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Posted by: NoWayMan 7 months, 2 weeks ago
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hyperbola7 months, 2 weeks ago
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If the torturer is appointed by Bush, does that make it not torture?
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If the torturer is appointed by Obama, does that make it not torture?
Obama Appoints Torturer as Afghanistan Commander
As President Obama taps Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal to run the Afghan war, do these revelations, divulged to Esquire at great personal risk by an elite Army interrogator two and a half years ago, imply the new commander's aiding and abetting of torture?
....Garlasco works for Human Rights Watch, a group that started in 1978 to monitor the Soviet Union and recently expanded its mission to include America's war on terrorism. With a partner named John Sifton, in the past year he has helped expose the secrets of CIA prisons and extraordinary renditions and discovered Captain Ian Fishback, the decorated West Point graduate whose account to the Senate Armed Services Committee last fall pushed the Congress to pass a historic and politically charged amendment banning torture. Now Garlasco is chasing after a fresh story of prisoner abuse committed by members of the United States military. ...
...But at the very same time the Army was cleaning up Abu Ghraib under scrutiny, Jeff arrived at an elite secret interrogation facility near Baghdad where nudity and hooding and stress positions were still routine, where ranking officers knew exactly what was going on and promised to protect the interrogators at all costs.... This was Camp Nama, the home of Task Force 121, ...
...It was a point of pride that the Red Cross would never be allowed in the door, Jeff says. This is important because it defied the Geneva Conventions, which require that the Red Cross have access to military prisons. "Once, somebody brought it up with the colonel. 'Will they ever be allowed in here?' And he said absolutely not. He had this directly from General McChrystal and the Pentagon that there's no way that the Red Cross could get in — they won't have access and they never will. This facility was completely closed off to anybody investigating, even Army investigators."... Given Task Force 121's history, that was a remarkable promise. Formed in the summer of 2003, it quickly became notorious. By August the CIA had already ordered its officers to avoid Camp Nama....
.... This means that a full-bird colonel and all his support staff knew exactly what was going on at Camp Nama. "Do you know where the colonel was getting his orders from?" he asks.
Jeff answers quickly, perhaps a little defiantly. "I believe it was a two-star general. I believe his name was General McChrystal...
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/05/12/obama-ap...-
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Dionys7 months, 2 weeks ago
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"divulged to Esquire at great personal risk by an elite Army interrogator two and a half years ago, imply the new commander's aiding and abetting of torture?"
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As we've learned from the GOP there's a big difference between implication and fact.-
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hyperbola7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Well McChrystal was the commander in-line of the torture base and personnel of that same base have testified that he knew and did nothing about it, even after Abu Ghraib hit the fan. We should also remember that McChrystal was one of the biggest supporters of bushie's "mission accomplished" gig.
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.... McChrystal happens to also be one of the military generals who also fiercely advocated the declaration of “Mission Accomplished.” In April 2003, McChrystal assessed that “major combat” was over in Iraq:
“I would anticipate that the major combat engagements are over,” Maj. Gen. Stanley McChrystal told reporters at a Pentagon briefing. He said U.S. forces are moving into a phase of “smaller, albeit sharper fights.”
Just two weeks after McChrystal’s comments, President Bush strutted aboard the U.S.S. Lincoln and — beneath the “Mission Accomplished” banner — declared, “Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.”....
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/15/mcchrystal/
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NoWayMan7 months, 2 weeks ago
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"If the torturer is appointed by Bush, does that make it not torture?
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If the torturer is appointed by Obama, does that make it not torture?"
if, in either case, someone gets waterboarded, its torture. but to my knowledge, no one has been tortured under Obama.
and when all the torturing was going on, where did McChrystal get his orders from? (and no, I'm not comfortable with him in charge)
and who is Jeff? isn't quite clear. and Jeff isn't even clear about who gave what order. lots of hearsay.
NOW...
care to answer my first question or are you simply playing dodge ball?-
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tehranchik7 months, 2 weeks ago
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http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/05/12/stanley-...
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hyperbola7 months, 2 weeks ago
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""""...to my knowledge, no one has been tortured under Obama. """"
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Some of the secret blackholes without judicial oversight have been maintained and protected by the Obama administration. So, yes , technically you are right and it will still take some time to see whether torture has in fact been "banned" or simply been made more opaque. The precedent of the Obama administration defending the need for secret blackholes is not promising.
Obama's Mixed Message on Torture Policy
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/07-14
Let me accompany that with a question to you. It is more than clear that a number of people reported that McChrystal knew about torture at Camp Nama and not only did nothing to stop it, but in fact tried to prevent knowledge of what was going on from becoming public, even after Abu Ghraib (after all he was pretty much a direct conduit for passing information to Rumsfeld). It is also clear that McChrystal was involved in the Pat Tillman cover up (in fact, the Army investigators recommended punishment for that - the Pentagon ignored that).
A suitable person for Obama to appoint as commander in Afghanistan?-
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NoWayMan7 months, 2 weeks ago
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LIKE I SAID...
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I'm not comfortable with obama's choice. and many other people aren't as well. Pat tillman's father being one of them. and I've already let Obama know it.
SO THERE!!!!!!!
NOW...
more dodgeball or are you gonna answer the question?
or should we just cue the crickets....
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