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Posted by: smithichie 7 months, 2 weeks ago
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smithichie7 months, 2 weeks ago
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You are correct D, it is also worth pointing out the majority if not all of the Jim Crow laws were inacted using the The Curse Of Ham as not only a just cause, but a divine creed.
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And while most of the mentions about slavery occur in the OT, as you also point out, they can also be found in the NT. You quote one of my favorites, where slaves are to serve their masters as they would christ or god.
Gee, doesn't that go directly against a couple of commandments? Or maybe it's a strong indication of the authorship of most of these tales?-
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Mutainia7 months, 2 weeks ago
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You won't get any arguement out of me that the Bible seems to allow for slavery. However, the Quran takes it further by allowing a slave master to have sex with married women who are his slaves. And, guess what? The Quran is believed in AND followed by nearly two billion people who DON'T think the Quran is like those passages in the Bible that were for a certain time period. They believe the Quran is relevant for TODAY. Meaning? Slavery and having sex with married women who are your slaves is STILL permitted!
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smithichie7 months, 2 weeks ago
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I don't see where the Koran takes it any steps futher. The Bible clearly states that slaves are not only property and subject to the whims of their master, they are also to treat their masters like they would as they were god themselves. Who's going to argue if 'god' wants some nookie? It certainly wasn't the place of the slave to say no, according to the Bible.
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AND, I guess I missed the part where it says slaves or any treatment of them is not STILL permitted, according to the Bible. It's not the Bible that doesn't allow for slaves or their treatment today, it's our society.-
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Mutainia7 months, 2 weeks ago
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Again, I KNOW the Bible allows for slavery. The Quran, on the other hand, allows the Muhammadan slave master to have sex (rape) of married women "whom their right hand posesses" (Quran 4:24). And, on TOP of it, the Quran doesn't have dispensations where a part of it is to be followed or not followed (Christians can now eat shell fish and pork if they want). It sounds like Quran 9:1-5 and 29 are supposed to go into effect when Muhammadans are strong in number to the point where they can turn on pagans (and Christians), that they have a peace treaty with.
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memestryker7 months, 2 weeks ago
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If you believe in a supernatural deity, then you may believe "God" actively "chose". But that's just part of one ancient culture's folklore, as far as I've been able to discern from my own research. And Jesus never stopped being a Jew. If anything, he taught the Jewish people how to be better Jews.
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"Christians" today seem to mostly be Paulists. And I don't think a sentient being "chose" how the line of David would play out. I think that there is energy and various natural forces and that the interaction of those forces resulted in what plays out in human history.
It makes as much sense to believe a supernatural "God" guided a rapist-warlord to define the line of Jesus for the Roman Catholics and guide the hands that wrote their scripture, as for that same "God" also to guide a child-molester/warlord to write the Koran.-
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Mutainia7 months, 2 weeks ago
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"It makes as much sense to say "God" guided a rapist-warlord to become the line of Jesus, then what's to say that "God" didn't also guide a child-molester/warlord to write the Koran?"
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Mut: Ultimately, I believe God is behind the Quran. God said, "For there must be also heresies among you (I Cor. 11:19), " so, it seems to me, that God created Satan to put together the Quran FOR such a reality-
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memestryker7 months, 1 week ago
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Your quote is way off, M. I'd cut and paste, myself.
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But the Quran, like the Christian Bible, is just a book, written by humans who "claim" to be divinely guided. Both books document cultural traditions and their folklore. If it works for you to "believe" in these writings as fact, then that's your choice.
I think "God" and "Satan" both are metaphors, and not actual sentient beings.
I'm concerned about anyone who literally believes any ancient cultural doctrine. I think they have been convinced through fear, intimidation, or simple hypnotic suggestion that these writings are factual. And people are gullible. All of us. We adopt practices that seem to simplify our lives or give us answers to the mysterious and don't question them.
I think a Christian theocracy would be just as destructive as an Islamic one. In fact, we only have to look back at the Middle Ages to see evidence of this. Some people have blind faith, and others prey on that blind faith to manipulate them into forwarding an agenda.-
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Mutainia6 months, 4 weeks ago
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Meme: Your quote is way off, M. I'd cut and paste, myself.
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Mut: Okdoke.
Meme: But the Quran, like the Christian Bible, is just a book, written by humans who "claim" to be divinely guided.
Mut: Some beg to differ.
Meme: Both books document cultural traditions and their folklore. If it works for you to "believe" in these writings as fact, then that's your choice.
Mut: True. But, what if one tells me to kill you to make my god happy?
Meme: I think "God" and "Satan" both are metaphors, and not actual sentient beings.
Mut: Ok.
Meme: I'm concerned about anyone who literally believes any ancient cultural doctrine.
Mut: Ok.
Meme: I think they have been convinced through fear, intimidation, or simple hypnotic suggestion that these writings are factual.
Mut: Right, I agree.
Meme: And people are gullible. All of us. We adopt practices that seem to simplify our lives or give us answers to the mysterious and don't question them.
Mut: That's for sure.
Meme: I think a Christian theocracy would be just as destructive as an Islamic one.
Mut: How so? What scriptures can you find, other than those that look down on a gay life-style, will make Christianity make you pay twice in tax as a Christian, or, else?
Meme: In fact, we only have to look back at the Middle Ages to see evidence of this. Some people have blind faith, and others prey on that blind faith to manipulate them into forwarding an agenda.
Mut: Right.-
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memestryker6 months, 3 weeks ago
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"Meme: Both books document cultural traditions and their folklore. If it works for you to "believe" in these writings as fact, then that's your choice.
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Mut: True. But, what if one tells me to kill you to make my god happy?"
Meme: That's why I'm a strong supporter of the second amendment and the right to keep and bear arms--including concealed, so I have a reasonable chance of protecting myself from you (and vice versa).
"Meme: I think a Christian theocracy would be just as destructive as an Islamic one.
Mut: How so? What scriptures can you find, other than those that look down on a gay life-style, will make Christianity make you pay twice in tax as a Christian, or, else?"
Yes, you're right. And both the Bible and Koran have people "hear God" tell them to kill those not of the faith. Read Leviticus and Numbers. Jesus supposedly came along with a "new covenant" instead of the one with the petulant, overly emotional, mean-spirited "God" of the O.T. Both have "godly" men advocating everything from murder, to torture, to rape. We know that wasn't pleasant for those murdered, tortured, or raped, and Jesus would agree with us and say they all were wrong.
"Meme: In fact, we only have to look back at the Middle Ages to see evidence of this. Some people have blind faith, and others prey on that blind faith to manipulate them into forwarding an agenda.
Mut: Right."
The above also answers the previous question to some extent. It's all in the interpretation. I've known ministers who told their followers they could only read the King James Version--where King James' translators asked for mercy in presenting their interpretation.
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smithichie7 months, 2 weeks ago
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And, on TOP of it, the Quran doesn't have dispensations where a part of it is to be followed or not followed (Christians can now eat shell fish and pork if they want).
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What dispensations? Throw out the Old Testament if you wish, but there are still passages in the New Testament telling slaves to serve their master like they would god himself. How is a slave supposed to say no to a master/god who wants sex?
I guess I just don't see how in your pointing out the stink found in other folk's religions, that you don't sense the smells coming from your own. You talk about how Muslims spin and twist themselves to avoid facing ugly passages, yet don't seem to notice your own twists and turns when you are faced with the same.-
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smithichie7 months, 2 weeks ago
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I agree. There is little to no difference between religions, "whatever". In fact I consider Christianity and Islam to be sects of Judism, with no more difference is to be found between Catholics and Baptists or Mormon or Sunnis and Shiites.
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smithichie7 months, 1 week ago
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Sunni, Methodist, SnakeHandler, Hasidic Jew, Mormon, David Koreshian, Unitarian, Catholic, Shiite, etc, all can find far more common elements and outright exact same characters and commandements then can be found in Hinduism or Ancient Greece.
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