -
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Progressive7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Michael Steele isn't helping:
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/05/08/100-days... -
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jordan117 months, 2 weeks ago
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"For the lack of someone to lead it away from its baser impulses, the party of Eisenhower, Goldwater, Dirksen, Rockefeller and Taft has become the party of Limbaugh, Hannity, O’Reilly, Beck and Boortz.">>>>
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In other words, the party of ugly. -
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Icantwait7 months, 2 weeks ago
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My Fellow Americans: Should I say Scott4261 is a dreamer? Who gave him his information? Katy Cure it? The Republicans are better off without him. Just like the U.S.A. was better off with Benedict Arnold. The more of these wishy washy Senators leave the Republican Party the stronger it will become. Why? True Conservatives not the made up Moderate Conservatives. When the Real Conservatives are in office and following the rules of Progress as laid down in our Constitution and Bill of Rights the most productive our Country has been. Pretty obvious what happens and is happening now that a Liberal or should I say Radical is in Office. Obama is lying his tail off every time he turns around. Passing the buck off, onto his other flunkies, that he purposely help join up with his Merry Band of Bandits. Now, he fires the person responsible for the fly over New York City. He planned it, He ordered it, He denied he ever knew about it, He should have fired himself. I think we should press for a complete, unbias, investigation. We Know The Truth and the Truth is not in Obama. The Real American
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Icantwait7 months, 2 weeks ago
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My Fellow American? You may be a Realist but you're not an American. Americans take a stand and don't sit in the middle and wait for the Real Americans to do something. Sitting on the Fence won't stop this Communist movement led by the News Media Hyped Obama to go away. I know your type Not a Damocrat, Not a Republican, an Independent. We'll Independent of What? Get a Backbone and Stand up for what you think is best for this Country. When your head is being about to be carved off who are you going to look for then? We'll your beloved President won't be there to stop it or even care to stop it. Why? He only Cares to be in the Spotlight. You Know It and the Now Majority of Americans Know it. The Real American
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scott42617 months, 2 weeks ago
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Since Obama has been elected, I've taken to calling myself a Democrat again. Truth is, under Carter and Clinton the Democrats had become Republican-Lite.
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No, my friend, I'm NOT in the middle at all. According to all you rail against, I am an outspoken socialist (I'm not really, but if calling me one makes you feel better, then by all means....).
And BTW, part of what makes America great is the 1st Amendment of the Constitution. We are ALLOWED to disagree in this country. So for you to question MY patriotism is really laughable....
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PapaWolf7 months, 2 weeks ago
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I'm sorry, but this is just too idiotic to reply to. But I'll say 1 or 2 things:
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>>The more of these wishy washy Senators leave the Republican Party the stronger it will become. Why? True Conservatives not the made up Moderate Conservatives.
So much for that "Big Tent" lie you've all been telling us. & it will NOT be stronger, just smaller - AND more extremist.
>>laid down in our Constitution and Bill of Rights
From what I've seen over the past almost 30 years is that the only amendment in the BoR that you guys like is the 2nd - and ONLY the part about bearing arms.
>>Obama is lying his tail off
Where the HAYELL do you see him lying? Or is it more that you don't like what he says, so you call him a liar?
And, last (for now)
>>Passing the buck off,
You GOTTA be thinking about W who took responsibility for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!! Obama has done nothing but take responsibility for his mistakes. & , personally, until he's PROVEN to be a liar, not just called that by those who wish for his failure, then I tend to believe what he says - a HE!! of a lot more than W, who WAS proven to be a liar many times over.-
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bgamall7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hey Papa. Bush and the neocons are no different in many ways than the Dems, with their desire to feed taxpayer money to international banking parasites. And even the Dems are fighting for Daddy Bush's pipeline in Afghanistan.
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Still, empire building reached new and dangerous heights under the neocons. Even Pat Buchanan wrote against them. His view was that their provocation of Russia is irresponsible. Rove and Limbaugh are not true conservatives. They are swine. And no offense to pigs.
http://www.palinsuresucks.com-
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Icantwait7 months, 2 weeks ago
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My Fellow American: I'll say to you what I said to PapaWolf. I should be saying you are not even an American. To support someone who does not have the interest of this Country at heart is as Un-American as it gets. He is destine to destroy this Country and you stick you head in the sand and listen to all the News Media Hype promoting the behavior. What Lies? Obviously your either don't listen what he says, (no surprise), or you refuse to believe the, Now Majority, of America is saying. Tell me this is the Truth: Lower Taxes, Improve Relations with Foreign Nations, (Pantywaist President), Close the Borders, Improve Health Care, Eliminate Special Interest Groups, Eliminate Earmarks, Fix the Car Industry, Fix the Banking Situation, Create Jobs, Lower Unemployment, Fix the Foreclosure of Houses Problem, on and on and on. What a fraud and he is only making things worse. Not to mention Putting our Country down to all our Enemies with his Stupid Apologys. They should be Thanking us for all that we have done for them and the World. All the time Insulting our Foreign Friends. He is despicable and if you don't see that, You My Friend Are A Fool. The Real American
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PapaWolf7 months, 2 weeks ago
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1st, you call me your fellow American, then turn around & call me UN American.
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Then you accuse me of not listening & call me a fool.
THEN you list simple talking points & simply call them a fraud w/NO supporting evidence.
& FINALLY you claim that the world should be grateful for all we've done for them, to them or in spite of them.
Your powers of persuasion & skills in debate & argumentation are a bit lacking.
I HAVE been listening - ever since Nixon. Your simplistic statements, along w/your continued provarication - OBAMA NEVER APOLOGIZED - are ludicrous beyond belief.
If you were content w/a president who bankrupts his country, ignores the rule of law, tortures, attacks innocent countries, spends his term CONCENTRATING the wealth (as opposed to redistributing it) & attempting to consolidate power in his hands & a vociferous fringe group of religious fanatics, then feel free to move to a country more to your liking...
...say, North Korea.
For me, I'll take a president who's spent the 1st 100 days busting his butt around the world than the last one who spent most of his time on vacation at his ranch in TX.
So, 1 question - do you support these "Patriotic Americans' " calls for secession from the Union? REAL American of them, isn't it.
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Icantwait7 months, 2 weeks ago
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My Fellow American? Well I should say you are the typical Non-American. You don't have any powers of observation, you have never read the Constitution, you don't have a Patriotic bone in your body, and you're living in the Roosevelt era. You just don't listen to what the truth actually is and basically you don't care. We have a President that is sand bagging this Country. Anyone in the World that respects it's History proclaims that and to deny it as our President feels it is his obligation to do is a fool. A President that flies from Country to Country of our worse Historical Enemies and has Teleprompter Apology for our Country when they should have a Script of Thanks for all that we have done for them and the World is a Communist. What does he have for us? Higher Taxes, More Welfare for the Useless Layabouts, Pampering Illegal Aliens and handing out our American Benefits to them, Crucifying our Troops with this Phony Torture Business, Flying over New York City just to Scare it's People for a Laugh, and Telling Lie after Lie. Fix Health Care, Protect the Borders, Save the Car Companies, Improve our Image to Foreign Nations, Lower Taxes, Fix the Foreclosure Home Industry, Shut Down Interest Groups, on and on and on. You're a Fool. The Real American
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Icantwait7 months, 2 weeks ago
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My Fellow American: I should be saying you are not even an American. To support someone who does not have the interest of this Country at heart is as Un-American as it gets. He is destine to destroy this Country and you stick you head in the sand and listen to all the News Media Hype promoting the behavior. What Lies? Obviously your either don't listen what he says, (no surprise), or you refuse to believe the, Now Majority, of America is saying. Tell me this is the Truth: Lower Taxes, Improve Relations with Foreign Nations, (Pantywaist President), Close the Borders, Improve Health Care, Eliminate Special Interest Groups, Eliminate Earmarks, Fix the Car Industry, Fix the Banking Situation, Create Jobs, Lower Unemployment, Fix the Foreclosure of Houses Problem, on and on and on. What a fraud and he is only making things worse. Not to mention Putting our Country down to all our Enemies with his Stupid Apologys. They should be Thanking us for all that we have done for them and the World. All the time Insulting our Foreign Friends. He is despicable and if you don't see that, You My Friend Are A Fool. The Real American
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rally-monkeyComment removed: Abusive
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galletta61217 months, 2 weeks ago
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The Democratic party, its prowess renewed by a taste of success in 2006, is riding the crest of a political wave. It is the stupid party triumphant. What serious Democrats must now consider is whether to accept this state of affairs--or begin to think deeply enough to find a principled ground for rejecting a faction in their midst that is not only stupid but dangerous as well.
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TcarosComment removed: Hard Banned
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Icantwait7 months, 2 weeks ago
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My Fellow American: I should be saying you are not even an American. To support someone who does not have the interest of this Country at heart is as Un-American as it gets. He is destine to destroy this Country and you stick you head in the sand and listen to all the News Media Hype promoting the behavior. What Lies? Obviously your either don't listen what he says, (no surprise), or you refuse to believe the, Now Majority, of America is saying. Tell me this is the Truth: Lower Taxes, Improve Relations with Foreign Nations, (Pantywaist President), Close the Borders, Improve Health Care, Eliminate Special Interest Groups, Eliminate Earmarks, Fix the Car Industry, Fix the Banking Situation, Create Jobs, Lower Unemployment, Fix the Foreclosure of Houses Problem, on and on and on. What a fraud and he is only making things worse. Not to mention Putting our Country down to all our Enemies with his Stupid Apologys. They should be Thanking us for all that we have done for them and the World. All the time Insulting our Foreign Friends. He is despicable and if you don't see that, You My Friend Are A Fool. The Real American
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Icantwait7 months, 2 weeks ago
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My Fellow American? You may be a Realist but you're not an American. Americans take a stand and don't sit in the middle and wait for the Real Americans to do something. Sitting on the Fence won't stop this Communist movement led by the News Media Hyped Obama to go away. I know your type Not a Damocrat, Not a Republican, an Independent. We'll Independent of What? Get a Backbone and Stand up for what you think is best for this Country. When your head is being about to be carved off who are you going to look for then? We'll your beloved President won't be there to stop it or even care to stop it. Why? He only Cares to be in the Spotlight. You Know It and the Now Majority of Americans Know it. The Real American
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higgdj77 months, 2 weeks ago
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Pretty soon the "Big Tent" will be the size of a telephone booth!! Somebody push Rush, Hannity, Beck et al under the bus and start anew. NO ONE with any brains will sign on to the garbage they spout, anymore. My party is gone, it's now their party and I'm not welcome.
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