Cheney's speech ignored some inconvenient truths »
Posted By Progressive 5 months, 2 weeks ago in Political News
WASHINGTON - Former Vice President Dick Cheney's defense Thursday of the Bush administration's policies for interrogating suspected terrorists contained omissions, exaggerations and misstatements.
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There are only two kinds of people who are really fascinating: people who know absolutely everything, and people who know absolutely nothing. -- Oscar Wilde
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Newperson5 months, 2 weeks ago
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In his address to the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative policy organization in Washington, Cheney said that the techniques the Bush administration approved, including waterboarding — simulated drowning that's considered a form of torture — forced nakedness and sleep deprivation, were "legal" and produced information that "prevented the violent death of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of innocent people."
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I would like to here some of this information that "prevented the violent death of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of innocent people."
Has anyone else heard of such information?-
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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FTA:
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He quoted the Director of National Intelligence, Adm. Dennis Blair, as saying that the information gave U.S. officials a "deeper understanding of the al Qaida organization that was attacking this country."
In a statement April 21, however, Blair said the information "was valuable in some instances" but that "there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means. The bottom line is that these techniques hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."
A top-secret 2004 CIA inspector general's investigation found no conclusive proof that information gained from aggressive interrogations helped thwart any "specific imminent attacks," according to one of four top-secret Bush-era memos that the Justice Department released last month.
FBI Director Robert Mueller told Vanity Fair magazine in December that he didn't think that the techniques disrupted any attacks. -
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hyperbola5 months, 2 weeks ago
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It was telling that Cheney's speech was given in an israel-firster nest like AEI and that his host was an ultra-zionist like William Kristol. Seems only the ultra-zionists still think Cheney has propaganda value. Perhaps we should start thinking of Cheney as a traitor to America and not just as a traitor to American democracy.
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AIPAC Ramps Up War Propaganda for Americans
The Israel lobby is aiming to soften up US public opinion for an attack on Iran. Americans should resist its propaganda.
...Israel is in the midst of a massive diplomatic, political and intelligence campaign, both public and covert, that could lead – if those officials behind it have their way – towards a military strike on Iran. It is a war for the hearts and minds of Americans. Or you might call it the war before the war. In intelligence circles, this Israeli project is known as perception management and defined by the department of defence as:
Actions to convey and/or deny information … to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives and objective reasoning as well as to intelligence systems and leaders … ultimately resulting in foreign behaviours and official actions favourable to [US] objectives. In various ways, perception management combines truth projection, operations security, cover and deception and psychological operations.
The Israelis are following the template of the Bush administration's run-up to the Iraq war. First, the US government advocated half-hearted efforts at diplomatic engagement. Then it ratcheted up pressure through sanctions and UN resolutions. That is where the Israeli campaign stands now....
Within the US Israel exploits a willing circle of Likudist advocacy groups and thinktanks – such as the Washington Institute for Near East Peace, the Israel Project, the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs as well as Aipac itself – that are closely scripted and co-ordinate their political message with Israeli diplomats. While some of these groups deny such a close affiliation, there is proof of scripting and amplification of the Israeli government's agenda....
We in the US must be prepared to resist. We must protect ourselves from Israel's propaganda offensive ginning up war with Iran. We must encourage President Obama to stay strong in his commitment to Israeli-Arab peace, whether or not Israel is a willing partner. Keeping our eyes on the prize of peace is going to be the hardest challenge of all, because the Netanyahu government is doing everything it can to divert the world's attention.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/05/18/aipac-ra... -
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hyperbola5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Well, we do have some comments about the efficacy of Cheney ideology from US military personnel.
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Military Srongly Opposed Bush/Cheney Torture Program
The Senate report shows that there was strong opposition to the Bush administration and justice department lawyers -- from the military, which argued that the behavior it purported to justify was illegal. The administration squashed that debate and eventually spread the illegal interrogation tactics from Guantanamo to Afghanistan, Iraq and secret prisons scattered around the globe.
The idea that torture is illegal, unethical and ineffective is well established in military circles. When elements of the military saw the interrogation plan being crafted by the White House, serious objections were raised. Those objections will be key to any prosecutions because they demonstrate that the White House should have been aware that what they were proposing was against the law. The architects of the torture program, however, seem aware of the power of those dissenting views and, according to the Senate report, repeatedly denied receiving them....
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/23/military... -
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hyperbola5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Torture? It probably killed more Americans than 9/11
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The use of torture by the US has proved so counter-productive that it may have led to the death of as many US soldiers as civilians killed in 9/11, says the leader of a crack US interrogation team in Iraq.
"The reason why foreign fighters joined al-Qa'ida in Iraq was overwhelmingly because of abuses at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib and not Islamic ideology," says Major Matthew Alexander, who personally conducted 300 interrogations of prisoners in Iraq. ...
Major Alexander's attitude to torture by the US is a combination of moral outrage and professional contempt. "It plays into the hands of al-Qa'ida in Iraq because it shows us up as hypocrites when we talk about human rights," he says. An eloquent and highly intelligent man with experience as a criminal investigator within the US military, he says that torture is ineffective, as well as counter-productive. "People will only tell you the minimum to make the pain stop," he says. "They might tell you the location of a house used by insurgents but not that it is booby-trapped."
In his compelling book How to Break a Terrorist, Major Alexander explains that prisoners subjected to abuse usually clam up, say nothing, or provide misleading information. In an interview he was particularly dismissive of the "ticking bomb" argument often used in the justification of torture. This supposes that there is a bomb timed to explode on a bus or in the street which will kill many civilians. The authorities hold a prisoner who knows where the bomb is. Should they not torture him to find out in time where the bomb is before it explodes?
Major Alexander says he faced the "ticking time bomb" every day in Iraq because "we held people who knew about future suicide bombings". Leaving aside the moral arguments, he says torture simply does not work. "It hardens their resolve. They shut up." He points out that the FBI uses normal methods of interrogation to build up trust even when they are investigating a kidnapping and time is of the essence. He would do the same, he says, "even if my mother was on a bus" with a hypothetical ticking bomb on board. It is quite untrue to imagine that torture is the fastest way of obtaining information, he says....
In the aftermath of his experience in Iraq, which he left at the end of 2006, Major Alexander came to believe that the battle against the US using torture was more important than the war in Iraq. ... His overall message is that the American people do not have to make a choice between torture and terror.
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/04/26/torture-... -
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hyperbola5 months, 2 weeks ago
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And it becomes ever clearer that the only reason the Gimto monument to the colossal incompetence of the Bush administration still hasn't closed is the political embarrassment and/or that bushie zioncons still think "gitmo propaganda" suckers americans.
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Military attorney: Waterboarding is ‘tip of the iceberg’
A military attorney who represented a now-freed Guantanamo detainee told CNN on Wednesday that waterboarding is only “the tip of the iceberg”
Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Yvonne Bradley was the lawyer for Binyam Mohamed, an Ethiopian national who was arrested by the Pakistani government in April 2002 on suspicion of being a member of al Qaeda. He was then shuffled through a series of CIA “ghost prisons” before being imprisoned at Guantanamo for five years. Last winter, President Obama ordered him released to the United Kingdom, where he had been a legal resident.
Bradley told CNN that when she was first assigned to represent Mohamed, she did not question he was a hardened terrorist, because “my government was saying these were the worst of the worst.” However, she now says, “There’s no reliable evidence that Mr. Mohamed was going to do anything to the United States.”
According to Bradley, when Mohamed was first held at a CIA prison in Morocco, “They started this monthly treatment where they would come in with a scalpel or a razor type of instrument and they would slash his genitals, just with small cuts.”
Following that torture, Mohamed confessed that he had attended an al Qaeda training camp and discussed plans to make a dirty bomb. He also answered “No” to the question, “While in U.S. military custody have you been treated in any way that you would consider abusive?”
Now Bradley believes, “This has nothing to do about national security, it has to do with national embarrassment.”
In February, when Mohamed was still being held at Guantanamo, she wrote an opinion piece for the Guardian saying, “It is worth bearing in mind that all charges against Binyam have been dropped and that Binyam’s chief prosecutor resigned, citing the unfairness of the system. I profoundly hope that he is not being kept in Guantánamo to avoid information surrounding his rendition and torture coming out.”
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/05/20/worse-than-... -
capecoralMComment removed: Retracted by user
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Poulenc5 months, 2 weeks ago
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More self-justifying bull excrement from Mr. Cheney, who will not, apparently, disappear until he's driven the final nail into the GOP coffin currently on national display.
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Let us hope that the media does its bit and refuses to provide a forum for Mr. Cheney as if he were providing a legitimate alternative POV to that of President Obama.
Cheney may indeed be the Antichrist, but, deity knows, not to O. -
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Cheney’s world today is still the world of September 11, 2001, a world where hijacked planes are screaming toward their targets, chaos reigns, and anything goes. It’s a world where civil liberties are endangered, laws are overlooked, and the enemy, for all we know, is truly at the gate. Cheney simply hasn’t moved beyond that mode into the realm of the present. That’s why he cannot accept that the decisions he and others made in the long shadows of that day—water-boarding, indefinite detention, Gitmo, and so on— were short-sighted and even, in some cases, counter-productive.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/05/22/courtwatch...-
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hyperbola5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Cheney's world is still the zioncon world. However, he did manage to say one true thing while addressing the ultra-zionists at AEI.
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Cheney says US Support of Zionism Causes Terror
If we hear in the coming days that former Vice President Dick Cheney has fired one of his speechwriters — or perhaps grounded Lynne or Liz — it will be clear why. Oozing out of the sleazy speech he gave Thursday at the American Enterprise Institute was an inadvertent truth regarding the Israeli albatross hanging around the neck of U.S. policy in the Middle East... our support for Israel… — these are the true sources of resentment…”
Cheney is not alone. In the “Recommendations” section of its final report, the 9/11 Commission suggested:
“America’s policy choices have consequences. Right or wrong, it is simply a fact that American policy regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and American actions in Iraq are dominant staples of popular commentary across the Arab and Muslim world. … Neither Israel nor the new Iraq will be safer if worldwide Islamist terrorism grows stronger.” (pp 376-377)
These observations seemed to strike my radio interlocutors as unfit for the airwaves. When the shouts of protest died down, there was an opportunity to offer additional evidence, so I threw in what a prestigious board appointed by the Pentagon had to say about all this over four years ago.
Are you ready for a scoop that is not a scoop, but that almost no one knows about?
It has to do with an unclassified study published, not by some “liberal” think-tank, but by the Pentagon-appointed U.S. Defense Science Board just two months after the 9/11 Commission Report. That report directly contradicted what Cheney and President Bush had been saying about “why they hate us,” letting the elephant out of the bag and into the room, so to speak:
“Muslims do not ‘hate our freedom,’ but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf States. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy.”
...Wading through the drivel in the FCM’s Times and Washington Post on Friday morning, I am hardly surprised that they missed Cheney’s slip about U.S. policy toward Israel being one of the terrorists’ “true sources of resentment.”
Ray McGovern was an Army officer and CIA analyst for almost 30 years
http://www.propeller.com/story/2009/05/22/cheney-s...
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Global_WarmerComment removed: Abusive13 Replies
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SpadecallerComment removed: Spam
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reallypsst5 months, 2 weeks ago
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CHAM5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Hyper you forgot to inform your readers that William Kristol is/was one of the high potentates in the Neo-Con organization Project for a New American Century (PNAC) that openly advocated causing mayhem in the Middle East to stir up wars.
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Made plans to invade Iraq ( plus six other Mid East Countries)in the early 90's according Retired General Wesley Clark.
He is a staunch Conservative Republican. He is also on the Board of AIE. -
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jsmith32445 months, 2 weeks ago
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Dick Cheney......."Water Boarding is not torture."
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His daughter......"Water Boarding is not torture."
George W. Bush.....Silent! He's a born against Christian and knows better. Probably a very good and decent man who trusted his Daddy's henchmen who had other axes to grind....I hope so.
At the conclusion of WWII, the United States of America went to trial against Kenji Doihara, Koki Hirota, Seishiro Itagaki, Heitaro Kimura, Iwane Matsui, Akira Muto and Hideki Tojo and all were executed for Water Boarding American Servicemen who were prisoners of war.
How much more of this absurdity are the American People expected to tolerate. Under the W Administration, for whatever reasons they might choose to present, the United States of America Tortured and Water Boarded. The individuals responsible for authorizing that Torture, that Water Boarding, were George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.
Who was the 'Decision Maker' and who assumes the responsibility for the actions taken under their authorization!
Without honor, dignity, integrity or accountability, this Republican Party distinguishes itself for a new definition of 'SHAME'.
The foul 'buck' stops there! -
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Icantwait5 months, 2 weeks ago
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My Fellow Americans: Yes, Vanity Fair is where I get my top secret news from these days. I hear it hurt our image around the world? Who really cares what others think of us, what are we a bunch of High School Girls? Ooooh no one likes us, Booo Hooo. Once and for All it was not Torture, So Stated by The Legal Definition. The Sissy Definition is shouting, slapping, washing faces considered as Mommy Torture. Yeh, the Cheney speech was given in Israel, probably should have been given in Iran, after it was leveled by Israels Bombs. Abuses at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib are you kidding? The prisoners never had it so good. Great food, a bath more than their normal, never, clean clothes, television, simply living like Kings. Yes, that's right more of the enemy joined the war because they wanted to become prisoners and experience this new life style. Finally, the only thing Cheney did do was tell the truth. If you think Obama is telling the truth what does that say about your ignorance. Ironically, you people Fear Cheney, yet, you don't fear the very same individual that is destroying your Historical way of Life. That's right Obama! The Real American
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Poulenc5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Icantwait, perhaps a protracted stay at Gitmo as a prisoner is in order. Send us a postcard, if you're allowed to use your hands--or if they still work.
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Why do people like yourself view human compassion--and the wish to remain on the moral highground--as weakness? What kind of an upbringing did you have? An abusive one, I'll wager, since you want to keep the pain going. -
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Tom Ridge, the former head of homeland security, voiced disagreement with Cheney a day after he attacked Obama's performance as the new commander-in-chief.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090522/pl_afp/usjust... -
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Cheney is also hunting a book deal:
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http://www.newser.com/story/59908/cheney-hunts-boo... -
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Progressive5 months, 2 weeks ago
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Arguing against Obama's policies, Cheney says that the Bush administration's approach to terrorism spared 'perhaps hundreds of thousands.' Experts say no evidence of that has emerged.
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-... -
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truthfirst5 months, 2 weeks ago
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SandmonsterComment removed: Hard Banned1 Reply
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wesxauto5 months, 2 weeks ago
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All of this is stupid about moving these nuts from one place to another thinking it will solve any problems. Our democrats always come up with ways to self distruct on meaningless things and realy all the repubs and indep. have to do is sit around and wait.
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Dave595 months, 2 weeks ago
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Relevant to the story okay. How about the large inconvenient truth that Bush/Cheney had actionable intelligence that aircraft would possibly be used in suicide attacks on major targets? That's pretty inconvenient when you consider the report came out in September of 1999. Apparently they never bothered to worry about it until we got hit. Just what was Cheney doing during that first seven months in office? And why would a man considered to be an expert in National Security seemingly ignore reports of possible terrorist activity? Maybe his location was undisclosed even to himself.
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CHAM5 months, 2 weeks ago
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For Icantwait. ICW Found those you seem to admire. Took place in Vietnam.
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ICW might be heard to bellow: "My fellow Americans: Here are my type of "Real Americans" at work"
Per U S Soldiers at that massacre:
An order was given to push all the Vietnamese who had been forced into the area into a ditch. A soldier later recounted:
"I began shooting them all. I guess I shot maybe 20 or 25 people in the ditch...men, women, and children. And babies." A baby crawling away from the ditch was grabbed and thrown back into the ditch and shot."
All over the village, platoons of U.S. soldiers were committing similar atrocities. The huts that the villagers lived in and their crops were burned, their livestock killed. Some of the dead were mutilated by having "C Company" carved into their chests; some were disemboweled. Women were raped. One GI would later say,
"You didn't have to look for people to kill, they were just there. I cut their throats, cut off their hands, cut out their tongues, and scalped them. I did it. A lot of people were doing it and I just followed."
As soon as you get yourself cleaned up Mr Icantwait from the result of your joy, I tell you this behavior is despicable.
And this all took place because the Army Generals and President Lyndon Johnson wanted to "pacify"
that area of Vietnam. And ICW, this might even put you on a higher high, there wasn't anyone but old men, women, and children in the village. They offered no resistance.
ICW it seems this is your heroes. Shame on you.
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