Questions of the Week - Why don’t the Democrats dump Pelosi? Update:“If it was a crime, she was part of it” »
Posted By pc25 5 months, 3 weeks ago in NewsAnyway. The true beauty of this fiasco is that it’ s only because the left is so absurdly, radically absolutist on this subject that Pelosi’ s in any trouble at all. All she’ d need from them in order to be free and clear of this mess is an acknowledgment that, yes, it’ s perfectly understandable that her top priority in the year after 9/11 was protecting the country from another attack by any means necessary. She meant well but, in her zealousness, took a step that shouldn’ t have been taken. If they said that, she could cop to having okayed waterboarding, issue the obligatory “ I was blind but now I see” apology, and the uproar would be over. But progressives could never be that rational about this subject, so she’ s left to twist in the wind and deny everything in order to flatter their sanctimony. Delightful.
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pc255 months, 3 weeks ago
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it's starting to blow up big time in the face of the Democrats...
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If Pelosi is smart she will not get into a fight with the CIA....she will loose that one
the vermin are starting to cover for each other.......
Matthews: Sometimes, you gotta torture
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/05/14/matthews-som...-
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stephen-johnson5 months, 3 weeks ago
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"If Pelosi is smart she will not get into a fight with the CIA."
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She isn't smart, because she already has gotten it on with the CIA.
Look for a stream of carefully placed leaks by the CIA about Pelosi's knowledge from now until she gets booted from the Speakership of the House. -
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GWHayduke5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Sooo, you have one person from the Democratic party with knowledge of waterboarding, and its blowing up in their face?
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Odd logic.
When you have a President, VP, Sec of State, Sec of Defense all authorizing and or approving of torturing people who may or may not be guilty of crimes and you want to point the finger at someone with 'knowledge" of the act and pretend that THIS is the crime?
Is this 15th century Spain?
Naw, just another pc25 article pulled from the depths of an extreme right wing blog.
BTW, I propped the story on its premise, but found the rationalization to be typical false partisan hackery.
Must have been a high school term paper that found its way to hotair. -
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mesodude5 months, 3 weeks ago
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what I particularly love about this scandal is that Propeller cons here are so transparent in their moral relativism. It's like you don't care *whether* it's right or wrong--only that *if* it's wrong, the GOP doesn't take the blame (even though it was Republicans who stood in virtual lockstep with Bush ALL the way and blocked any and all investigations throughout his 8 years in office). This will not turn out well for the GOP no matter what. It's gonna be really catastrophic for you cons next year. Mark my words. This time in 2011, you'll be sobbing and wailing louder and planning more teabag parties. Mark my words. ;-P
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epiphannyy5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Republicans need to be careful here. On one hand, you're saying that waterboarding isn't torture and that the Bush administration did nothing wrong with regards to how they treated prisoners in their care. Then on the other hand, you're trying to tie Pelosi with the torture that went on during the Bush administration, holding her accountable for what she knew and signed off on.
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You can't have it both ways. If it wasn't torture when you're looking at culpability within the republican ranks, then it can't be torture when you're looking at a democrat. And the opposite is also true.......if it was torture and she signed off on it, she is accountable just like the Bush administration should be.
The difference is.......I don't see democrats justifying torture regardless of who may or may not be implicated. It's our stance that EVERYONE who took part and authorized torture should be held accountable for it. Will you republicans say the same? Or are you still sticking with the "waterboarding isn't torture" defense when its a republican involved??? -
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donald515 months, 3 weeks ago
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PC, all you un-American pukes have just distorted what the CIA has said to accuse Pelosi... just to cover the war crimes of Dumya and Cheney - and she is fighting back, and you pukes will see the truth someday...even if you won't accept it in your deluded, Un-American, zealously religious world!
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pc255 months, 3 weeks ago
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http://hotair.com/archives/2009/05/14/lieberman-ci...
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Lieberman: CIA tells me the truth
Senator Joe Lieberman doesn’t quite call Speaker Nancy Pelosi a lying sack, but he comes pretty close. When asked by Norah O’Donnell whether the “CIA misleads [Congress] all the time,” as Pelosi alleged today in her press conference, Lieberman laughs out loud (via Weekly Standard): -
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nostalgia5 months, 3 weeks ago
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How to Get Ahead in Politics
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Throw your boss under the bus:
Interrogation Probe Should Include What Pelosi Knew, Hoyer Says
House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer said Tuesday that investigations into the Bush administration’s use of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques on terrorism suspects should look into what congressional leaders, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi, knew about the methods that have been criticized as torture....
“Frankly, information about what was said, when it was said, who said it, that ought to be on the record so the American public knows,” Hoyer said.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/0...
Hoyer is now backing off of that statement publicly but you can bet there is a great deal of activity going on among Democrats in the House
Also can Obama be pleased that this controversy is diverting attention away from his agenda?-
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vor5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Obama would like nothing more than to be rid of Pelosi. Alot of Democrats feel this way. She simply has not distinguished herself in her current position. She has ignored acrimony in favor of animosity. She has undermined Obama numerous times. This certainly has nothing to do with her being a woman, it has to do with her competance.
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Unfortunately Washington does not work based on performance, it's all about seniority and empire building. And somehow Pelosi has been very successful at building her own. The layers that insulate her will have to be peeled away carefully. Perhaps Hoyer's words signify a start. This isn't just a Democratic problem. The Repub's have their own issue even with their minority status. Boehner is just as much a primadonna as Pelosi. And just as embarassing a public face. And just as determined to hold his position.
It is little wonder the public has little confidence in Congress. The system is broken. We end up with virtual incompetents rising to the top. I have seen the inner workings of a political machine and it is a strange business sometimes with the unlikeliest of candidates emerging. One reason I consider Obama such an anomaly. Seldom do the brightest get through.
In Pelosi's case what is the likelihood that her Bay Area district in anyway represents the broad interests of America? Interests that most Americans can relate to? But they are the constituents who keep her in power and will for a long time if she is not toppled. As a Democrat I cannot consider this a good thing for the future of the party. -
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beavith15 months, 3 weeks ago
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Hoyer= weasel.
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this is going to get good.
the democrats will immolate themselves in victory while the republicans have immolated themselves in defeat.
maybe... just maybe... both parties will come out of this stronger and more focussed.
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antibrainwasher5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Hate to spoil your whankfest, but whether or not Pelosi was briefed of not about Cheney ordering Waterboarding to torture prisoners, does not change the fact that Cheney broke every law on the books to try and prove a link between Iraq and 911, which was a neocon zionist big oil war profiteering murdering treasonous LIE.
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You coward cons are just setting up some distraction again, another strawman(woman) to foam and bark at, like cowards do.
Your messaih Cheney is a traitor and a murdering chickenhawk coward, who commited war crimes, tortured and sent 5000 americans to their DEATH to invade Iraq, all so his cronies could profit, and Israel could murder 500,000 muslims without spilling a drop of God's chosen DNA.
And listen to you brainless lockstepping swiftboating thugs, spewing your faux noise propanda.
If Pelosi tortured, then she should be prosecuted, morons. And as long as your coward Messaih Chickenhawk Traitor Cheney is spewing forth in front of cameras as the defacto leader of the Repugs, it makes his and your demise more certain.-
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Loudnproud5 months, 3 weeks ago
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"If Pelosi tortured, then she should be prosecuted... then your intelligence shows..." next time leave the moron out of it. It makes your argument more substantive without it, and drives your point on Pelosi, instead of drawing attention to the fact that you think anyone who disagrees with you is a moron... Sorry, just my opinion on pointless name calling.
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Next, I would say, if she truly did know about it, and it is deemed to be illegal, she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, just like Cheney, Bush, and any other republican/democrat that knew, and did nothing. And really, how could she not know. I have been reading this site for years, and everyone here seemed to know. But, I am pretty sure Washington would be a very desolate place if we held our politicians to the same standards that our average citizens are held to. -
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donald515 months, 3 weeks ago
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Accurate comment there , anti!
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Keep the truth flowing and America can purge itself of the last 8 years of vile behavior!
War crime convictions is the first best step to tell the world we are still the shinning democracy on the hill and we can win the "ideological war" as Dumya called it, where he gavve away the higher moral ground!
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PsychoHosebeastComment removed: Spammer, Abusive
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skyking2p5 months, 3 weeks ago
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antibrainwasher is right as usual The tugs that started this whole torture thing are desperate to change the subject. If what happened as you say "isn't torture" why are the cons jumping all over Nancy Pelosi?
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If it is torture and if she had anything to do with the policy or helped to implement it then she should be held accountable too. If she was told about it and was she required by law to say something about it and she didn't she should be held accountable. If she was told about it and could not say anything about it, what could she do ??
smokescreen-
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slate5 months, 3 weeks ago
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antibrainwasher is right as usual The tugs that started this whole torture thing are desperate to change the subject. If what happened as you say "isn't torture" why are the cons jumping all over Nancy Pelosi?
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Change the subject? YOUR side wanted the 'truth' commission, now that it looks like it's pointing back in your direction as well it's a diversion? Well the truth means just that and we want the whole truth don't we?
I mean even if we find out that we need to jail 6-8 DNC Senators Pelosi (or any other high ranking Dem along with Bush in the process right?
I personally don't want a 'half truth' commission, run by people that knew this was happening and did not lift one finger to stop it and then want to use it to destroy political opponents. -
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slate5 months, 3 weeks ago
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"If Pelosi is smart she will not get into a fight with the CIA."
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She already did when she said they lied to 'them', which would mean they 'broke the law'.
Shudder, I wonder how well she slept last night, knowing that now the CIA has no choice but to prove her wrong with as much muster as that agency can muster.
I'd love to hear the phone call from f-bomb Rham that you know is on the way.
Yes a 'truth' commission would be nice Nancy, but will it be headed by 'truthful' individuals and in a truthful way.
This topic was supposed to be their coup de gras that was supposed to kill the GOP. Now it is starting to unravel around them and they too will be hurt politically in a major way.
Obama got on board to give those that voted for him 'something' on the most 'important' topics in their minds; get Bush now that they are in complete power. On a side note, I'm glad he came to his senses on the Photo issue.
Those that voted for them tried unsuccessfully for 4 years to have Bush Impeached, and since that failed they wanted him and his guys tossed in prison for war crimes. Yeah buddy that will ensure that we will never see another era of GOPs in power, Viva La Revolution!
The DNC and their supporters miscalculated another way. They 'assumed' that the GOP would just sit quietly and 'take their medicine', and allow the kangaroo court proceed and have those that knew what was going on be their accusers and judges.
Ah they want the 'truth'? Well that's what Cheney has given them and now the folks on the left will have to admit that their party isn't the bastion of goodness they try to pretend they are, as they vilify the GOP.
Have you also noticed that these people that say they want the 'truth' have been saying lately for Cheney to 'shut up', now that he has managed to turn on the spot light and illuminate the Hyenas from left, that were feeding on the carcass of the decaying Bush Legacy and turned this into a bi-partisan thing?
This thing has began the unintended and the forewarned harm to the country.
It was bad what the GOP did to Clinton, and the DNC trying to get revenge now is bad.
But what now? The left demands action on this hot bed issue. Will Pelosi fall from grace now that she has snatched victory from the left?
Will the left see Obama as 'tainted' now because he decided not to put out the 'photos' and it appears the DNC has decided they don't have a solution of what to do with the Detainees at Gitmo?-
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Will13135 months, 3 weeks ago
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what you for get.. is now Obama's boy is head of the CIA.. lower operatives.. will say EXACTLY what the current director tells them they can say.. when it comes to testimony.. and you can bet that "evidence" the CIA wants at the trials.. will be available.. the rest will be manufactured or destroyed.. as the case may be..
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hefaa1Comment removed: Hard Banned
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GWHayduke5 months, 3 weeks ago
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I propped this stinking story merely on its premise, which I believe to be largely correct.
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Most of the editorial content is patent partisan nonsense, completely ignoring critical elements of its backward argument.
But alas, we have come to expect no less.
This is 'moderate' by pc25 standards. -
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coolslow5 months, 3 weeks ago
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I laughed until I cried while watching the Pelosi press conference. Minority whip, senior member of Intelligence Committe, Speaker of the House, can't get what she knew and when she knew it straight. Nancy is such a joke, but the best part was the press. Very funny. Now that they smell blood in the water, they perked up a bit, snapped out of their trance over this Administration, and will be outcompeting each other to see who can bring down the Speaker of the House. They have become a joke too, but maybe they can get some dignity back.
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Truth Commission or not, the dike has burst: all this will come out. That's good, no further harm can be done to to the intelligence community, no more classied info can be given away, so what the hell? Let's get this all out. Start with the 9/11 footage so we get the context, the panic, the brave firemen, go on to the UN Resolutions the House and Senate Iraq votes, the CIA briefings, Gitmo, Abu Grai. Let's see where everyone stood and what they had to say.
A lot of Dems would like that. Frank and Dodd will have the attention turned away from them on banking and finance, Rangel will never get before the ethics committee. Burris and Franken?? They are out of the news. The Obama's deficit will increase beyond four times last year's deficit, no one will notice and he can continue to run the private sector. Might be good for the Dems.
Best f-ing comedy going. Its all a sad commentary for the long run, but you gotta admit, in the short run, it is hilarious. They want to investigate the last Administration. HAHAHAHAHAHA. They want to punish the last Administration: HAHAHAHAHAHA. What a bunch of knuckleheads. Talk about sore "winners" and hubris bringing them down. Let's not forget the classic favorite word: hypocrites. Wait until the economy turns, they'll all be capitalists again too. HAHAHAHAHA -
ProgressiveComment removed: Spam
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Progressive5 months, 3 weeks ago
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Answer of the day:
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http://www.caglecartoons.com/images/preview/%7B2d4... -
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned
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NoWayMan5 months, 3 weeks ago
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what does everyone think nancy did wrong? is she merely lying or is she guilty of a crime?
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whatever pelosi knew was told to her by the white house.
that is where all arrows point to in this mess and where all roads lead.
if nancy is guilty, then bush, cheney, rummy, etc are all very guilty since they were the guys conceiving and implementing all the things pelosi supposedly knew about.
do you all get this?-
sonofreasonComment removed: Hard Banned5 Replies
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antibrainwasher5 months, 3 weeks ago
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So, you cons hate Pelosi. Therefore, this justifies Cheney ordering torture to produce false evidence that 911 = Iraq.
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Pelosi may or may not have been briefed on the torture, but the other senator, Graham, is saying the same thing, they were on the same committee, so all your frothing and whanking is the usual con crap.
Of course, you cons cant read anything not written by the right wing nuts press, but there is a very detailed account of Graham backing Pelosi's statement 100%.
What a bunch of sophist swiftboating cowards. Cheney tortured, broke every law, and murdered 5000 americans for nothing but a neocon lie, so what do you coward traitors do, you attack Pelosi.
Freaking bunch of psycho loosers, no integrety, no intelligence, no morals, just lockstepping seig heiling swiftboating con cowards.-
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antibrainwasher5 months, 3 weeks ago
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And of course, you still don't get the point, the torture was ordered to justify the invasion of IRAQ, you incredible idiots.
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You freaking imbeciles cannot fathom what traitorous syncophants you are, backing Cheney with complete suspension of disbelief.
That's what repug means, the suspension of disbelief, the suspension of all rationality in a display of compete subjection to the bleeding cyst of your messaih. Freaking cowards.
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bubba25 months, 3 weeks ago
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Pelosi is apparently lying and trying to cover her tracks.
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I've been unhappy with Pelosi since about March 2007. I never agreed with her being the Speaker of the House.
But, it is total bullsh!t to claim that Pelosi is "part of a crime".
The "crime" that some of you WANT to associate Pelosi with was committed by BUSH and the REPUBLICANS.
Bush and Cheney made the policy and got the administration lawyers to write up a bunch of memos to opine that torture was 'legal'.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0506/p99s01-duts.htm...
NONE of the Democrats had ANY 'say' in that policy - NONE.
Whether any Democrats knew about it is one thing, but Bush and his administration did what THEY wanted to and didn't ask for or listen to ANYTHING any Democrats had to say about it.
The Bush administration willfully violated federal law and the Constitution. Regardless of what any Democrats knew when, they could do NOTHING about it because the Republicans controlled Congress and wouldn't allow any real investigations to occur.
And before someone says it .... the Dems has very little power in 2007 and 2008.
The Dems BARELY had a majority in the Senate. The House majority was not nearly enough for any veto overrides even when enough votes would pass a proposed bill.
The Republicans used the Filibuster OVER 70 TIMES in TWO years to BLOCK most anything the Democrats tried to do.
For any bills that did get to Bush's desk, he ALL OF A SUDDEN remembered what a Veto was and used it frequently.
THAT is WHY Democrats couldn't "do anything" about much of anything. -
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icono15 months, 3 weeks ago
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Where is the promised honesty, the transparency, the sharing of responsibility, the bipartisan equality of a new way of doing business at the Govt level......
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But as F. Nietzsche said about such things in his work "Beyond Good and Evil";
"The criminal is often enough not equal to his deed: he extenuates and maligns it."
and
"The advocates of a criminal are seldom artists enough to turn the beautiful terribleness of the deed to the advantage of the doer."
From what I've seen and heard Pelosi is getting in deeper and deeper trouble especially with the CIA(Cherry picking 'facts' against the CIA is always a dangerous and stupid game to play for any DC politician..); this is definitely not what the DNC wants. This whole affair, as I understand it, was supposed to make the Bush admin look bad, which is not a hard trick to pull off, but this is making the Dems looks bad instead.
Business as usual in DC; change you can believe in.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!... -
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donald515 months, 3 weeks ago
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former, wake up you right wing sycophant and un-American!
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We just heard yesterday that Cheney had a fourth waterboarded to get him to admit Sadam to Al Qaeda links, and he was an Iraqi national !!!! More to come!
How many of the 109 detainees who died in US custody were waterboarded and will never be able to tell us?
Torture at Gitmo alone has created an all new generation of fanatical religious zealots who hate us!
Thanks for your lack of scruples or even the indication of a real conscience!
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donald515 months, 3 weeks ago
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The cons trashed Kofi for calling Dumya a "war criminal", trashed Joe Wilson on the yellowcake lie (exposed his CIA wife too), trashed the Dixie Chicks, trashed the French for refuting the Bush lies at the UN, trashed Tom Dashle for standing up to Dumya... just typical, low-life, repug procedure!
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