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Posted by: slate 7 months, 2 weeks ago
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slate7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Will13137 months, 2 weeks ago
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no problem from me..
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the current problem was caused by revealing it was being done... and trying to set policy statements on it.. setting up a paper trail..
while i certainly don't condone it...
some things belong in the back room so to speak.. .. to think we haven't from time to time.. would be naive...-
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Will13137 months, 2 weeks ago
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not wise to brag.. about doing something that by international law is illegal..
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but as stated... you would have to be totally naive to think it doesn't happen... not only the US. ... but most countries...
is it right NO.. is it done.. YES..
the memo's and other evidence... points to the fact it was made OPEN POLICY..
again.. not wise to tell everyone you're doing something most believe to be illegal... and then expect not to suffer any consequences...
and no it is NOTHING TO BRAG ABOUT... but the bragging is why we are even having this debate..-
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lfergie8127 months, 2 weeks ago
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Will1313, I agree with you that it was done but there is one distinction. As best as I can find, it had never before been done to military prisoners. From what I've read about torture by the CIA, it was used to harden our soldiers to resist torture in the event that they were captured but I would not be surprised that torture has been used by the CIA. For those interested here's one person's view how this torture got started under the Bush administration in Abu Ghraib.
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MCC409A.html -
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Will13137 months, 2 weeks ago
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just so there is absolutely no misunderstanding..
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I AM AGAINST TORTURE.. I BELIEVE THAT WITHOUT EXCEPTION IT IS A CRIME.. AND PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO THE FULLEST EXTENT OF BOTH DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL LAW...
EVERYONE WITHOUT EXCEPTION..-
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dissent7 months, 2 weeks ago
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thanks for clarifying that wil1313l. i was a little concerned that you seemed to shrug it off as par for the course just a little too easily. if we were all to do that then we have given torture and its practitioners a firm foothold on a claim to legitimacy. it should be condemned loudly, resolutely and consistently
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lfergie8127 months, 2 weeks ago
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Nice try slate but the laws on torture applies to captives of war. Clinton was not officially a president during time of war so unless you have proof that those captured in Bosnia were tortured under his orders, there's no basis for your statement.
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One has to wonder just who was running the country the last eight years. Bush or Cheney. Never in the history of our country has a vice president taken as much power as Cheney did.
"Early in the Bush administration, Cheney placed a group of allies throughout the government who advocated a robust and pre-emptive foreign policy, especially regarding Iraq. But a potential obstacle was Tenet, a holdover from the Clinton administration who had survived the transition by bypassing Cheney and creating a personal bond with the president."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/v...-
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dissent7 months, 2 weeks ago
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torture has been an endemic practice within our intelligence and military communities for decades. from the waterboarding of filipinos a hundred years ago to the school of the americas to the release of the cia torture manuals to abu ghraib. every president would have known, should have known and does know, and should take responsibility for it.
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what is striking is that we as a nation deny it, proclaim the opposite as a great virtue, claim that we are in full possession of it, and then proceed to lecture other nations about "human rights," "democracy" and "freedom" and that we are the "shining example" that they should follow.
this has been done and continues to be done not for the greater good of humanity but because it is a cynical manipulative device that better serves our self-interest. if we are giving another nation just such a serve it's because we want something from them. we want their subservience, their kowtowing and our greater control over them. this is one of the many means we have at our disposal to try and break them down in order to make them more agreeably pliant and malleable. but it is the hypocrisy of it that is most obvious if we ourselves are as guilty if not more so of what we accuse them of and try to lord over them.
heads of state all around the world have always known this. our hypocrisy rises at the same rate our credibility diminishes. they are inversely proportionate and are obviously related.
if the world knows it it's time we know it and wake up to it. the mirror is right in front of us. we can't keep looking away -
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kobzikov7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Clinton should have been prosecuted for war crimes, not for perjury.
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http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/International_Wa...
http://www.ornery.org/essays/2001-01-26-1.html
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